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To fail them all their days?
As police investigate allegations of bullying at a top independent school, Ben Locker and William Dornan argue that public schools are snobbish anachronisms that do not equip pupils for the modern world
I want you, sir,” a prospective parent asked Dr William Haig Brown, the great Victorian headmaster of Charterhouse, “to assure me that the boys who come to your school are the sons of gentlemen.” The doctor, who had a keen eye for business, replied: “Well, they always leave gentlemen.”
Update the language a little, and tone down the snobbery, and you still capture the sales pitch of today’s public schools. Although they now prefer to stress their modern caring side, there’s still a seductive appeal in the idea of letting an ancient institution mould a child’s character.
With fees of up to £25,000 a year, parents expect a public school to give their children not just academic and career success, but manners, discipline, respect for others and self-confidence. However, the reality is often quite different. Because the ethos of many schools has changed little since the days when society needed a made-to-measure elite, they frequently turn out pupils with a weirdly anachronistic view of the world.
This is hardly surprising when obeisance to long-established customs remains de rigueur at most establishments. The cook at Westminster still tosses a pancake reinforced with horsehair over a high bar every Shrove Tuesday. Similarly, only pupils in their senior year at King’s School, Canterbury are allowed to walk across the Green Court, the central lawn, while less exalted mortals must walk round the edge.
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Then there are the uniforms. Uppingham wears mostly black, supposedly to mourn Queen Victoria, while Eton still laments George III’s demise and insists on tailcoats, high collars and strict hierarchical rules on the wearing of waistcoats. Christ’s Hospital manages to surpass both with its Tudor costume of long blue coat, knee breeches, yellow socks and bands at the neck.
Such an environment has always encouraged pupils to develop their own customs, including rigid hierarchies and, historically, torture of the weak. From reports as recently as last weekend little would appear to have changed: a leading independent school is under police investigation over allegations that younger pupils were restrained in a chair and forced to watch internet images of torture, murder and child pornography.
Elsewhere, the Commission for Social Care Inspection has reported “birthday beatings” and “dorm raids” at Bedford School; younger pupils at Lancing College suffering an undefined practice called “bundling” or “the gauntlet” and being locked in the “room of doom”; and children at Giggleswick being subjected to “mattress flipping”, in which they were hurled off their mattresses, often on to various solid objects.
Schools take a dim view of this, of course, but given that boarders are together 24/7 it’s hard to see how such bullying can ever be eradicated. From our own school days we remember illicit initiation ceremonies (feet tied to scalding pipes or being locked in trunks, for instance), routine kicks and punches aimed at insubordinate juniors and — of course — the ethos of not telling tales. Group loyalty can be a laudable quality, but when you witness an enraged teacher hurling a ball full pelt into a child’s face, and no one dares say anything, you do wonder if it is the greatest virtue.
Some parents, though, draw comfort from the fact that, in a changing world, where old hierarchies and certainties are crumbling, public schools are havens of tradition that offer their children shelter not only from many awkward realities, but also those sections of society they deem undesirable.
Eventually, though, their children will finish their schooldays and will have to learn to rub along with different people and (sometimes) members of the opposite sex. They might do what we did and attend a university like St Andrews, where a strong public school ethos and a small undergraduate community provide a sort of social decompression chamber in which they can become acclimatised to the rest of the world. Or they can simply carry on as before and use the type of charming, understated ruthlessness which is the best way to thrive in many schools to backstab their way to the top positions in politics, business or the law, where they will find many old friends.
We gladly risk our words coming back to haunt us in 12 years or so by saying that we do have, or would have, higher aspirations for our children. Apart from anything else, we know from experience that a public school education does not even guarantee courtesy and good manners in a pupil.
Both of us went to schools where theft was more common than either establishment would like to admit (and often hushed up too) and where there was a strong atmosphere of denigrating social “inferiors”. At Uppingham it was normal to refer to all townspeople as “skivs” (derived from “skivvy”). Stamford boys were keener on persecuting “plebs” or spitting at passers-by from the school bridge.
But even if we could be convinced that public school pupils today avoid this (and the yobbish behaviour of many public schoolboys in Cornish resorts each summer doesn’t help to do so), nothing would induce us to expose a child to an environment that still endows many with a pathetic and self-limiting form of status anxiety. It’s easy to get a good flavour of this simply by looking online. For instance, on some of the more popular social networking sites, you’ll find groups such as “The Public School Society” or “I Went to a Proper British Boarding School”.
Many of the comments are hilarious, if Pooterish in their status anxiety: “Clayesmore School should be counted, you all should know it, an Only Fools and Horses episode was filmed there” — or quite beyond parody: “You inferior lot are all very amusing, but I’m afraid it has to be MALVERN GIRLS’ COLLEGE . . . we have the virgins, the sluts, the lesbians and the 9pm bedtime . . .”
Nor are these attitudes confined to the children. Many parents believe that the social cachet is vitally important. It’s for this market that Tatler produces an annual guide to 175 “top” schools, including tips that social climbers find handy. In 2005, for instance, readers were warned that Uppingham was “not particularly grand . . . parents tend to be bankers or BMW estate-driving lawyers”. Anyone put off by this is more likely to warm to Marlborough College where — an almost unbeatable inducement this — one can “look out for Fergie on the touchline as Princess Eugenie works up a royal sweat”.
Of course, any parent who chooses a school because it educates a brace of royals is a snob of the worst sort. But there’s a practical side too: they are paying for the chance to mix with those people themselves. Speech day at many public schools is a highly coveted networking opportunity.
Luckily for busy social climbers, it’s now much easier to send sons and daughters to the same school. One of the biggest changes in recent years has been the move to introduce girls at many formerly single-sex establishments. Although this has gone some way towards dispelling the stereotype of the public schoolboy who is utterly unable to relate to women on any level, there are still many examples to suggest that developing a mature and healthy attitude towards the opposite sex is proving tricky, especially where the boys heavily outnumber the girls. In the words of one girl who was sent to Uppingham, it’s all too easy to feel like a “lone banana in a cage of monkeys”.
Many mixed schools insist on the “six-inch rule”, which forbids male and female pupils from ever getting within that distance of each other. Notwithstanding that no one has ever devised a satisfactory way of enforcing it (“But Sir, we were actually seven inches apart, it’s just the angle that made it look like five”), it’s symptomatic of a system that easily takes fright at the proximity of the two sexes.
Nor does this enforced restraint breed a courtly ambience. We have heard of schools where boys have been known to hold up score cards to “welcome” female newcomers with marks out of ten for attractiveness. And this is the thin end of the wedge: in the past few weeks two sixth-formers at Rugby have been expelled for having sex on the pitch where the game was supposedly invented. Yet the romance of this palls when compared with the antics of two young gentlemen at Wellington College in 2003, one of whom filmed the other having sex with his girlfriend (she was unaware of the camera) and then showed the film to their friends in the common room.
Nonetheless, increasing numbers of parents are adamant that a public school education will provide a boost in later life. Academically, this has some merit — schools such as St Paul’s, Westminster, and Winchester see over 90 per cent of their students’ GCSE papers marked between grades A* and B. But at others the benefits are less clear. Over the past couple of years at establishments such as Ellesmere fewer than 50 per cent of their pupils’ papers were marked at these higher grades. Similarly, recent research indicates that pupils at top schools are winning more places to Oxford than they did in 2001, but so are more pupils from state schools. The losers, presumably, are candidates from mid-ranking public schools.
To us it seems unthinking to argue that today’s public schools automatically provide children with the best start in life. For one thing, anyone who can afford the fees could easily buy a house in the catchment area for a good state school where their children would learn to engage with a wide range of people from different backgrounds and emerge with a more realistic, and well-balanced, view of the world.
This, surely, provides a better all-round, character-building education than a public-school one, which often breeds some of the finest neuroses money can buy.
Of course, this practice is hardly fair either, but that’s a problem for politicians and society. No reasonable person is going to try to stop a parent seeking the best education for their child. But no reasonable parent should seek to insulate their child from that society within the artificial and archaic bubbles that are Britain’s public schools.
Ben Locker and William Dornan (with Jonathan Owens) wrote Swinesend: Britain’s Greatest Public School, out now (Atlantic Books, £8.99).www.crappublicschools.org
State v public school: is one better than the other? Post your comments below
I send my daughters to a small independent girls school. I was fortunate in attending a state girls school myself and I am a great believer in the benefits girls schools bring (evidenced in the strong academic results) and gives them self esteem. I am now one of the few female directors in an international corporation and guess what? most other female directors also attended girls schools. Sadly state girls schools are few and far between and hence I pay. The message is there are many reasons parents spend the money - it is not just about status there is so much more to it.
Helen , North Yorkshire ,
I feel obliged to mention with some distaste at the apparant ridiculing of the heirarchical system that is apparant in most public schools; I think you will discover that not only does this heirarchy go on in private schools, it is also prominent in state schools. In addition to this, having respect for your elders, and in fact others, is a common attribute for public school children, and the reason for this is the hierarchical (or as you put it, 'archaic') system. Besides, when you get out of this so called bubble, and get a job, you then have to look up to or answer to your boss. In my opinion, the perfect way to enter the business world!
Oh, and having old traditions isn't such a terrible thing anyway, do you propose we abolish the Oxford/Cambridge boat race, or knock down Big Ben in order to replace it with another monstrosity such as the gerkin, or the inside out lloyds building?
phil wickers, London, England
Dear Sirs,
I find your article to be directed against only a certain sort of Public School, that is, the 'Minor Public School'. I agree with you entirely that there is little reason to frequent one of these institutions as those who frequent them are often little more than snobbish state school children and often far more vile. However, the top schools are excellent academically and must be valued for this, furthermore, their students are often charming and bullying/drugs/drinking have all been eradicated.
I am not sure where I stand on the 'neuroses'/'real world' issue. I think some people live in an 'anachronistic bubble' and others don't. I am also sure that queer people who cannot cope are churned out by the State system, but we never really hear of them. However, consider the loneliness of the Burger King girl who never went to university. Is this the 'real world' that we should live in? Having only experienced one of the two systems, I cannot say which is the best.
Nick, Harrow-on-the-Hill, UK
I am dissapointed at some of the coments above made by people that went to public school. They seem to be proving your point. I was privately educated my whole childhood, however it was co educaional and saw very little of the bullying you describe. I am happy with my education and have never thought of it as better than anyone elses its not a thought that ever crossed my mind. I am now in my third year at university and so far my private education has not hindered me in anyway. I live with the opposite sex and i have never had any problem interacting with them.
I have to conclude from this that maybe there are alot of bad eggs in the public school system. The fact they are independant though surely means you cannot possibly judge all of them in the same 2000 words.
robin, manchester, uk
I've been going to public boarding schools since I was eight. I am still at one now, and I will be at one when I am 17. The things that are listed in the article above have been made out to be some sort of crime. Admittedly, forcing people to look at photos of murder is sick and wrong, but mattress flipping is completely normal, no one is singled out, everyone will have it done in their time at a private school. Birthday Beats aren't a complete thrashing, just a banter filled play fight. Its normal and it helps people establish relationships and just have fun. I personally don't see the problem of 6th form privaleges, no matter how trivial they may seem as it always means so much when you finally have them. There is no hierarchy, people respect their elders, which is surely good practice for later on in life. We aren't taught to be snobs, just normal people leading normal lives. Theres too much worry nowadays about bullying and a firm line needs to be established between bullying & fun
Alex Walton, Oakham, Rutland
I went to a paragon of independent day schools, years before I arrived they'd ditched the nuns and the boarding houses, so half my classmates were local pupils who might well have been in state schools, but were on bursaries. I left two years ago, but even as my year grew up (the last of the assisted place pupils, which dear TB decided was a poor use of public money) we saw our school become a social-climbing mechanism.
Ceremonies, grander buildings and less of a focus on bursaries and pure excellence mean my school has dropped dramatically in the ratings. But the fees have trebled, and the school's reputation has swelled.
There is so much MONEY in this market, and it all flows in the direction of status anxiety and our country's antiquated class issues. My parents would have been happier- and richer- with me at a grammar school, but there wasn't one in our area. And, as a girl in my year told me, in the state system I would have been 'ripped to shreds'.
Bea, Oxford,
I find it laughable that many of the commenters who went to public schools and are defending them are unwittingly supporting the arguments of the article. First of all, several of them have failed to read the article properly: it is quite clear that the authors went to public schools, and have drawn some of their conclusions from their own experiences. Secondly, some of the comments are very snobbish and show no awareness or understanding of what most state school educated teenagers are like. Not a bubble world, then, but adequate preparation for the big, scary world?
Jessica, London,
state skools are just as limited. at a boarding school there will be lots of interntaional ppl etc and ppl from all over the country. it is the ppl i know who have never left their village who are narrow minded/stuck up and poor ppl are generally invertedly snobbish. personally i went to a lovely village state primary and then an international skool in bangkok and then boarded for sixth form at a skool in cheltenham, which i found to be a lil strict and archaic but had the most rad ppl.
emma, norwich, england
The article is laughable. The author mouths off at public schools, and fails to offer any balance in the answer.
I am in my final year at Barnard Castle School, and have to say i will miss it. It has given me an appreciation of many things i may not have otherwise encountered. For example, my great passion is rugby, a key sport at my school. However, I had never even touched a rugby ball till i went to a public school, due to its lack of popularity in state schools. It also helps at my fathers is in the army, as otherwise I would be moving to new schools every two years, so boarding school was the best option. I wouldnt trade the experience for anything.
However i will concede that it not the right course for everyone. And that bullying will occur, and that they are eliteist in places. But not much. Ask yourself this. The central arguement is whether people should be able to pay for a better education. If not, then do you agree with Private hospitals and other private services?
Michael White, Great Lumley, UK
If you had actually been to boarding school then you would realise how incredibly misguided and unrepresentative your comments are. Dorm raids, whilst you make them sound like brutal affairs involving armed police very early in the morning, are in fact harmless fun. Similarly, birthday beats and bundles are far from the ceremonious torture you describe.
Furthermore, the bullying doesn't come into it, why?.. because bullying happens in day schools just as much as boarding schools, as well as in the workplace. For the amount of time kids at boarding school spend together (ie 24/7) compared to day schools, remarkably little bullying actually goes on.
One final lesson that boarding school teaches kids is the stiff upper lip. If you are on the losing team, shake hands with them and have match tea afterwards, rather than blaiming the pitch, referee or some other externality. I think your comments are centered around the politics of envy and your prejudices built up at St. Andrews.
Robert Webber, Edinburgh,
I think it laughable that you can even begin to find faults with the public school system. Sex in public schools or thousands of teen pregnancies in state? Small amounts of bullying in public schools or stabbings, violent beatings or happy slapping in state? Who ever can say that state schools are better for children is ridiculous. Which type of child would you like to see running the country in the future? The disgusting teenagers that roam the streets or sit outside McDonalds, intimidating people in their cheap clothes mugging, graffitying, living off benefits. Then look at public school pupils, some loud and brash, yes, but most grow out of that, generally polite, well turned out with a point to make and decent exam results. There's your answer.
Harriet, London,
Do i detect an ounce of jealousy here, or is it just chippiness on the part of the authors. A sad attempt at plugging thier book to all the Times readers who didn't have the chance to be part of the great British institution that is boarding school.
James Butler, Sherborne, UK
I am currently a 6th form pupil at a leading public school and couldn't disagree more with the exaggerated rubbish written in this article. Any issues of bullying are treated very seriously because pastoral care is a major factor in the boarding house system. I have been subjected to and involved in so called 'dorm raids' and 'matress flipping', throughout my five years. Never at the time did i feel victimised or bullied. It was simply part of boarding life that i thoroughly enjoyed and believe developed me as a person.
Had the state school system succeeded in reversing the growing trend in antisocial behaviour pupils at my school would not be mugged, beaten and abused every weekend simply for being educated privately.
Finally Pete Smith's naive comment that sugests public schools have a 'blase attitude to drugs' is unfounded. Parents entrust the care of their children to the school which takes this responsibility very seriously, enforcing a zero tolerance policy on drug use.
Henry Crone, Oundle,
I was in boarding school as a full time boarder from the age of seven to the age of sixteen. Although it was not all peaches and cream, it was the best time in my life. The only difference that I see between a state school and a public one is the class sizes and cost. I was always a larger girl, and I found I was bullied when I was in a state school, even though it was only for a year, but bullying wasn't something I worried about at boarding school. I'm not saying everyone got on all the time, but serious bullying and 'initiations' Never happened. The education isn't necessarily any different, but the amount of self-esteem it gave me was short of amazing, and it has made me the confident, independant woman I am today. Stereotypical views of anykind are always misleading. I went to a school that was full of children from all different countries and races. I learnt to intergrate with 'normal' people, just like I would have done in a state school. May not be better but they're no worse.
Rose, Hayes, Middlesex, UK
Went to Public School, Loved every second. It is a boutique for schooling and who doesn't want to shop the boutiques? Basically, having public schools around gives both parents and children choice, taking that away is a step backwards and ensuring theat they make the right one is a step in the right direction. At the end of the day - parents who have experience with a public school will give their opinion on whether they made a good choice or not and that is what is to be learnt from in order to choose a school which offers the right mix of social networking, academic work and enjoyment. At the end of the day - the student can always say no after experiencing it!
Charles Goldwait, Saundersfoot, Wales
I am outraged by the prejudice against independant schools.
I am in year nine of a boarding school and I think there is no difference from the way boarding school pupils behave to any State school. A majority of my friends go to state schools and there is no steriotypical difference whatsoever.
It seems that people feel that it is politicaly correct to think that boarding school pupils are snobs but it would be vulgar for a boarding school pupil to insult someone from a state school.
Edith Hancock, Barnston, England
I attended an all girls boarding school, but came home at weekends and had many friends from different schools and did all the normal things teenagers do; had boyfriends, went out, had a part time job. Now that I have left school I feel I have very low self-esteem and inferiority complexes, but not due to my school experiences, due to the attitude I now experience from the majority of people, who have very strong, sterotypical, bad views about people who attended public schools, which are not based on fact but on what people perceive public schools to be like. People are always very suprised when I tell them I went to boarding school because I am so "normal". But I no longer tell anyone because as an adult I am bullied and made to feel like a freak about it. It is ridiculous if this country continues sterotyping and pigeon holeing people to extent that they have to lie about their education in adult life!
Does it really matter what type of school people go to?
Anon, Birmingham, Midlands
Dear Sir,
When my parents wanted me to go to a private school I refused.
But sadly, most parents who value an acceptable education have no real choice.
Everyone knows, 'stateschools just don't have money'. So for example in my History class there is one book for every four pupils and we don't even have a regular teacher ! To make things worse, masses of talents are wasted because of a lack of support from stateschools.
Though simple investments such as books, working heating- and lighting-systems and more teaching staff would certainly persuade many parents to send their children to stateschools.
Additionally the style of exams needs to be changed.At the moment it favoures private schools: Knowing facts is more valued than understanding them.
From my experience in different educational systems I can say that the British educational system seems not to be created to provide a proper education, but to 'protect' the ruling aristocratic class against a real democracy.
Cal, Edinburgh,
I recall the profound culture shock as a Scottish (and therefore state) school kid when I attended St Andrews University and met for the first time the massed ranks of English private school kids. About one third were reasonably normal, one third damaged emotionally by the experience so one felt mostly pity, but the remaining third were the most poisonous snobs previously unimaginable - apparently status anxiety since they didn't make Oxbridge.
It really brought home what a class-ridden, demented society Britain is. My own son has the advantage of growing up in Norway, where standards are both egalitarian and high (it can be done with the political will, perhaps related to the fact that the politicians' kids go to state schools here), bullying rare and taken seriously, and private schools a tiny curiosity for religious sects or educational cranks.
David Gilchrist, Olso,
I attend a very good state school. This is what we need, not private education. Discipline in private schools is just as poor but is rarely punished as schools are not so accountable. Also, why do so many snobs who have long since left education need to post?
Ben, York,
I cannot believe there are so many snobs on here. Even if some of the unruly people like gang culture had the opportunity to go to public independent schools, they would never do well. That is because they have no support. Independent schools get good results for a number of reasons. These include issues of parental support, classroom management (with few children). Many of these children fail, not solely because of the state system but because they lack values and role models. People that end up in gang culture etc... are usually kids that have lived in bad conditions with people around them who lack ambition.State education has produced some of the best teachers and copes well considering the large classes and diversity of the children.It has some of the best agencies to deal with children with social problems. Private teachers will not deal with half these issues.Those that are born into supportive families that can afford private education should not be snobby but be thankful
Hayley, Newcastle/London,
Bullying is irrelevant. I was relentlessly bullied at a boys convent school, then, later went to perhaps the most violent state secondary modern "sink" school imaginable. To survive, you had to learn to get along with a very wide variety of personalities and today, I am certain that that "social" education has served me well.
But what is much more important is to recognise the disparity between the public school education and the State system. Until the State sector grasps the need to provide the same standards of education for all pupils, there will never be the chance for those of us, (forced by simply the financial status of our parents who brought us into the world), to find our true capacity. The fact is that many state educated will never reach their true potential simply because of the limitations of the State education system. That represents a great loss to the nation and is perhaps the greatest scandal because there are so many in the State system who simply do not care.
Chris Coles, Alton, United Kingdom
Whilst i would agree that the author of this article is not attacking all public schools. I feel that it should be noted that there is a place in society for these institutions. In a globalised world there are many occupations which require parents to move country even two or three years. Boarding school therefore provides a suitable stable enviroment for the children of such people to be brought up in.
idiot, perth,
Look at the results State schools have produced some great people, yet also the hoodies, knife gang culture, unemployed, under qualified unhappy people. Given the chance 90% of those in state schools would love to go to public schools. Perhaps the politicians should spend the ever increasing taxes on making state schools more like public schools. Make them ALL PRIVATE and give every child a budget for education, then if someone is not going to make to University, they can be trained to be great at other things, thus making then a valuable asset to the country, and also make them happy in the knowledge that are good at what they do, and society respects them.
charles, cannes, france
How about this for a Swiftian situation:
A country has 100's of years of experience of education, and as a result creates a private system which is recognised universally as being superlative.
The government of said country, rather than emulating and recognising the benefits of that system and expanding them to the rest of society, creates a truly novel way to redress the balance: It artifically inflates the achievements of the state system by grade inflation. Surprisingly this does not provide the holy grail that Government has been searching for!
The next solution is to attempt to prevent the products of the professional system from progressing to the best universities, thus ensuring that everyone is educated equally badly.
Labour must be congratulating themselves on nearing their ambition to create an equal society.
Victoria, London, UK
Dear Sir,
You clearly have a problem with people that attended private boarding schools. The real problem this country faces is that of the poorer un-educated sort. chavs! We, public school boys, have morals, we are polite , we work hard and we play harder! Your article is highly misguided, a bit of dorm beats, gauntlet, fagging and other tom foolery is infact character building. Most of the countries finest were privately educated. If our parents have moeny, then they have the right to send us to such superior establishments!
Charlie, London,
Oh dear oh dear oh dear, the tired old whine continues. The cheque book socialists, mostly sitting in Blair's camp are themselves the products of the very schools they denigrate. For goodness sake let people make whatever choices they wish for their children. As for the public schools breeding gentleman, and presumably ladies, well, the behaviour of our public figures from the PM down would suggest otherwise.
Mark A. thomson, Auckland, New Zealand
I went to a private day school in Manchester from the age of 11, and believe that I had the best of both worlds. I received an excellent education, and discipline and respect were properly taught. The greatest advantage, however, was that at the weekends I went out with my friends, watched the football, spent time relaxing at home, and was free to behave as any teenager does. I would say that my education was equal to that gained at a public school, although it certainly lacks the snob-factor, which seems to me to be the underlying reason that most children are sent to public school, however much their parents may try to deny it. I then went on to Cambridge, and hated the claustrophobic, insular, and cossetted environment of my college, which is essentially a school boarding house for slightly older pupils. Some of the public school-educated people I have met here are so divorced from the realities of life that I really doubt their ability to survive once they graduate.
Sarah, Cambridge,
Dear Sir,
Your priorities are incredibly misguided You are writing about a minority of boarding school life and its incredibly stereotipical and instead of attacking institutions that have produced great men like Winston Churchill, write about a state system that is now having to install metal detectors in schools because they can't deal with the growing threat of knife crime in their schools
G.E, south London, f
Private schools provide a better education than that offered by state schools. This is indisputable: if they didn't, they would go out of business.
People often say that parents have the "right" to send their children wherever they please. But when it comes to education, we're not talking about parents' rights, but those of children.
Thus: "The children of rich people have the right to a better education than the children of the poor".
Ha.
James, London,
I am curious about the incident at Rugby, given the co-educational status of that school, as to the gender combination of the expelled sixth-formers. As I have a public school education, my arithmetic may be suspect, but I can detect three possible permutations. Perhaps the authors might care to identify which one they meant.
Michael Preston, Orangeburg, New York, USA
I would have been delighted to save the £18,000 a year it cost to send my daughter to board at public school, and if the state system had shown any ability to deal with her dyslexia I would have kept her in it (admittedly we lived in a smallish town with generally good state schools.) However when at the age of 9 an obviously bright, intelligent child was written off by the LEA's educational psychologist as "unlikely to achieve any GCSE's" I decided enough was enough. She now has 2 As, 3Bs and 2 Cs and is studying for the IB - and she will probably go to university next year. It was money well spent, and snobbery had absolutely NOTHING to do with it. I just wish all children with specific learning difficulties could have as good an education as she eventually got.
Pen, London,
I know several children from the ages of 10 to 16 who attend Eton, Harrogate and King's. You could not wish for more polite, well mannered, intelligent, hard working, sensitive and happy children.
They are musical, bi-lingual and sporty. They have been given every chance by these schools (and most on scholarships they have well and truly earnt) .
I often look at each one and think if we have more like this then the future of the world will be OK.
Joann , ex-pat Singapore,
I actually go to a British public school and much of this article is out dated using a few rare cases to excuse its stereotyping. I started my school as a very shy person who would be the perfect target for the torment this article suggests happens regularly but instead not one person was unkind to me and I have been able to grow into a confident (not too confident) person. Having been to several schools in my time I can say that my school does not suffer from the social groups that divide year groups up. Instead everyone is treated equally. In short this article is stereotyping horrifically and is true only in some very extreme cases. People who were bullied at public schools 20 years ago would not recognize the public schools of today.
Hugh, Harrogate,
I don't think that the authors are trying to discredit public schools. They are simply pointing out that they are not necessarily the holy grail. For most people, they are fantastic institutions which unlock a bright future. For others, however, myself sadly included, they can be an utterly soul-destroying nightmare. Almost 20 years on, I still cannot talk about those five relentless years without the danger of choking up. There is nobody, but nobody, lonelier than the unpopular kid at an English boarding school.
james, Monteria,
I am appalled that your leader should be trotting out yet again the sententious rubbish about Tony Blair being a 'good Samaritan' by invading Iraq. If that were the case, he should have invaded half the countries in Africa, several in the Far East and quite a few more in the Middle East. No, it is clear that the invasion had no legal or moral justification. Sadly it happened and we must deal with the aftermath - preferably much better than we have so far. Since Gordon Brown has spent the last 10 years extracting unprecedented amounts of money from us, the least the Government could do would be to provide our troops with the best training and equipment to do the job. Then, perhaps we would not get embarrassed so easliy by Iran
Jim Oliver, Chichester, UK
The rest of the world boggles at the entire British educational system, designed solely it seems to reinforce and promote an archaic class structure. What on earth is this meant to achieve? How does it help Britain compete in the world? Choosing from a very early age to limit children's potential according to what school they are permitted to attend is not only socially inefficient, it's a recipe for national suicide. As we are seeing.
Dale, Wellington,
Having read this rendition I now realise how lucky I was to attend Gresham's School. Of course one has dificulty in comparing schools when one attends just one and so this article was instructive in that regard. I got a great education, introduction to music, a chance to build self esteem and played a number of sports which I continue to play.
Grant Chester, Scarsdale New York, USA
This is total crap! I believe public schools are there simply to give the child the best oppurtunity in life! Check out the top scoreboards for GCSEs and A-Levels--there is a reason as to why parents pay so much money to go to public schools--the results are normally twice the national average...take a look at Winchester, Radley, or Abingdon School. And then, just round the corner from Abingdon is John Mason, a state school. Its average was 44%. Abingdons 95% odd. Who is going to get a better employment offer? Who is going to do better? Surely you would note it is much more likely to be a student from Abingdon. And the things going on in public schools...well, it's just tradition, and thats what makes them them. Public schools all the way!!!
Tom Davey, Tetsworth, Oxfordshire
How long have attacks of this sort been common? 100 years? 120? Yet the schools sail serenely on, able to charge higher and higher fees as nearly every parent who can afford it flees the public system.
S.M. Stirling, Santa Fe, NM, USA
I might be wrong, but I don't read the article as though they are promoting state schools over public schools. To me it seems that Dornan and Locker are speaking from their experience and through research on how damaging the public school experience can be. It doesn't read to me as though they are saying that the actual education pupils receive are in doubt, its more the extras such as the pastoral care that public school provides that they are questioning.
I went to a minor public school until 18 and when I went to university, which I might add was no Oxbridge, I was incredibly naive and lacking in social skills.
All you have to do is look at the unbalanced and damaged individuals that come out of public school to see what damage it can do. And yes I know that is a generalisation, some come out relatively unscathed, but I do think the public school system causes some deep rooted neurosis which some never over come.
Sarah, Manchester,
On the question of skivs, lets not forget that many at my school were ruthlessly attacked and chased down by local state school children for no reason when 'uptown'. On occasions the police were called to stop the locals attacking the boarding houses. Its not all one way. On the sex video at Wellington do people really think they were the only 18 year olds in the country doing this? And on 'dorm raids' its completely blown out of proportion. Boarding houses are the greatest assets at public schools as they promote rules and robustness. There is no where to hide in a house of 60 boys, it promotes self confidence which can turn into or be misinterpreted as arrogance. Im sure its no coincidence at my university all the ringleaders of groups of friends are the public schoolboys despite being in the minority.
Ollie, Wilts, Uk
Would it be wrong to say that the authors' bias against public schools may have more to do with their feeling of exclusion through not making "their way to the top positions in politics, business or the law" than with well-conceived criticism?
Their criticism of public schools can be equally applied, whether vice-versa or not, to state schools - although most is hugely anachronistic (anyone who thinks the 6 inch rule has survived has not revisited their public school in years).
The only difference is that the criticism is based upon class and wealth and the "neuroses" that come from both. What the authors have failed to understand, however, is that a good public school will not only give its charges the opportunities its fees owe, but will also teach them to rise above the prejudices and prepare them for a life in a difficult and "back-stabbing" world.
Adam Huckle, London, UK
I boarded for 12 years at a clutch of schools. Kids will be kids whatever class they are born into.
I feel we had a lot less adult supervision than we would have had at home. This meant smoking, drinking, drugs, sex and violence. We also learnt integrity, philanthropism, irreverence and Latin. It taught us to be resourceful, manage our time, multi-task, network and manage crises.
The community of pupils is reinforced by the traditional rhetoric and they form a tight bond, it is mostly self regulating with little need for adult intervention. To the outsider it can seem harsh, but how is this any worse than the beatings we used to get from teachers?
Bullying is bound to adapt to include the horrors of the internet that prepubescent minds are inclined to seek out. Worse is locked up with your tormentors 24*7. At least the holidays are nice and long.
Public School isn't perfect, but if you stick it you will emerge with a survivor instinct that is sadly in decline across the country.
Shane, London,
As a current public school pupil I find many of your so called bullying incidents fairly laughable, it takes someone who doesn't understand to misinterpret the acts as bullying. I've been through it, dorm raids, or what were called "missions". It's when someone takes things too far that someone needs the good sense to call halt, whereas it appears the author here believes that it's all wrong and all should stop. You remove public schools and while you may have some social intergration, a great many people will merely find a new way to closet people. Finally the great majority of public school pupils come out with all the traits that are supposed to be instilled and it's only a minority that cannot intergrate into society as a whole, and as usual the press sensationalise and magnify these so that they can get a good story.
Tim Hamilton, Deal,
It was a choice that I went to a state school and it is not one I regret for a second. I achieved good grades and am about to complete my law degree. My brother similarly achieved the some of the top results in the country and turned down offers of scholarship at Gordonstoun for his final years. Yes I had to deal with disruptive students and yes I was bullied for a short period but this is what made me the person I am, a strong and determined person also very aware of what life is really like (a quality unfortunately many of my public schooled university friends do lack). What public school does is give better opportunities to less intelligent and less capable children. In terms of teaching manners and discipline and 'mentoring' - this is a parents job, not a schools. If your children are able, give state school a chance - use the money for holidays(real life experiences!) and paying off future university debts.
Sarah, London,
Having a father who has always taught in private schools, coupled with my own experiences at Giggleswick School and other schools across the country, I have huge faith in the public system. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at boarding school and would do it all over again.
It seems to me that this has become a ridiculous argument about which schools are 'better'. Surely this is an argument without an end, an argument that has always existed, and always will.
Why do we feel the need to prove public schools are better than state schools?
I feel that this is a debate that only needs to be done by a prospective parent, and they have every right to judge each school they look at for their children, be it state or independant. And almost a million parents, choose private schools every year.
When it comes to me choosing for my children, we'll see...
Alice B, London, UK
It happens everywhere. I went to Oundle and it is friendly banter. 'Dorm raids' you think this is bullying! Grow up. The majority of the writers went to public school they know whats it's like, nothing serious. Just fun.
Will, London,
Having a father who has always taught in private schools, coupled with my own experiences at Giggleswick School and other schools across the country, I have huge faith in the public system. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at boarding school and would do it all over again.
It seems to me that this has become a ridiculous argument about which schools are 'better'. Surely this is an argument without an end, an argument that has always existed, and always will.
Why do we feel the need to prove public schools are better than state schools?
I feel that this is a debate that only needs to be done by a prospective parent, and they have every right to judge each school they look at for their children, be it state or independant. And almost a million parents, choose private schools every year.
When it comes to me choosing for my children, we'll see...
Alice B, London, UK
Utter rubbish. The proportion of public school pupils (achieved on merit) in Oxbridge (50)%, finance, politics (both Cameron, Blair, Osbourne, Lord Falconer, journalism (Paxman, Jonny Diamond, both Dimbleby's) literature, business proves beyond any doubt that an education system which educates on 7% of the population (20% at A level) should be encouraged as the pathfinder beacon of excellence
Bruce Finch, Portsmouth, UK
I do not understand the authors haranging (?) of Uppingham which is based on bad personal experience in the PAST. I have never heard the townspeople being referred to as 'skivs' and the 6th form is about 50:50 boys and girls, so no reason for the 'bananna in a cage of monkeys' quote.
As an ex-malvernian as well, don't take this quote out of context... this is clearly ironic, laughing at all the things the school is supposedly well-known for! The authors' bitterness towards public schools is clear: and article by someone who had enjoyed the experience would tell a different story.
F Huntle, Hereford,
Is this article really talking about public schools in general? It seems to assume that all the schools it discusses take boarders only, which doesn't bode well for the accuracy of the rest of its generalisations.
Peter Taylor, Cambridge,
Reflecting upon Anjana Ahuja's article "Thinking Ahead" [posted 4th April, interview with Howard Gardner, 'Five Minds for the Future'], it would seem that we should all be developing what the Myers-Briggs Indicator would recognize as personality type ENFJ; someone who is capable of action,vision and possibility for others........ Whether we educate our children privately or within the state system; why do continue to subject our children to a semi artificial environment where the only reason the child attends is to satisfy some parental aspiration. Neither system is capable of producing what we need to support the new e-age.
In the meantime, I sense the 'old' professions will become swamped.... think about it!
RH
Richard Hogg, Milton Keynes, Bucks
It's hard to see the point of the article except to sell their book.
Independent schools are subject to rigorous inspection and the reports are published. Schools do a great deal more than just 'take a dim view' of bullying. They work very hard to eradicate it - far more than they would have done when Will and Ben went to school. No one condones bullying and no pupil is a prisoner there - the schools would empty if they were as bad as the writers suggest.
Numbers at independent schools rose last year to 504,141 - that's a lot of parents thinking they have found the right school for their child, and almost all of them will be right. League tables speak for themselves about the grades which children in these schools can achieve - and if sometimes the grades look modest, they're probably far higher than they would have been if the child had been left to coast at the back of a classroom where little attention can be paid to the average pupil.
Hilary Moriarty, London, England
This article displays a fundamental misunderstanding of what a public school education provides. It seems to dismiss the qualities of respect for others, self confidence and moral courage, which these schools aim to teach, as unrealisitic and unachievable.
In my experience, having attended both state and public, the pastoral care and personal development provided by the latter was far superior. There is a different ethos in public schools and whilst the quote at the top of the article about pupils leaving as gentlemen may sound archaic, I can assure you that it is just as relevant today as it ever was.
British public schools are the best in the world, not necessarily because they produce the best results academically, but because they produce intelligent, confident and rounded individuals. They do prepare people for wider life and for society at large whilst still maintaining those qualities which have been central to the concept of 'Britishness' for centuries.
Tom Ross, Bath, England
I think the authors are making a fair point, and I don't think (like some commenters) that their main point is to show support for the state system, but to highlight some of the limitations of a public school education. They definitely have a point about public schools groups on social networking sites - I've just looked at one the the groups they mention (it's on Facebook) and it's now full of comments about this article. Like "Obviously was written by a former state schooler wallowing in their own working class routes.
Those people really piss me off and truely have no banter"and "Apparently the bloke that did that pieace was an old uppinhamion!!! I think he has a chip on his shoulder!". I went to a public school and then, as now, I don't think it's worth paying expensive fees to give children such an arrogant, snobbish and offensive outlook on the world.
Tom D, London,
I would have loved to go to public school when I was young - I used to stand at the bus stop waiting to catch the bus to my state school and watch the girls in their public school uniform being driven there by their parents and wish for nothing but to join them. Ironically my best friend is a girl who went to that school and we found that when we met at university, we had a lot to learn from one another.
I'll send my children to public school without a moments hesitation - my husband went to a public school up until he was eleven. When he moved to a state school he did nothing for a whole year until the rest of the class caught up!
Lindsay, Bristol,
As a recent leaver of one of the schools mentioned in the article, now in my first year of university, there are several arguments that I find fail to appropriately take into account the issues at hand. Yes bullying does occur at public schools, but it would be utterly naive to assume that it does not happen, often to a worse extent, at state schools. The problem of bulling is being dealt with, the amount taking place reduced in the five years when I attended public school, to the point where it is now almost non-existent (perhaps the reason why the rare cases now recieve more media coverage). Also in terms of preparation for later life, my first year at university has really opened my eyes, yes there are some public school boys who live in their own oppulent microcosm, but often intolerance and misconceptions will come from those who recieved state education. People will have judgemental preconceptions simply based your education, something that my school taught me never to do.
John F.S., London,
I have my own objection towards boarding schools. My daughter was boarding since she was 9, she was extremely happy as her housemistress was a happily married teacher with 3 children and husband working in the same school. When we changed schools and the housemistress turned out to be a devoted Christian spinster, also lacking in looks department, which doesn't help if you are in charge of 40 teenage girls, I knew it will be a disaster. I also found that many house staff are not married or not even in a relationship. All these spinsters in charge of pastoral care, housemistresses and their assistants, were living completely out of touch life. It is cheaper for schools as only single accomodation is needed for staff but surely it is a bit wierd as I was lectured by a childless spinster how to rise my children. My daughter refused to board and became a day girl. And guess, who was her day housemistress? Another spinster. I can't win.
T Vikstrem, Kingston, England
I attended a private school for my secondary education, the opportunities available at such a college were and still are first class. The mixture of tradition and histroy with modern facilites gave myself an excellent education. Such chances were available at no state school near myself. At some state schools knife crime, is increasing, there's no respect for teachesr, pupils swear at teachers and do not have to face any consequences (current students have informed me of this) No-one at my school would have dared to swear at a teacher through fear of heavy conseuences. We have learned respect, a skill which is not common these days.
Sophannah, Hampshire,
As a foreign student from Austria. I went in the UK to both- private and state schools I can compare the big difference. We moved to the UK (temporary) because of my dad's work. At first, I went to state school in Leeds and I hated it. I hadn't seen so many rute, badly behaved kids in my life. I have to say, teachers were trying pretty hard to get their attention. I have to admit, there were some kids who were smart and who were ALSO trying hard but majority just had really bad attitude towards everything and studying and these kids (including me) were picked on and bullied. However, whwn my parends put me to Harrogate Ladies College my life had gone back to normal. I am very happy and actually enjoy being at school (like I used to at STATE school in Wein) ! So, my point is: UK's state schools are not bad, bad is the "material" in it and its parents!
Pandora, Sheffield,
For those who fit in these schools are a springboard to success, but for mis-fits the experience can be hell. Because the kids are so much more isolated, with parents often hours away or living abroad, there is simply no escape from tormentors even at night. I believe the public school system creates a 'lord of the flies' hierarchy which naturally encourages bullies, and when these children grow up they have a poor social conscience. I left school with great qualifications but I was bullied on/off from the age of 9 to 18. The mental scars had a crippling effect on my social skills, and even 20 years later my self-esteem has never really recovered.
David, London, UK
Of course, the state schools are paragons of virtue - no room for improvement there. No bullying, lots of backup when pupils get into difficulties, how fortunate we are to have a state system. How dare the independents have better teacher to pupil ratios, teach extracurricular activities and instill standards of "gentlemanly" behaviour.
I once wrote an article like Locker and Dornan's but I was in the 4th form at the time.
It is good for the state system and for the independents to have something with which to compare themselves.
E M Sedgwick, Eastleigh, Hampshire
If private schools are so awful how come demand is stronger than ever and privately educated individulas are disproprionately represented in the higher echelons of every walk of life in this country without demonstrtaing for the most part any dysfunctional characteritics. The caricature represented in this article is just that a caricature. One could do one for the state system too.The fact is these schools are all different , have diiferent offers and seek to differentaite themselves to satisy consumers choices. Puerile generalisations are no substitute for informed analysis
patrick watson, london, united kingdom
The article also conveniently forgets to consider the bullying and snobbery (perhaps of a different kind - and often inverted) that is inherent in state schools. Admitedly this may end at 4:30p.m. when the children leave, but there is ample opportunity within school hours to make a child's life miserable.
Further, I'm quite sure that it wasn't just on my (state) school's rugby pitches that children were having sex, and there was a defined attractiveness rating system for any girl or boy that was victim to it, not just new pupils.
The key differences between private and state educations are that class sizes are smaller, funding is better and there is a better support network around private schools. Oh, and the average pupil gets better grades. This implies they are getting something right.
N, london,
It's about time the lid was blown on these schools that sacrifice a modern, relevant education for a bunch of pointless, out-dated traditions.
I emerged from my public school education with a string of A grades, but with such a sheltered view of the world that I feel my real education began when I walked out of the gates for the last time.
Luckily, some of us realise along the way how ridiculous the whole charade is.
Gary, Birmingham, UK
Come on, public school is a racket to give some children a better chance than others - for cash. Of course comps have more problem students, they have to look after everyone, from high achieving kids all the way down to the roughhouses and troublemakers. They don't have the ability to say, sorry not enough money, go away. How public school defenders have the audacity to criticise comps just shows how entrenched and 'natural' the whole racket is.
When I wanted to join the Army as an officer, they sent a recruiter to meet me. He was terribly excited to see a nice lower middle class boy from a Valleys comp. Yeah, till I mentioned I was interested in the Blues and Royals, or the Life Guards. Sorry son, you aren't from a smart enough school, how about a different regiment. I eventually went to sandhurst on a visit, as I sat down for the first time, the cadet looking after us leaned over to the guy next to me and said
"How are things in Eton these days?"
Like I say, a racket
Gavin, Sussex,
I agree that there are inherent drawbacks to public schooling, narrow-mindedness and snobbery being perhaps the worst. However, state schooling is also far from ideal - considerably lower grades from comprehensive pupils than public school ones prove that the public school standard of education is simply higher.
I believe that the happy medium of private, rather than public or state, schooling is the best option. I attend a state school and am happy there, but friends in private schools who are of similar academic capability to myself and my schoolfriends achieve better exam results and have more extra-curricular activities open to them. However, these private school friends live very much in the "real world" and have no air of snobbery about them, unlike many public school students.
Private education, therefore, surely contains the best of both worlds: a high standard of education in a real-life environment.
Laura Coleman, Leicester, UK
On the same day as this article was printed the DT had three articles. "Secondary schools going backwards" talks about schools failing gifted children. Then "Teachers threaten to sue over cyber bullying" talks of state School Teachers worried about bullying. Thirdly the Education Sec. wants "a lottery for places at good State Schools" reason to reduce numbers of middle classchildren.
There are some problems with Private Schools but the alternative has major problems. Parents can and do give their children to meet a wide range of other children in local societies , Scouts & Guides , Local Sports teams and local events. The start is a good education and without doubt most Private Schools provide that , only look at League Tables.
T. J. DOLAN, Weybridge, Surrey
yes some of the issue's here are true, there is bullying in boarding schools and alot of stereotyping from peope who do not attend a boarding/ public school. However there is bullying in comprehensive and state schools which is of far worse a nature! Knives on school premises is a regular occurance in many of these schools along with aggression towards teachers and other memebers of staff! Also to say that it does not prepare you for the real world is not quite accurate. Children in boarding schools have grown independence from their parents so have the ability to take on challenges and minor decisions on their own. This will help them in later life where others may have struggled.
krissy, carlisle,
What a lot of total tosh! I have had three children at Public School (one has left now). One is 5 one is 11 the other 19. I would be proud to let them meet anyone be they King or commoner. My daughter learned nothing of practical value despite her education having cost me around 100,000. However she has a soft heart for the poor and is not a snob despite her pronouncing the word ass like oss. My three are confident and bright. This came with a sacrifce of pension, large residual mortgage and no holidays to speak of but I love them to bits and they will contribute positively to the world. One question: Why in other cultures when walking on coals is "tradition" and must be "respected" do these two jerks sneer at their own tradition? A more glaring example of chronological snobbery and self loathing would be hard to cite. ALL schools should be private! Everything the government is involved in fails. If these men are shocked by immorality let them train for the priesthood.
Peter , Shaftesbury, Dorset
Caveat emptor? If people want to send their children to these schools, surely it is up to them, but I don't buy the 'social-cachet-and-nothing-else' argument against them for a moment. What parents want - and evidently don't find in the state system - is good, stretching, well resourced and focused education from teachers committed to more than some recent educational theory. And no, I don't have children at a public school.
Mark, Reading, UK
I attended a minor public school some time ago where I obtained 3 good A levels and won a place at Oxford. Many wouldclaim that I succeeded. I think otherwise. I found the lifestyle, and discipline, paricularly in the sixth form degrading and demoralising. As a result I went up to Oxford very immature and lacking in confidence and social skills. I had a miserable time at Oxford and underachieved considerably. But I can point out one advantage of going to a boarding school and that is from the moment I left I have never seen anyone from the wretched place ever again.
Roger Mintey, Surrey,
As a current public school girl, I weekly board at a boarding school in Surrey, I can relate to some of the “issues” mentioned in the article. Only my outlook on the issues is very different. For example the “bundling” of students, by selecting a random participant in a group, tackling them and the whole group “bundle” over the boy, is common practice at many schools, however in most case “bundling” is not as many think “bullying”. Instead bundling is a game. Dorm Raids were also mentioned but in fact are simple attempts to escape the boredom of boarding houses late at night, involving pillow fights or excess amounts of shaving foam. But don’t get me wrong, in some context these “games” are in the case of bullying, targeting one person in specific, but the majority of the time boarding schools are a great deal of fun and character building. Although the principle of “fagging” was abolished years ago at any school, simple hierarchy systems still occur; there is the one table (continued)
Annie, Dorking,
What a pathetic article! It is in our state comprehensives that our children are being betrayed!
richard, Worcester, England
Why not write about your own experiences, why you left public school, and actually tell us something interesting, rather than things we can read for ourselves on the front pages of the red tops?
Otherwise all this looks like is one of those lazily-researched articles written purely to plug something. Oh.
Mike, London,
So far the debate has been all about what happens to public school pupils at senior school, i.e age 13 to 18. But one ought also to consider the effect such education has at much younger ages, arguably the most vital years because it is then that the skills and confidence needed for success in life are gained or missed.
My experience, as the father of a six-year old who has been in the Gigg pre-prep school for three years, is completely positive. Thanks to excellent, caring teaching coupled with small classes my son speaks with a large vocabulary, reads and writes pretty fluently, enjoys mental arithmetic, has started playing the viola and recorder and is physically very fit. You couldn't want a better start than this.
David Rees-Jones, Settle, UK
If state schools were run in the same way as Public Schools we would not have the frightening mess we are in now. ie. no respect for teachers or Rules. We would not have the Knife and Gun culture. We would have children with manners, who have learnt to take punishment when deserved.
We all have to take the rough with the smooth whether we like it or not, it is a vital part of our education.
It would appear that Locker and Dorman have joined the "nanny" state ,.
P.Norman, Horsham, Sussex
Public school certainly stands young men in good stead when they come up to Oxford. The clever ones know what to do from the first day, and it is the rare comprehensive school man who can catch up. It doesn't turn the less clever majority into philosophers, of course, but at least they know how to conduct themselves socially.
Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK
This article was more than a bit one sided. It seems to be more anti-public school propaganda than well researched news. This belongs in the editorial pages, not on the news side. As someone who finds schools for parents and pupils, and spends her days studying public schools (including the lambasted Uppingham and Bedford) I would ask Mr. Locker and Mr. Dornan where they went to school and to find the perfect, unblemished school, be it public or state. I can assure you, it is an impossible dream.
www.rightschool.com
Tamara Rosenberg, London,
As a former pupil of Christ's Hospital, I was more than a little disturbed to find an image of the school and it pupils illustrating an article that ignored the fundimental differences that set it apart from the rest of the public school system. Whilst the uniform may be Tudor its approach to care of pupils and well rounded education couldn't be more different.
Christ's Hospital is far from the preserve of the elite that by association you suggest it is, it unlike many other public schools takes its charitable status seriously and a high percentage of pupils like myself came from low income inner city families where full scolarships were made readily avaliable. In fact pupils whose parents were paying full fees are in the minority.
Whilst it is true that boarding/public school education is not for everybody in an environment like Christ's with the wealth of different backgrounds, it provides a wide range of opportunites and facilities to children who could otherwise not access them
Ian Baxter, Belfast,
Not all public schools are riddled with snobs, drugs and bullies. My son attends a public school with a diverse mix of pupils from wide-ranging backgrounds. Many parents like myself make sacrifices to send our children to schools where we feel they will get the best all round education. I am not rich, nor am I a snob. My husband and I both work full time and have put our children first. Yes we could have moved to a smaller house in the middle of nowhere to get our children into a good state school, but we chose to find a school that we felt suited their needs, and where they would reach their full potential. It is not true that public school breeds contempt of others - that is down to the parents! Over half of the children in my son's class receive bursaries due to the fact that they are from low income families. He is not mixing with the elite, but with other children who want to achieve, and who's parents want them to achieve. Is this so wrong??
Tracy, London, Englans
I think this article is completely unfair and unfounded. I was horrified when I read this article. Especially regarding oxbridge entry where there are increasing rates of state school aplicant successes - this is mainly due to the changing attitude of oxbridge colleges whereby if you are from public school you have to strategically apply in order to have a fair chance. I went to public school and then continued to go to a university without a "strong public school ethos" where some people dont understand what happens at boarding school and so I felt it was a difficult subject to broach with my peers - why should I be ashamed of attending a school that my parents sacrificed money for. I think the wider british public needs educating about the benefits of boarding schools rather than just harsh generalisations. I agree that there are some of these stereotypes that exist there but we are not all like that and we should not be afraid to show that in fear of ostricising our peers!
Alex, Leicester,
Of course public schools are better in every possible way than states schools. The reasons parents pay so much money to send their children to publich has NOTHING to do with snobbery. It is because they do not want their children standing outside McDonalds from 4pm everyday causing chaos on the streets of Britain. You just have to take a look at the nasty, agressive, violent, and abusive teenagers on the streets of towns like Sutton to know that they are being educated at local state schools. I have witnessed kids in Addidas tracksuits verbally abuse elderly people on the streets as a form of entertaining themselves. I would put a million pounds on a bet that says you would NEVER see a pupil at a public school do antything of this nature. I cannot believe that this issue of 'bullying' has been so blown out of proportion! the real issues are the muggings, stabbings, teenage pregnancies, rape, and physical and violent bullying that occurs everyday in state schools.
Chris, tonbridge, surrey
Heather McGregor's justification for sending her sons to Wellington is simply absurd. "Uniform, discipline, sense of community and history" are no less valued at our son's comprehensive, and indeed most state schools. So too are "teamwork, the ability to accept authority....etc." Not to mention high quality teaching, excellent facilities and creditable exam results. What a shame that, on her own admission, she did not even check out her local state schools. She might have been surprised.
Where our son gains is in being a daily part of a wider community, with access to a far better range of social, cultural and sporting opportunities than any public school could hope to provide. The "hothouse society" of the public school is a poor substitute for the enriching social mix of most state schools. As parents, we are glad to be here for our son every day, to know all his friends, and their parents too. My wife and I both went to public schools, but would never wish them on our own son.
Richard Barton-Wood, Norwich,
I do not think the article goes far enough in describing the bullying that occurs at these schools. It is much more widespread and vicious than suggested.
Will H, Cambridge,
This article doesn't even go into the incredibly blasé attitude to drugs in public school, and an unprecendented level of availability and affordability. Perhaps this is something new (maybe the last five years?) but as an 18 year old my younger brother could speak to any number of his peers at school today,and get his hands on anything up to heroin. Plenty of his friends do so every weekend. Drug-dealing is rife, and of course it is so far removed from the 'streets' that these kids selling and taking coke or amphetamines are not engaging at all with the dire consequences of the illegal-drugs industry they are feeding. The only thing they're worried about is 'getting caught'. And even if they are, it is usually hushed up to protect the school's reputation. Depressing stuff.
Pete Smith, London, UK
My public school "education" was narrow, artificial, isolating, discriminatory and damaging. I was deemed "hopeless" and was left with no self -worth. It did however teach me to survive anything that life threw at me, however awful. My subsequent two years in the state system were a harsh wake up call to the real world, but I discovered that I was in no way hopeless and went on to achieve. My peers were not interested in my background/house/parents etc., a refreshing change from public school where that was how you were defined. I feel public school education continues to breed the very worst sort of contempt for others and encourages shallow, vapid and self obsessed individuals.
Stella, Worcester, UK
My brother went to Gigg and I remember going to drop him off at the end of exeat - boys were drinking outside(obv underage), they had damaged property, music was blaring and it was clear the housemaster had no control over the boys in his house. My father was furious and called the headmaster from my brothers room. The headmaster said he would look into it and nothing more was said to my father. My father wanted to pull my brother out because he was very sure that bullying was going on. My parents being divorced meant that he couldn't, as it was my mothers choice. I was so shocked by what I saw - my sister and I were also away at school and our housemistress would NEVER allow that type of atmosphere in house. If you were rude you were pulled aside and told to behave. If you did it again you were on house duties. Then again, my sister and were at top 50 school while Gigg is nowhere near that.
Anon, Anon,