By the extrovert standards of our parliament, it is a surprisingly quiet
debate, but one that will have all manner of implications. The Human Tissue
and Embryos Bill, which is expected to become law next summer, says
controversially that the fathers of artificially conceived children need not
necessarily be recognised by the state. Are fathers destined to become
redundant?
The bill is a reflection of much wider scientific and social changes. The
technology to produce artificial sperm, or even create offspring from two
females, is already in the pipeline; in addition, genetic evidence has shown
that the Y chromosome, the only one that confers maleness, is in a long-term
evolutionary decline.
And if that were not humiliating enough for men, in sizable communities across
the country lesbians are not only forming partnerships, but they are openly
bearing and raising children together, secure in the knowledge that British
society now accepts such a lifestyle choice. Do men have a future at all?
The Y chromosome has scant function other than the production of sperm, and in
many men it is not performing well. Male infertility is already surprisingly
common: about 7% of men, or 1 in 13, are affected, often as a result of a
defect in the coding mechanism for sperm production on the Y chromosome.
Scientists hypothesise that there is more scope for errors in the DNA to build
up: as it replicates in sperm production, “mistakes” can tend to creep into
the Y chromosome. In fact, Y chromosomes only have about 27 genes – the rest
of the chromosome is composed of “junk” DNA that does not code for anything.
This process has gone even further in other species: in kangaroos, for
example, the production of male offspring comes from one solitary gene on
the Y chromosome.
While other chromosomes pair up and swap DNA during the production of embryos,
the Y chromosome in men does not do this. It is passed unchanged from
generation to generation of fathers and sons, and while it has provided
genealogists with a fascinating insight into the origins of entire
communities, it has also raised other questions. The lack of ability to
recombine means that Y chromosomes can’t repair themselves. A growing number
of men have inherited a Y chromosome that was damaged during the production
of their father’s sperm. There is considerable evidence that sperm counts
are declining overall, and in some men the inherited damage to sperm
production is so great as to render them infertile.
Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at Oxford University and author of
the book Adam’s Curse, is convinced that men will die out as the Y
chromosome withers. He has calculated that, at the current rate of decline,
heterosexual reproduction may only last around 125,000 years. “The core sex
is female,” he says. “Male infertility is high because genes on the Y
chromosome are packing up all the time. Many species become extinct because
their Y chromosomes apparently disintegrate. In the end, the same thing will
probably lead to the extinction of the male gender.”
The only glimmer of hope, he believes, may lie in the experience of the mole
vole. This tiny rodent native to the Caucasus mountains of central Asia
seems to have lost its Y chromosome somewhere down the evolutionary
millennia, but the genetic material that confers maleness has nimbly
transferred itself to another chromosome. If the Y chromosome turns out to
be as useless as Sykes suggests, it would be possible to move the human SRY
(the sex-determining region of the Y chromosome) and associated “maleness”
genes to another chromosome and produce males with two X chromosomes.
A surprising number of animals can reproduce without male involvement if there
is no other option. Sharks and lizards have demonstrated this ability in
captivity. It was previously believed that the process was impossible in
mammals such as humans because male sperm cells and female egg cells undergo
a process called imprinting. In imprinting, sections of each cell’s genome
are silenced to allow the set of genes from the other parent to be
expressed, so that when the egg and sperm cells combine, the genes in the
resulting embryo are not competing with each other.
It has now been discovered that it is possible to interrupt this process by
deleting just two sections of genetic material on the genomes of female mice
– animals very similar, for reproductive purposes, to humans. Immature egg
cells that have not begun any of the rest of the imprinting process are
fused with a mature egg from another mouse, and activated by an electric
current to begin dividing. These new cells will produce a ball of cells just
like a normal early embryo.
Elsewhere, producing a child that is the genetic offspring of two females is
becoming a real possibility – and the process is not nearly as difficult as
was previously thought. Artificial sperm produced from bone-marrow cells has
already led to pregnancies and live births in mice. Last summer a Japanese
team announced that female mice had been made pregnant using cells from
other females, and given birth to completely healthy babies. The success
rate was about one in five, roughly the same as that achieved by human
infertility clinics. The only drawback was that the baby mice grew into
adults that were on average 20% smaller than normal mice, but the
researchers expect to rectify this problem once the imprinting process is
better understood. Their message is that there is nothing unique provided by
the male in sexual reproduction – only properly imprinted chromosomes for
the production of a new human baby.
Others are keener to help keep men going. One of the world leaders in the
field, Karim Nayernia, professor of stem-cell biology at Newcastle
University, has already shown that unlimited sperm can be derived from early
stem cells present in an embryo. He has also proved that it is possible to
overcome the shortage of donor sperm by using the stem cells stored in bone
marrow, generally destined to provide replacement blood cells on demand.
Such manufactured sperm would initially be used to restore fertility in men
made sterile by cancer treatment, but the technology has other
possibilities. Nayernia is awaiting ethical approval to see if he can also
produce synthetic sperm cells from women’s stem cells. “We want to see if we
can test the functionality of female sperm produced in this way,” he said.
“There would be no possibility of using it for human reproduction. We want
to use it to make other tissues.”
He acknowledges, however, that scientists cannot control the use of such
knowledge. Once the technology is there, it will be very attractive to
lesbians. How long before it is routinely used is another question. “The
timescale will be dictated by ethical concerns rather than scientific ones.”
Bill Ledger, professor of obstetrics and gynaecology at the University of
Sheffield, is among the British infertility experts who over the past four
decades have presided over the creation of tens of thousands of babies by
IVF. “The traditional model of a normal family is long gone in the West,” he
says. “It is unjust to allow gay people to have equal-partnership rights and
not allow them to have children. The shortage of human sperm donors will
inevitably increase pressure for novel methods of reproduction. There is no
evidence of harm to children brought up in nonconventional families, though
it will be some time before we know if the research on this is right or not.”
Meanwhile, the Human Tissue and Embryos Bill may be recognising the new
approach to parenthood put forward by the lesbian community, but it will
also open a new can of worms by redefining parenthood as a legal
responsibility rather than a biological relationship.
The proposed legislation makes provision for a child to have two female
parents, but there is no discussion of the concept of a female father.
Earlier this year the parliamentary committee that scrutinised the bill said
that if the technology becomes available to create a baby without the need
for male involvement, then “any question of whether such an embryo should be
allowed to be inserted into a woman should be a matter for parliament to
decide”.
It is a comment almost touching in its naivety. It is not a question of if,
but when – and it is also highly unlikely that the first such babies will be
created here. The most up-to-date research suggests that this might happen
in 5 to 10 years. British women wanting such a child will simply go abroad
for the treatment, and parliament will be one of the last places to hear
about it.
) ) ) ) )
While scientific developments and research are undermining the traditional
function of men – particularly as fathers – a blossoming of the lesbian
community is having an equally profound impact. Marie Piper conceived her
baby on her honeymoon. While there is nothing particularly remarkable about
that, the precise manner of the conception is more unusual. Instead of going
about procreation in the normal way, the baby’s father handed over a total
of eight plastic bags of semen in the foyer of the London hotel where Marie
was staying for the weekend, and left the rest to her. Marie was not
spending her nights with another man, but celebrating the public recognition
of a civil partnership with another woman, Jill Greenfield, with whom she
has lived for the past seven years.
A baby boy the two women have named Joseph was the product of the hotel
transaction. While they both actively wanted the name of the biological
father on the birth certificate, and expect him to have some involvement in
Joseph’s life, it will be at arm’s length. They regard the baby, who is now
six months old, as their child. They are hoping to have a sibling next year
from the same donor, and might even have more children to complete their
family.
In Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, where the two women live, this arrangement
has aroused no comment. The affluent Pennine community, with its smart
delicatessens and organic grocers, has become an unlikely centre for
Britain’s burgeoning community of lesbian families. Up to one in five of the
population of 13,000 is a gay woman. Lesbian couples own many of the bars,
restaurants, galleries and other businesses that line the Rochdale canal and
the nearby River Calder. Although other large cities have significant gay
populations, the concentration in Hebden Bridge is probably greater than
anywhere else in the UK. And it is getting bigger. In Marie’s antenatal yoga
classes last year, no fewer than 4 out of 10 of the other mothers were part
of lesbian couples.
A similar trend is recognisable nationwide. Data from the Human Fertilisation
and Embryology Authority, which regulates fertility treatments and embryo
research, indicate that within two years there will be more lesbian
couples, or women who identify themselves simply as “single”, having
children by using donor sperm than heterosexual couples. Of the 3,864 women
who had donor insemination last year, 1,472 were not in heterosexual
relationships. Infertility doctors widely acknowledge that while many of
this latter group are heterosexuals without husbands or boyfriends, many
more single women define themselves as such simply to avoid intrusive
questions about their sexuality.
In some parts of the country, women’s civil-partnership ceremonies outnumber
those involving men. Overall, there were 18,059 such unions in the first
year they became available. The government’s prediction of little more than
2,000 per year showed the inaccuracy of official estimates of the size of
Britain’s gay community.
The Kinsey reports on human sexuality, conducted on Americans half a century
ago, suggested that only 10% of people of each gender were totally
heterosexual, with another 10% totally homosexual. Most people, Kinsey
argued, lie somewhere on a continuum between gayness and straightness. The
social trend that we are witnessing indicates many more women than expected
could be migrating towards lesbianism. Fear of public outrage has deterred
governments from including questions of sexual orientation on the national
census, but the size of gay communities in Britain’s cities now makes it
impossible to ignore them.
In Hebden Bridge, where lesbian couples proudly stroll around with their
babies with the same assurance as heterosexuals, you might think this
alternative society is utterly unremarkable. “Women come here because they
feel at home,” says Piper, 28, an English graduate from Leeds University who
until her maternity worked in academic administration. “There are now so
many lesbians here that nobody really thinks of our lifestyle as anything
unusual.” Her civil partner, Jill Greenfield, 37, works as a charity
manager. On Wednesday nights she goes to football training. Marie minds the
baby. Like many lesbians, she always knew she wanted children, and she tried
to form relationships with boys, but she also knew from childhood that she
would fall in love with a woman.
She now moves in a circle of entirely like-minded women. Her social group
includes six lesbian couples with babies all born within six months of
Joseph. Half were conceived through donor sperm from clinics, and the others were
arrangements like hers, where a gay friend or acquaintance agreed to provide
the sperm.
Such arrangements are extremely fraught. There are long waiting lists for
donor sperm at infertility clinics because of a chronic shortage caused by
new laws allowing children conceived by donor sperm to track their genetic
fathers. With informal arrangements, the father runs the risk of being
approached for financial support for the child, even years after its
conception, as has happened in the case of the fireman Andy Bathie, 37, of
Enfield, north London, who is being pursued for child support for two
children produced from his sperm donation to a lesbian couple who have now
split up. Even so, the number of lesbian families is rocketing. Most
lesbians say women would prefer to use sperm from a donor they know than
incur the expense of going through a clinic, but the number of lesbians
having donor insemination from clinics has risen by 6% in the past year
alone.
Having secured the right to legal recognition of their relationships through
the provision for civil partnership, many lesbians are now seeking equal
parenting rights to heterosexual couples, by asking for a child’s second,
nonbiological mother to take the legal role of father. The Human Tissue and
Embryos Bill will allow for a second woman, rather than a man, to be treated
as a child’s parent. How this will be expressed on birth certificates has
yet to be fleshed out.
The implications of these huge changes in the definition of “family” are
generating unease. Joseph’s parents, and most other lesbian couples
interviewed for this article, were keen to maintain contact with their
children’s natural fathers, but a growing number are not. Precise figures
for the size of this group are impossible to come by, but one woman, who did
not want to be identified, said she had made it clear from the outset that
she did not want her teenage son to contact his biological father. “I don’t
believe the genes have much to do with it,” she said. “My son is entirely
heterosexual, but I don’t really want his father to try to have any input
into how he grows up. I want all the parenting to come from me. I don’t want
him to form an attachment to a man who has nothing at all to do with our
lives.”
If the debates on artificial sperm and the decline of the Y chromosome were
not enough to dismay any man – or indeed any woman with sons – there is
growing evidence that women are outstripping men intellectually.
Sociologists and education specialists are bemoaning the continuing triumph
of girls over boys at every level of the education system, leading to the
inevitable question of whether the male gender is reaching the end of its
natural usefulness.
It is an issue that has been much discussed in literature for more than a
century. Herland, a science-fiction novella of 1915 by the American feminist
Charlotte Perkins Gilman, describes a utopia where women, “the natural
co-operators”, reproduce by parthenogenesis. The previous existence of men
is consigned to legend. Similar scenarios have been described in more recent
science fiction, such as the French writer Elisabeth Vonarburg’s 1993 novel
In the Mothers’ Land, where a few women breed with men but the majority use
artificial sperm.
Earlier this year the Bow Group, a right-wing think-tank, reported that only
144,000 boys a year were going into further education, compared with 167,000
girls. This superior school performance is contributing to girls’ progress
in catching up with men in economic terms.
A recent report by the Future Foundation predicted that women in their
twenties earn 96% of the pay earned by men, and within the next decade will
earn more than men because of their higher educational attainments and
skills. And within 20 years, women would be the main breadwinners in one in
four families.
Other studies have highlighted the new phenomena of female medical graduates
outnumbering men and the preponderance of women receiving first-class
degrees. Jon Pickering, a lecturer in school effectiveness and school
improvement at the Institute of Education in London, says it is impossible
to predict how the male sex will react to a world where “effortless
achievement” is no longer their right. “Generations of girls are now coming
through who are aware of the fact that they can do better than men,” he
says. “It will have an effect on the balance of society. If men can no
longer achieve anything very much, what exactly is going to be left for
them?”
If, as is often observed, women do the lion’s share of the domestic duties in
most homes, the question of whether they will continue to find men necessary
becomes more pressing. A number of academics think that if you remove men’s
higher earning power and their unique ability to father children, more women
will inevitably choose to live with other women.
Women are increasingly admitting to a willingness to experiment in sexual
relationships with other women instead of men. Last year the American
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported the number of
adult women having lesbian sex had almost trebled, from 4% to 11.5%, in one
decade. Researchers such as John Bancroft, the British-born former director
of America’s Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction,
says surveys in Britain and Australia have produced similar findings to the
CDC, but he argues that women’s sexuality is more fluid, and that bisexual
tendencies may have little significance.
Gay academics predict a social sea change. Gregory Woods, professor of gay and
lesbian studies at Nottingham Trent University, draws a parallel between
dwindling disapproval of lesbianism and the change in attitudes to
“spinsterhood” and women living alone towards the end of the last century.
“It used to be thought there was something improper about a woman not
marrying and seeking to live alone,” he said. “The taboos about women’s
behaviour are weakening, and these alternative methods of having babies will
change things more, but I think it will happen over decades rather than
years.”
Where all this will lead is anyone’s guess. “Our society has embarked on a
vast social experiment in producing children designed to have no human
relations with some of their biological relatives…permanently severed from
their biological past…by deliberate intention,” said David Velleman,
professor of philosophy at New York University.
There is disquiet in the UK too. Brenda Almond, emeritus professor of moral
and social philosophy at the University of Hull, is the author of a recent
book called The Fragmenting Family. She is at pains to stress her
even-handed attitude to lesbians, but fears that the drive to recognise
lesbian families may cause us to discard something of significant value.
“You are losing the possibility of having a caring or involved parent of the
opposite sex,” she says. “I feel very strongly that birth certificates
should fulfil their original function of giving information about a person’s
biological origins. They should not be reduced to being a sort of social
record.”
It seems unlikely these rumblings of protest will have any impact on the
juggernaut of changing social attitudes – especially as the growing
preference for homosexual child-rearing is being fuelled by scientific
developments that will see artificial sperm available for human use in 5 to
10 years. The definition of a child’s biological origins will therefore
change in a way never before seen in the history of mankind.
Isn't it a presumption that infertility in the Y chromosome is a defect? Nature is the great pivot, keeping things in the balance. The larger the population grows the more any "defect" is spread reducing the chances of reproduction, which is much needed.
David, London, England
Fascinating, but beside the point. Sexual reproduction of human intelligence will become redundant a lot quicker than 125,000yr. I give it, oh, 25yr before computing power, genome interpretation and mapping of brain function allow us to ditch this charming but flawed biology. And then, Ecce Homo!
Andrea, London,
My favorite part was the fireman who is now being pursued for child support after the happy lesbian couple parted ways. Oh, the irony!
Joel, Atlanta, USA
Wow, I feel rather redundant right now.
Nice knowing that I'm useless, even detrimental to nature...
MrLomax, Swansea,
this article = EPIC FAIL
will maksuta, new york,
There have been fossils discovered indicating humans were around 2 million years ago. And yet, the male species is still here. I don't see what difference 125,000 years will make. The social differences today are the result of an agenda by the global elites that control our world with money.
David Goldstein, atlanta,
Hahahahaha. A world in which bridges and highways and hospitals and schools and houses and post offices will have to be built by females. Do you imagine that the female workers who build these structure will be unlike today's males? Worse, if you ask me.
Robert, Kerrville, USA
which docters are working on the artifical uterous?
Thanks Sarah Chandler
sarah chandler, frisco, , texas
Many people seem to be under the impression that women are non violent and peaceful . This is a pure fantasy other women ive talked to say they cant stand to be in company of other women 100% of the time reasons bitchy , back biting , crazy . All women secretly hate their own sisters and if youve ever seen women compete against each other it gets downright ugly . For all the virtue and goodness that their daddies or mommies made them falsely believe they had doesnt change the reality of their nature
their human nature the duality of good and evil.
Men and women are 2 sides of the same coin one cannot and should not exist without the other they both compliment each other , if this balance is upset nature proves time and again that an species that doesnt reach equilibrium dies out or does not enjoy the numbers that dual sex species enjoy.
In regards to sexuality its already been proven its based in childhood psychology ,trauma in the past affects future life causing abnormality.
jared, sanfrancisco , ca
This needs to happen at a much quicker rate, such as during my own lifetime. It'll be the happiest day of my life when men no longer exist! :-)
Maria, Tempe, Arizona
The dawn of exogenesis
Rob Lindsay, Wallasey,
This is being written as if male-absent parenting were something new. Every time an invading army (or even a defending army) entered england, they bred with the local women. Women have been raising children alone for centuries.
The difference here is that the genetic fathers of these kids were actually chosen with intent to produce a child. This can only be a benefit in the long run.
Ringo, San Francisco, USA
Of course girls are doing better at school. A hundred years ago there were no girls at school so the boys had nothing better to do than study. But now there's skirt to be chased in the classroom - a much more rewarding expercise than chemistry homework!
Scott, Tokushima, Japan
The article mistakenly assumes that "intellectual superiority" solely equates to exam results. Exams these days are primarily undertaken in a feminised educational system where hard work and diligence are increasingly valued over originality and creativeness. Every single time the BBC has run National IQ tests, men overall have had a better average score. Is this just trivia? I don't think so, but even if there are other factors involved it's hard to conclude that women overall are superior intellectually.
Paul Watkins, Reading, Berkshire
Severing the biological links between parents and children, if successful, will be a boon to socialism. After all, who can argue that one child should be given more/better opprtunities than another, simply based on the "luck of the draw" of parents? And the counterargument -- that a parent should have the right to provide for his offspring to the best of his ability -- will hold less weight.
Jonathan Jones, Austin, Texas, USA
Indeed, and in 125,000 years all progress in technology and science will cease because women's achievments in the advancment of this world amount to 'squeezing out' the next generation of men. But thankfully this will never happen as it is a well known fact eh Y chromosome exchanges genes within itself and repairs itself. But keep chatting your feminist mantra, all you do is enrage the next generation of males who may just decide to take away your 'rights'.
Stu, Edinburgh,
" .. one woman.. said she had made it clear from the outset that she did not want her teenage son to contact his biological father. “I don’t believe the genes have much to do with it,†she said. “My son is entirely heterosexual, but I don’t really want his father to try to have any input into how he grows up. I want all the parenting to come from me. I don’t want him to form an attachment to a man who has nothing at all to do with our lives.â€
How badly and selfishly she misjudges the needs of her son.
I have been privileged to bring up my son as a single parent (hard to imagine in what other century or place this would be possible) but I have actively fought for him to keep a relationship with his father. Just because a female chooses not to be with a man it does not follow that her children will have no need of the identity and input of a father. This shortsighted and selfish attitude is as bad as the men who abandon children to avoid responsibility.
Isadora, London,
What a ghastly idea that there might be a world without men. I think that the belieff that women some how have more to offer society and the species is unbalanced and assumes that there are more positive factors in one sex than the other. Of course the entire debate is based on the premise that the species will still exist in 125 000 which seems doubtful.
Karen Juul, Westminster, MA USA
Dear author,
while men's attitudes towards male/ female parenting roles need to change; your blatently sexist, anti-male support for the idea of wiping out the entire male gender isn't exactly going to encourage guys to change their ways. The "scientific" sources of evidence which you draw from to suggest that the Y chromosome is deteriorating, are all highly debateble. Realistically the male gender will never simply 'deteriorate' and vanish and as such the only way you can 'get rid of them' is if you make an active effort to do so (through violent measures).
As has already been pointed out there would be great public outcry if you suggested that any racial group had 'Expended its use', so why do you think such outcry will not occur if this anti-male research is made public? In my opinion the best way to acheive equality for women is by getting rid of tradtional gender roles and through relevant legislation amongst other things, if neccessary.
Gemma Thomas, London, England
Men have only themselves to blame, I'm afraid. I don't like very many men. They are bossy, arrogant and sometimes abusive. Many of them are lazy and expect the woman to not only take care of the home and children but also to provide a big paycheck. You have to wonder why they think such an arrangement would be attractive to us. We women don't need them to fight off wild animals or to support us anymore, so what good is a guy whose only contribution could be sperm for our babies? We only need them to love us and treat us well, as we need to do the same to them. I am extremely lucky to have found a rare jewel of a man, who does cherish me and treat me well. We both do our utmost to make the other happy. If I had not married my wonderful husband, there's a good chance at some point I would have looked into switching to female partners. Because honestly, look around. Wouldn't quite a few women be better off without the men in their lives?
M, Central Illinois,
Only then will women stop worrying about facial her and shaved legs or armpits I suspect
Nicholas Xenakis, Borough, London, England
"The real challenge here is that many women take joy in the idea of the destruction of their brothers."
- Well said James. This truly, is the crux of the problem. Female chauvinism is running rampant, and is hyper-fueled by the current state of media, NGO's, government departments, and women's studies departments in universities.
T. Demark, Ottawa, Canada
I had to laugh at the comment that the Y chromosome will, essentially, be gone in "only" 125,000 years.
Oh dear. What does the author think human society will be like 1,000 years from now, never mind 100k+? We will be lucky to make it past the next 1,000. The "demise" of the Y chromosome will be the least of our concerns over this period.
I too left the UK about a decade ago for the 'States. Nothing against lesbians (they seem to be thriving, bless them), but there is something somewhat chilling about the way this article presents their case, and the "parallel" biological demise of the male. Sorry to say, but I'm glad I've left old 'Blighty for good.
Dan, Oakland, California
Ah, but they forget the survival instinct. Men would jump at the chance to rally for their survival. We won't go quietly into the night! I've always thought women could be replaced easily with kegs of beer!
Hillary, washington dc, virginia usa
"as if that weren’t humiliating enough for men"
My guess the author is a feminist hoping for a world without men. Grasping at straws seems desperate to prove men don’t need to exist. Lots of women like men and would rather just procreate naturally. As far as the laws that deny men parental and reproductive rights.....things change, men wont remain in their traditional roles exploited for women forever, soon men will also begin to demand equality from the system in this non monogamous society. No longer trapped in the role of "primary provider†women will lose male financial support and realize for the first time in history what equal is. Also artificial wombs will at some point be created, that technology may allow men to procreate without women. Gene manipulations could create super men and women and in the future we could all fly using our own methane as fuel, are my fantasies news worthy?
Joe boy, Toronto, Ontario
I met a fine manly brit driving an SUV and shooting an FAL at a gun range a few years back.
He emigrated to the states and we would like more of his type.
Macho Man, NY, USA
Who's going to open the new jar of peanut butter?
Rob, Los Angeles, CA
A step in the good direction.
First the males. When we get rid of women and children, the job will be done.
juan, Madrid, Spain
These lesbians are caught up in an horrifc delusion, believing that they are entering motherood whilst in reality they are BUYING into motherhood, were a child i not a child, but a possession!
Ciaran Moore, Leicester, UK
Wishful thinking, ladies. Men are here to stay.
And as soon as boys and girls are treated equally in schools again, those education stats will trend back to normal.
It is the current policy of reverse-sexism in schools and all of the anti-male propaganda in the media that is diminishing the importance of men in womens' minds, and it's about time that men realize what is going on.
Hank, New York, USA
I think everyone should read Lois Raynor from Vietnams comments. Sounds to me like an ugly bitter woman who cant get any, and the only way to get "even" with men is by talking tough in a blog. Wow you are pathetic. Maybe if you would shave you arms and legs, lose 90 pounds, and get implants, you may be desirable to some man. Maybe a hobo.
Chris, Tampa, FL
Loved the article.However it remains just what egocentric Scientist "Think". Bottom Line,Life will go on, statistics or no statistics. Claude Edwin Theriault
malebeautyforum, Toronto, Canada/Ontario
ah, lois... I'd love to think that you really exist and you aren't the tongue-in-cheek fevered ranting of someone's imagination. if so, you are pathetically bitter. so, all the nasty things in the world are the fault of men (assuming we categorise prostitution as bad)? I might as well say that if you added all the achievements of women together it would amount to precisely nothing (unless you count bearing sons).
in a world without women, there'd be no beautiful women to fight over, no nagging wives sending us over the top or complaining about the mess.... men would be free to open a cold beer and fire up the xbox without anyone demanding to watch eastenders. peace and joy all round (and, what's more, we could appreciate it without finding a reason why we hate our lives).
you are a fruitcake if you think domestic violence means men hitting women. now, make your mind up... are we to be more non-sexual or more lesbian? I don't think it would be hard to be non-sexual with you.
jem, london, uk
"we have 125,000 years... to make changes so that men don't become unnecessary... if men can stand to make the changes."
ha.
that could only have been written by a woman. :0)
jem, london, uk
one of the problems with comparing women to lizards is that lizards don't try to fool you with a sweet smile that they're not after your money.
jem, london, uk
the world is about as likely to turn lesbian as it is to turn welsh.
jem, london, uk
I think that the fact that girls are out performing boys at all stages of education is partly down to the fact that the education system in the UK is biased towards girls. There is an increasing emphasis put on methods of study and assesment that girls are better at.
A prime example of the bias towards girls in the state school system was when I was at high school a few years ago. I have always had prolems with spelling and writting. A friend of mine, a girl, had exactly the same problems as I had and was given extra lessons in English to help improve her writting skills. I did not recieve any preferential treatment as it is accepted that boys have poorer writting skills than girls. This tendancy to accept lower standards with boys is terrible, and is only getting worse. The recent low performance of boys vs. girls is nothing to do with the declie of the Y chromosome.
A. Smith, West Sussex, UK
As a man, I find this funny. I guess we have a different sense of humour.
I am waiting for the artificial womb (or legally-remote surrogate mother), so that I can outsource all the activities of the old fashioned (Victorian/ Edwardian) wife: partner, lover, child-bearer, mother, child-rearer, housekeeper.
It is clear that some women want to outsource the activities of the old-fashioned (Victorian/Edwardian) husband as well. The mistake the author makes is to assume that most men want the old-model and that society will only develop to suit women who have no need for men. I need women, I like women, I love women. I simply would prefer not to have a wife, but would love children.
Who knows? We may all get what we are after.
Merry Xmas
fuguez, london,
Unlike breathing eating drinking and excreting, sex is optional. We need more non sexual humans , more lesbian relationships; and the sooner the male human becomes extinct the better for the planet and all other creatures. Parthenogenesis for a world without rape, prostitution, child trafficking, paedophilia ,unwanted pregnancies and domestic violence.
lois raynor, HCMC, Vietnam
Our planet's survival depends on the eventual primacy of femininity--women and men alike. It can't come to soon.
Marci, Hollywood, California, USA
Unbelievable - it will never happen. Both sexes are equally important to the world, no matter how far science advances. We are supposed to be humans, not looking for opportunities to bring each other down.
Aisha, Manchester, UK
Agreed; this is about the silliest thing that I have read in awhile. The science is bad, the concept is even worse. If it is indeed true that one is "born gay" (or not gay), how do these women fantasizing about a culture without men intend to curb their female offsprings' heterosexuality? They'd end up with a society of women without any kind of sexual or emotional fulfillment. I'm all for the advancement of science, but an all-female society is an absurd proposition.
Gabe Lager, Los Angeles, CA
The U.K. is always on the leading edge in the social realm of western civilization. From outlawing self-protection by private citizens (which has yielded an inevitable explosion of crime) to making British citizens among the most surveilled people in the world under the watchful eye of ubiquitous police cameras (Eric Blair, where are you?), no social experiment seems off limits. The one described in this article where family can be legislatively redefined to whatever a bunch of self-indulgent, over-educated women desire, is simply another brick in the wall. Family is biology. As an adoptee I can state from personal experience that biology matters far more than most people realize. As the U.K. sees more women join this clowns' parade of folly, having children in artificial constructs the legitimacy of which is blessed by Parliament, so too will the U.K.'s social decline accelerate. In the modern age, nations are destroyed from within...for example, the USA.
David, Chicago, USA
Actually what is to be be considered "Junk" DNA has been therorized to contain knowledge and memories from your parents and grandparents andso on. And it does make sense. Whole human communities have been wipe out constantly leaving one or two teenagers but no parents or grandparent to pass on the knowledge they had. They needed to get that knowledge from somewhere to survive and it would make sense if the DNA could encode it somehow. The junk is knowledge from previous generations.
As for males becoming extinct, I don't think it is going to happen. Nature has seen the importance of having both male and female of almost every animal species. If two females, or individuals with both sexes as happen with plants and some insects was a really good option, you would think it would have continued in the higher animal species.
Kirk Reeves, Portland, OR
One of the problems with comparisons to lizards is the different genetic composition of the sex chromosones. Mammals have the sex differentiator in the male, XY, while Reptiles have the sex differentiator in the femals, WZ. Thus a female reptile that is capable of mateless breeding can produce a male offspring.
Jason, Lancaster, CA
125,000 years? It would seem that Britain doesn't have any men even now.
emarel, Philadelphia, USA
Sadly this ridiculous concept arises yet again! Most are intelligent enough to realise that this is fantasy but there always some readers who accept it at face value. Sykes' work has been thoroughly debunked. The Y chromosome is not disappearing at any appreciable rate and has mechanisms to self-repair. Lesbians will avail themselves of reproductive technologies to have children without men but so will gay men without women. In a society that is stripping men of meaningful contact with their children it would not be surprising if a large sector of men decided to "do it on their own". The advent of the male birth control pill and the artificial womb it is the role of women which will likely be in question. Most work done by women is in provision of services that can by men. Men make up 95% of workers in dangerous fields of employment and virtually all essential trades. The real challenge here is that many women take joy in the idea of the destruction of their brothers.
James, Ottawa,
This article clearly shows a bias towards the rights of women while discounting the role of men in society to a sideshow. It fails to point out the many traits which seem to predominate in men. Genius (gift or curse) for example manifests predominantly in men, it is men who have been primarily responsible for the building of our technological civilisation.
Men are far more given to extremes, extremes or intellectual achievement, creativity and yes destruction. A world devoid of men may well be a quieter more peaceful place but it will also be poorer in the things needed to drive the species forward.
Phyls Lansiquot, London, UK
Ugh, a world without men? Without fathers? I shudder to think of it.
Rose, Lancaster, California
I don't understand why men are upset by this article.
I like men and respect them and like being married. It's not about opening jars or fixing things. I've got a degree in engineering. I can fix things just fine. However, men and women are different in so many ways, and I would mourn the loss of something very special if we lost men.
Assuming there is an issue with degeneration of the Y chromosome, the proper response is not for men to be threatened by it, but to find a solution. Can we genetically fix the chromosome?
If boys are not doing as well in schools, a free market solution would be the private creation of schools that better engage boys, not the creation of more government task forces or research councils.
I think society functions best when there is a balance between the male and female. Too much testosterone, and you get violent, dysfunctional societies. Too little, and you have pallid, listless ones. Both yin and yang are important for a dynamic civilization.
Shefali, Austin, Texas, USA
Women will never take over like that because then they'd be responsible for the majority of taxes. Right now women are only too happy to let men pick up the tab for their social programs.
Ed, Portland, USA
Yes, men will be redundant- until the first time that the oil needs to be changed, or that "icky" spider needs to be swatted.
Then, we'll see.
James, Ft Worth, Texas
What I love about this argument is that it is centred on a village in Wales where there may be a lot of lesbians. This is a trait that only works in liberal western societies. As the rest of the world is slightly less tolerant then it would be safe to say that I dont see this catching on in say Iran.
Therefore if Britain was to become a country run by Lesbians with men iradicated I wonder how they would fare against an aggressive nation that did not share these ideals and values. I would suggest that they would be required to bulk up considerably and drop any feelings of constraint against fellow human beings.
John, Egremont,
The "intellectual" comment convinced me this is a feminist harridan writing, for anyone can see schools have become female friendly and anti-boy.
Western civilisation is already dying out and articles like this don't exactly help. I have, quite literally, moved to Borneo and married a beautiful and loving Muslim woman - and feel glad to have escaped the constant drip-drip anti-male propaganda of the UK. Genetically there are vastly bigger differences between men and women than this essay suggests. Men for example will always strive to stand out and achieve, while women tend to strive to fit in and be fashionable.
Artificial wombs will soon be a reality, should we dismiss the "need" for women? If this article discussed if we "need" blacks or Jews it would, rightfully, be spat upon.
That this can be published in a mainstream British newspaper really sums up the miserable feminised Britain I escaped from.
Good riddance.
And let's not even mention the British family courts!
Alan, Kng, Borneo
Way ahead of you... I first learned of womankind taking over the earth when as a small child I saw a ground breaking film called, 'Abbott and Costello Go to Mars' (they actually went to Venus but it amounts to the same thing). Once there these two wonderful representatives of our planet discovered a well established community of Amozonians wishing only reduce the community of men' to subservience. A job well done I might add. You go girl! I've always felt if I lived long enough our world might be reduced to something taken from such a comedy. I'm looking forward to forthcoming changes in all our lives that will surely mimic the 'Best of the Three Stooges'. The best is yet to come!
Elisha
Elisha Moor, London, England
As the ardent feminist , Camille Paglia , so well put it,
"if women had been in charge of developing civilization, we'd all still be living in grass huts "
Testosterone in the foetal brain helps develop strong spatial & mathematical traits, necessary for architecture.
Larry Summers of Harvard was right: men & women's brains are different.
As Maurice Chevalier sang "vive la differrence !".
wilfred knight, orange county, california/ usa
hahahaha gave I a good laugh. Now how about some proper science....
Rob, Lima, Peru
125,000 years...
...Even if it were to happen; It won't affect any of us!
C, Aberdeen, UK
Mybe in the future the girls will have us locked up in the cages and we will be just like some kind of circus entertainment for them. Who knows ;)
Altreone, Genova,
This article bothers me on a different level than many of the other posters. We humans, think we know everything and then publish articles of future doom and gloom. I do not believe in junk DNA. Just because we don't know what it does doesn't mean it is junk. Nature doesn't make junk. So somewhere down the road we may discover that leaving out the "junk" has caused it's own problems.
We have 125,000 years according to the article, to make changes so that men don't become unnecessary... if men can stand to make the changes. That's a lot of time for societies and science to change course... if all humans aren't extinct by then.
I'm a straight female who can't imagine the world without heterosexual sex BUT I did use donor sperm to conceive my child. It was NOT my preference and had nothing to do with sexual orientation but with biology. Time was running out, my men were never "ready". The artical is wrong to state we're really all gay buy just won't admit it. There's more to this trend.
Dianne, Rocky Point, New York
I think this Act is slightly Cuckoo!!!!! It seems to define what is in the best interest of the child as what the mother wants. Call me conservative, but i grew up with1 parent. And It is a great source of unhappiness and emptiness for me that i do not know who the other one is? No amount of social engineering will change this for me and/or millions of people like me. I am yet to meet someone who is completely happy with not having a mother or a father!!!
I think that the ultimate failure of western societies, would be brought on by the number of unreasonable attempts to change everything.
I say good luck to women, when the earth runs out of men. i am sure you would have a good 'le time being miserable without us
tk, london,
Is it April the 1st? LoL!
A great piece of comedy.
GraemeB, Portchester,
Of course men will survive...here's why.
One day, long, long ago, there lived a woman who, surprisingly, did not whine, nag, and complain........
But this was a long time ago..... and it was just ONE day.
So they can leave us men out if they like.....but they will only drive each other crazy!
Andy Clarke, Peterborough, UK - Cambs
Interesting stuff, but a limited perspective.
Can we have a gasp-wow article about women being redundant apart from hiring out the biological function of their womb to gay male couples? After all, some of them already take money for surrogate motherhood.
Some of the points made in this article are products of an irrational agenda. Who cares if girls or boys are doing slightly better or worse at school? Who cares if it's women or men that are earning a few percent more? Inequality was when girls weren't allowed to go to school, and when women weren't allowed to earn any money.
And what has sperm got to do with it? The big social change came after women shrugged off economic dependence on a husband. Look how many divorces (2/3) are now initiated by the wife. I particularly enjoyed the reference to Mr. Bathie (lesbian parents split up, donor male pursued for child support); was this example intended to support or undermine the argument?
Patrick, Oxford,
Is it me or are the men who have bothered to comment come across as a little threatened by the possiblity?!?!
EC, Yeovil, Somerset
What's the big deal? The Two Ronnies foresaw this state of affairs years ago.
Andy C, Bristol, Britain
Women worked this out 5,000 years ago and started patriarchal civilisation to get them homosexual reproductive technology which men have obligingly created. The cost was the Fall i.e. female subjection and war. Now it's almost over and the extinction of men may just save the Earth Mother.
Mary Christmas.
An accountant, Leeds, UK
The human race is extinct or might just as well be.
the duke of putney, Bournemouth,
Er...This article rather ignores the point that the vast majority of women aren't lesbians. Moreover, many of these women actually enjoy being with members of the opposite sex & at any rate recognise that men are not simply providers of sperm & can (gasp) be interesting, fun & worthwhile in their own right & in ways which sometimes differ from most women.
Margaret, Cambridge, England
I found the article fascinating.
I find the "comments" alarming.
Angry,sneering,disbelieving,partisan.
Hardly ANY of the comments are "considered" or "reasoned".
Where is the healthy pondering and discussion on Darwin`s evolutionary theory in relation to this article?
Its all about Homo Vs Hetero... Man Vs Woman.
What`s wrong with you folk? Why does every single subject that makes the news have to be a conflict or an argument or an excuse to bait another faction?
Long before the total Evolutionary loss of the Y Chromasone in 125 thousand years, humanity will self annihilate anyway.
Judging by the state of some ofthe comments posted here, mankind will be lucky to last another 100 years.
I`m off to buy Heat magazine and the Sun..... this place is a little too , um, neanderthal..for me ;)
XyZZy, Moreau Island,
I remember living next door to one such community of lesbian mothers in Bristol. Several times a day one or other of the women would call round my place asking for help fixing cars, bikes, electrics, plumbing etc. Being an English graduate a few of the women asked me to tutor their sons, but this quickly turned into a sort of surrogate father role as I increasing was called upon to deal with the prolems presented by adolescent boys who lacked any sort of authority figure in the house. It was quite fun being so much needed by these independant, separatist females, that I ended up working virtually full time for them !!!
angus, bristol,
I don't think you managed to effectively articulate any points about the selection value of males. You seem to be entirely focused on what makes males in the first place, rather than their usefulness once fully grown. Perhaps in past times males were useful for hunting other animals and protecting females. These days there may be arguments as to the differences in cognitive and motivational behaviors between males and females. For example, the usefulness of better spatial cognition, the usefulness of testosterone and male behavior patterns in goal seeking, etc. There are many variables here that need to be considered and until they are all understood, it would be rather foolish to propose that an all female society would be a success (however you may wish to measure success).
Dr Robin Laundon, London, UK
Luckily for us, men still rule the planet, get paid more than women and do far less unpaid housework or childcare than women ever do.
Alarmist, inaccurate articles like this will not change this.
Don't worry boys, your position on the top of the pile isn't threatened.
Sarah, Gillingham,
Doted with masculine privileges and female advantages and enjoying the frills of access to excess, childbirth is the summum of female narcissism as we approach the age of the usurpation of the uterus. Their power for destruction is unabated and only when it is far too late will women sadly realise that a child is not a possession, nor a bauble, and in no way at all is giving birth to a human being a "right".
Jeffrey Moore, Toulouse, France
So who, in this all female world, is going to tell them that "no, your bum doesn't look big in that dress"?
Who is going to get that big hairy spider out of the bath?
Who is going to unscrew the marmalade jar that is closed too tightly?
Who is going to carry the brunt of the bad moods and forgive them afterwards?
I wonder.....
H Bishop, Salisbury, UK
This article carelessly risks inciting a civil war between gay men and lesbians. Straight men are beautiful and a such must be preserved if only for sexual purposes. Otherwise bring on the matriarchal society.
Alistair, London,
Oh dear. So what are all the heterosexual women going to do?
Maybe they (the large majority of women ) will all grow up thinking they are mentally ill. Now that would be quite a reversal of situations.
But maybe the new technology can also alter biology and thus guarantee that all women are lesbians.
And it will be the odd woman here and there, who anyway turns out hetero, to be the one that is really nuts.
Avraham Makeler, Rehovot, Israel
The foundation of any society is the marriage based family with a Dad and a Mum who are committed to each other and are faithful. If we keep stepping away from this, western society WILL eventually collapse. Mark my words. Accept it and watch it happen if you want, I certainly won't. I will stick to that which has been proven by the test of time.
If you dig deep enough I'm sure you will find that any child from a single parent family is missing something more than just another family member. God only knows what problems a child brought up by lesbians and homosexuals might have.
Matthew, Liverpool,
And, who then, will lift and move the heavy things about the house? Or, the workplace?
SS, New York, USA
So, every man who wants to remain a man and to have a loving family will have to become a muslim! The western civilization is dead thanks to feminists!
Boris T, walnut Creek, CA
Great ! Testosterone is evidently obsolete. No more wars, no more violence, no more rapes in this new lesbian humanity. At least, a 90% decrease in jail population and in crime rates. Go for it. And the next technological step will be the artificial uterus. That will bring real freedom and safety to women. I can't wait for it. You have lost already, you bullies, you beard worshippers.
Albert, Paris,
I think it an error to allow democracy into the science lab.
Men are not equal. They reproduce unequally and some have bigger Y-chromosomes than others.
Evolutionary pressure will always favour reproductive success.
Humans are more likely to become extinct in 150 years from the increased mutational load (added genetic birth defects) building up in the gene pool from medical practice.)
Sperm counts can change rapidly from day to day, chemicals, city living, pesticides all take their toll. NB I think Finnish men have the highest sperm counts on account of 70 years of compulsory organic agriculture.
People don't like it but societies are in a Darwinian struggle for existence. I don't think the lesbians of Hebden Bridge would withstand Islam. A few bursts of machine gun fire and they'd all adopt the veil and submit to beatings.
Darwin was a firm believer in eugenics and mankind will have to go this way sooner or later.
Keith Bentham, Wigan, Lancahire
Obviously written by a woman!
stuart, Dublin, Ireland
Why does the illustration at the top show apes to man? I thought the whole point of the article was apes to woman or would that be too insulting?
Alan, Luton,
"Senior scientists believe": those words marked this one as a spoof even before the fake Kinsey citation.
Before anyone gets worried or excited, remember that the article says 7% of men may be infertile. That is, 93% aren't. Moreover, we haven't been accurately studying sperm samples for long enough to say anything about whether there've been any changes. Worry if a negative change shows up in 100 years time, or 1,000 years. In the meantime, relax and enjoy the beat-up.
And if you were going to compare the reproductive fitness of men and women by looking at the proportion of the infertile population (which would be very silly), then you'd need to specify the infertile proportion of the female population. Why isn't that number given in this article? Because it would shoot down the premise of this silly season beat-up, that's why.
Respect to lesbians with babies, by the way. But they got nothing whatsoever to do with disappearing male chromosomes.
Laon, Sydney, Australia
Really? A useful discussion that ignores the fact that societies which have embraced feminism and marginalised the role of men are dying out.
However those societies that have remained "backward" and ruled by men are in many cases doubling and even tripling the replacement rate of 2.1 that our superior feminised societies are no where near hitting - except with the help of immigrant populations who insist on holding to their "backward" cultures.
Thabo, London,
Terse! Where's daddy?
Greville, Sydney, Australia
Why wait? with prenatal scanning we have the possibility of creating a much better world right now. Abolish the male and in an instant virtually wipe out all violent crime, rape, war and religious nonsense.
robin, LONDON, Britain
Eek! Count me out!
devorgilla, Edinburgh,
Interesting article. I hope my son never experiences any of these frustrations. There is no better sex, the pendulum is just swinging back to the female side these past few decades.
pauline, toronto, on
Rogers's complete misreporting of Kinsey leads me to doubt all of her other figures and assertions.
Kinsey did not find that 10% were exclusively homosexual. He found that 10% of males had been mostly (not exclusively) homosexual for some 3-year period at some point in their lives, often in their teens. The figure for females was much lower. As for this idea of 10% being completely heterosexual, where does that come from? - Rogers just made it up! The true figures from Kinsey (by implication from other figures he reports) are over 60% lifelong complete heterosexuality among males, much higher among females.
With such inaccuracy in the bit that I know about, I don't think the rest of the article is worth considering or debating.
But I do think Jean Booth's comments on testosterone and war should be answered. Few Western men have any input into war beyond voting for it, and in practice women are more likely to vote for war-mongers (look it up). I call it white feather syndrome.
G A, London, UK
I can't believe how such utter twaddle gets printed. The article is written by someone who needs a dose of reality. They are clearly brainwashed. The countries where masculinety still holds sway will see the feminised countries as ripe for conquest.
Peter, fortaleza, brazil
I suppose it's fortunate for future Maledom that the chinese and indians favour female infanticide as they do.
The future of human civilization doesn't depend on us in a west with a dwindling population and ever increasing reliance on the rest of the world.
Rather it depends on them. But feminists and their ilk can carry on trying to re-make the west in their image. It just means we'll stagnate, fall behind, and wither whilst the indians and chinese carry on being as sexist as they like.
Makes no difference to me in either the short, medium or long-term!
pete, accrington, uk
It takes a father to teach a boy how to be a man. A woman can never take that place. It's just not in her biological makeup to do it. Lesbians who adopt are selfish.
Ryan, Irvine,
Iteresting article. I percieve this will lead to a gradual feminisation of western society (indeed this is underway already), which will lead to increased social need for consensus on all issues (never have a comittee if you want to get things done), and a total aversion to all risk (the health and safety brigade). This is bad for individualism and creativity, which has been the vehicle by which western civilsation has blossomed over the last 1000 years. I doubt Columbus wore a hi-vis vest when he set sail to try find India.
We will see emergent nations in Africa, Asia and South America begin to dominate world events through increased innovation and willingness to take measured risk. Western society will simply stagnate, both emotionally, technologically, and culturally.
Shane, Guildford, England
Pfft, whatever.
You'd miss us.
Martin, St Andrews, Scotland
Well as long as this world's future parents are able to select male births over female - through the process of prenatal scanning and abortion of female foetuses - I can't see women biologically taking over the world anytime soon. Of more pressing importance to my mind, is that the world's PRESENT resevoir of testosterone seems so thoroughly bent on blowing the whole planet to 'kingdom come', no new female 'world order' will stand a chance. Although - with all human life wiped out - the new biological order might very well 'start over' from simple amoeba status!
Jean Booth, Hague, Netherlands
I think a lot of this has to do with men not dealing with equality all these years and globally women being treated like shit especially if they have children. A lot of women are oppressed by the church where more conservative views reign. Now, despite the interest in 'natural' and nature Hebdens 'idyllicness' for example, women are desperate to have children, gay or straight and are prepared to go to any lengths, because as long as we have known the world, this is what men have done.
I personally thought women would act better than this, because in the breakups of civil partnerships, that inevitably accompany the 'marriage' fights over children between the mothers are getting very dirty indeed, with racism and the demonisation of fathers included in the wash. Everyone in my opinion should have access to info about their origins. But maybe we should start developing an alternative spirituality that has a code of practice that includes the questioning of what we are capable of doing.
Ginaika, Leeds, West Yorkshire
Congratulations on being the next Hitler! :)
Would you prefer your men gassed or by lethal injection?
Would you rather start with the Jews, whites or blacks? Possibly your son, brother, husband or father?
you are talking about the genocide of the male species are you not?
Chris, Midlands,
Excellent and articulate summary of an issue with biological and social implications that are wide ranging an likely to be bitterly fought by church, state and interest groups across every country.
Annie Thompson, Gladstone, Australia
I think this is great.I would be willing to try it.I am with a woman who already has 6 kids-but i have none- i dont wanta have to get with a man to have one-i would like to produce one from both of us-that would be great.
Lc, frkln, ga