John O'Leary
We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
For most students, the attractions of a degree have always been as much about what you can earn when you start work as about what you will learn. With graduates now expected to accumulate debts of up to £30,000 by the time they leave university, even the academically minded will have more than one eye on their career prospects when they choose a course.
Recent studies have suggested that higher education remains a good financial proposition, as well as broadening the mind. PricewaterhouseCoopers puts the average salary premium at £160,000 over a working lifetime, compared with those who choose to go straight into employment with two good A levels.
However, the accountancy and management consultant found big differences between subjects — a premium of less than £1,000 a year for arts graduates, for example, but almost ten times more for those with a medical degree.
While the majority of graduate jobs do not demand a particular subject, the annual employment statistics tell a different story. When the Higher Education Statistics Agency collects its figures, six months after graduation, significant differences are already beginning to appear.
Some are predictable — such as the clear lead in graduate salaries enjoyed by medics and dentists. But many will be surprised to learn that graduate nurses earn £1,000 a year more than their counterparts in business studies, and that psychology (one of the boom subjects of recent years) languishes near the bottom of the salary league.
Social work is another surprise inclusion in the Top Ten for graduate pay. Indeed, Hay Management Consultants has reported that public sector starting salaries now outstrip the average for private companies, although surveys in mid-career, let alone those of top management salaries, inevitably tell a different story.
Engineers also do well for initial earnings, with all branches of the discipline averaging at least £20,000 a year in 2005. But some big subjects, such as English and biological sciences, are to be found near the foot of the table, with starting salaries for graduate jobs close to £17,000 and the average for non-graduate work below £14,000.
There are similar variations in immediate graduate employment rates, when jobs are classified according to the skills required and the likelihood of progression into normal graduate careers.
There was no measurable unemployment among graduates of medical and dental schools in 2004-05, and very little among nurses, vets, civil engineers or those taking education degrees.
Graduates generally are much less likely than the rest of the population to be unemployed, although the jobless rate reaches 10 per cent in electrical and electronic engineering, computing and art and design.
But more than a quarter of all those completing their degrees start their careers in “non-graduate” jobs, and the proportion exceeds 40 per cent in some subjects.
As the table of earnings here shows, the salary gap between the two types of job can be considerable and, while it is normal to take a menial job to establish a foothold in the performing arts, sport or tourism, the starting point may be a better guide to future prospects in more traditional graduate occupations.
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Mathew from Sheffield, put yourself in an employers shoes.Who would you want, an intelligent but idle employee or someone who works thier socks off. Also most 2.1's are both imtelligent and hardworking. I suspect there isa bit of a chip on the shoulder going on here.
Phil Bailey, Shrewsbury, UK
As someone who has been on boths sides of the applicant/recruiter circus, I can honestly say that there is no substitute for a 2.1or 1st from a top university.
I'm sorry if that sounds bleak, but most people telling you otherwise generally fall outside this catagory.
It shows you can work hard!!
Phil Bailey, Shrewsbury, UK
Matthew, Guildford
Obviously looking to wind up people. You must have a First to come up with that one.
martin, london, uk
I woud like to point out that although 2:2 degrees are less desireable and do require less effort to achieve, they are essential for a general spread of academic achievement. If those who get 2:2s are removed from the job market, then 2:1s would become redunant as everyone would want a 1st.
I also agree with Sham, that it is the Labour government that are encouraging youths to do something that they do not want to do.
However, I must state that I know many people who are highly intelligent and have achieved a 2:2, whereas lesser individuals, who put in more effort into their course, have achieved better marks.
Mathew, Sheffield, UK
If you are unable to manage at least a 2:1, even without doing much work, then you're not really university material. So anyone complaining they can't get a good job with a 2:2 needs to realise maybe they just aren't particularly intelligent and they've wasted a whole load of money.
Matthew, Guildford, Surrey
I agree that Universities are no longer teaching a degree for the subject area but rather to suit Government targets and employer demands. I'm in my final year at University of Abertay studying computing and networks and you would think it would primarly concern itself with networking, instead there are modules that don't relate at all. It's not just that causing a problem. There is an increase in the amount of rubbish lecturers being hired - this leads to people failing, dropping out and not getting the help they need. Something needs to be done. There are jobs that many people are more than capable of doing but because of a rubbish lecturer they didn't get a 2:1 and so become unemployable. It's ridiculous!
Tracey, Dundee,
Of course there need to be measures in place by which to filter the enormous amount of graduate applications but it is quite clear that this is no longer possible using classifications alone. It is undeniable that the value of possessing a degree has decreased dramatically under the Labour party due to the amount of polytechnics and lesser academic institutions being granted university status. It has there become increasingly difficult for employers to distinguish between graduates gaining a 2:2 from a Red Brick from some clown picking up a 1st in Shoe lace tying from Roehampton.
Sham, London,
I gained a 2.2 in Civil Engineering from a red brick university for which I worked hard, and have found it extremely difficult to be chosen for interviews since. I do not blame the companies for this; it is just another example of this governmentâs target culture legacy, unable to distinguish between A-levels and with an influx of graduates who were told they must go to university, a line must be drawn somewhere. The problem with this is the palpable gulf in academic standards between courses and universities.
I know of many who moved courses to subjects such as Media Studies and have had no problem being offered interviews upon gaining their 2:1/1st class degrees, and it is understandable that sixth form students are adopting this cynical view, prioritising an âeasyâ degree over university or relevance to career. I would however recommend against this as I foresee a backlash with employers starting to look past the grade in favour of the studentâs actual scholastic qualities.
Tom, Birmingham,
I gained a 2.2 in Civil Engineering from a red brick university for which I worked hard, and have found it extremely difficult to be chosen for interviews since. I do not blame the companies for this; it is just another example of the governmentâs target culture legacy, unable to distinguish between A-levels and an influx of graduates who were told they must go to university, a line must be drawn somewhere. The problem with this is the palpable gulf in academic standards between courses and universities.
I know of many who moved courses to subjects such as Media Studies and have had no problem being offered interviews upon gaining their 2:1/1st class degrees, and it is understandable that sixth form students are adopting this cynical view, prioritising an âeasyâ degree over university or relevance to career. I would however recommend against this as I foresee a backlash with employers starting to look past the grade in favour of the studentâs actual scholastic qualities.
Tom, Birmingham,
I am currently applying for job and I have to say it is true that employers often (but not always) look for good A Levels and a 1st or 2:1. I did a science degree and got a 2:2 due to poor exam results (health concerns at the time).
However I was not put off and stayed on to study a postgraduate MSc. I now have a great many more options.
Finally, grades are not the only key to getting a good job. I've known of people who've got 3rds from 'lower' universities and with years of work experience have secured top jobs. Iâve also known of people with 1sts from top 10 universities who are unemployed.
James E, Plymouth, UK
I agree with aiming for a 2.1 and above, graduate recruiters, especially times top 100 graduate recruiters demand a 2.1 grade or above.
I have recently graduated with a business studies degree and managed to get selected for a times top 100 recruiter. However i ended up with a 2.2 due to poor exam results. The company wanted a 2.1but they didnt drop me completely, I have been offered the same job on the same money of 24k per annum but not on the grad scheme.
But the best advice would be to take a degree which incorporates a placement year in industry. Without that year in industry i would not have been able to keep my job as i would have had no working experience. Also with more and more students studying for a degree, having the experience of working within industry will set you apart from the competition and could land you that graduate job.
Gary A, Southampton,