I am a gay male and if it was a choice I would change right here and now. Where I live Being Gay is not considered to be acceptable. I read the phases described and completely disagree with them I did play sex games when I was younger but that didnt determine who I was it only happened when I was 17

Johan Potgieter, Rustenburg, South Africa

I think this guy may have looked into the whole gay thing scientifically. There isn't an explanation for it, it just happens.

Pierre, Rouen,

I'm gay and I do think that Morris has a good point as what he has described applies to me. As a young boy I did play sexual games with other boys of my age and remember feeling aroused by them. It has also crossed my mind that in my childhood I was surrounded by more female figures than male ones.

James, Hull, United Kingdom

Heterosexual animals? Have a look at zoo overloon. Gay males are more inventive and academic? Scientifically correct: "males calling themselves gay". Maybe academics are more likely to realize their gay orientation. Gays as a side-product of evolution of mankind? An aberration? Where are the data?

Mark, Berlin,

i'm a 23yo gay man that spent his life surrounded by girls most of the time so i don't think i ever went in that "boy phase", i remember being attracted to a male even before the age of 10, the male body was always so much more appealing and complex to me than a female body

Chris, S Plainfield NJ, USA

I'm gay and this does not describe me (or anyone I know) at all. Sex games with other boys? Where I grew up you'd have got a smack in the chops. Good job I never even considered it. And I've always liked the opposite sex - just never sexually. How many gay men did Desmond Morris actually speak to?

Jim, Uxbridge, England

Hi Phil in the UK - you are accurate in what you say about the rams. I've seen at least one scientific paper documenting this, and it was found, matching with previous findings in homosexual men, that there were differences in the hypothalamus between the "male oriented" and "female oriented" rams. This wasn't some superficial issue created by environmental conditions, but deep-seated and primal.

Morris is aware and recently conceded in an interview that yes, animals do perform many homosexual acts, but said that this could not account for a lifelong abstinence from heterosexual sex. He thinks that we're unmatched in that respect in the animal kingdom. And he's wrong, again. Though he's at least changed his tune slightly.

In fact, the whole hinge of his argument is flawed: Most homosexuals either played with both sexes or played primarily with the opposite sex.

To finish: it's not a theory, it's a hypothesis - and a poor one at that.

Heather Dalgleish, Glasgow, Scotland

This theory concentrates solely on homosexuality amongst human males when clearly there is strong evidence to suggest this trait occurs in the animal kingdom. An article in the Sunday Times some months ago detailed that approximately 8-10% of rams exhibited homosexual tendencies and as a result weren't profitable to the farmer. (This article then went on to discuss the trials being carried out changing brain hormones/chemicals in an attempt to counteract this behaviour.) Other non-ovine species in the animal kingdom are know to exhibit such tendencies - a trait that is unlikely to be caused by a long period of growing up with same-sex members as Mr Morris' theory implies for humans. It would seem logical to assume therefore, irrespective of the underlying reason(s) for homosexuality, the root cause be the same amongst all species.

Homosexuality has been a feature of society for thousands of years, perhaps once the true cause has been discovered, the associated stigma can be lifted.

Phil Gilbert, Gloucestershire, UK

natural reproduction... yes... it does take a sperm and an egg.... now to rear it.... nature has many ways... sometimes its not about passing on your personal genes but your families genes in general that is the evolutionary force involved... i agree as a gay man i spend more of my time creatively/imaginatively... my time not being spent raising the next generation directly. however, my input into the family is such that they individualy have a better chance of providing a succeding generation....

colin morris, walsall, west midlands

I can't help thinking that with less emphesis on the "boys-follying-with-boys" thing, there's a real fundamental point underneath there.

Personally I think for anyone to undertake the daring, dangerous task of explaining homosexualitys origin down to a single cause, is, well - brave - but coming from someone who's dedicated my life to this topic.. there is not enough research going into this for ANYONE to start drawing conclusions.

The best hint i can give is that it seems to be more about the earlier stages in life (not as late in as the Prof.'s 10-years) that boys can feel unmasculined and driven in ways that can only be comparible at the time to be 'different'.

Mark Fly, bracknell,

I totally agree with every comment made in the above article.

There have to be reasons that males or females would veer off the path of NATURAL REPRODUCTION. Homosexuals should not be so sensitive about this. In order to be at peace with ones sexuality, one needs to find out the reasons for oneself that one is attracted SEXUALLY to who they are.

And the statistics for college grads and PHd's being more so in homosexual males, why , of course they feel they have more to prove to the world. They arent just gay: they are very well educated gays. And thats alright with me.

Teresa, Akron, OH, USA

This author doesn't tell anything new about the reasons of why a person 'becomes' gay. By the moment the author says "Or he may have found the boyish sex games that are so common in the stand-off phase to be particularly exciting", it is saying that you can find particulary interesting gay sex, so you become gay! nice argument!

Seriously now, it is a very weak reasoning. We can make as difficult as we like, or we can make it simple and just say that at this moment there is NOTHING that can explain why a person is gay and why another is not. And furthermore, we don't know exactly if it has sense asking such a thing. I mean, it is like thinking about wether the letter 'r' is represented by that symbol and not by another and what does it implies in evolution. I think that simply being gay don't disturb evolution, and evolution don't disturb being gay. Of course evolution allows gay existence, but has nothing to do with it. Nature often offers all the solutions and possible combinations.

Javier, Pamplona, Spain

It's extremely discouraging to read such laughable nonsense in 2007. Where does one begin...? First off, "gay" identity, which was a response to the social repression of homosexuality, is a transparently artificial concept which has become increasingly irrelevant. For thousands of years, men in every culture had sexual relations with each other without recourse to it. Secondly, the entire quest for the "cause" of homosexuality is a suspect and prejudiced enterprise. What is the "cause" of heterosexuality? The simple answer is the same in both cases: male humans have been programmed by evolution to spread their seed as far and wide as possible. Other men are often convenient and attractive receptacles. And oh yes, - it's really quite enjoyable.

Anthony C., New York City

Anthony, New York, NY

I think we're forgetting something here, folks.

Remember that transgender(ism) and homosexuality are two separate veins. It should be noted that people who "struggle" with gender identity issues are not necessarily homosexual (and vice versa). While there is some overlap for some people, it is a completely different way of being.

Gender identification with the opposite sex is mostly determined by biology. On the other hand, homosexuality (or sexuality in general) is something far more complicated.

AND not all cultures accept this comparatively recent dichotomy of gay versus straight; homosexuals versus heterosexuals. In fact, not many cultures even think about it. This sexual labeling that is so common in the metropolitan west is a pain IMHO. When it comes to facets of the human psyche, spirituality, and sexuality, the lines are blurred. They are simply not measurable. And one has to consider many, many things and ask many, many questions.

Think about it.

Aldrin, Cavite, Philippines

"Bromhall sees this last type, to which homosexual males belong, as a byproduct of the increasingly infantile condition of our species." In endorsing Bromhall's argument, effectively that Homosexuality is a product of modern times and due to the "infantilisation" of our society, Morris shows himself to be supremely reductionist, and historically ignorant. First you can not divide society in to groups as Bromhall does and attempt to trace their development over time, any decent cultural or social historical study shows how flimsy and two dimensional such groupings are.
Secondly, the idea that in the past society was full of "old style" macho types; and that men who can negotiate and/ or were homosexual did not exist, is rubbish. Homosexuality has existed throughout human history, there is documented evidence from Greece, Sparta, Renaissance Florence, early modern England, to name but a few.

Anita, Ealing, England

From the first statement in the above extract ..."Viewed purely from an evolutionary standpoint, there is only one valid biological lifestyle for the human male and that is heterosexual."... it is apparent that Dr. Morris has not bothered to stay current on the scientific literature with respect to evolutionary biology, including such fundamental concepts as genetic fitness and kin selection. Further, he draws a number of conclusions throughout the piece absent any supporting data. I was an avid reader of some of his earlier works, but if these few paragraphs are representative of the quality of thought presented in his new book, I see no reason to bother reading it.

Cliff H., California, USA

Ding dong, Desmond. You're asking for trouble. An article like this is bound to cause umbrage amongst prideful poofs like me and I must confess my initial instinct was one of 'How very dare he!' This use of the word "problem" in relation to being gay is fighting talk.
I remember being turned on sexually by the idea of men from ... well, as far back as I can remember - circa the age of three; and although I didn't have the vocabulary, or the information, I knew then that this was and always would be my preference, and I also knew life would to be easier if I could be different. Explain that, if you can, 'cos I can't.
Anyway, you can't see them on this forum but you only have to look at my eyelashes to see I was born gay. And as for my cheekbones, well.... Maybe Desmond is right & I'm retarded. My own anthropological theory is that once you're this fabulous , evolution ain't gonna take you no further, so my being gay is Mother Nature's way of saying, "My work here is done. Da-da!"

Dickie Beau, London,

The author refers in more than one part of his work to turning or being gay as the 'Problem'... which for me indicates his biasness in this review. Few completely wrong assumptions:
- As a gay guy, I prefered to play with girls more than boys! I only have girl friends but when it comes to sex I only want to sleep with men.
- Many gay men and lesbians have children and some go to massives effort to breed...some lie about their sexuality and get married, some pay thousands of pounds to surrogates in US and East europe to have their own children, while others adopt...
- Yet again someone did not do here research right..there are evidence all over that gay animals are found and some live in long term relationships...

I am sorry to say Mr Morris is out of touch with latest research on homosexuality and its origin...draws a picture from his prospective..and incorrect one...

Dr. F Safieddine, London, United Kingdom

I think Dr. Morris really ought to go back to the drawing board with this theory, to echo other comments made. I care not to elaborate much on this as most of my opinion has already been voiced - other than to state that his ideas are quite quasi-Freudian, and insultingly flimsy and over-simplistic. To boot, he has spoken of evolution as though it were some sort of mystical force that performs actions "for the good of biology" (evolution has done this, evolution did that...) Which is beyond weak for a popular biologist of his standing. He also should consider what makes human male homosexuality more noteworthy, biologically speaking, than human female homosexuality, or homosexuality in other species - including pseudocopulatory behaviour in all-female parthenogenic species . Deeply disappointing, to say the least...

Heather Dalgleish, Glasgow, Scotland

I have always been suspicious of Desmond Morris' approach to gay matters since 'manwatching'.
In this, his latest pronouncement,he has excelled himself!
Does he not realise that pre-pubescent boys realise they are going to be gay and, far from being part of the 'boy culture' which he describes, they feel ill at ease in it - even when engaging in gay sex at that age, there is an acknowledement that the other partner is probably not really gay - merely enjoying the pre-girls homosexual fling - one small 'area in which Morris' hypothesis is actually correct!
Yes, maybe gay guys do have more fun in adult life because they continue to enjoy the pursuits of a younger generation but this is merely one aspect of being gay and not, as in Morris' hypothesis, its whole 'raison d'etre'.
Being gay is in one's nature not nurture and it is time people like Desmond Morris stopped peddling such meddlesome theories as those he has recently put forward!
Charles Renwick, Glasgow

charles renwick, glasgow, scotland

If that was the case how come so many married men have sex with other men? a few of them with me.

If gay men were stck in childhood, how come so many straight women complain about their boyfriends/husbands being childish and immature and wanting to marry their Mothers?

How come Married men can become homosexual in later life?

and yes what about gay women or dose Dsmond think like queen victoria that they do not exist.

who is fundind this research and why?


How come gay men form strong intimate bonds with women and gay men and straight men but a lot of straight blokes can't even form a relationship with themselfs?

Or straight blokes who get drunk and shag each other

Maybe funding should go into why straight men are violent and aggressive..attacking old ladies and raping them rapping young girls...enjoying boxing enjoying fox hunting.

Or with George Bush

The abuse that happens in the Army?

But no another attack on Gay people cause they are easy targets

mikr, Crawely, sussex

As long as people write articles like this, being gay will not be accepted in society.

starling, Lancaster,

"Please explain why lesbians and gay men mimic heterosexual relationships with one partner being butch and the other femme?"

Hang on, not all gay/lesbian couples do the butch/femme thing!

starling, Lancaster,

1) being gay is not the same as not having children - many gay people have kids

2) not having kids does NOT mean your genes don't survive. For example, I have 7 nieces and nephews - this is genetically equivalent to 7 grandchildren

two simple examples of just how flawed Morriss's "science" is

ahuman, Leeds,

To be honest I read much of this article on the verge of laughter. Morris’s theory is full of the kind of curious ill-informed stereotypes that one could have forgiven anthropologists of say, forty years ago, when taboo and social convention would have made it difficult to properly research gay and lesbian sexual behaviour and its genesis, but not now. My reaction is one of amusement more than annoyance because, as Morris points out himself, gay men are far more likely to have a university education than their straight counterparts. Many of us have the academic training that confirms what most people, regardless of educational background, will intuitively know on reading this article; that it is anachronistic trash.

Jeff Seddon, London, UK

Interesting article but it doesn't provide answers to a few honest questions that I have:

Please explain lesbianism?

Please explain why lesbians and gay men mimic heterosexual relationships with one partner being butch and the other femme?

Please explain the number of ex-homosexuals that I am friends with - men and women who were convinced that they were born gay until they decided to leave the lifestyle in their late twenties?

Thabo, London,

This is complete nonsense. As a gay man, I can say with certainty that I am not stuck in the "only socialize with boys" stage: I never entered it. I made friends with girls when I was young, and I *stayed* friends with those girls: indeed, my best friend in kindergarden was a girl, and she's *still* my friend 30 years later.

Further, *heterosexual* men never actually leave the "socialize with boys" stage: they merely become attracted to girls. How many heterosexual men do you know who have a wife and a number of female friends who weren't their wife's friends first? None? Exactly. Straight men turn to their male friends for non-sexual bonding and for validation of their masculinity throughout their life. Straight men do not feel masculine because they have sex with their wife: they feel masculine because their male friends treat them as such. That's what male bonding is about.

We gay men have the great good fortune of being able to be friends with both men and women. Thank god.

Thomas Farrell, Somerville, Massachusetts, USA

Purely speculative. This is not, in any way, science.

alex, London,

These "findings" are the simply the result of a homophobic society. Morris might mean well but the assumptions he uses to reach his conclusions are absolutely increadibly false.

From personal experience I am living proof of what Morris is saying is wrong. I am the Alphatype (and always have been), but i am also gay. Morris' conclusions come from having only examined more effiminate gays, which he viewed as something being wrong with them because of their more unique social relantionships.

Most of us gay men, myself included had a very nomal childhood. No abuse, no weird social factors, no bad experiences with girls. We are just gay.

Morris' "research" will no be used to promote more hate and bigotry against gays since people will think that being gay is phychological and therefore a choice, which can be changed with theraphy.

Parents will hate their children when they see that they cannot change. Morris' "research" is not based on reality but it is very dangerous.

Michael, Pennsauken, NJ

Same here. I never experienced the trajectory outlined in this imaginative bit of fluff, and nor did any of my gay friends.

Bob Wimbles, London,

Good grief, is Morris letting his own gender stereotypes and conformity beliefs cloud biological issues? He's starting to sound like the completely disregarded "pop-psychology" books by Allan and Barbara Pease!

David Sedgely, Leeds, UK

I was disturbed that the author assigned biological traits to elements that are more then likely socialized behaviors. Such as gender segregation in children.

Luke , Fayetteville,

Is it not possible that there is more than one single explanation for peoples' behaviors and that Desmond Morris's proposed eplanation here may be relevant to some, but not to all gay and bisexual men?

Scott Benowitz, Rye, New York, U.S.A.

The 'evolutionary standpoint' mentioned above is a theoretical model which can be used to endorse or discredit any behaviour - or group. We should consider our cultural commitment to making people fit to theories (doctrines and dogmas too).

We ought to examine the social implication of the concept of 'biological validity'. Pregnancy is not the sole aim or purpose of human sexuality or the human body. Women have suffered enormously because their human and social validity were reduced to their reproductive validity. In this instance social judgements ('mature/infantile') are being made under the guise of scientific description ('biological validity'). The light-hearted comment about gay men being ‘sexually chaallenged’ actually translates as ‘sexually disabled’. Social Darwinism anyone?

Biology does not supply an adequate account of human sexuality any more than plumbing explains the social and symbolic significance of water in human art and culture.

Stephen Little, London, UK

What a bunch of hooey. Gay men and women are BORN gay. The are NOT "stuck" in a phase. What silly nonsense.

Superman, New York,

Clearly, Mr. Morris, you have done precious little research into your work. A survey of gay men would likely reveal many to have never had a "boys-only" social phase - a lot of gay men grow up seeking and maintaining the friendship of girls from a young age.

I'm sure many would describe an absence or lack of any "homosexual games" with their male friends, also.

I am a gay man. I had a healthy mix of male and female friends through childhood. I rarely if ever engaged in games with those friends that could be considered sexual.

Finally, if other animals do not share this supposed "boys only" phase of social interaction, why is homosexuality as prevelant among other species as it is our own?

Peter Kennedy, Dublin,

This appears to be little more than Morris' theory. It neither proves or disproves anything - like most of the arguments so far regarding reasons of homosexuality. How does he attribute homosexual behaviour in animals? Also, does he have any theories for lesbian women too?

Steph Jones, London E15, UK

I only hanged around in mostly female circles, as most boys hated me for being effeminate or didn't understand me, yet I am a gay male. Not even a very well researched and thought-out theory from Morris which disregards homosexuality in animals and female homosexuality.

John Devlin, Bristol, UK

I didn't know I was gay until later when I knew what sex was. It was only around then at about 10 I began to get worried. By 12 it was full blown angst, by 20 more or less acceptance. By now happiness and contentment. It is seemingly 'unnatural' yet natural. Why, little idea. But pointless to judge. You could no more be a lesbian or a gay man as a matter of choice than I. I have had great female friends, lots of opportunities, but it doesn't 'rock my boat' just as yours most likely sails forth on its own merry way. Honesty is the value to hold, whatever the relationship.

Mark, Amsterdam, Netherlands

Oh dear. I've really enjoyed some of Desmond Morris's books, but this article is wildly inaccurate and worryingly judgemental. Neither my brother nor I had all-girl or all-boy upbringings or experienced any kind of tribal loyalties or child sex-games. What Morris is describing sounds more like incidental homoerotic behaviour than heterosexual or homosexual development. While drastically over-generalising these behaviours, it also misses out the spectrum of gays who identify more with girls than with conventional male groups. In the context of the "species," there are all sorts of reasons why people don't reproduce (and may or may not contribute to the "species" anyway.) Singling out gay men seems irrelevant at best and paranoid at worst.

Francesca Reinhardt, Cambridge,

Don’t you just love all of these heterosexual experts on homosexuality?

To use some of his arguments against him, if we had no purpose in nature, wouldn’t natural selection done away with us by now? I wonder if he denies that we are experiencing a population crisis, and that unchecked heterosexuality could be in the top threats to the continuing of the species.

Gregory Highfill, Modesto, California, USA

Has Desmond Morris actually ever met or talked to any gay men? Every gay man I know (including myself) spent more of their teens hanging around with girls than they ever did hanging around with boys. To suggest that we are stuck in some kind of pseudo adolescence is just plain wrong. What we did is graduate from a mainly female group of friends to a more gay male orientated social group as we matured and became more sure of ourselves and our sexuality. And as we matured we became as diverse and individual in our personalities as anyone else in society. Personally I think I belong in the Bureautype identified above (not that anyone else anywhere appears to be using the same categories as your author and his source - and there's probably a good reason for that).
Jonathan Lewis, Manchester

Jonathan Lewis, manchester,

Poppycock.

Homosexuality is determined during pregnancy and is dependent on how much testosterone the male foetus receives during this period. A mother that is stressed is likely to inhibit the amount of testerone the male foetus receives and thus produce a gay-baby - or rather a boy with an effeminate (unmasculnised) brain.

Fact: All foetus begin as female (hence man having useless nipples) and the amount of testosterone is what determines how masculine he becomes.

There is now belief that autism is linked to this theory. A male receiving too much testosterone is likely to become autistic and show predominately male traits, e.g. low social skills and high logic reason (the polar opposite of women/gay men).

Now consider the ratio of gays to lesbians, autistic boys to autistic girls, or even men wanting a sex-change compared to women. In all cases men are the higher ratio.

The difficult question now is where does all this put lesbians?Is it predetermined or is it choice?

Scott, Scunthorpe, England

I refer you to:
Wilson, G., & Rahman, Q. (2005). Born Gay, The Psychobiology of Sex Orientation. London: Peter Owen Publishers.

As you will find this will debunk the psychosocial evidence as put forward by Mr D. Morris.

Christopher, Crewe, Cheshire

"The Prof has lovely things to say about how successful and generally brilliant gays are"

Oooh, get you.

Joe, Manchester,

As a gay woman I've never read such rubbish. Many of the gay male friends I have knew they were gay long before the age of puberty and most went to mixed schools. Explain that?

Personally I think you are born gay. I went to an all girl school and was never into the things other girls were, like dolls and dressing up. My Mum admitted she spent her time while pregnant with me watching wrestling, which might explain my high testosterone levels. Still I'm not complaining. I'm straight looking, have loads of ambition and oomph and as a result have been extremely successful. Now I just need to find the right woman who will put up with me and I'm sorted!

Stephanie James, London, England

And what about bi-sexuals, and lesbians, and gay men that have had sex with girls but just prefer men?
And i know plenty of aggressive"alpha-type" gay men.
And Prof kind of just assumes also that gay men and women don't have any urge to provreate, which is just silly. Lesbians have wombs too, and gay men love children as much as heterosexual men.

Ben Davies, amsterdam, Netherlands