Free Download

Download 'Too Hot', an exclusive Specials track from iTunes

Navigation - link to other main sections from here

From The Times

November 14, 2008

Brown’s organ donor plan is rejected by scientists

David Rose and Francis Elliott

Plans by Gordon Brown to make everyone a potential organ donor unless they actively “opt out” will be roundly rejected by the Government’s official advisory body next week, The Times has learnt.

The Prime Minister and the Chief Medical Officer for England believe that thousands of lives could be saved by introducing “presumed consent” – where everyone is automatically placed on the organ donor register unless they or their family object.

However, an official review by the Organ Donation Taskforce will conclude next week that a change in the law is not warranted, despite support for the move among doctors and some patient groups.

It will place the Prime Minister at odds with advisers from the medical and scientific community for the second time in a year, after the decision to reclassify cannabis as a “class B” drug, in defiance of recommendations from the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs.

Mr Brown has argued previously that presumed consent, already used in Spain and other countries, could help to “close the aching gap between the potential benefits of transplant surgery in the UK and the limits imposed by our current system of consent”.

More than 8,000 people are on the waiting list for donor organs in Britain, but only 3,000 transplants are carried out each year.

But the taskforce, an expert working group of healthcare professionals, lawyers and ethicists set up to look at ways to increase the number of organ donations, is understood to believe that an opt-out system would do little to boost the number of life-saving transplants. It is expected to say such a move would create practical problems for the NHS and risk a potential backlash among the public.

Last night a senior Whitehall source told The Times: “It’s fair to say this report is not helpful to the case for a change in the law to presumed consent.”

The recommendations are not binding on the Government and ministers may still bring legislation forward. Reports, page 15

stop and think for a second guys, before your suckered into something. Whats to stop them selling organs abroad? If there is a problem getting people on the list, the way to solve it isnt presumed consent! thats sick totalitarianism if ever ive seen it!! state cannot assume they own a body!!!!!!!!

g, england,

There seems to be a lot of superstition around this issue. Some posters think that organs are taken before a person is fully brain-dead. Nonsense. The person is stone dead, but for a limited period the organs are still fresh and usable. Have you never seen a chicken twitch after its head is cut off?

J, Canterbury, UK

If you have not opted-out then it is still your familys decision once you have died, so you are not 'property of the state'. Anyone who is choosing to come off the donor list simply because of the change in policy is completely missing the point - this isnt about politics!!

Melanie, London,

Who are the Government’s official advisory body and I wonder if they had a loved one awaiting a transplant, would they come to the same conclusion ?

M Heneghan, Dublin,

Would all consenting adults then have to carry a, "I Don't Consent", card if they didn't want to donate? And how many of these cards would then be "mislaid" in A and E in the scramble for the body parts. A more rigourous advertised Doner Card system would probably be more acceptable to the public.

Eric, Brentwood,

When we're dead we clearly have no need for our organs anyway. And it isn't as if the Government is threatening to rip our organs out while we're still alive. If the Government wants to use our organs when we no longer need them then why not?

Mel, Daventry, England

Of course to opt out you would have to fill in a lot of details and pay a large fee - it is all about raising revenue for the government.

The increase in civil servants would require the raising of more taxes impoverish the country even more but they think it would result in more votes for Labour

david, Essex, UK

Brown has my money and now I am debt. Now he wants my body. This is immoral and Brown plan can and will be abused, will he be accountable. I THINK NOT!

steve tea, manchester, cheshire

I am saddened by the comments on here. Have some sympathy for those who need organ donation. Opt out if you want, it's your choice, although frankly it is petty to do so because of a government decision. The sad fact is that many people say they would donate and don't fill the forms in.

hannah , singapore,

This is like sending crashed cars to be broken up by default, and their used parts listed on ebay to the highest bidder.

Scrapheap challenge, anyone?

I am glad the scientists don't agree with Brown, as neither do I.

Jamie, London, UK

Another database they'll lose.

David Masu, Zürich, Switzerland

The problem with signing up to give consent for donation of your organs; is that there is a stigma attached to the whole issue.
There is always the worry, as stupid as it sounds, that if you sign up - you basically tempt fate.
I suppose having the presumed consent is a good way to take off the worry

Jennifer, Luton, UK

If the government brings in presumed consent then I would immediately opt out and destroy my donor card. People die all the time from horrible illnesses, for which I'm sorry, but that doesn't mean the government should prey on those who don't get around to making a choice. That would be immoral.

Martin, Maidenhead, uK

Gordon presmes quite a lot, doesn't he? Presumably, he'll get round to the promised vote on the Lisbon Treaty and a few other 'details' of democracy. Presumptious isn't in it!

Mike, Macau,

I would have liked to donate, but I have MS, which means I can't even give blood!!!
So, what of us? No one would want my organs. And would no doubt sue, if they got them!!!!!!

CfC, London,

any bodys not used for medical transplants can be used in scientific reseach and learning. this would increase the skill of new doctors and further knowledge. the reports seems to against the interest of the writers and their peers.
your body is far more useful in a lab than in a ditch!

tomas, manchester,

I have carried a donor card since they were first introduced, but it is not the government's place to presume ownership of my body and if it does so I shall opt out.

Anna, Woking, UK

Great move. Presumed consent to me sounds like the general population being seen as state-owned spare parts. Organ donation is a noble thing, but not something everyone wants to participate in - for various reasons. What happens when there is a mix-up and someone who opted out is "salvaged"?

Sol, London, England

Our elderley are currently dying before their time, with the help of drugs they do not need. Our poor and disabled need to keep both their lives and their organs, until the end of their natural lifespan.

Charlotte Peters Rock, Knutsford, England

All this rubbish about 'my body is not the states to harvest'. Dont be so selfish, the only reason most of you object is because the decision has been taken out of your hands. when i'm dead i no longer need my body if it helps someone else live a fuller life then get it while its hot.

Simon, cardiff, wales

My husband is waiting for a liver he is 47 years old and is critically ill. If someone you loved needed an organ would you accept it, if the answer is yes then how can you object to any move that would increase the number of donors. People do not get around to registering although they mean to.

phil sweeney, LUTON, England

It's only human nature to say that since organs can only be 'harvested' from living bodies when ones loved ones are in the care of the medical professionals we need be 100% sure that the doctors are focused on their recovery and not engaged in an either/or calculation with regard to another patient.

P Turner, Orpington, UK

So much confusion & hyperbole around this. In presumed consent next of kin can still decline to donate organs, it just becomes more of the norm. I dread to think how much the NHS spends trying to recruit donors. If anyone would like to donate but hasn't got round to it visit www.uktransplant.org.uk

Fleur Stewart, London, UK

The term 'donation' means to GIVE, not to TAKE. There is a very great difference between the two. It is not anyone's place to TAKE what is not rightfully theirs. Where are our supposed 'human rights'? Why not simply ASK each person every year whether they wish to donate or not! Manners cost nothing!

Greg B., Eastbourne,, England.

The issue is that organs are only useful if they are removed from a body that is alive. Once a body has ceased living then the organs are useless.

That means forced removal from patients still living.

Organ farming and thin end of the wedge is about right, false diagnosis and for profit sales.

James Midein, Burnley,

In response to what Nicholas said I believe that he is right .Therefore I think that Organ Donor Cards should be much more noticeable and easily available in many places..............not just tucked into corners of surgeries and chemist shops. . They should be brought to the attention of people .

ML, gerrards cross,

Strikes me this is the only sensible thing Ive heard come out of this mans mouth. I cannot understand why people want to bury burn or destroy what are perfectly useable organs that could save someones life.Presumed Consent is essential, and so say the transplant organisations. Be a Donor

BG

Bill Glanvill, Horsham, England

Having read the rest of the comments, Im astonished by the number of existing registered donors who say that if compulsory donation becomes law they will opt out. It makes me wonder why they offered in the first place.

Bill Glanvill, Horsham, England

1) The government doesn't own your body

2) NHS will get sued for taking organs against actual consent

3) For those who say "it'll do good, you should agree to it", so do all of the following
-tracking of all your movements
-all phone/email recorded
-all person-to-person contacts recorded

Clive, Surrey,

What are people planning on doing with their organs once they are dead? Letting them rot away or be burnt; how useful. It seems rather selfish to deny help to other people when they need really need it.

Alex, Cardiff,

To the people outraged that the Government is deciding for them regarding organ donation, this would only be true if they made donation mandatory, or if they made it too hard to opt out. Under the opt-out scheme we all still have a choice, but hopefully, this way there will be many more lives saved.

James McInerney, New Malden,

I never understand why opponents to presumed consent think they need their organs after they're dead. Why can't a poor dying person somewhere escape the same fate as you and benefit from something you're not using any more?

Maybe they're scared people will find out quite how black their heart is!

Daniel Ritchie, Wirral, UK

Put £1bn into Stem Cell Research so we can regrow our own organs, the idea is proven. You can't expect private companies to pay for it all. America went to the moon, we can create a better future and specialise on the UK's undoubted Research Strengths. Does Brown have the vision or will China do it?

Chris, London,

I seriously hope that all those opposing Gordon Brown never know the agony of waiting for a compatible organ to help restore their life to near normality. As for Mr Thompson .....words fail me!!!!

SUSAN E WOOFFITT, CHESHIRE,

Organ donation does not "save lives" because everyone dies. All it does at best is postpone death. Introduce presumed consent and I for one will opt out immediately. When organs are harvested the donor isn't actually dead when they're wheeled away, and that's traumatic to the relatives watching.

Chris, Derby,

To the people currently signed up to the donor register, who would REMOVE themselves if presumed consent was introduced: so basically you are saying you would rather let your organs (that you are currently happy to donate) go to waste, just to spite the government? That's ridiculous.

Rod, Waikanae, New Zealand

I have liver cancer and my only hope is a liver transplant. There is a huge waiting list. All I can say is that if you are in this situation and I would not wish it on anyone your views would change dramatically. so many potential life saving organs are 'wasted' every year because of our system.

Stephen Hernandez, Ramsgate, Kent

I presume that people who opt out would therefore opt out of receiving a life saving transplant should they need one.

Stephen Hernandez, Ramsgate, Kent

We should do something similar at the next election . Those who don't vote at all should be thought to have 'opted out ' of Broons Britain and their votes should be spread amongst or awarded to the main opposition in that area . Seems like a fair enough idea to me ...

Benzo, Nr Chelmsford,

Gordon should ignore this silly report. The case for opt out is overwhelming. Those on this thread who see the question in terms of political posturing should also be ashamed of themselves. It's not about making you feel good about being a volunteer, it's about saving and enhancing people's lives

Wade, Croydon, UK

By choosing to life in a country, you "opt-in" to live by the laws of that country. In a democracy, you have the chance to free, open elections. What the snivelling gits, who don't like the laws of 'their' country, fail to understand, is that they can go and live elsewhere without healthcare;

de Symons, Le Havre,

I have a donor card, but if this is forced through I will register my objection and insist my name is removed.

I gifted my organs.

They are not and never will be, the property of the State.

Something Brown fails to understand

Jane, Cambridge,

My body belongs to me in life. In death it is not for a bunch of organ thieves to harvest unless I consent before dying. It is not for the rest of the population to decide either, whether you are well or whether you are dying my body is not yours to make presumtions about. Get your head around that.

David Smith, Stourbridge, UK

Principally, is good to promote organ donation - however, it is wrong for the State to dictate to the people. That is the plan to assume unless otherwise stated. Is better to have a donor card issued to those wishing to donate. Donors may from time to time opt out from wanting to donate.

dominik, london,

I signed up as an organ donor last year, after considerable thought on the moral issues. If 'presumed consent' becomes the law I will opt out.

My body is not the property of the state.

Tony F, Macclesfield,

This would save lives. If people feel that strongly against it then they can opt out so what's the problem? My 19 year old cousin died because a heart and lung donor could not be found in time and I miss him terribly.

Jessica, Kent,

As a medic I do understand both sides of the argument, but I have observed that the majority of my patients are more than happy for their organs to be donated in order to improve the quality of life for others (which it can do considerably, e.g. dialysis pts)- yet do not have an organ donor card.

Nicholas, London,

When you are born you get barcoded and your name is put into hundreds of government databases. During your lifetime you will have to live as a state dependent. When you die (or close) they process your body and take your organs without explicit consent. Ghoulish nightmare? Yes, Britain 2008.

James David, Newcastle,

presumed consent = organ farming. People will be farmed for organs while still alive. A disgusting idea. My body is mine and I don't want my organs going to a criminal or terrorist thank you very much

JF, London,

We should have system where any adult who does not opt in for donation of their organs in the event of their death, should go to the back of the queue in life. This seems fair, and I suspect would lead to quite an increase in available organs. It would also keep the religious/superstitious happy (?)

Andrew, London, UK

This also ties into keeping a 'national database', with the required ID card too. I carry a donor card now, but I would remove myself from the 'presumed consent' list, as it's *my* decision to carry the card, not the governments to decide for me!

Arthur, Newcastle,

The state wouldn't 'own' your body; rather a person in need would end up owning one of your organs once you'd finished with it. And that's still only if you want to. The opt-out proposal addresses people's laziness, not the state's desire for control.

Emma, Munich, Germany

When you have to sit and watch your Dad dying because he needs a Liver transplant your views would change, being told you only have 2 weeks to live is hard to take luckily for us my Dad got his on two occasions, some family's are not so lucky. just think about it?

Paul Bundy, Stafford,

In stating the obvious: this is a sensitive issue. Organ donation is a ‘gift’ to someone. Hence, nobody has the ‘right’ to an organ. As for the argument that transplantations safe lives – they prolonged lives and only IF the transplantation was successful. There are differences here...

Susanne, Aberdeen,

I am currently on the Organ Donor register because I choose to be. If you make this presumed consent then I will remove my name. You have no right to assume anything about someones wishes and the potential for abuse is massive. Why not just show people the benefits and LET THEM DECIDE !

Tony, Cardiff,

Why is it that some people can't see the wood for the trees, choosing to pour scorn on Brown. For goodness sake concentrate on the real issue, lack of donors, an issue that is further exacerbated by relatives who ignore the wishes of donors when it comes to the crunch. Apathy is rife.

Stewart, Lot, France

you've got to love the right - always willing to take, never willing to give. maybe they'd be happier if gordon simply phrased the law to say that you're not allowed to receive an organ unless you've been signed up to donate one for at least two years. that would keep things fair.

Ian W, Norwich,

When you die your organs can either feed worms or help others to carry on living. To me, there is simply no contest. If anyone feels uncomfortable/have religious reasons etc about donating their organs to help others then they can ask not to be included.

Finn, Tunbridge Wells,

If "presumed consent" is introduced, will the government guarantuee that all donoations are used in the UK only, and are not sold to weathy foreigners.

Gareth, Kent,

Actually, there is a much more effective way to increase donor rates, and that is to open up a market for donating your organs after death. I don't understand the attitude that someone else deserves my bits and pieces after I die. I think my family should be able to benefit from any value they have.

John Thompson, Reading, Berkshire

If it's true that over 70% of people favour donation but only 20% sign up does that mean that the other 50% prefer to donate your organs ?

CeeVee, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

So in Gordon's ideal world, the human body is the state's to harvest, in the name of the 'common good'. Unless of course the poor unfortunate citizen has the foresight to grovel for exemption to his political masters.

The audacity of the left never ceases to amaze me.

Jon W, Oxford,

Prime Minister Brown is way off base. Many U.S. consumer protection laws prohibit "opt outs" because of the potential for abuse. Citizens should be asked to affirmatively state whether they want to be a donor. Mr. Brown = government overreach.

Bill , Madison, Wisconsin, USA

Good for them. If they had made it presumed consent, I was going to tear up my donor card.

Paul Downes, Milton Keynes, UK

Actually 10 in ten people waiting for a heart transplant will die. Death is the unpleasant fact about life. I'm more concerned with a government prepared to 'presume' consent. Thin end of the wedge?

Roger Lorton, Nongprue, Thailand

The 5 countries with the highest donation rates all have presumed consent, but Britain which is 15th doesnt need it?

Thousands will die because of these scientists and their crackpot plan

geoff, Dewsbury,

"Backlash among the public"? Rubbish. Backlash from pro-life and religious groups, more like. What a craven report! Gordon should ignore it, and legislate for presumed consent. I already carry a donor card, but even if I didn't, anyone who can benefit from them will be welcome to my bits and pieces.

JF, Canterbury, UK

The number of patients waiting for an organ is increasing ever year but the number of donors is not keeping up. Consequently the latest figures show that there are 7,655 patients waiting for a transplant. One in ten people waiting for a heart transplant will die.