It just shows how little governments really care about the
people. Alcohul average, fat average and all the bad things
have been allowed to rise with government consent..........

and now its all our fault.

M walker, Nr Bromsgrove, worcs

A Labor Government doing this it's just not right. A person has a right to free medical care whether they smoke or not. It just goes to show you the Labor Party once who stood for the rights of the common man don't anymore.

Paul Martin, Brisbane, Qld. Australia

So having paid my extortionate tax and national insurance for all my working life, because I'm overweight, as I get older I won't be entitled to the same level of care as some one who has taken from the system, rather than paid in? I don't think so!
I would persue this through every legal channel available. How much more are we going to take from this incompetent, inept Government?

Alan, Stoke,

I suggest that the benchmark for treatment be set at the Prime Ministers weight.

GJB, Slough, Berkshire

A way forward on a smokers' treatment ban: all tax on tobacco removed to achieve a (moral as well as financial) level playing field, i.e. Treasury (and NHS) would not benefit from a tax on something which disqualifies the purchaser (smoker) from medical treatment while the huge amount of money saved by smokers could then be used to fund private healthcare, if they so chose. Same system could operate with alcohol, burgers and chips.... (please supply own preferred sin).

I don't smoke or drink but I benefit hugely from the revenues brought in by taxing cigarettes and booze. If smokers and drinkers also face discrimination when ill, can that be right?
Put the money (tax) back into the consumers' hands and let them choose what they do with it.

dreamer, bournemouth,

I was diagnosed with breast cancer(not,by the way a wrong life-style disease but hormones gathering up where they shouldn't!)and was seen at the hospital within 2 weeks,operated on,underwent a month's radiotherapy and 3 months later back to swimming,cycling(laughing!)etc.Couldn't fault the good old NHS.(It wasn't covered in my private health insurance.But then I'd have been no better off.)Courteous,skilful,friendly staff at every turn for whom I give thanks daily.

HD, WsM, UK

The duties of a Doctor according to the Declaration of Geneva have developed from the original Hippocratic Oath. There is a conflict between medical ethics and a Government or Administrative prescription for the rationing of "RIghts" according to a socio-political judgement of how a patient is deemed to have met "Responsibilities". Once these boundaries are drawn, they can be shifted on political whim. That is a dangerous and inhuman precedent.
The intervention of the political in the field of professional ethics is further evidence of the instincts of intervention and near-fascist thinking from a Government which has demonstrated a growing propensity for intervention in and monitoring of all aspects of our lives.

David Mannion, Burnley,

Labour politicians used to be described as heavyweights,now they are overweight,out of touch control freaks.They waste our money,distribute it to Labour strongholds to cling to power & use false statics e.g on passive smoking.They lie about cash for honours,the Iraq invasion,mess up our NHS & schools.They prevent the police from stop & search through political correctness, & turn a blind eye to illegal immigration.In the latter case they have believed their new voters will come from immigrants,but you will never get a Labour politician to admit that.When their policies fail & they do fail,it's who do we control & bleed next.Today it's the smokers who provide huge taxation benefits,prior to that car owners(petrol tax,car tax,speed cameras,4x 4,road charges) All the time they feather their own nest with freebies, book deals & payed speeches.Their incompetence is now well publicised,even Brown's illusion of economic competence has been exposed.The evidence is overwelming.Vote them OUT!

Clive, Storrington, West Sussex

What about those of us with private medical care who in effect pay twice for the same service? The idea that obesity - as indicated by body mass index - leads to illness is not a foolproof connection. For example I know people who are skinny and have been so all their lives who have type 2 diabetes and heart attacks. You cannot put everyhting down to obesity. Also what about smokers who live to their 90s without any ill health? If you follow this idea through to its logical conclusions - if you have a car accident and its your fault then you shouldn't be treated - likewise sports injuries. This is stupidity.
I'm not sure about smokers contributing so much in tax - what about smuggled cigarettes or cigarettes brought into the country legitimately but with no duty paid here?
I agree that health tourists should be stopped - pay up front or you don't get the treatment. Otherwise people from abroad will be getting better treatment than residents.

jill, Boston, UK

I want all the tax money I´ve paid in for cigarettes over thirty years back in a lump sum so that I can pay for private health care.

I also don´t want to pay my NI contributions any more.

I think that would settle the matter perfectly well, even though private healthcare is expensive.

Fuhrer Brown can´t argue that he can nick my money and change the terms of the contract without asking me.

He can´t claim that this is "democracy" since any country that doesn´t work through proportional representation is not democratic.

No-one should be asked to accept new contractual terms without the right to opt out and get their money back.

It´s called theft in any language except the language of politicians.

A L Sen, London, England

Refused by NHS?

Just throw in the EC card, that will set your local NHS legal department running.

The EC decision 2007 on the possibility for UK citizens to get care outside the UK ( paid by the NHS ) if unreasonably delayed doesn't contain any "ill health" optout... ( Imagine the French and Italians being banned from Wine and the Germans from beer... )

...And I wouldn't be surprised if some text in the newly signed "non-treaty" with EU will come back and bite the NHS in the proverbial rectum.

D Andersson, Hull, UK

More control being introduced by New Labour by means of stealth. They are about to use their divide and rule (communist) tactics to get backing to introduce these rules. You may not smoke or suffer obesity, but just wait they’ll soon be extending the parameters to include other deceases which might affect you or your loved ones.

This is the beginning of the slippery slope to euthanasia, the ultimate gaol of the controlling authorities in this country. Why doesn’t Nu Labour save money by not going to war! Therefore having enough money to provide the health care we pay for already, its not FREE we pay through taxes already. How much money are they about to waste on these Northern Quicksand and Olympic fiascos that could easily support to OUR NHS.

Michael, Sheffield,

NHS treatment is not "free". It is being paid for by taxpayers (that would be us). Will overweight people thus get a tax discount equivalent to the NHS share of the national budget? What about people who get injured while exercising or engaging in extreme sports? Why should I have to pay for THEIR treatment?

Adrian , London, UK

Ooops, now my father has died at the age of 56 after paying into systems all his life that purported to help him. The NHS failed him. And now he's not going to need his state pension.

What's that Gordon? You want £40,000 inheritance tax?

But Gordon, I have a 19-year-old brother at Uni and a sister with two small kids and our mother died at 49 of bowel cancer because of NHS folly. My father wasn't rich and I work for a charity and don't earn much. We really need all the money he has left us.

"But prole, you are middle-class and I want the cash your father worked for."

Okay Gordon, you can have it. I'm sure you'll spend it wisely for the good of the country.

Fake smile from Gordon.

Nice porcelain teeth Gordon.

Thanks Prole.

E Craig, Gourin,

As one person has sensibly remarked this is utterly unenforcable; I am amazed that the Times has not identifed the person behind all this: Anna Coote. She advocated lifestyle change in the Guardian some time ago as a panacea. (For Motor Neurone Disease? For MS?).
C. Byrne. You probably don't realise that your private medical insurance is subsidised by the very existence of the NHS, as, when private medicine goes severely wrong (as in the case of a friend of mine, now close to death) it is the NHS which picks up the pieces.

Dectora, London, UK

Why not leave clinical decisions to doctors? Bit of a radical idea, I know.

GB, London, UK

More control being introduced by New Labour by means of stealth. They are about to use their divide and rule (communist) tactics to get backing to introduce these rules. You may not smoke or suffer obesity, but just wait they’ll soon be extending the parameters to include other deceases which might affect you or your loved ones.

This is the beginning of the slippery slope to euthanasia, the ultimate gaol of the controlling authorities in this country. Why doesn’t Nu Labour save money by not going to war! Therefore having enough money to provide the health care we pay for already, its not FREE we pay through taxes already. How much money are they about to waste on these Northern Quicksand and Olympic fiascos that could easily support to OUR NHS.

Michael, Sheffield,

As someone who grew up with the Tories doing their level best to systematically destroy our manufacturing base, imposing unworkable taxes and then melting down amidst sleaze and scandal from which they still haven't recovered from, I can safely say that I'd rather have them in charge that this shower of incompetents and nannys.

If the NHS will no longer treat me (as an overweight smoker) then why should I be required to pay either national insurance or the approximately 400% mark-up that is imposed on tobacco products?

Rufus Trotman, Oxford, UK

I like many others have served this country (20Yrs) in peace
and war since i was 16Yrs old .
I have payed my taxes all this time so therfor i have earned
and payed for my right to get this service from the NHS.
Wether i am a fat/smoking/drinking person or not.
How can this Stalinist man brown and his bunch of no good
do gooders and others who think like him take this service
away from me, will i get my money back??, will i get my 20Yrs
back??.
NO of course NOT.
Why pay taxes or serve your country??
God help the OAPs of to day as this Gov is out to kill them off
sap with no NHS service,C-Dif,MRSA.
By the time i get to pension it will not matter as there will be no NHS except for the rich and those in high places which i have payed for?.

T Bell, Louth, England

These reforms are only for England! The NHS are evolved matters for the Scots and Welsh. So for Mr Browns constituents this will have no affect. When I origionally heard on the news that Mr Brown was going to improve he NHS I thought they meant he was going to call for a general election. That is the best way to improve it!

Tommy, Southend, England needs a Parliament

WHINING SMOKERS listen up. If you're dumb enough to suck down lungfulls of poison all day long, don't expect others to pay for your cancer treatment.

If someone is refused NHS treatment, they should at least get a partial refund so they can go private.

Betty Fowler, Birmingham,

Lifestyle isn't an exact science. To all you people glorifying in your own crusade pretending that 'OBESITY' & 'SMOKING' is a state that can be controlled think again! Look around you. Probably half the population has a lifestyle you're not going to agree with. It's called the human race. If you want authoritarian state control think back to Stalin, the medieval church, fascist Italy. Pay your taxes with good heart. Government should be fair, constrained and rational not, a machine that controls every aspect of people's lives. Meanwhile certain government ministers have stood accused of claiming unfair expences. Doctors aren't always very good. In fact lots of doctors are lacking. These things need addressing. Once this snowballs there will be no escape until a change of government.

S. Munden, Norfolk, UK

I assume then that if treatment is refused everything that people have paid via Social Security contributions will be reimbursed. If not then it is a case of taking money under false pretences, they having paid for a service which they will not receive and which those who have taken the money have no intention of supplying.
Doctors are there to treat people and while stopping smoking and losing weight are eminently sensible ideas, it is not the business of either the government or doctors to dictate how people live and even less to take their money for nothing at all.

John Murphy, Lauris, France

So patients who "miss or arrive late for hospital appointments" will be penalised. Surely it's time this worked both ways.
Having waited 2 hours past my allocated time to be seen for a hospital appointment recently, with no information, explanation or apology for the delay in the interim, I struggled to prevent myself defacing the proudly displayed sign which proclaimed how quickly patients were being seen!

Fiona, London,

I appreciate smoking and drinking excessively are detrimental but smokers and drinkers pay a significant amount of tax. They should be entitled to health care for conditions that are related to these lifestyle choices.

Sim, London, UK

This supposed Labour Govt is a disgrace and the sooner we have a revolution and hang the likes of Brown, Blears and the rest of their mob the better. Bring back Tories all is forgiven, well maybe.

Simon, London, UK

Again, Stalin has had his say! I am 66 years old, and a moderate smoker. However, I am the correct weight for my height and age. I run a minimum of 5 miles every day, plus walk the dog three times a day, for miles, over open moorland, and was told at a recent medical examination that my cardiovascular system is equal too, or better than many of those half my age. Furthermore, I have paid, over many years, for any NHS treatment I may may require in later years, and I fully expect to receive it if and when required. Additionally, I served my country for 30 years, during which time I was awarded two medals for gallantry, and I will damn well have my treatment if I need it!
McBroon, if you want a war you can have one, and I for one will be in the front line of the opposing side!

Desmond, Barnstaple, Devon

So anyone who uses a bicycle will be refused treatment if they get mown down by a car and refuse to give up cycles in the future?

What about mountaineers? Firefighters?

Wok, Gt.Yarmouth,

This is okay as long as people who have potentially life threatening hobbies are treated the same as they can drain the resources as well.

Also some people are overweight because of medical issues not just because they ate all the pies

Madze, cumbria,

1) There is no contract existing between the NHS and the people it is is supposed to care for, as a contract always requires at least two parties to agree to it. Secondly how about people needing treatment because of sports injuries due to negligence down at the gym? That is worth millions of pounds. So that plan is totally unpolicable and unenforcable, thank god.
When will the British forget about that stiff upperlip thing and start complaining properly and take actions rather than being tossed around and ripped off left right and centre by the goverment and private businesses etc? These things just could not happen in most other European countries - their people just would not allow it. It would be totally unthinkable. The Gordon Browns and other maniacs of this country need to realise that the British people do have a choice and will hold wrongdoers responsible - but since the latter is not happening he might just have another brilliant idea soon.

Iris, Slough, Berks

Britain is turning into s Stalinist based fascist state.

It has more CCTVs than any other country, an ID card backed with one of the the world's largest (and, no doubt, most insecure) databases. Restricted freedom to speak one's mind and now, a social engineering behavioural correction program to tower above anything proposed to date.

Where was this new NHS 'constitution' mentioned in any Labour literature before Brown's announcement? Will we have a vote or a referendum before it is imposed?

Somehow, I doubt it.

Edwin, Bucharest,

A lot of people are saying that overweight people should have just as much of a right to medical treatment on the NHS as people of a healthy weight.

This is a fair thing to say when we consider diseases or injuries that have nothing to do with body weight. However, to the people who think that it is unreasonable for overweight people to pay taxes towards the NHS and then not be treated, have you considered that the rest of the population who are of a healthy weight who contribute towards a heart bypass for someone who is overweight?

With diseases related to smoking or obesity, it is simply a case of action and consequence. I don't think that the rest of the country should suffer higher taxes and poorer service from the NHS to compensate for the choices that other people have made in their individual lifestyles.

Besides, if they hadn't been smoking or over-eating and under-exercising in the first place, they would not need treatment.

Tim, London, UK

I hope if they decide on this course of action, they also have a plan on how to refund tax money the uncared for patient was extorted of.
Rick, North Yorks

Rick, Harrogate, North Yorkshire

Free healthcare only for those who show a basic level of respect for their bodies and care for their health. Sounds good to me!

Gemma, Leighton Buzzard, UK

"setting out the terms under which patients are eligible for free health care" - how about giving away nearly half your salary in all taxes and national insurance combined...

Alex, Aber, UK

The 'Nanny State' in all it's glory.

So, that buffoon Brown has decided that we'll only get treatment from the NHS if we have a lifestyle that is approved by the government of the day!

If he really wants to restrict access to the NHS he should at least have the 'bottle' to say so. But then again we all know that this is something he lacks.

Kevin Baily, Feltham, Middx., UK

This is wrong. If one pays into the NHS then one should be entitled to healthcare. If the NHS is to be allowed to opt out of treating us then will we be able to opt out of paying into it? I think not.

I think we should make the health service private, socialism doesn't work.

Christian Barber, staffs, UK

Things are not black and white. I have two daughters, one slim one overweight. One has more of my slim genes one has more of her father's overweight genes. Both eat the same. Should one be treated and one not. During the course of their lives the heavier one has been much the healthier needing less medical care.
Of course people should not miss hospital or doctors appointments but tell that to Royal Mail when they fail to deliver the letter that states the date and time of the appointment. There is no easy answer.

barbara, north east,

I thought the Labour party was for the working man.. I hope the NHS does not turn intoa US based insurance policy system where only the rich get health care!!

Harry Cope, London, Uk

NHS treatment is not free, we all pay for it, and this violates the Declaration of Geneva doesn't it?

Talk about a slippery slope...

Tony, Hull,

I would suggest Gordon Brown is over weight. Does that mean he will not be able to use the NHS?

OH sorry he has private care, all is solved then!

The NHS was created to improve the health of the nation, so what will this move do to the nation?

More crap from a crap Labour party.

Joe, Europe, Never in the UK

In other words, the advice from the NHS is:
'if you are ill, don't ring us we'll ring you'!

Get this useless Government out or accept it - the Country is finished for ever!

Maurice, Northumberland, , The Former UK.

The time when you are held to ransom by the NHS for being a smoker is in sight.

Read my lips.

Steve , Coleshill, UK

Will this new NHS "Constitution" also require binge drinkers and drug addicts to change THEIR lifestyles before they can receive treatment? In return will the NHS also agree to provide safer and more hygenic health care with properly trained doctors and nurses who actually understand the importance of washing their hands?

Cindy, Newcastle, UK

Totally unenforceable, given that we already cant effectively police health tourism. Will fall at the first hurdle, the courts and European Court of human rights. Time for a not for profit insurance based health care system, like much of Europe, which is enforceable, higher premiums for smokers, the obese and drug and alcohol abusers, as per current life insurance policies. Then people have a choice but will be motivated by substantially higher costs (or no insurance) to change their lifestyle. But this will fail as this government is wedded to 'equality',which in many parts of the health service is interpreted as lowering standards to the lowest common denominator. So the dogma of equality will allow the status quo

GP, Chichester,

Given that the NHS more resembles a franchised version of Auschwitz at the moment anything that would keep one out of these ghastly places is more than likely to extend one's life.

I speak from personal experience as one who has had a relative contract C. Diff. and have the hospital lie and lie about what was wrong with him, though they clearly knew.

fnusnuank, Gen., Switz.

So, will I have the choice of paying NI contributions or not?

J Sutherland, St Andrews, Fife

does that mean overweight politicians like fatty brown +other mps who are fat will be refused treatment?

pau connolly, potters bar,

Tax revenue from Smokers generates between £7 billion and £10 billion per year.
Smoking related diseases costs the NHS £1.5 billion per year.

If all the smokers gave up smoking, where would the Government find that £10 billion shortfall?

Phill, The Wirral, England

You as an individual will have no means of enforcing NHS compliance with a new 'contract' between yourself and it. On the other hand it will give carte blanche to those hospitals, managers and professionals who wish, to meet their own targets and values by refusing you care.
You will have no means of withdrawing from compulsory taxation to fund the NHS but the NHS will have a series of rights to withdraw its care from you

Colin Downes-Grainger, London, UK

Do we need to give up smoking and loose weight or is there a choice. I'm also interested as to whether binge drinkers will have to stop bingeing and whether over stressed business people likely to give themselves a heart attack have to stop working.. How about people that drive car? Will they be treated if the have accident because it was caused by driving... And what about a smoking, overweight, highly stressed business person that drives a car?

This is just so much communist nonsense..

DickW, Aberdeen, Scotland

I agree that people who miss appointments and waste the time of the NHS should be fined. However smokers should be picked up in a stretch limo and given luxury suites when they fall ill considering that the amount of taxes that they pay each year would keep the NHS running five times over.

Mark Lintott, Bath, UK

If I cannot avail myself of the service, why should I pay for it?

I would prefer to rely on my private medical service anyway.

C Byrne, Pinner, UK