Its all down to smells,clothes and money really.

Satura Lanx, Joburg, RSA

To Rose from Kuwait,

What a colourful turn of phrase you use to describe these instructers, It made me laugh, no really, here have cookie.

Excuse my somewhat condescending tone but to be honest i find your opinion of these men and woman somewhat crass and in fact laughable. Perhaps i should heed my own advice about not judging to quickly, But the injustness of what i say to you now and the reaction i hope it conjured from the depths of your no doubt intelligent mind should perhaps help you realise how rash you are to give such a opinionated (to which you are of course allowed) description of men you do not know.

Having done some reasearch and looked at what is actually taught by these good chaps is in fact they some to be on the same wavelength as you. Injecting Confidence into men.

Mr Duff, Edinburgh,

To Aurther in Watford

And were dear sir have you came to the conclusion that condemning these men and woman (yes since i seen the article in the paper there was a female instructer) and spouting facile nonesense about them going out 7 days a week,is a good thing? Or to be more accurate even true?

Close inspection of this article has revealed to my good self that no such time frame was even mentioned, a conjuration of your own mind i assume, no?

Its interesting that those who choose to condemn this so quickly are all babbling on about money? Charging these poor lads money! Heavens above MONEY!! why instead of taking charge of there life it could be spent on alchohol, or flowers or clothes for woman! Yes, fantastic ply them with gifts and narcotics instead of learning social skills, since the beat downs and bullying that crushed your spirit all but eradicated there confidence and thus there ability to relate to woman the found attracting because a crippling fear hindered them.

Mr Duff, Edinburgh,

Regardless of how colourful PUA’s techniques are, it seems to me that "any" group of men that dedicate 7 days a week to go to clubs, bars, and discos to pick up women will do so in the end. The main reason being: there they’ll find plenty of girls who are ‘easy party girls’, or needy and looking for some emotional validation. If they came across normal girls, they wouldn’t know how to relate to them.

Arthur, Watford, Herts

I don't know whether to laugh at or feel sorry for these guys. But, if it's any help, an enduring truth - girls are always attracted by a fat wallet, no matter what your age or looks.

David Russell, Sheffield, South Yorkshire

The amusing thing is that the *least* attractive thing a guy can do is to be discovered to have learned 'pick-up techniques' at a class.

But hey, some of us us women kind of want to be picked up too, and how else are they going to get good at it? It's hardly date rape, learning a bit of charm in a bid to avoid loneliness. Goodness knows some perfectly nice guys could use extra charm.

Pav, London,

They had a TV program on here called "The Pick-Up Artist".

While some of the advice for the bunch of losers who were the "students" was sensible, basic psychology and certainly enabled most of them to feel better about themselves, there was one major flaw in the whole process. And that was the self-styled "Master Pick-Up Artist" who ran the whole show. He called himself "Mystery", and took himself and the so-called science of pick-up so seriously it was hard not laugh. He looked like a complete plonker with his sub-Jamiroquai furry hat and mystic jewelry. If he walked into any British pub dressed like that and using his corny routine, he would be ridiculed and laughed out of town.

The first and most important rule to picking up women - just in case anyone is interested - is to be amusing and appear not to give damn. Everything else will follow.

John Bard, Los Angeles, USA

Some fatherly advice, from my father to me, and from me to any of you who care:

Boys, you can only chase a girl until she catches you.

I find this article extremely sad. There's a lot of loneliness out there, and these vultures are exploiting it for cash. Bars and nightclubs are the breeding grounds for insecurity.

Rather than wasting time, energy (and yes money) on that, dive into a hobby that'll last a lifetime. From the people you meet there, look for a partner to last a lifetime. Don't worry about what you'll say, you met on common ground already.

Whether it's gardening, photography, astronomy, molecular biology, whatever. Have something bigger than your "personality" to unite you. (I'd suggest God, but that's so very un-PC, these days.)

One other suggestion. Consider a life as a 'soloist.' Look for ways to be happy in it. While you're enjoying that Mr/Ms. Right may just happen along.

Worked for me!

Regards,

Dan'l
(happily married 9 yrs)

Dan'l, Portland, US/Maine

To all the critics of these courses out there I suggest you go to any newsagent and pick up Cosmo or the like and you will see that these magazines aimed at women are full of advice and techniques for finding "Mr Right". The Game only levels up the playing field. Trust me, I have seen clear and compelling evidence that this works when applied correctly. What the student uses his new found skills for is a moral choice for him. But whatever he does the typical male approach of buying a woman alcohol until she jumps into bed with him is far more morally questionable than using these techniques.

Marcus, London,

What an interesting read, I am amazed to think that there is nowadays a money making opportunity in
selling the simple idea of self confidence.Never having had the benefit of being tall, or hansome, I just had to learn the art of good conversation, which in itself will be better if you are well and widely read. However , I do feel the great days of ' ballroom dancing' did mean that quite literally you could walk across the floor and talk to your personal choice, it was expected.

DAVID VINTER, Louth, Lincs,, UK.

If the article describes accurately what the average British male is like, no wonder it took 37 years to find one intelligent enough to ask me to marry him ...

Jane, Oxford, England

Classes in how to be a sex case and general pain in the backside? Whatever next!

Katy, London, UK

for you saddo's out there-stop looking at computers -go and interact with people- have a shower -get a white tee shirt a pair of levis-a convertible Mustang (or any alternative)-a CD by Ry Cooder - turn on 'girls are crazy about automobiles'- clean your teeth and smile - and go out and practice speaking to people instead of texting and entering chat rooms.
Always smile and be well mannered and polite to ALL the fair sex- this technique was taught to me as a young man and has not failed for the last 40 years -important thing is to speak to people in the flesh-not images-go try it-no fee required :-))
mustang is optional !!!

Dr.Keith Skelton, Dubai, UAE

Attract women.. but the right sort of women?

ian, Scotland, UK

Hows this for a " movie moment"

Woman standing in a Glasgow bar , suddenly shouts out
"Hauw you ..Get yer haun oot ma knickers ... Naw no you ! "

Glasgow has the classiest burds on the planet !

Caig, Glasgow, Scotland

Face up to it guys, if you're alpha male then the females will be chatting you up. And as for all women not bothering about a guy's looks? Nonsense, who wants ugly children!

Collette Whitehead, Edinburgh,

White bread has been around for hundreds of years, it was just more expensive. What a nutter!

Jim, Camberley, UK

'The Game' book was my 'beach read' a couple of years ago. Entertaining stuff; I enjoyed it, and even recognised a couple of techniques I used to use myself, in my dim and distant youth. A word of caution for the men seeking not just sex, but that one special person, and... 'love'. Neil Strauss points out about half way through the book that his students should be aware that the very women that they'll bed using these techniques, will certainly end up in the next guy's bed that comes along and uses the same stuff on them a couple of days later.
Just like hoola hoops, chewing gum and Rap, it was only a matter of time before courses such as these were set up in the UK to take money off gullible and desperate young men.
Sad.

Henry Claxton, Bradford,

QUOTE

“Our bodies are like outmoded operating systems,” says Mist. “We are Windows 98 when we should be on Vista.”

END QUOTE

Surely an Apple would be a better choice given its success in the Garden of Eden and the ongoing pleasure it gives to millions today.

Bob B, Verulanium, The Western Provinces

"What's good for the goose is good for the gander"! Or perhaps "What's good for the gander is good for the goose"?

Anne Wotana Kaye, London, England

Thank you Mr. Klein, your parable clearly explains the point that most of us miss.

Jose, Valencia,

Yep, there are a lotta slutty stupid women in America. Doesn't take a genious to sleep with a bunch, plenty of cheesey male sluts have slept with hundreds of them here. Blah, no wonder eighty percent of us have herpes.

chris , flagstaff, AZ

Its nice to see both ends of the this discussion, some very strong opinions, sadly some of which nothing more than an ill informed ego saturated rants on something of which the subject matter is clearly their only point of refererence. On the other hand some well thought out and respected answers.

Personally?

It seems this is another self improvement movement i have to agree. People seem to jump onto the fact that this is all about "Men getting laid" which while surely involved does not merely mean that is the only objective no? I look around me and the people i know and can name several men who if were so inclined would benefit from a sense of self respect not only for themsevles but for there dealings with woman.

Are you truly happy with your success with the opposite sex? Beyond the ego, beyond the veil you create for yourself?

Have you never looked at someone? And said i WISH i could have them?

Mr Duff, Edinburgh, Scotland

Life in the real world is evolution in progress. Ninety percent of male seals die virgins. The remaining ten percent have very amorous lives despite being highly unattractive and agressive.

What goes for the animal world seems to apply to our species.

A few men (very few of whom are short or fat) have the skills to attract large numbers of women. Most don't. Maybe it is a skill that can be taught. It would be unfair to condemn those who pay for these courses for trying to better their mating prospects.

paul, hobart, australia

What ever happened to 'all you need is love'?

James Cornish, Lancaster, Lancashire

<<I would never just walk over to a woman and try to talk to her. I would wait and discretely try to detect which women were stealing glances at me. When I was sure that someone was obviously interested in me, only then would I go over and strike up a conversation.>> - BrandonFox

BrandonFox, I generally agree; however, realize that very few women will look at you if you're not attractive, and you're not attractive when you're shy and inexperienced. That's where the pickup/seduction school comes in: it allows you to break the cycle of failure and jump on the success train, from where the snowball effect kicks in.

ESB, Washington, DC

This is proof that gullible, insecure men will hand over cash to con-artists.

The poor lad who is on his third course is quite a sad case.

Eventually, these people will grow up enough that interacting with women will allow them to form a relationship - and if they are still obsessed with one night stands, there are still enough women around for that!

Richard The First, Winchester, Hants

Mist is quoted as saying “Everything a girl does, assume attraction”. This is so, so, wrong - and dangerous advice. Please don't mistake courtesy (e.g. a smile, a "hello") as anything other than it is. As for Gem who describes himself as "clinically obese” and suggesting that his success with women disproves the idea that looks are important to women - he is sadly deluded.

Rachel, Bournemouth, UK

MARK KLEIN, M.D., OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA- I vote you ambassador of Males to Females.
I read a book a while back that addresses everything you and the author, Will, have mentioned. It was highly cynical, very observant and brutally in funny places. I didn't agree with the ruthless attitude (maybe bravado) as there are many innate qualities I admire in women, and one shouldn't take advantage of people as only intellectual and moral plebs do this but, one point I had to agree on is that trying to find a good mate and break through what might at best be called obsessive scrutiny or, what some others would call pathology, is infuriating for any right side thinker! Feminism and complicit weak minded men have created several monstrous generations of women and feeble minded, sex obsessed idiot men unable to stop themselves from fawning. Together they've crafted a fairly repugnant mating ritual and "pick up" artistry is simply a part of that.

Richard, DALLAS, USA

Mark's got it right...the best thing a guy can do is appear uninterested. I do enjoy the cockiness that The Game gives people and, depending on the guy, it can be a really good laugh when a guy tries to game you, however, the only part of The Game that actually matters is gaining confidence and learning that girls can be talked to.

The Game employs basic psychology and basic NLP, but you don't need The Game to learn these things, and ultimately all most of these sad guys need is to believe in themselves.

Leah Harmon, Edinburgh,

There are players and then there are players, some guys will say anything to get laid and some women are daft enough to believe them.

Sometimes you get the partner you deserve rather than the one you want.

Keith. Nichol, London, UK

To Clare in Sheffield--Yes, I'm single and intend to remain so. For me senior happiness is having enough money to pursue my many interests, a first class laundry service, a house cleaner who isn't a chatterbox, the ability to cook for myself, and no girlfriends.

Paid my dues in spades. Was married twice for a total of 32-33 years and raised 4 successful children. Got out with my dough and sunny disposition intact.

Did the marriage shtick because the culture of my youth expected it. Women blew a very good deal wanting it all. Wasn't enough for them for hubbie to support them in style in a fancy suburb so they could shop till they dropped and then collect his goods to lavish on a younger lover after he died young from overwork.

Women don't have a clue as to what will make them happy.

More specifically, Clare, haven't been on a date in years so you'll have to look elsewhere. Good Luck!

MARK KLEIN, M.D., OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA

My wife (who is universally considered to be "hot") did not know about this book The Game. But I did from a GQ article. She was hit on the other week by a guy whilst out with friends who when she described it to me clearly was using the script - "negging", mind-games, breaking down physical barriers etc. She described him as "sad", "pathetic", "ridiculous" and ultimately "really, really irritating" and got away as soon as she politely could (he was a "friend of a friend"). Techniques may work but ultimately you either have what the girl is looking for or you do not.

john, Hong Kong,

Ah, yes, I remember Ross Jeffries. He got the short end of an argument with a fellow (not me) on the Net, and finished by threatening the man's children. Charming guy, nice to see he still have the same sterling character.

Gary Fischer, Los Angeles, CA

The only "stud" I ever knew was a lady's one night stand. I.e. they had him.

John Camus, Colchester,

Mark Klein - are you single? Call me!

clare, Sheffield, England

When I was a teenager, my father told me that no man can pick-up a woman who is not first interested in him. He said to think of the birds: the male has beautiful plumage and struts and preens in front ot the female. If she's interested, she let's him know she's open to his approach. I practised what he taught me. When I would go to a club -- dressed well and looking good -- I would never just walk over to a woman and try to talk to her. I would wait and discretely try to detect which women were stealing glances at me. When I was sure that someone was obviously interested in me, only then would I go over and strike up a conversation. It always worked. Note that this technique might mean you're not going home with the most beautiful woman in the place, but then it's unlikely you would had you tried hitting on her.

BrandonFox, Worcester, Massachusetts, USA

One evening two smartly dressed but ordinary looking dudes were standing in a local town centre car park spraying themselves from top to toe with some kind of aerosole. Was it anti-insect stuff?. I gathered it was female-attractant, eg, phermone spray. Is this on the agenda?. Does it help?.

Chaz Dooley, Exeter, UK

What a ghastly bunch of '80s yuppie hangovers the 'instructors' sound - arrogant , vain, humourless poseurs. Gareth sounds just fine, he just needs confidence in himself. The sexiest men I've met are ones who make you laugh out loud, who don't see women as 'conquests' or see themselves as sex on legs. Unless you're wild about a guy to start with, the cheesy "I love your coat/eyes" lines followed by the truly cringeworthy “But I want to know if your personality would match mine” are definitely NOT going to make him desirable - it sounds like the tacky, learnt-by-rote pick-up line it is. If they think that that's what women see as a "movie moment", they seriously underestimate women's wit.

I really feel for guys like Gareth paying money to these con artists - it's a lot cheaper to smile, relax, be genuine and remind yourself that, even if you're not 'successful', you can make a friend - and the more women you know, the more can introduce you to female friends of theirs, etc.

Rose Qishta, Salwa, Kuwait

Yeah, learning for how to get better with women is for losers.

Real men and women get drunk of their face and wake up with eachother the next day.. not even remembering eachothers names.

Jeremiah1974, London,

With so few straight available employed men who bathe daily and wear clean clothes nowadays amazing so many men have problems picking up girls.

Here's the advice I gave to my youngest son in adolescence when he asked me about picking up girls. Explained what I did with considerable success when I still cared about chasing women as a parable I concocted entitled "The Lions and the Antelopes". The lions are really antelopes in disguise except they don't know it. The antelopes know they are really lions. Hence I told the youngster no point in hunting women. Better to stand still so you're easier to catch. Seemed dubious at first but several months later reported with a big smile I was dead on right!

MARK KLEIN, M.D., OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA