their's 4 million camera's in London,cops are getting helmet cams, their hiding them in your garbage to make sure you put it in the right place,they'll be albe to track your car 24/7, I've read also there miked so they can listen and respond.....so I think their's a picture or two with questionable behavoir out there of ya'll...............what's creeper about facebook is who and what is behind it.............

Gee Man, Vancouver, Canada

Wow, people need to lighten up big time in this world. SO WHAT if people having stupid shaving cream all over them after completing extremely hard exams. They deserve to cut loose and have fun after that stuff. You only live once people, make the most of it. GO USA!!!

America, AmericaVille, USA

In Brazil we´ve had this kind of problems with Orkut on the last few years, a similar service provided by Google. I think 60% of the users are Brazilians. Heahunters were searching for job applicants profiles, then finding out that some of them joined bizarre groups/communities such as "I hate to wake up early in the morning", or "I love to flirt at work". Nevertheless to say those applicants kept unemployed.

Orkut also was responsible for arrests regarding people who created or took part on pedophile, prejudice / hatred communities.

Most of users are erasing their pictures and "scraps" ("wall" on facebook) to avoid having people reading private messages. Keeping, literally, low profile.

Facebook seem to be going on the same way as orkut. I advise users to be more careful of what you post on profiles.

Frank Honma, Sao Paulo, Brazil

In Germany we have a quite good expression for the behavior of this procs, it says:

Unter den Talaren
der Muff von tausend Jahren!

wich could be translated with:

Under the robes you smell
the muff of thousand years as well!

But by the way, don't be stupid posting such pictures in the internet.

Marcel, Düsseldorf, Germany

The main problem here is that other facebook members can tag you in photos wihtout your permission, thus making it very hard to control who sees pictures of you.
The level of surveillance that this news story implies does worry me, especially with the imminent introduction of biometric passports and ID cards. There are going to be more and more prescriptive laws, a sorry case. And yes, it is akin to reading my emails or text messages. Alas, the probelsm of social networking lies once again in surveillance.

Charlotte, Cambridge, UK

To all the people who are outraged at the behavior of students I'd like to say this is nothing new and probably tame compaired to what our present leaders got up to. The diference now is the prevelance of camara's and so the likley hood of it coming back on you at a later date and the presence of more rules governing every aspect of your life.

I don't think its fair to say if a photo of you gets into the public domain you should expect to be punished. I'm sure all of us have done stupid things at some point in our lives. Should a picture of you getting drunk when you were underage, or whatever your stupid thing was, be able to be held against you in latter life?

karen, liverpool,

What do these people expect? It is foolish and naive to expect that posting pictures of themselves on the internet will give them privacy. There is one obvious answer, perhaps it requires more than a degree to work out what it is.

CA, Manchester, uk

If these toffs are using tax-payers money and repaying society by vandalising property and creating a public nuisance, then every effort must be made to bring them to justice...well done the dons!!!

John Dixon, London, UK

My fraternity was suspended from campus for 2 years because of photos on facebook. There was nothing wrong either, just the fact that we had first semester freshman joining us and they consider that to be wrong.

TJ, PA, USA

So, before applying for the job you should put all posts into "friends only" or "private" mode.
However posts on blogs can be used as a good addition or portfolio during searching for a job.

Andriy, Lviv, Ukraine

I think one of the major problems is Facebook itself. It is incredibly easy to gain universal access to every profile, whether it is set to private or not.

If you can identify yourself as an employer, you will simply be granted access.

Matthew Taylor, Norwich,

How is it even the school's business if it is done off-site?

Tim, Toronto, Canada

They are being rather stupid if they think that publishing on Facebook is "private". In addition, if they are indulging in banned behaviour in public in the age of digital cameras and mobile phones, they should be intelligent enough to understand that pictures might find their way onto websites. However, I think the authorities are being a bit petty; it's not as if they're throwing paint, for example. Surely you just offer some of the students the chance to earn some money for two or three hours (not every student at Oxford is rich) by going out with buckets of water. And if the staff have time to go trawling through websites to see who might have been throwing flour, they're obviously a bit underemployed.

Rebecca Billings, London, UK

I see this is a small growing pain - people will adapt and become much more conscious of photographers and cameras, and adjust their behavior accordingly. Imagine, if you will, the person who posted that incriminating photo becoming ostracized from their group of friends for being the indiscreet one. Students have always hated "narcs" or "tattlers", and this is just another aspect of tattling that will eventually go away as we become more used to photographic evidence.

Privacy is not just the domain of laws and technology and corporations. It's also the domain of individuals and their small communities of friends.

Anca, Oakland, USA

For heaven's sake, there are some real student-bashers out there who have obviously forgotten what it's like to be young. Facebook has privacy settings, and whilst I don't mind sharing photographs of my activities and my (entirely innocent, it must be said) social behaviour with my friends, I think it is quite scary that other people are deliberately violating that to check up on students.

Facebook is a social forum for sharing opinions and interests and making friends. If these students were out at a pub chatting about the same things they wouldn't expect employers or professors to be hanging around listening in and judging them for it. A social persona with peers is different to an academic of professional one in any case.

Have people nothing better to do?! I suggest that people think back to their younger days of freedom, come down off their high horses and stop judging people on having a bit of fun and their own opinions.

Eleanor, Matlock,

You know, a smart person does not allow someone to take incriminating photos of them.

Basically, tell people to ditch the cameras and camera-phones at parties and such events. As much as you think it's great to see pictures of yourself drunk or high on whatever, those picture can come back to bite you.

The problem I see with schools using Facebook to punish students for certain acts is that the acts could have happened anywhere and at any time. Where does the school come from thinking it has the right to punish students for what they do outside school? They should not be allowed to dictate how a student must act outside school premises as it is no longer the school's responsibility once the student leaves.

Po, Ottawa, Canada

The university authorities are just doing everything they can to ensure that the public perception of Oxford is not of a place full of rich kids behaving badly, and it is essential for them to do this in any way they can.

Why? It is hard enough to dispel the unfounded myths that Oxford is only for the rich (when it is in fact for bright students with high potential from any background) without a minority of irresponsible students undermining the extraordinary outreach efforts being made to encourage more excellent students to apply to study in the university.

So-called "trashing" is a new and disgusting nuisance: it distracts others who have not yet finished exams, and it undoes much of the good work done in recent years by students and tutors alike in broadening the appeal and accessibility of the university to all who could benefit from studying in Oxford irrespective of their background. OUSU should bear that in mind, assuming it genuinely supports promoting wider access.

Richard, Oxford,

Bob, while your comment correctly advises students to review the information they post, I feel you are missing the point somewhat. Evidently this is not rocket science as many people, including professionals and staff using facebook, are not aware of how easily their privacy can be invaded.

When a facebook user sets their privacy settings to friends only, posted information does not qualify in their minds, rightly or wrongly, as being in the public domain.

This is a two-fold privacy issue surrounding the fact that a) there is lack of awareness amongst users that their privacy is vulnerable; and b) University Proctors are taking retrospective action based on photographic 'evidence' that a student may not know is in that public domain due to the ability of other facebook users to tag photographs.

Hopefully, in the future, users will learn from the unfortunate experience of others.

Jenny, Oxford, UK

The rules are there, and part of the system. If you want to break the rules, you know there'll be consequences if you get caught. If you want to break them anyway and take the consequences, then fair enough that's up to you. But whinging that it's not fair that they caught you is just pathetic.

Ex-student, Shanghai, China

I just find it hilarious that all celebrations are outlawed in the first place! I finished my last exams at the end of may at St Andrews University. Due to the mess that other substances used to leave only water was allowed. We however used salt to supersaturate the solution so that it would not freeze at 0 C but the resulting temperature was about -15 C. We used water pistols/balloons and buckets and had a great time. Maybe if they allowed some fun then people wouldn't take it too far.
Oh and the staff and residents of the town find it highly entertaining, and I know that at least a dozen tourists took photos!

Rebecca Comley, St Andrews, Fife

It's a game of cat and mouse I must say where the mouse almost always finds a way to outwit the cat (0=
If there's one thing I've learnt from all these years in school/college is that there are certain things one should get over with at the right time otherwise you regress & get traped in a weird bubble no one can ever pull them out of....
It's just a matter of doing the right sortta partying at the right time, it really helps build character.
What's worse is that in the process of trying to outwit disciplinary authorities, be it the school or the parents, the kids become vulnerable to several other hazards drugs, violence....
The solution?
Pulling the right strings at the right time.
Educate them of the ill effects of certain types of behavior instead of just saying "NO" discuss the long term implications.
Somethings only come with age, theres no explaining a 15 yr old why swearing in public ISN'T COOL! or y presidents don't dye their hair purple

jks, Quetta, Pakistan

Dont you see? Its not about oxford student or not. Its not about what they do or not or if someone put a stupid picture incriminating him or not. I dont know a single english who never had at least a big night of drink. Having fun after work or celebrating something is it against the law? So why peoples could not share pictures between there friends about the good time they had together (and i mean by that not breaking the law or damaging anything). Just a nice evening between buddies. So for that, something than even the CEO of any company would do you can breach privacy and say to someone you fired or i will not hired you...common guys be serious...its simply shameful

cedric, bordeaux,

The defaults on Facebook are that everyone can see every reference to you.

You can prevent anyone else seeing photos in which you're "tagged", but sorting out the privacy settings takes time.

The more interesting point is the general one. There are currently no privacy controls on search engines, for example. I know of good people who have defamatory articles as their top hit on Google. How long before we demand some more discretion and editorial control from other information organisers?

Nick Aldridge, London,

This is NOT a breach of privacy! These students voluntarily post the incriminating photographs of themselves on the internet. As they are at university I think it's safe to assume they are aware that millions of people have access to the internet, including proctors and other school officials. Apparently, they are proud enough of breaking the rules. Not to accept the consequences of their actions is immature and shows a lack of character (this goes for people inadvertently caught on film breaking the rules as well).
Here's a bit of advice: if you are incapable of restraining yourself from participating in activities which are illegal or even just against the rules, DON'T take pictures of yourself doing it and DON'T post them in a forum where millions of strangers have access to them. In this day and age, whether you like it or not, you have to operate under the assumption that someone is ALWAYS watching. Use a little common sense.

Erin, Washington,

There are 2 issues here:

1. To what degree are is our digital media private? Should colleges have the right to search a student's laptop hard drive or read personal emails without 'probable cause'?

2. Blitzing people with champagne, foam, non-permanent paint, eggs, flour and feathers is a very old tradition, and it's frankly brilliant. Persecution of it should be down to landlords and police if needed.

I have never seen anyone other than pub landlords act anything other than amused or nonchalant, in response to this kind of japery.

It's as ridiculous as banning footballers for taking off shirts as part of goal celebrations.

anthony, london, uk

I thought undergraduates were supposed to be intelligent.

"Facebook is a social utility that connects you with the people around you" it says. A maths and philosophy student such as Mr Hill ought to be able to understand that, but, if not, in mathematical terms the Unversity authorities are a subset of the 'people around you'. In philosophical terms, they can be regarded as the Cartesian Other.

Frank Upton, Solihull,

Surely this behaviour is par for the course is it not? After all when these students start work they will be in the top echelon of management or politics where they will expect to behave how they please with impunity, it's just training is it not?
Is this not why whilstle blowing is so frowned upon by management? Somebody exposing their wrongdoing against their wishes...shame.. All these students complaining that they shouldn't have to be exposed to this kind of thing will be those that will look to expose those doing the same thing in the future....Ha Ha!

Graham Palfrey, Littlehampton,

I suspect Winston Churchill might have had the odd embarrassing photo up on Facebook, were he alive today. If the employer can't handle the fact you had a good time as a student, work for someone else (who won't be going out of business or being arrested for kiddie porn in a year's time)...

Patriot, Oxford, UK

When in Rome do as the Romans. That hasn't changed. As my daughter (age is late 20s) has said for years, I could never run for office - there are too many photos. Is my kid one of the few in her generation willing to take personal responsibility for her actions?

Connie, Grand Junction, USA/Colorado

I agree completely with Margot in Toronto. Live your life online and anybody has the right to find out how you live it. Rather satisfying to read. Same goes for Myspace etc, which i've always thought was a huge invasion of ones privacy, merely in listing who your friends are, let alone what they say etc.

Steve, Bristol,

Nice to see Oxford clearly drawing attention away from the recent drugs/stabbing scandal with this defliection method. Pure PR.

Rebecca, London,

never say things you do not want people to hear.
never write things you do not want others to read.
never pubish things you MIGHT not want seen.

Especially on the internet!

w mills, Louisville, usa/ky

To all those criticising the students involved, I suspect that you don't actually realise what sort of website facebook is. On facebook you specifically determine and add your friends and the idea is that no-one except these friends can see your profile/ photos.

The students were not putting their photos in the public domain as such, but sharing them with what they hoped would be their select group of friends. It is decidedly scary that the University authorities managed to access these photos, as apparently can potential employers.

It's a shame that facebook access has been widened to include just about anyone. It used to just be Oxford and Cambridge students, then just university students. Shame on facebook for selling out and allowing things like this to happen.

Luke, Cambridge University,

A lot of these photos went up when facebook was private and only accessible by students. Its is meant to be a group between friends where only people you know can see the pictures. It is an invasion of privacy and will only cause worse things to be put up on other sites that are more private and less famous.

Gemma, York,

Ohh it's all good fun, stop being so sour!! I have some terrible pictures of me up! doing crazy things! But I'm not fussed, as professional and personal things should be kept seperate. I am even a member of the global company I work for on facebook, so it's not all bad!

Adam Webb, MK, UK

As an Oxford resident I'm glad that these idiots have faced some consequence for breaking University rules. Every year students jump off Magdalen Bridge on May Day, breaking limbs on the shopping trolleys in the shallow water below. They then complain that more wasn't done to protect them. This year the entire city was inconvenienced by the bridge being shut off. Why should everyone else have to put up with the mess, damage, cost and inconvenience caused by the ridiculous 'traditions' of an over-privileged few?

Dan, Oxford, England

The only sad thing here is the fact that the University considers itself competent to control the behaviour of students outside university buildings, wearing clothes they have hired with their own money, and drinking beer they have themselves purchased. What right has the University have to interfere with student's behaviour outside their property or class hours?

Frederick Davies, Oxford, UK

Those who are ostentatious enough to incriminate themselves on Facebook do so precisely because Facebook is not private. If they perform such acts in public and pose for photographs, they are clearly not concerned about privacy.

Oxford students should not be so naive as to think that such material is not admissible in subsequent disciplinary procedures or a court of law.

They are entirely missing the point if they believe that restricting access to "only" a few hundred contacts will prevent particularly interesting material from propagating to a wider audience: for example, I recall the incident of an Oxford undergraduate whose amusing birthday invitation email found a global readership of millions.

Dave, Cambridge,

People who live in glass web sites shouldn't ... ever!

KR, Stockport,

So these are Oxford University undergraduates and they dont realise that posting incriminating pictures on a social networking site will mean they are in the public domain? I bet these are the same people that complain about CCTV and the so-called surveillance society that we live in.

Rod Munch, Northampton, UK

"Trashing" may be messy, but barely registers on the Richter scale of anti-social behaviour. Why doesn't the nerdish tendency among Oxford proctors simply insist on students organizing their own clean-up. No results released until the streets are clear of egg and flour.

Colin Berry, Antibes, France

Toby?
27 yr old in Iraq as a consultant
what is he qualified for ?

just another one taking the money..and running

Kev Lax, Shanghai, China

My god, what's the world coming to ? Spraying eachother with flour ,or worse yet champagne. What's the world coming to? Next thing you know, dogs and cats living together !

Rob, Toronto,

Frankly how can anyone be surprised that the number of incidents has increased. The admission of fewer well brought up public school educated students in favour of so called underprivileged state educated students explains everything. I hope the number of incidents continues to rise and students are allowed to let off steam. it is not as if they are destroying anything.

david, london,

I'm afraid that I agree with Bob. Why post evidence that you have done something stupid/illegal/antisocial on the internet and then moan about the consequences of people seeing it??! I actually think it is very resourceful of the proctors to use Facebook. The moral of the story is: If you don't want to get caught or exposed - don't put it up on the internet!!

Patrick Treacy, Cork, Ireland

I think some of the people commenting on this article are ignorant to the workings of facebook. As the student in the article stated, she had changed her privacy settings so that only her friends had access to these photos, meaning that the proctors obtained their evidence in an underhand manner. This evidence would be inadmissible in a criminal court!

Tarryn, London,

If that was the case then there would be no need for anhy privacy laws at all then?????

Student, London,

I wonder if any of the people writing their opinions on this page would expect their comments to be used against them at a later date. Wthere Facebook constitutes a public domain or not, surely there should be a limit to how one's opinion can be used, in particular, retrospectively?

Jenny, Oxford, UK

I feel sorry for the people who go to places like Oxford. They might get a good degree but what sad people.

Ian , Manchester, England

Stupid makes evidence available means Stupid gets prosecuted.

David Thijm, Stourbridge, UK

Presumably the fines issued will be handed to the local authority to compensate for the cleaning up the mess these jueniiles leave behind.
Heaven forbid, one of them will turn out to become a future Prime Minister, President or leader of some other fanatical sect and lead the World into disaster.

neilwp, Frankfurt, GERMANY/Hessen

Do these people not understand that publicising your life on Facebook is akin to standing in the street or a pub shouting out your personal business? It's no more 'private' than a cellphone conversation on a crowded bus. If you choose to live out your life in the public domain then you must take the consequences.

Margot, Toronto, Canada

Whether Facebook constitutes a private network and whether pictures thereon have been published is a matter that those reading Law might wish to ponder. The issue of exuberance which may reasonably be expected in certain rites of passage and limits thereto might interest those with a psychological perspective to the Social Sciences.

The main fun of such student revelry has always been being seen to cock a snook at authority, and the main concern would be damage and inconvenience suffered by third parties.

Perhaps in the future some celebrations could be virtual, and might be steered in the direction of websites specialising in fantasy worlds, perhaps with virtual proctors.

But, if it’s not real and no-one rises to the bait, and no-one cares, what’s the point?

As Ben said in The Graduate: You’ve got me there!

dr venables preller, Warminster, UK

We must not smooth path of the transgressor.

Their fault for posting these things - don't complain - grow up.

Phil, Preston,

I heard that Facebook started out as a university project. How ironic.

DH, Bournemouth,

Whatever your age, when using the internet, you need to be really savvy about who could access the information and how they could use it. If you think there is any chance that something could be used against you, don't post it on the internet.

Rob , nottingham,

what is worse... celebrating a little over-exuberantly or stalking those in your care?

jem, london, uk

How did people this stupid get to Oxford ?

If you don't want to get caught, could I suggest you don't photograph yourself breaking the rules and then publish them on the internet.

That said, fining students for throwing champagne and flour arround seems very draconian. Wouldn't it be better to simply make them clean up the mess ?

Chris Long, Thirsk, Enagland

I think this is just endemic of the fact our lives are now being rendered indelibly in data, whether we like it or not. This isn't about "big brother" - it is simply a reflection of the fact that we all have a strong desire to share our lives in public, without understanding (or caring about) the downstream consequences of our actions.

You think you have no reputation to protect when you leave University. Well that may be true now, but in 5 year's time when you go for Partner, that indelible data may well come back as a very informal, but very real, character reference.

What is far more ominous is when data is created about you, but not BY you, as a reaction to your "citizen journalism". Opinion quickly turns to fact, and that can be as damaging to your employment prospects as a badly written CV.

Andrew Jordan, London,

what's facebooks comment on this?

cb, wales,

I am waiting for someone to say

If you have nothing to hide...

What next? Going through your phone and looking at your photos of you and your friends? A requirement that you name your friends and their email addresses? A requirement that you detail your sex life? What about submitting to a DNA and character profiling test. What if all the sanctions available are then applied retrospectively. A bit unfair don't you think?

How are companies and bodies, such as colleges (banks can't any more), able to fine people? These are quasi-criminal sanctions to which you are forced to submit. If you do not submit then you are denied your degree, which you worked hard for. Isn't that blackmail?

A private life is still lived in public. The difference is that it has nothing to do with your work or commitments. That is the meaning of public. It does not mean a secret life. Why should you be continually judged on having a life? Has surveillance replaced God as the author of our morals?

Paul, London,

"Martin McCluskey, president of Oxford University Student Union, said: “...the university’s use of private photos from the Facebook site..."" - if they're on Facebook, they are, obviously, no longer private!

Dan G, Reading,

In response to the above comments about how students should be careful not to publicise their "trashings" it should be made clear that other people can post pictures on the facebook site without the "culprit's" (immediatee) knowledge.

The sub fusc tradition is an ancient one and whilst there should be limits, the authorities at Oxford university should allow a degree of celebration in this traditional way.

Jeremy Oliver, London,

The individual putting information of themselves online isn’t the issue here - it is others tagging photos of you they have uploaded over which there is little control. Until you actively delete the tag, these photos are available for all to see.

This does interfere with a persons privacy, and considering the lack of control over uploaded photos of you it is immoral for companies to use social networking sites like facebook as a recruitment resource.

How can one ever relax in a social situation if a photo (because of mobiles everyone has a camera at all times) taken during the occasion without your knowledge might effect future employment opportunities?

Dave K, Brighton,

Clever people these students are nowadays - the future of our country is assured

Neil, Paris, France

Bob of Sawbridgeworth and Stu of Bournemouth are well out of tune with the nature of facebook.

If they were members themselves they would quickly realise that it is not just the pictures you post yourself that are available on facebook. I am sorry to say but most students arent that stupid to have put incriminating photo's of themselves on their site. The problem lies in the fact that other people who happen to have photos of you can post it on their site, completely out of your control.

Therefore the incriminating pics appear without you even logging on to facebook! The volume of users make it implausible to contact everyone and ask them politely to remove the pics, and this would be at their discretion anyway. Most of these types of photo s are group ones and if your on them, you won't be able to get off!

It is a complete breach of privacy and the law should move with the times to reflect this.

James , Sydney,

If these idiots are an example of our future leadership potential then nothing will change.Posting evidence of rule breaking on the net is not the action one would expect of a brain box.
I hope none of them take up Bank Robbery.

Michael J Rigby, Blackburn, England

Oh dear-I am a 27 yr old who works as a consultant in Iraq, Facebook is my only link to my friends back home, I spend a few evenings a week infront of my computer insulting my friends. I am fairly childish in nature and subsequently my facebook is littered with ''mindless toilet'' banter and to cap it all I have just created a group called ''Those who wipe insults off their walls need to man up''!

I am not seeking employment at the moment, however plan to move back to the Uk next year and look for another job.
How can these fun spoilers get access to your profile if you have not accepted them as a friend, this is worrying. I may have to go under a psuedonym like all the other freaks on the internet!

Toby, Baghdad, Iraq

Its a sad indictment of the intelligfence of todays students that they thought they could post pictures on a massively public website of either criminal acts or the breaking of university rules and get away with it.

In my day we learned to keep such activities well away from the eyes and ears of those who might come looking.

Perhaps some common sense qualifications in University would not go amiss ?

Graham, Woking, UK

I think the point is rather more that the pictures posted on facebook can have privacy settings and supposedly only the people you allow can see the information you put up, unless you intend it to be public.

Matthew Malkin, Leatherhead, UK

Universities and employers are kidding themselves if they feel a student/employee should not have friends or a life outside the uni/work.

Plus, your own Facebook is supposed to only be accessible to friends yoiu have added.

Rebecca, London,

I'm just glad that Facebook didn't exist when I was a student. The pranks mentioned in the article seem pretty tame to me compared to what we used to get up to.

As for potential employers examining Facebook for signs of what used to be known as "personality", well that sums up much of the modern business world: they want dull, drab automatons

Dave (Kings College London 1980-83, Newcastle University 1985-85)

Dave, Notts, UK

So what is new? We awere doing this 25 years ago when I graduated.

Mark, London, UK

I myself am a university student, yet I highly welcome this move by Oxford university to punish bad behaviour. I would also like to see other universities use similar tactics.

Although, it must be said that charging students for simply pouring egg/flour/champagne over themselves does seem a tad excessive when compared to utterly disgusting behaviour which I have seen whilst at university.

How is it that evidence of binge drinking, drug taking and violence through pictures on facebook goes un-noticed whilst simply pouring flour over yourself warrants an immediate fine?

I say universities should prioritise facebook tactics to combat violence, vandalism, drug abuse, binge drinking and should simply overlook egg throwing.

Patrick Hutchinson, Earlam,

Er - have i missed the point?

The right to privacy, is not the right to undetected wrongdoing.

If you do something wrong and get caught you will be punished. If someone is daft enough to make the evidence of their own wrong-doing available on a public media they must take the consequences.

This even applies to Oxbridge undergraduates who will, no doubt in time, join thier peers in the media. Oh - look they already have!

Stuart Williams , Bournemouth,

Students, grow up and get real, if you are going to put information in print in the public domain do not whinge when some one uses that information. If it can be used against you do not place it onto the internet, it is not exactly rocket science.

Bob Head, Sawbridgeworth, Herts