Alexandra Frean, The pace of education reporting is just too slow. What I strongly suggest to you is that you develop a relationship with education editors at The Australian and an American paper (WSJ should have a Higher Education section, which would provide a framework for discussion of grammar and argumentation). The idea would be to run the sections taking advantage of the time zones so that comment would be posted without delay. Also, the same problems arise in Australia as in the UK, but the flow of information is weak. The UK government should fund an investigatory team to tour the world and focus the Linguistics issues with English. I put forward John Sinclair, Della Summers, and Thomas Newkirk to do the initial investigations. You see the comments about grammar everywhere, all over the world, but there still is poor focus. What is the response to my previous posts on corpus Linguistics and grammar? If some can't pay attention, they just can't solve these intractable problems.

Calyton Burns, Vancouver, Canada

What I find really interesting is that the government want 50% of youngsters to be at University in the near future and they seem to be doing everything they can to ensure this is the case, such as dumbing some exams down to an extent.

Surely this will make things a lot more competitive for the cream of the crop, if half of the teenagers in this country have also attended university. Hence, does it really bother me if there are people out there incapable of writing essays properly? No, it doesn't. Ultimately, it means I'll have less people to compete with for the best jobs when I finish university. Don't take me wrong, I'm not being selfish or arrogant here, but at least this will provide some sort of differentiation for employers.

Lucy, West Midlands,

I studied in the US and I must informyou all that this is a problem in the US as well. Many foreign students find themselves in masters programs after receiving undergraduate degrees from overseas just to go to the US and rely on th ewriting expertise of US group members. I say group members because everything is group oriented now. Many Universities in the US now require that entering students take a common writing class first because graduating students with poor writing capabilities shows poorly on the schools.

joe, London, UK

Surely all this points to the question - what exactly are A levels testing? If the curriculum for each subject has been broadened, then it probably is more difficult to test the students' knowledge by essay-type answers. If this is the case then to prepare them for university each A level student should also be taught a course in essay-writing and study skills alongside their other subjects (not necessarily examined, before all you potential A level students start shouting about too much pressure!!). It is not right that these things should have to be picked up at university when the assumption should be that students are already skilled in literacy. University should be about developing a critical and analytical approach as well as deepening your knowledge of your subject(s), not filling in the gaps of a poor schooling.

Liz Flynn, Exmouth, UK

yes iagree as a matured student who in uni and was how to write critical approach essays has been astuggle to do my essays i can write stories but when it camesto thesis and have aopinion over a subjest has been hard to put to paper

marilyn , Mildura, australia

I attended a Russell Group University, and was shocked by the low standard of grammar and spelling that some of my friends and classmates had, despite being really intelligent, having gone to really good (often public) schools. I grew up in SA, where we were all taught English grammar and spelling. It has stood me in good stead, knowing correct punctuation, grammar and spelling. I also think that over-reliance on Microsoft spellcheck doesn't help much.

Lisa, London,

Most universities are only just coming to terms with the implications of widening participation for how they teach. It is easier for lecturers to deal with the massive change by externalising the problem than by accepting that they need to do things differently. Complaints about student writing have been expressed in much the same terms for decades, if not centuries - see George Turnbull's quote from the TES of 1954! What is little understood is the connection between writing and knowledge. Most academics realise that they advance their thinking through the writing process, but many expect students to pick up complex disciplinary writing practices with little support and then complain that they 'can't write'. Writing effectively at an advanced level (from A Levels upwards) is intimately connected with the learning process. 'Learning to write' and 'writing to learn' should be complementary within curriculum at both A-Level and degree level.

Alan Evison, London,

(cont.) , can benefit of it undoubtedly later. I had to study it all, learning English as my second language, I had also to familiarise myself with the grammar of my mother's tongue during my primary and secondary education in my country (Poland). All I can say is: it really helps me to express my thoughts in writing now.

SK, East Lancs., UK

I have just taken my A Levels, and I achieved two A's in History and English Literature. I come from an ordinary background and I went to a very average girls secondary school. The insinuation that A Level students cannot string together a sentence is highly insulting. Certainly, something needs to improve with regards to basic skills in the education system but that does not apply to all of us.

Now, can some people get off their high horse and remember that just because some teenagers can't write a proper essay it doesn't mean that we are all the same?

Amy Sanchez, Kent,

I think, as Chris has pointed it out correctly in the comment above, that the poor knowledge of grammatical rules contributes mostly to the problems with comprehensive and logic writing. Exactly, it is very diffcult to use the language properly, especially in the more formal registers, without understanding, for example, the structure of the sentence.
I was really surprised when I had come to this country few years ago and noticed that my interlocutors did not understand such terms as: object, subject, noun, verb, adverb, adjective, reported speech, conditional, singular/plural, grammatic tenses and so on. Many of them were actually up to degree, well educated people. What always seemed obvious to me, a foreigner, was clearly not so to English native speakers! Later on, one of my English tutors told me that a grammar is not taught here, only linguistics, modern or classical language students learn it during their university studies. I wonder, why? One, who spend some time to learn

SK, East Lancs., UK

Our English teacher for A Level despaired at the fact that we hadn't been taught grammar the way they used to, as did we when we realised how much we had to learn. Which we did and all did quite marvellously this year.

The problem with A Levels is that anybody can cram and cram and then regurgitate a year's worth of learning out again in 2hours. Students get no credit for ingenuity or initiative - if it doesn't meet the examiner's marking guidelines then it doesn't get marked. So students are left to manipulate their answers, knowing that including certain techniques will shoot their grade up to a grade that perhaps isn't accurately reflective of their ability. It's frustrating for students too, can't you imagine how boring this was?

Don't forget that one of the reasons that A Level grades are good/pass marks is that students who don't perform well at AS and don't really stand a chance of passing A2 aren't allowed to continue their causes, so are filtered out of the statistics.

Helen, Leicestershire,

I agree with the article. Far too many people are being trained to tackle a core, closed set of questions without consideration of practical application. As a result, we see brilliant A Level scores yet one wonders if they can apply their education outside the boundaries of academics. Writing is a very important skill to hone for life, being able to master it is quite essential in University where textbook answers and pointers are inadequate.

Azfarul, London, UK

Can't say I agree with everyone when they say that students these days can't write and that the exams we take are useless. I sat my A-levels 2 years ago and only 1 of the (maths) didn't involve writing at length, although not essays normally as they were all science classes. Still everyone on in the engineering department had to take a class that included how to write scientifically, just because they have to make sure that everyone is at the same point.

Matthew, Glasgow, UK

I sat my A-Levels three years ago in German, Russian, Maths and Physics, and Chemistry at AS-Level. I have to disagree that A-Levels, when taught properly, neglect the development of critical and discursive writing skills. Those who seem to think this is the case clearly have no experience, or a poor understanding, of how A-Levels are assessed.

The written exams i sat for German and Russian A-Levels involved writing discursive essays on, for example, the literature, politics, history of the target country. For German we were also required to sit a paper demonstrating our ability to write extended pieces in different registers.

Each of the six physics papers i sat contained at least one extended-writing task (ie continuous prose for roughly one side of A4), including a paper based entirely on essay question titles for the synoptic paper. This was also the case for the three papers i sat for AS-Level Chemistry, minus the synoptic, since i did not continue it to full A-Level.

Thea, London,

As a degree-level student who has only just been taught the basics of grammar, I would definitely recommend that it be reintroduced into the curriculum. Writing suddenly got much less scary once I had got to grips with prepositions, gerunds, infinitives, appositions, participials and the like. Now, when a sentence seems awkward, I can usually fix it fairly instantly, whereas before I could tinker for hours and still end up with a worse mess than when I started. Trying to write without learning grammar is like trying to fix an engine without a wrench - it's perfectly possible, but bloody awkward all the same.

Chris, Cambridge, UK

What truly disturbs me, as a current university student who sat A-levels three years ago, is the lack of emphasis in the marking schemes given to coherence. Certainly, when I was studying English, I was made acutely aware by my teachers that the marking schemes rewarded specific elements of content, however poorly worded or inconsistent. I regularly read coursework essays submitted by less confident classmates which consisted essentially of well-phrased tutors' notes strung together with inconsistent linking words, and no clear argument whatsoever.

Of course, when those relying on this tactic reach university, they are in for a rude awakening! I was equally disturbed at the number of students resistant to the idea that their A-level essay writing skills were not sufficient to produce a good piece of degree level coursework. I think it's a real shame that the A-levels have become so bureaucratised - is a system relying on standardisation, not discretion, really fair on the brightest?

Holly, Birmingham,

It depends on the subjects you take. For instance you always get essays to write in History and Politics exams and unless you can write well-structured and coherent arguments you won't have a B or even A because essay questions count more than all other exam questions.

Daniel Fernandes, Kettering/Lisbon, UK/Portugal

Most secondary school teachers know of this deficiency - I think!!

Rodney Barker, Gainsborough, England U.K.

The standard of english expression has undoubtedy deteriorated over many years and if the standard amongst university applicants and students is bad - what of the rest?

What was wrong with old Precis and Comprehension Tests and the weekly spelling tests?. However, these were disciplines in usually well disciplined schools with kids from well disciplined homes within a well discplined society.

I could read reasonably well before I started school - thanks to Mum and Dad. Do chidren receive this kind of help today?
I doubt it.

I wonder how well young and trainee lawyers manage to communicate efficienly today. Some may have the 'Gift of the Gab' but are their pens (or word processors) mightier...?

Rodney Barker, Gainsborough, England U.K

the problem is the policitcalisation of the exam results. I took A Levels 12 years ago, and no one took more than 6 in my school (the student in question took spanish and french as two of those and was raised tri-ligual). since then i have seen media publishing of results glorying in the students taking 8 or more A Levels and recording all A's, firstly if no one 12 years ago was taking 8 then something must be different, and secondly the student who works hard and gets 4 b grades must feel that they are not good enough. A levels used to be considered to be a high standard, but now they are rightly seen as a political ploy. My sympathy to all those hard working students who don't get 8 a grades, and i advise you not to read the papers for the next 2 weeks.

Ben, folkestone, uk

With regard to some of the other comments made: just because someone writes a lot, it does not mean that it is a structured, well-argued essay.

I often have to coach my students here in Germany about how to write a structured essay. How to brainstorm, organise their ideas logically, write an introduction, essay phrases etc. This should really be taught by teachers in school - not by someone like me who just does some tutoring on the side.

Tina, Düsseldorf, Germany

I suspect that the vast majority of UK residents with English as a first language have no interest in recreational writing. Which implies that contributing to an Internet discussion is well outside their ability. Therefore, "Internet correspondents" are essentially the cream of the literary crop. So when sites such as BBC's “Have Your Say” publish letters containing many basic errors, this is a type of ritual humiliation. Although of course if BBC insisted on error-free, very few contributions would make the grade. Seems many do not even run their submission through a Spellcheck. A university degree is the minimum requirement for an English teaching position here in Japan, but many schools are finding to their cost that this no guarantee of basic English skills. Bad case of silk purse; sow's ear.

Andrew Milner, Yokohama, Japan

As usual, the annual disparaging of A-levels has started in earnest, with the usual suspects fanning the flames of such farcical nonsense. It beggars belief that every A-level student is tarred with the same brush and supposed experts are unable, or unwiiling, if I am being cynical, to acknowledge the endeavour and commitment of hordes of students up and down the country. Moreover, if the dismissive sentiments currently expressed about the A-levels are widespread, the crtics have to accept it with an air of resignation as we will be the future guardians of this country. Fancy a barrister or a surgeon who lacks eloquence? Tough.

Shahib, London,

I completely agree that universities being forced to take students who do not meet standards of others, but are less priveliged is wrong, however unfair this may seem. In my opinion the brightest students will suceed even if they have a lower education. However personally I took 3 A levels this year, geography, english and economics, all entirely essay based, and i wrote up to 12 pages for some exams. In some subjects essays simply are not used because nowadays, despite all the complaints about modern examinations being easier, many subjects simply cannopt delve into essays when their syllabuses cover larger grounds than they used to. A levels are simply more broad and less in depth, this does not make them easier, and provides a simple reaon behind the lack of essays in some subjects, though as I have stated others remain completely esay based.

daniel Cater, Richmond, Surrey

Can't say I agree with everyone when they say that students these days can't write and that the exams we take are useless. I sat my A-levels 2 years ago and only 1 of the (maths) didn't involve writing at length, although not essays normally as they were all science classes. Still everyone on in the engineering department had to take a class that included how to write scientifically, just because they have to make sure that everyone is at the same point. Its also quite a good way to help people get unsed to university, as it means you don't need to go to all the first year classes

Matthew, Glasgow, UK

Teachers leave a lot to be desired. Take for instance the teacher I know who supposedly teaches geography to 11 year olds who didn't know where the Lebanon was, nor the capital of Hungary. According to her, this was not geography. I pointed out that teaching children about volcanos and rainfall (which was the core of her work that term) wasn't geography either. Her spelling and numeracy are appalling too. We no longer speak.

Dorothy della Porta, Warwick, Warwickshire

This is no surprise. When I sat A level examinations, all were essay based. Now A level students have the choice of assessments throughout the year (non essay based) and multiple choice type questions. No wonder our universities are struggling to cope with students that have a basic level of written English. Their spoken English capabilities are just as pitiful!

Michelle Clifford, London,

I work at a university and read a lot of correspondence from students, and the odd essay. There are many students who are unable to write properly. Emails to staff are written in 'text speak' and written work often has poor structure and many errors.

In the ten years since I left school there seems to have been a decline in the standards of written work by students and I know from friends who have marked school English SATS papers that in some cases they are not required to award marks for good writing because the emphasis of an exam is placed upon comprehension, not the ability to structure a good answer in high quality written English.

BK, Birmingham,

May I amend the statement of Jim Knight as follows?
"As we increase the proportion of young adults going to university, we have to ignore the proportion who are incapable of expressing, not only facts, but also a coherent argument"
He (might have) added that solutions included the addition of essay writing etc. to primary, and not A level, education.
Maybe, also, basic numeracy.

MikeM, St. Albans, England

now is this not a shame indeed....A level students are typically 17 year olds, who make love, smoke, drink ( illegally, if you please) and claim all their civil rights....but forget their duties...
guess they shall be better off educating themselves in schools in india where education and merit go hand in hand and a few grades dropped over two critical years can transform the future from an engineer to a car wash man !!
looks like the english need to wake up now, get less obsessed about rights, and realize your duties first.

shripad sathe, normanton, uk

It is nothing to do with aptitude or coming from non-traditional backgrounds, and everything to do with poor education in secondary schools. Indeed many students from non-traditional backgrounds have fewer problems than others as their parents ensure they are taught in a 'traditional' manner. I teach at Cambridge and our students are still very intelligent, but they are not capable of constructing sustained arguments. A minority of even the best students also have problems with English spelling and grammar and many have great difficulty in writing clearly so as to avoid ambiguity. I reiterate, there is nothing wrong with the students, whatever their background, it is the quality of education in secondary schools and the charity of examiners at A-level which allow standards to fall. The problem seems to be recent: I only left school within the last ten years and have seen things slide, whilst colleagues consider the situation to have worsened in the past few years.

JS, Cambridge,

The standard of English in this country is a national disgrace.I never cease to be amazed at the lack of grammatical skills of job applicants.
Education,education,education.
Don't make me laugh.
We are a joke.

Michael J Rigby, Chorley, England

All the A levels I sat were essentially essay-based. We had to be able to construct a convincing argument, even in foreign language papers.
What has happened in the past twenty years? What are the young actually tested on nowadays?

Lux, Nancy, France

In theTimes Educational Supplement of 5 February 1954, under the heading Illiteracy in GCE it is stated: It must be held disquieting that all eight examiners, independently, reported that a very high proportion presented the fruits of their study of acknowledged English classics in a written form that was, to some serious degree, illiterate. The word is not used lightly. The widespread ignorance or indifference about the most elementary points of reputable English usage was distressing in itself; in the context of the candidates’ reading and their pretensions to discuss it, this evidence was frightful and frightening ….

George Turnbull, Fleet, Hants

'A' levels never were about the ability to write critical essays - they are, and were, about regurgitating 'facts', decided in advance by the Examining Boards. Markers do not have the time,nor discretion to grade non conventional answers, no matter how thought provoking or original.
It is ironic, given the fall in the uptake of the 'hard' science subjects, that basic literary skills are, apparently, in so much decline. Over 40 years ago when I took the examinations, we science students were deemed to be so poor at these basics, that the 'Use of English' examination was introduced. Failure in this subject resulted in failure to matriculate, ie no university place.
Perhaps there is an epidemic of undiagnosed dyslexia sweeping the country, or perhaps the falling standards which are meant to characterise 'A' levels are actual. How are we to discover the truth? It is a conundrum along the lines of "Quis custodiat ...." What absolute standards have we against to measure then and now?

W A Quirke, Derby,

This problem is not unique to England - I have recently started a degree course as a mature-age student and am appalled at the quality of writing skills displayed by my fellow students. The majority of them are unable to write a meaningful sentence, let alone a 2000- or 3000-word properley referenced essay. Still, at least they all got good marks at high school.......

Piers, Sydney, Australia