MPH 2008
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From The Times
January 8, 2008
Mamma’s boys
As Fabio Capello becomes England football manager, Richard Owen reports from Rome on an identity crisis among Italian men
Pity us poor Italian men, said Andrea, my barber in Rome, as he gave me my new year haircut. The other customers nodded. “Listen,” said one as he leafed through Corriere dello Sport and waited his turn. “We are all men here, I can be frank. Our women have become independent-minded, they all go out to work, they don’t cook so much any more, we have to look after ourselves. We are second-class citizens.”
Now wait, I said. What about Fabio Capello? Not only did he take over the England football squad yesterday, he is a fine example of Italian manhood: elegant, sharply dressed, supremely confident, a born winner. He even likes modern art. “Well, quite,” said another customer.
To the outside world, and not least to Brits, Capello looks like an Italian New Man, a new breed of Italian male. He is happily married to Laura, his wife of 40 years, has no dalliances on the side – at least, not as far as British tabloids have been able to discover – likes Bach and jazz, reads philosophy, goes to Mass, spends his holidays exploring archaeological ruins in Tibet or Colombia instead of chatting up women on the beach, collects Kand-inskys and Chagalls and cultivates Rome’s modern artists. A far cry, then, from the unscrupulous Lotharios of old. But a welcome advance and a sign of the times?
It does not look quite like that to many Italian men. They have a sneaking admiration for old-style Casanovas – men such as Silvio Berlusconi, a self-made businessman with a buccaneering style that has involved him in several brushes with the law (which he usually wins), a penchant for risqué jokes and an eye for the ladies, to the chagrin of Veronica, his stunningly beautiful wife, a former actress. Or Marcello Mastroianni, the actor with matinée-idol looks who made an art of appearing debonair, louche and charming.
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But Berlusconi is 71 and Mastroianni is dead, along with the dolce vita era that he embodied in Federi-co Fellini’s films. Many Italian men feel sorry for themselves in 21st-cen-tury Italy – browbeaten, overworked and underpaid. Even the famous Latin lover is exposed as a myth: one medical congress in Rome heard that six out of ten Italian women claimed to be “sexually dissatisfied” with their husbands, partners or lovers, according to a survey.
Chiara Simonelli, a sexologist at Rome University Hospital, says: “On the basis of my clinical experience, I can say that these statistics are inferior to reality.” She claims to know of many women in their thirties and forties who were opting for celibacy “in despair”.
Claudio Cricelli, the president of the conference, says that sexual frustration often leads to hypochondria, nervous problems and tension, adding that it was also probably one reason why Italy has such a low birth rate.
Another survey suggests that Italian men have even lost the art of picking up women – including foreign tourists – at beach resorts or in bars and pavement cafés. “Death of the gigolo” ran one headline.
And yet, underneath the gloom and self-pity, many Italian men still nurture an image of themselves as effortlessly superior beings who are born to run the world and to be admired for making a bella figura. And the reason is simple: their mothers tell them so.
While more Italian women are making careers and scoring belated victories for feminism, they are also — as mammas — doting on their male offspring in the way they always have. Take Capello’s widowed mother, Evelina Tortul, who told reporters when her son’s appointment as England manager was announced that she was “worried about my boy”, even though he is 61 and she is 85.
The media, she said at the modest flat in Pieris, near the Slovenian border, where she brought up her son and his sister Bianca, were “fine when you are winning, but when you lose they cut your throat. I’m his mother, so that is going to make me unhappy.” She added: “I wanted him to stay in Italy. He’s a big boy, he’s old enough to make his own decisions. But your mamma is always your mamma. Fabio was such a good boy . . . he comes here every summer and it’s always lovely to see him.”
Hardly surprising, then, that Italy’s “mamma’s boys” still think, in their heart of hearts, that they are God’s gift to women. About a third of Italian males, indeed, live at home until the age of at least 30, enjoying Mamma’s home comforts. Even when they marry, their wives know that their mothers-in-law are usually not far away and still have a powerful hold on their “big boys”.
As for feminism, every Italian newsstand is festooned with 2008 calendars depicting naked models and “showgirls”, who can also be seen on TV variety shows every night wearing not much more. No political correctness there, then.
According to Emma Bonino, the former European Commissioner and now Minister for International Trade and European Affairs, 11 per cent of Italian Members of Parliament are women, which is much the same proportion as 30 years ago.
Not only that, she says, but although it is true that more women go out to work, it is often part-time because there are few crèches for younger children and because older children have to be brought home by someone when school ends at lunchtime.
That someone, inevitably, is mamma. It is invariably the women who “make sacrifices” to ease the strains of daily life, Bonino says. So the lot of the Italian man is perhaps not so bad, after all — and the advent of the Italian New Man may still be some way off.
How Italian is your man?
1. After lunch, does he drink
a) a cappuccino
b) a camomile tea
c) an espresso macchiato
2. When driving on the autostrada, does he
a) Bowl along in the middle, occasionally veering without warning into
the overtaking lane
b) Edge tentatively into the slow lane and remain there unless
absolutely necessary
c) Weave expertly through traffic, driving very close behind anyone
doing less that 90mph in the fast lane and flashing his lights until they
pull over
3. At what age did he leave home?
a) 18
b) 28 (but only after his mother put her foot down about the washing)
c) Hey, what’s the hurry?
4. Does he regard a scooter as
a) A bit infantile but nevertheless quite fun at weekends
b) A cheap and efficient way to avoid the London congestion charge
c) An instrument of extreme manliness, especially when revved
excessively at traffic lights and with its exhaust modified so as to make an
ear-splitting noise
5. How many man-bags does he own
a) One (and it’s more of a briefcase, really)
b) None. No way
c) 17 (and that’s just from his autumn/winter collection)
6. Does he wear his jumper
a) Over his shirt
b) Around his waist
c) Tied jauntily, at an angle, over his shoulders
7. How many cashmere items does he own?
a) A few, mostly presents from you
b) 325 (not counting the socks)
c) One, moth-eaten
8. What kind of pants does he wear?
a) Crumpled boxer shorts
b) Very tight, white Y-fronts, bought and lovingly ironed by his mother
c) Stylish designer ones
9. Does he wear a vest?
a) Only in the height of winter
b) All year round, including August (you can never be too careful)
c) As soon as the temperature drops below 10C
10. When skiing, does he
a) Launch himself out of helicopters, power through the powder and
generally behave like a teenager on heat
b) Materialise, unsmiling in an all-in-one, at the top of the blackest
mogul run he can find before descending, skis glued together, in a
bum-wiggling display of prowess
c) Join the queue at the ski school and head out with a group of
six-year-olds
11. On the beach, does he emerge from beneath his towel wearing
a) Sand-bleached surfer-dude shorts
b) Tight black Speedos
c) Slightly small and slightly elderly swimming trunks
12. At weekends, he helps out with the children by
a) Drafting in his mother (or, worse, his terrifying spinster sister)
b) Taking them for a pizza while you treat yourself to a nice massage
c) Remembering a very pressing business meeting that can take place
only at the football stadium and is likely to last for at least four hours.
Ciao . . .
Answers
Answers: 1 a:1 point, b:2, c:3; 2 a:2, b:1, c:3; 3 a:1, b:2, c:3; 4 a: 2, b:1, c:3; 5 a: 2, b:1, c:3; 6 a: 1, b:2, c:3; 7 a: 2, b:3, c:1; 8 a: 1, b:3, c:2; 9 a: 1, b:3, c:2; 10 a: 2, b:3, c:1; 11 a: 2, b:3, c:1; 12 a: 2, b:1, c:3
If you scored 15 or under
Your man is not very Italian at all, is he? Perhaps he’s Swedish? No? Oh well, never mind. He may not rake in millions from babysitting spoilt football players, but at least he knows how to change a nappy.
15-20
Your man is distinctly al dente, but in a good way. Stylish, full of life, loyal, a little bit excitable — all the best things about being Italian. Maybe a little too fond of his Mamma, but there’s nothing wrong with that. Watch out that he doesn’t start to slide, though: if he starts doing things like tucking his napkin into his shirt, put your foot down.
20-plus
You’ve got yourself a proper Mamma's boy. There’s not a lot you can do about it while the sainted parent still walks this earth, so the best thing to do is get her on side. Swap depilation tips, share recipes (remember: hers are always superior). Keep your friends close, keep your mother-in-law even closer, as the Italians say . . .
It is true that a lot of us are MAMMA BOYS. It is true that a lot of us don't leave the parents' house before 30. It is also true that renting even a room in Italy is not so easy as it can seem (due to money lack most of the times).
Anyway I can see from these comments that there are also a lot of italian males living abroad and I don't think lots of them are more than 30 years old.
If it is true that this is an ironical article (as somebody has said in the early comments)...well it doesn't seem at all (and I guess it's true that one cannot recognize irony when English is not his mother tongue).
This is anyway an article that points out a problem which lastst since 30 years more or less...so nothing new to read.
I say that cliches are there and it's up to us to let them fade off...unfortunately people's mind is very difficult to change (that's why you can read of all the bunch of problems affecting our country).
I am anyway proud of being italian.
Donato, Roma, Montpellier, Italy, France
Oh my god!I read just a few answers of italian guys..absurd!!Someone said that they are best football players in the world..what a important worth!!And what about other sports??oh yes,you don't know abut it,you know only what is football..!!Love mum isn't a crime..but if mum became such as your girlfriend when you are 30-40,sorry,it is ridicolous!Certainly Italy is not in good period,politically said,but there's countries where the things goes not better and young people live on their own!It's just because you are mummish,how someone said:D!!
Finally in italy there're much Omosexsual,divorced and old people..so that is my answer about sexsual activity of italian guys..LoL ((No COMMENT..))...!!!!!!!!!!!ah ah ah!!
p.s: yes woman of the world say "wow macho italiano"..but what about the italian girls??maybe they had tried....:/..so they silent....>:V
bye bye
Miss.T, Rimini, Italy
It would be fair to have the same analysis ot the real English man and split it in two: during the working week and at weekends. Most of could already imagine the results.
Nice article, which gives you an idea of what's going on. On the other hand it's a good time for the NON-Mama boy. Less competition for the girls that want to find the real Italian man.
Marco, London,
I'ts totally thrue....What can i say? I woudl like to add another comment but Mamma is calling me and she's got to be nervous:( bye!!!
Alessio, Viterbo, Italy
Thank you very much Elvorne for your very substantial and complex analysis that gives an exhaustive answer to the whole matter.....and now you would excuse me but I have to go back to the mirror blowing kisses at my beatiful self!!!! Cheers and by the way there must be 150 flights everyday going back to where you come from...what is keeping you there if it makes you feel so incredibly lonely ? What a strange world...
Fabio, london, uk
I have read the article with much interest.
Italian society is indeed changing like anywhere else in the world.
On the other hand, I would like the correspondent from Rome to write a few notes about the Terza Età .
What is your point of view like?
Federica , Verona, Italy
Federica , Verona , Italy
Very funny, endeed. I enjoyed every single word of it. A bit of characterization is allowed to add drama, and the rest is right to the point.
The survey is the best part, though some answers need a little update. My fellow countrymen don't understand why English people ridiculize their behaviour? That's sad: since self-criticism is out of question, a bit more of sense of humor wouldn't do any harm.
I don't find this piece offensive at all. And offensive comments reveal stupid authors, whether they're Italians or Britons.
Guido, Milano, Italy
Oh the article is delightful, and so are the comments. What a topic and what timing - I love how every Italian seems to think this article is somehow intended as a direct attack on their own person. The very way in which their answer (comments) is sparked is exactly the 'thing' being ridiculed. (Ooops, was I not supposed to say that just yet?) But don't give up guys, please give us more of that Italian bravado the Times have so brutally tried to assasinate with this article; give us more juicey reasons to love your insecure selves; give us more Macho.
One thing you notice more and more in Rome at the clubs and parties, is how incredibly ghostlike and vain people (Italians) are. Everybody stare at themself in the mirror all the time, talking and blowing themselves kisses (I'm not kidding); it's like walking through a very noisey ghost town. A room filled with lifeless aparitions, well dressed, but insubstantial...
Elvorne R Palmer, Rome, Italy
...such and such country, bordering dangerously on bad taste, when not on racism. We are so defensive about this because we're in a foreign country, and when you're abroad you naturally feel more attached to the place you come from. By the way, I would like to see what happened if an article like this on English people appeared on an Italian newspaper...
When all it's said and done...I think individuals count, with all their differences. I know English mommy-boys and grumpy, grey Italians who can't cook and are crap in bed (so their partners say!), so every controversy is just pointless. But I would like to see a bit more respect in this extent. Otherwise there's no wonder people I meet claim I can't be Italian because I'm too tall and not suntanned enough (and I swear it happened!).
Cheers,
Luca
Luca Rusnighi, coventry, United Kingdom
I just would like to know why English journalists and, in general, English people are so mean and sarcastic when speaking about Italy and the Italians. Is it because our way of living, justly referred to as "Dolce Vita", is 10.000 times better that the cold British one? Is it because we are the most stylish in the world, while most English ppl dress up like clowns? Is it because we are the best lovers and women all around the world find us attractive as soon as we say "Sono Italiano, dolcezza"? Is it because we dominate the world of football? Is it bc many foreign ppl want to move to Italy? Is it because we eat like gods, while the best England can offer is "fish'n chips"? I tend to believe that English people are simply jealous of Italy. Yes, we love our mothers so much...what's the problem with that? What I find disgusting is to know that you leave your families at 18. Family is the most important thing in life. If you want to enjoy life and learn something about it, come to Italy.
Salvatore, Napoli, Italy
Poor guy.
Knows too little about Italy (so he got to talk about Dolce Vita, Berlusconi, Pizza, Pasta and Mandolino),
Knows too little about Cappuccino (never tasted something nearly similar to a real Cappuccino in England...and, sir, we drink it BEFORE lunch).
Knows too little about English people (that poor guys you find in a pub at 6pm (an hour of WORK in Italy) with theirs 20 beers on the table (and, as, I saw, recently, they don't finish the beers but leave a few in the end 'cause it's too hot for them, they got so much money to giva away).
Certainly, Italy could be much more rich.
If we'd ask to pay 16 euros to tourist to see every church in Rome we could be more rich.
If we'd ask 6,50 euros for a single travel in the underground (in Roma is 1!) we could be more rich.
But we don't, we leave churches free and buses cheap cause not everyone can be rich and we love even people who are not.So who's best?Not you, brave guy who didn't even sign your article.
Poor guy...
Nicola d'Amati, Roma, Italy
If for example I know how to change a nappy, or I drive respecting traffic signs, or I have not more than 3 cashmere items, or I use my man-bag for work every working day (and of course I have to change it more or less after three years of use) Am I an Italian or not ? Please I'm losing my own identity !!! Nevertheless please don't overgeneralize I'm not thinking that British are too cold or they use to bit people Friday night after 5 pints of beer. At last only a final question: is it true that your correspondent lives in Rome?
Thanks
from Roma (Italy) A.D. 2008
Roberto, Rome, Italy
I would simply say one thing, a lot about woman growing social position that is felt as something like a "menace" by men its true, even if we shouldn't feel threatened
I also add another thing, i love my mother of course and i like being at home even if i'm 27, but... i'm graduated, i have 1,5 year experience in PR and a master in marketing and the last job it was offered to me was 700€ per month. Yes we love our mothers, but in this country, the "meravigliosa" italy, a lot of people, man and women, simply cannot afford to live without family support.
As italian, this stereotype of the Italian man tha does not leave home because he would miss his "mumma" is really offensive.
Marco Tosti, Roma, Italy
It seems that for many foreign journalists it's absolutely necessary to mention Casanova, Fellini, la dolce vita, Berlusconi, latin lovers and the "mamma" - of course - whenever they write something about Italy. And the test "How Italian is your man?" at the bottom of the page is a good collection of stereotypes too. Indeed, according to most of my answers I should be Swedish. Isn't the Times included among quality newspapers?
Simone Ramella, Rome, Italy
I agree God is English with a very annoying British accent, but we are better than you: we have the Godfather...
Luca Palazzotto, Georgetown, Guyana
I am from Italy (male, 21 years old) and live here.
I think this article is right, totally right.
The most of people i know are perfectly described in the poll.
Nothing else to say.
Francesco, Bologna, Italia
Referring to question 10: have you ever seen a Brit skiing? After some gallons of beer, they go down the slopes as fast as gravity allows, without the faintest idea of how to drive the 2 strange pieces of wood they have at their feet.
Alberto Mazza, Milan, Italy
Nikki Ciocca, Limassol.
I loved your comments., I have got a mummy's boy. (and girl).
Nothing warms my heart more than having my now late teenage kids hanging around the house talking, joking, laughing (some times crying) - or whatever......
Both children are very capable of looking after themselves, but I love to run around after them, still ....... cooking, cleaning, taxi service, whatever.
I will miss it when they are gone, and I hope they will. Time passes by too quickly, blink and youv'e missed it.
Family life is priceless, doesn't matter where you're from.
Louise, Mirfield, England
Not so "mummish" but also not so open-minded!
Certainly not self-humor gifted!
Thank God, mine went out from home when he was 18...
Francesca, Ancona, Italy
Well Richard, what about women and daddies?If Italian men are Mamma's boys, then Italian women are Mamma's girls-BOTH men and women don't earn enough to live on their own+they love and are loved by parents that have raised them to feel compassion and charity+they humble themselves and go on living with them, swallowing their pride and allowing themselves to be mothered AND fathered (+financially supported)into their 30s and 40s (by parents who in turn have little money to spare).
Here's a snapshot from REAL Italian life: in an eating hall today at lunch, a man in his 20s ended a conversation with his dad on the mobile saying'alright, I'll tell you about it all later and will take care of dinner. I love you and kiss you many times, daddy.' Then I ate my food in front of a man in his 40s who poured some water into his finished plate of soup(to avoid crud sticking to the plate, being considerate to the dinnerladies who will clean it), smiled, wished me buonappetito+a great day and left
Ulla, Florence, Italy
Where do i start???
First of i like to say speaking of what i have seen first hand sorry to say mothers in italy well i'm shocked they let them do anything, as for english fathers with daughters least they can do as they wish so to speak, but as for english mums, well need i say more point is every one is different from everyone else.As for me yes i'm english and for the past 6 months i've been here (In rome).I'm getting married to a lovely stunning italian lady who i love so much and i will be moving over for good.One thing i can't stand and at times i hate to be english is when italians see me its' hey english man you drink too much! ' its offensive but its a label us BRITISH have to wear when aboard if we like it or not..Regards to Capello being english coach (its a very bad day) but seems no english manager is good enough so from a english guy good luck to him ..Anyway my last thought england should be renamed land ' WIPE YOUR FEET ON WAY IN ' brown & co should start kicking ARSE
Chaz, Wigan, uk
Rubbish! So why most of you brits are so in love with italians? Well, I know it's hard to confess it, but just like everybody else in the world you brits love italian food, italian design, italian fashion, italian glamour.. and -most of all - you brits feel envy of italian men, even for their mom's love and care!
Romano , London,
Always ready to learn... any English ladies out there volunteering to teach? ;-D
Pier, London,
I am married to a lovely englishman! BUT his parents are sicilian and Italian.
This makes for a lovely mix.
His has italian traits which I love and of course depending on who is winning at football he will change allegiance at the drop of a hat.
He likes Cappuccino and expresso and Tea
He weaves through traffic but then you have to in Italy or you will be stuck forever at a junction.
Oh his a great cook and dresses well too.
MNKB, Bucks, uk
I think the journalist should analize the British protype and compare him with the Italian one. As a woman with very high expectations I do support Italian stallions rather than the typical booze-filled British men. No matter what!
Valeria, London,
It's so embarassing to verify how this kind of stereotypes still remains
so strong.
Sincerely, attacking our culture, way of life and style in such a poor way, seems like
english people are affected by a sense of inferiority, and the reference to Capello (a real winnner)
and his mother confirm my sensation. Really hope this is true only to english writers.
We stay at parents home till 30 and over; it is right.
The bith rate is very low;it is right too.
The journalist should underline in the same way that young people are so underpaied (when able to find a job)
that cannot pay the rent for an house.And making a family before 30 is more than a dream.
Probably we love our mothers in a more evident way; we are this way, with positive and negative sides, as john brightly says,
I can't understand why this should be trahsed
vincenzo , milan, italy
Luxus 2001: I am flattered by your comments but I have a super macho Italian husband waiting for me at home.
Thank you, anyway!
ciao
Angela
angela, london, uk
I am an italian woman that lives in UK. I can only that English men appreciate a lot italian women but Italian women prefer italian men....Are they envy?
Roberta, Belfast, UK
It seems that for many foreign journalists it's absolutely necessary to mention Casanova, Fellini, la dolce vita, Berlusconi, latin lovers and the "mamma" - of course - whenever they write something about Italy. And the test "How Italian is your man?" at the bottom of the page is a good collection of stereotypes. Indeed, according to most of my answers I should be Swedish. Isn't the Times included among quality newspapers?
Simone Ramella, Rome, Italy
Poor "The Times"...
God save this glorious "newspaper"....
Stefano, Milan,
I can't believe how ridicoulus "news" can be..
Gabriella, London,
People here seem to have forgotten the fact that God is English, and that does give us a slight advantage, I know because I've seen his passport.
Nicholas Halsey, Silkeborg, Denmark
I've already posted a comment here, and I've read all the subsequent posts, both from Italians and non-Italians.
I've a doubt and I'd like it could be resolved by an Britishman: is it possible that in UK people tolerate "non-seriuos" articles on seriuos newspapers? In other words, I've read some posts signed by Britishmen saying Mr. Owen's work was ironic, implying neither the Author nor his (British) readers consider it a seriuos description of Italian men. In Italy we expect that high quality newspapers (such as The Times) would publish only high quality (or intended to be) articles, leaving ironic and superficial analysises to the Italian counterpart of tabloids. Seen in this way, is it possible that this is only a cultural misunderstanding? I must admit that, even if I'm right, the article remains really annoying, even if my opinion on MrOwen has improved.
PS: I beg all not to post stereotypes on Britishmen: it's childish and unproductive,moreover stereotypes are always obnoxio
Stefano, Milan, Italy
I think that that's just a funny article, written to make people laugh about something. In any British newspaper there are funny jokes about British people's typical behaviour, and they just laugh about it. I saw it during all the three years I lived in the UK, during which I felt very welcome and respected by the local people... probably all these angry comments are just an expression of how we Italians are touchy and with a low sense of humor.
Costanzo, Turin, Italy
So many stereoptypes! what a shame...should we speak about those horde of englishman walking drunk in our cities ?
Marco, Milano,
Latino fiery temper? English dry wit? Want to escape from Emilia-Romagna? I ask how much people are ignorants of Italy and blindly believe in the stereothypes, almost always without ever having been in Italy if not as tourists. Could I know WHAT the English have of so peculiar to arrogate themselves the right to JUDGE other people and giving marks? Because they "win the wars"? Ah yes? Frankly I don't find in history a SINGLE WAR where the British have won ALONE (without STRONGER ALLIES) against Europeans -except naturally in Third World countries and in Ireland. But this is not the topic of this article. Well, at least, I would like to suggest the Brits that in SOME PART of Italy (NORTH) we have a social system of "welfare", with services working, compared to which Britain looks like an African-country (with respect for the Africans). What one can expect from a Briton "common man" who for centuries was ruled, flogged and hanged by his aristocracy, then claiming to be "free and proud"?
Denni, Reggio Emilia,
You are crazy...you don't know Italians...so hot so full of love...you are cold...grey as your life...Respect Italians and Capello before leave your patetic soccer team!!! Ah in Italy on says that English people are dirty and change panties twice a week!!! But I think is only a urban legend...I hope...Ciao from Italy...and don't break the ITALIAN balls!!!
Alberto, Manduria, ITALY
Italians for me (execerpts of...)
The Good
Please fill in...
The Bad (or just plain embarassing..)
Berlusconi
Mussolini
Please fill in...
The ugly
Any goodfella (Riina, Provenzano)
Please fill in
but never dull...
Vincent
Vincent Schwager, Milan, Italy
Reading the comments here it seems that many Italian men are happy to accept positive stereotypes but throw a tantrum when negative ones are mentioned. And they're all too happy to throw negative steretypes around about the British too, while ignoring the positive ones. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with a mother loving her son or the son staying at home until he's 30 if that's the custom. But there's nothing wrong with going for a few drinks with friends, or even getting drunk sometimes either.
john, London, England
Extremely extremely proud of being Italian my English friends, i love our cuisine, i love our fashion and our cars, i love our women and i love our world cup winning soccer team, but i also love my mother, what good son wouldn't. I was born in the usa but my blood is 100% italian, i believe in Italy and know that it's a beautiful country with beautiful people. I'm sorry but you English journalists must try harder to disocurage my Italian pride. Italia nel cuore!
Dino , queens,
D, from Maryland.
Love the post...you are Right as Rain.
Miles, Milwaukee, USA
As an Englishman who has lived and worked in Italy, I can attest that Italians are great people. Certainly, life is slower, but Italians seem a lot happier than the English. I really think that the English have really forgotten how to enjoy themselves, and spend their time drinking just to forget the fact they have forgotten how to live.
I have to disagree with comments saying that Italian men are more desirable than their English counterparts. From my experience, Italian women find English men quite desirable!
Paul, Osaka,
Mita, that was a great comeback! I always thought I wasn't that typical for an English guy but I was edging close to full marks (albeit I insist my boxers are always clean thankyou!) :-)
I have a bunch of Italian mates in England and when I'm there we always take the mickey with each other a bit (easiest way to annoy any Italian is to put pineapple on a pizza or stare at a espresso machine as it pours out a mugful of hot water).
Just have a laugh guys - I really don't know who these whinging folk are that the Times always gets bucket loads of comments from everytime it makes a light-heated comment about anywhere (and it does it about home often enough - Ted Saffron and English women case in point).
Dave Williams, Beijing, China
The Latino fiery temper and the English dry wit are alive and well. The author has clearly baited his hook and dangled it in the water. He can't reel in the line quickly enough he has so many bites.
Edward, London,
Richard, you probably forgot we Italians are not as good at humorous wit and self-irony as you Englishmen are at self-deprecation: we don't believe you all are Alan Partridge! A-HA!! :-D
Giuseppe, Manchester,
Lighten up a little Mamma's boys, even I can see that this article is not meant to be serious, it really is dry English humour, tongue in cheek and not meant to offend anyone. I do realise that when English is your second language it can be difficult to understand irony, but I assure you, it's there.
Nicholas Halsey, Silkeborg, Denmark
Alas, as an Italo-Australia, we have to live with the very embarrassing image/stereotype of Italian men that Berlusconi has only served to perpetuate. An Aussie woman (gorgeous of course) married to an Italian once commented on why Italian men are more attentive to their wives...it is because they are repaying them the attention/doting they received as children from their mamma's. So why not??
Berlusca is an embarrassment in every respect, and yes, Italy is such a great and bad place all at once. It is hell to live there, but am proud of so much that is Italian.
Fulvio, Sydney, Australia
this is not a quarrel...I really admire(d) brits and what they did, discovered and invented.This history has been wroted by brits.You're the forerunner of almost every science and progresse.YOU discovered democracy with magna charta,did not ancient Greece, Roma or France.YOU gave a start to imperialism, anti-imperialism, modern economy rules, globalization, sport in the way we know and love it (soccer, motorsports and so on...).You've been so far-seeing to protect yourself from Euro-money fraud.Modern art ,music ,showbiz is ONLY brit in my opinion.I know we're now poor folks,we're not civic minded,we're maafia criminals ,we hate each other (specially neapolitans;- p).What I really cannot comprehend is this widespread self-satisfaction.Once I thought I could find such polls on the Sun.All this let me notice a huge need of regard.What the hell!Just try to imagine what else could you have done during this time(and why people from all abroed comes here to stay & live) wonderly
Edoardo, Padova, Italy
Buongiorno !
I am an Italian guy from Rome, living in London. Your article sounds just like very those we had to read about the "Italian spaghetti, mafia, mamma..", it doesn't sound any new probably because of a superficial analysis. Have you considered professionally (as a journalist should do) economical and social background ? If you do, you might not only write something more interesting, but mostly understand why Italians stay home up to 30. The last questionaire was a bit offensive "how Italian is your man?".. I scored less than 15 and I behave just like any other Italian. However, we like laughing and giving to Caesar what is due to Caesar,
Daniele
PS Wish England all the best with Capello
Daniele Milo, London, UK
Stereotype (as usual). I spent two years in your country and I've never found anybody able to have fun without the help of some sort of alcohol. The sad thing is that you are convinced that that is infinitely more cool than being a mamma boy. Maybe if your first average salary is 600£ per month, which is by the way the average rent of a studio flat in the suburb of Rome, you would consider staying at home until you get a normal salary. About lovemaking, I'm a bit bored of doing always the war for whom has it longer, but me and other Italians I know were quite successful in UK, actually I some time had just to say that I was Italian to get the interest of all the girls around. The same when I've been in France and Germany. Just luck?
Andrea Fanelli, Rome,
My Lord make me Italian. Again and again.
Give style, art, good food and that irresistible accent.
Give me Michelangelo, Leonardo and Raffaello.
Give me Florence, Rome and Venice.
Give me ravioli, lasagna and tortellini.
Give me an Italian mum. Again and again.
Daniele Milizia
Daniele Milo, London, UK
My italian is not so italian, according to this test... and I'm proud of him, he's a great guy!
I think that is all based in a stereotype, it's necessary to say that not all the italians are made in the same way.
Maybe if my italian were as it was described in your test, I would never marry him!
WHAT A MONSTER!!!
Diana, Milano, Italia
Excepting giving you the civilization,starting from the ABC, a good reason to say thank and shut up, what the hell is the problem with us?
Even if partially true what's wrong with this?
why do you care so much... weren't you be loved?
Do this represent a problem for your society?Aren't we perverted and libertine enough to join your evolved standard? is this so ridicolous to grow up in a hugging place, and feel sure. why are you so against-mother complexed?do you know how your kids are unsure and violent, get the relationship!
My parents gave me love and indipendency, i surely have been(and still am) bellodimamma, at the same time i do all the house works much better than my wife, including washing and excelling in cooking! let me be mammone...
MIK, VENEZIA, ITALY
How English is your Man?
1-After lunch does he drink:
1) Cappuccino (2 p)
2) Espresso (1p)
3) 2 whiskeys and 3 Lager.. just to swallow the meal (3 p)
2-When driving on the highway does he:
1) Drive carefully taking the left and overpassing only when safe (2 p)
2) Weave expertly through traffic, driving very close behind anyone doing less that 90mph in the fast lane and flashing his lights until they pull over (1 p)
3) Sleep on the backseat cause his license was dumped years ago for drink + driving (3 p)
8- What kind of pants does he wear?
1) none (2 p)
2) Boxers, quite dirty and stinky I shall add... (3 p)
3) Clean design pants (1 p)
11. On the beach, does he emerge from beneath his towel wearing
1) his white/sicklike tan (2 p)
2) he never goes on the beach with a swimsuit. He scrolls dressed on gray, lovely British coastlines (3 p)
3) a swimsuit (1 p)
By the way, Espresso black is the most common "after lunch"!
Go on with the Brits!
Mita Aureli, Rome, Italy
I think Richard Owen is simply doing his job: writing about the world and reality in a professional way. The approach he held towards the subject is, I find, all in all balanced and unpretentious. Moreover, we should not underestimate that we are commenting upon a newspaper article, which you read today, and throw away tomorrow, because there are other news and comments to replace the old ones. That said, as an Italian living in Italy after living on the British Isles for nearly a decade - I loved each and every day of my time there - I would issue a word of caution against generalisations. Italy is a very complex country and I myself find it dazzling to travel fifty miles and find myself somewhere totally different with different people. One thing is sure: Ms. Bonino's remark notwithstanding, Italian society is deeply matriarchal. and this feature permeates it at all levels and has many consequences. In any event I love my mother and thank God for making me so fortunate to have her.
Roberto Ruggiu, Rome, Italy
for any futher comment on italian values ask to journalist's mother she knows them very welll....
Kent burger, Boston,
If Italians are Mamma's boys, English are all chips without fish......eheheheh!!!!
Silvio (born in Milan), London, Italy
Silvio, London, UK
Funny article. Nothing wrong with being a bit spoilt, most ladies actually go crazy for mamma's boys types
Lello Villani, croydon, uk
It is well known that only two women ever had perfect sons, Mary and Italian mothers. I often wonder why the rest of the world is so fascinated with us.
Orlando, Pittsburgh, PA, USA
A mamma’s boy or a drunk english man with a beer in his hand?
The english women are full of doubts!
Mmmh,i don't know...
Paolo, Milan, ITALY
Gosh, we are quite sick of being criticized by foreign reporters. Do you really believe an English mother would not worry about his 60 year old son? Maybe she would not speak it out, just as simple as that. What do you think Capello's mother should tell the reporters? "Oh, the hell, who cares where my son goes?" She was just nice and in a good humour.
Italians are very different people, but they have the common habit of talking too much about their defects with anyone, including foreign reporters. Who are so happy to put it on the news!
Carla Bergamo, São Paulo, Brasil
If we are mamma's boys then you are a people of drunks or middle gays... I really don't know what is better... I live in Barcelona and when you see in the rambla an harassing drunk or a dirty girl with a bitch slap rappin' you can be shure: they're English!!! And then they think they are the best that God could conceive in the this fuckin' world.
This is what people from all the world who live in Barna say about English people...
But let me tell you, I'm not this kind of people.
I DON'T LIKE TO JUDGE SUMMARILY because I know very good guys and girls from England.
Ciao a tutti i ragazzi che vivono a londra
Roberto, Barcelona, Spain
A little bit more or less of prejudice will not add or subtract anything to present situation
zichi, milan, italy
Did you really write all this rubbish just because you don't like Fabio Capello? I always have had a great opinion of UK mass media. Probably I was wrong (maybe because I didn't know enough about it? Like you don't know enough about us...)
Francesco Pratolongo, Haarlem, Netherlands
The whole reason they're picking on Italian men is because British men aren't as interesting or sexy.
I'm glad for my Italian husband, his sweaters, boy bags and his relationship with his mother.
Ciao
Maria, Milan, Italy
I have seen Mamma's boy's all over Emilia-Romagna, where I have spent far too much time and couldn't wait to leave.
The guys either live at home forever partly for financial reasons ( I accept) but also because mamma does everything for them, or La Mamma buys them or builds them a house a few metres away, and then they are forever in debt to La Mamma.
If they do manage to escape La Mamma they must visit for breakfast, lunch, dinner, washing and when is required by La Mamma, no matter what they are doing.
In terms of work, the ones I have met don't want to work, until the perfect job comes, so they end up 30+ with no experience in anything?
Of course, this is all a generalisation, but one that occurs 9/10 times? And, it isn't a sign of how much they are loved, it seems it is a demonstration of a needy group of women who want men to need them for their whole lives.
Jane, London,
Better than being drunk English men.
Mamma's boys, Alassio,
italiano pasta, pizza, mozzarella, mandolino and..MAMMA..the dolce vita is over, pull your socks up and grow up. Oh yes, ALWAYS FORZA ROMA, WE'LL WIN THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
saltyboy, Dublin, Ireland
Italian have style...english i don't now...we can speak with our girl because we aren't always drunk like english guy...fashion,football,girls,history,girls,mountains,sea and sun...MAYBE ARE YOU JEALOUS?????I'm italian..Thanks God!!!!
Seida, Como, ITALY
Ok, maybe our newspaper are full of pictures of almost naked girls. so what?
I think it is always better than your beckham's photo above!!
what d'you think?
Alessandro, Genoa, Italy
Is it possible that even being mamma's boys is Berlusconi's fault to some (btw I love the fact your name is Silvio).
Thunderstorm in Chicago today: thank you Berlusconi!
pietro, chicago, USA
Well said Nico. Its true. I live in South Africa amongs many ex Brits: amongs such cosmopolitan society they feel at home with Italians and the Italian ways. Hey David lets not be to judgemental on the English ways of life(even thought you quite right there). Bear in mind one day they might want to be part of Europe, at last...
Bruno, Johannesburg, RSA
Carlo, one other thing I learnt after moving to Milan is that Italian men are also very proud of being Italian! So I understand your reaction, but seriously, altought you may be the exeption (in fact you are abroad!), I agree 100 % with this article.... unfortunately young / old Italian men are just "mummy´s boy" with an unrealistic "image/idea" of women (you just need to wacth your TV, where you will see 23 years old bimbos in bikini, next to 80 years old presenters...)
Regina, Milan, Italy
I just wanted to say, as a language teacher, that I'm impressed with how many Italian people living in Italy can respond in such good English. Sure, most posts aren't perfect - but neither are most posts by native English-speakers. I left the UK because of the bad standard of grammar. I couldn't stand to hear it any more and was afraid my English would crumble.
P.S. I ADORE pasta and would be willing to be served a nice meal by a real Italian!
Tina, Dusseldorf, Germany
Fellow Italians,
I thought we had more sense of humour than that: don't get so touchy. Be happy and don't take everything so seriously: we can learn a lot from Brits as much as they can learn a lot from us. And i bet Richard Owen enjoys a lot his life in Rome!
Luca, Milan
Luca, Milan, Italy
Naturally this is a semplification "English-way". As many other people have stated in Italy is not to easy to find a house to go away at 18 years old. Also, in the name of "flexibility", jobs are harder to find and to keep. Anyway, reality is far from stereothipes, Italian men do work with their women, and mums remain with dads at THEIR home. And at least... the Italian Men... are... in majority.... MEN, not an indifferent humanity "proudly claiming" to be "the best" incapable of suriving without alchool.
Best Greetings to the "Models".
Denni, Reggio Emilia,
Richard,
I think that you have tried to draw a line but remember that English are not famous for being talented painters!!!
I can say that I can cook a very nice linguine with big scallops with only 20 quid and are definitely better than the one prepared by Gordom Ramsay.
Though I reckon that the beef wellington is great.
Please draw a line with regards to English men.
I bet the picture would result very disappointing.
How do you do? I really think you do not have to!
Alessandro, NW1, London.
alessandro, london,
I think this article is funny and in some way tender toward us. But next time I’d suggest to introduce an important factor: Italians (I for one) believe that we may be split in two categories (fifty-fifty), "i furbi & i fessi" (clevers & stupids). This factor is so important, that can invalidate any test. I'm a stupid: I respect the speed limits, I pay my taxes, I'm able to queue up (that is: I’m not able not to do it). I could own 325 cashmere items, but I do NOT weave expertly etc. Still I'm a mammone.
I liked a lot Ian Fisher’clever humour on The New York Time: “…[Italy] is the place in a hyper-regulated Europe where people still debate with perfect intelligence what, really, the red in a stoplight might meanâ€. Obviously it's not true, but portrays our character.
---
I don't know why we are so analysed lately, but I’m sure our psychologists love us. They seem to be worried about the fact we Italians are getting more and more depressed - it's true - they want us singing, as always.
Antonio M., Verona,
well , too bad is only stereotype and envy.
you can only dream to be an italian , to live in a country
where there is beauty in every corner , to have our lifestile.
you been obsess with italy ,shakespear and your lousy movies made in italy are an example.
you are bullies and have a false sense of superiority
like the american. can someone tell me why
you left hong kong and you still occupy the small piece of land in spain? afraid of a beating from the chinese?
i dislike capello because he can win somethink
for a nation that i dislike (people) because i understand
what an italian can do!!! so long looser
micheal, chicago, usa
I can't believe you are able to publish such an unpolitically correct and prejudices-filled article! Maybe, too much politically correctness at home and a little bit out of track when talking about our cultures, just maybe...
You should have developed the only good point you mentioned in the article, the fact that just 11 % of women are MPs. Italy is a beautiful and at the same time horrible place, a civilized/uncivilized one, the one that I love and that I hate at the same time. The one which does not guarantee the same rights to everyone, as is it much more the case in the Uk. Please, talk about gay rights in Italy, talk about female segretation in the labour market, talk about disgusting politics, but please do not give us these old clichés and stereotypes about Italy, it really hurts.
Enrico, London, UK
The article was written to have some fun...
I am Italian, but I spend most of the time working abroad. Many years ago I had an English boss: every Saturday night he used to leave his wife and his daughter at home, in order to spend the night at the pub with his friends. He used to take a taxi in order to drink a lot without any risks for his driving licence. Is this British lifestyle ? I still believe that women prefer to spend Saturday night with their men. Men that pay attention to women and not to bottles. Call it Italian lifestyle if you want....:-)
alberto, rome, italy
And look at the English family unit....the english moan about everyone .....when they should be looking at themselves ..they are always at the bottom of the pile...and football...absolutely useless!!!!..you should it give up!
Yan, london, uk
So having family values and not caring about political correctness is a bad thing. Pictures of naked woman and showgirls on calendars at every newstand, that is terrible. Yes they should have more woman politicans but every time I go on holiday to Italy I love it, especially the woman, food, wine and football. Italian woman don't seem lowly and you don't have to worry about getting your head kicked in on a Friday night, in particular if your with a goodlooking woman, not like Blighty!!
Liam , Ipswich ,
I am an Italian woman and I do not think most of the english boys and men are much better than this stereotype of the italian ones: are they really so respectful of women ? so concerned about sharing the strain of daily life? aren't they interested in watching naked models and showgirls on english tabloid?
tiziana, milan, italy
What Owen has written is in part true, many Italian men prefer to stay at home with all the comforts given by mums instead of leaving soon getting indipendence which means also to make lots of sacrifices. I would add that it is not explained very well the reasons of this, mainly due to lack of money, the low salary everybody gets!
About the sex, I might say that despite many foreigner rivals we are still the best Casanovas......anyway good article!
FRANCO, LONDON,
Richard,
If you think that all the Italian males are "mamma's boys", I should think that all the Britons are alchoolic! As the editor of "Der Spiegel" two years ago, who wrote something like you,( and the website was forced to delete everything and to apologize- I received their email ), it should be the shame to have an Italian managing your football team that pushes you to offend a whole nation.You're right to laugh about the "mamma boys",but I'm a good chef, I've always been able to clean my flat alone, I irons my shirts, I think to be a good lover ( if a women call back after a night, it should be so!), so please if you are able to do so, give me the evidence!
More, maybe if in this country (UK, where I live and where I pay my taxes, so I'm entitled to speak out) there will be more "mamma boy's", we won't have 27 teenagers knifed in London in the 2007 and the A&E and ambulances working just with the drank people ( with my taxes ).
Good luck and wake up,the Empire is over.
Carlo Brindisi, London, United Kingdom
I don't know . . . the Italian men here seem to be perfectly charming to me :)
If I were Angela, I'd seriously consider taking Luxus 2001 up on his offer!
Sunshine, USA,
It's quite correct! But it's also true that italian people have many difficult to "evolve", thanks to his political class. No work, no homes, criminality.This is the real problem in Italy. In that conditions is normal that people have this behaviour.
When the air is no pure, cough is the consequence, not the problem. At Mastroianni's times, italian people was surely more happy than now. Not only young people could spend his own time, in pleasant and more natural activity, such as loving.
I'am italian, but actually I must to came in Englend to feel me better!
Cciao ciao
Massimo, Abruzzo, italy
Say whatever you want but I Thank God for being italian and not British.
I'd rather spend time with my mum than at the pub, after work with my colleagues drinking pints on pints.
And yes...I still thank my mum for only having taken me to McDonalds maybe once every month, for not having given birth to me at the age of 12, for not raising me up thanks to state benefits, for having given me a strong moral sense.
Oh..and this rant is coming from an Italian that has lived by himself in London since the age of 18.
David, London,
Hey! what's wrong about drinking expresso after lunch..? i have that all time..;) it defenetely taste better than the long british coffee !
As for the mamma's boy i suppose there's a little truth about that but not for the reason it's being stated ..more for the lack of jobs and welfare state has to be blamed! what italians might need from Britain then is a bunch of honest politicians the will run the country for the next 10 years or so with integrity and legality ! What Britain might need instead from Italy is all the rest about men including Capello! Good luck!
Robert, glasgow, UK
I'm Italian, living in Italy.
I've found the article quite funny.
Of course, there are some stereotypes, but, come on, Italian fellows, it's not a sociological essay!
It's a good piece of journalism which gives a right and concise idea of Italian men (me included for some features!)
Nico
Nico, Roma, Italy
this article is very nice.
I laughed all the time...
gianfranco liotta, Catania-Sicily, I
I don't see why so many of you are so defensive. Surely if you realise that this test is ridiculous you should ignore it, rather than sinking to the level of the journalist that wrote it. As is true of anything in life, stereotypes exist if you're looking for them, but are also untrue if you want them to be. Can't you see the irony of complaining about the image that we have of Italian men here in England, then going on to say that English men are fat, drunk, aggressive etc?
On the subject of Italian men being desirable to English women, it's always easier to be successful with women when you're in a foreign county, that includes English men in Italy. But then I'm not fat and I don't drink alcohol, so maybe the girls in Italy didn't realise that I was English!
Michael Orland, Carlisle,
MY Italian man loves his expresso (not macchiato), is a high achiever (and not just in bed!), adores me and the kids, and, oh yes, loves his mamma too! I wish my sons will turn out to be like him.
Jane, Brisbane, Australia
Unfortunately there is a modicum of truth in stereotypes. I believe most Italians would agree with this commentary. My personal experience, though, has been quite different. My Italian mother always believed in being honest to a fault. My five brothers and I were not the most beautiful, and we were not always innocent when the police brought us home for fighting. On the other hand I cannot think of any better mother than what I had. Though I do not consider myself an Italian man, I was proud to have an Italian mother. I will always envy Italian men for the women they have and produce. This is my J’ accuse to Italian women in general.
Miles, Milwaukee, USA
ITALIAN HERE - Congratulation for this masterpiece, looks like english people are the best in the world and, the most important, gentle and educated. Yes, the same people that wrote down this "low profile" article.
DINO, MILANO, ITALIA
Only a question... Do English journalists have something else to do by day (apart from writing)? Get a life, thanks!
Pietro, Rome, Italy
The writer should have prefixed this with,
' this is a joke, please don't take it too seriously, actually I quite like Italians'.
Jason White, Paris,
Rubbish article .Richard Owen should know better,how long is been reporting from Italy?The main reason boys stays at home till 30 or even later is only financially,of course there are some exceptions but you can't generalise like that.Also they may stays at home because they have loving families and if they have not found the right partners who can blame them .About me for example,I left home at 25 to came to live in England(I fell in love with an English girl) my brother lived with my parents till he was 37 but only because couldn't afford a house,and there are hundreds of thousands like us.Yes we are mamma's boys,I'll ring my parents every other day(still live in Peterborough)and I go back to Italy as much as I can,my brother is around them for lunch or dinner every single day,but what's wrong with that?Ciao Raff, I think the Times need a new reporter from Italy.
raffaello, peterborough,
A very good article. This is the real life in Italy. Every day I hope to be Berlusconi while I'm drinking 14th espresso. I cook for my girl and I play serenate for her, but after have asked the permission to my Mamma.
I loved Angela replaced: "It would be nice if you could write a long articles on English men who are not capable to approach a girl unless they are drunk or they are about to."
Ehy Angela, do you have any planning for tonight?? I can cook in a wonderful way!!!!!!!
Luxus2001, Genova, Italy
WoW! So the Italian Gigolo is finished? Women don't like them? So, tell me why I am the one picking up ladies at night instead of all the drunken English boys?
Stereotypes don't always work, and the Times should be more careful before publishing such statements. Could it be plain envy?
carlo, London,
You english focus the attention on italians because you're not able to face your shorcomings...I mean...i prefer taking care of my old mother that has done everything for me instead of throw her away in an hospice without any respect or gratitude like you do or i prefer dress a vest in winter instead of drink beer all time for getting warm...i can go on but i i'm not jealous like you and so i when think about the english i have in my mind all their big merits!
Ciao!
Roberto, Roma, Italy
This is the 10° article against the Italians of the month. As usual is full of stereotypes, and malice. All English man is an alcoholic and a drunk ?
Just see your premier league to see what the concept of family are you British men . What's wrong with wanting a family and be loved by his mother. Better your children in British football Violent and drunk ? The Italians will also be mammoni but love their family and are proud of their children.
But you know only judge other nationalities? But the British are the best? You have a divorce rate that is the highest in europe.
And the babygang in london?
Marco, Milan, Italy
"Our women have become independent-minded, they all go out to work, they don’t cook so much any more, we have to look after ourselves. We are second-class citizens.â€
Did someone really say this in the 21st century or is your correspondent making this up? I can't honestly believe that a man would say something this reminiscent of the Stone Age. Is it news that women go out to work and 'don't cook so much any more'? Is this even an issue in 2008? Come on, this article has to be a work of fiction.
MB, Edinburgh,
Stefano,
I am an Italian woman who married an American and sorry to contradict you but this article is the perfect picture of you guys. You are hopeless and the way you ended your post ("ciao by the champions of the world??? who is the champion? You? What are you a champion of? Mama's heart?) proves it!!!!
You should grow up and do the dishes after dinner, it won't hurt your soft delicate hands, don't worry!
D, Maryland, USA
the article was really funny but I agree with Bisjak,..look at the map, Italy is a very looong country,...you generalise too much ,...here in north Ita we had gaul, celtic, goth, lombard roots and the "sense" of family is weaker,...while., for example, in South they had arab and a strong spanish dominion and so there they have a stronger and larger sense of family and "mamma" , I have several southern italian friends and I can say this clearly, they make those splendid huge dinners with a lot of relatives,they have this great sense of large parental community that we don't have ....you in UK have a monarchy that united England from many centuries, while Italy was born only in 1861!!! never forget this or you can't understand well ,..anyways very funny too the test:, I like the writings of Owen)
Miche, Mantua, Italy
Here I am again on a british newspaper internet site, reading the 100th article about italian men in crisis that lost their appeal and are nothing more than mama-boys who would be lost without the continous presence of their mother cooking their meal and telling them what to do or not to do..
On the right side of the web page lies a photo of David Beckam in his underpants with his legs apart.
It's somewhat ironic but yet thousands and thousands of words are spent by british journalists to describe the decadence of the italian male. Year after year the old same story. This time, as proof of the fact, the story of Fabio Capello's mother who at age of 85 still refer to his beloved son as "my boy" and is very about him leaving Italy. A man who is one of the most successful football manager alive, a strong, confident and professional man whose guilt is to be visiting her mother every summer. So why all the fuzz?
Yet Here I am and always the same old question..Why should I be bothered?
Marco, Bologna, Italy
The "deep" analysis presented here is the reason why I prefer the NYT.
Luckily, not all your compatriots believe in such stereotypes and in the simplistic summary of a whole Nation you made, Mr. Owen!
Greetings from a "mamma's boy",
Stefano, Milan, Italy
It's high time for British to get out of their love for national clichés.
You are left alone in the whole world in thinking about Italians, French, Spanish or Germans as animals of completely different races.
Try to get out of your island and to understand something of the wider world instead. By the way, you know that English is to my knowledge the only language with a word like "abroad". Kind of explaining isn't it? Old Britannia vs the Whole Wild World!
Alessandro, Vienna, Austria
It's not right..you can't say these things if you don't know anything about our country..Instead I think that we are better than English man.. in fact you haven't our style..on our newspaper you won't ever find articles against other countries..and however it's not true that all Italian guys leave home too late..it is different from family to family..and remember that the only reason for which some of us don't leave home is a financial reason..in fact in Italy we don't earn so much money as you, so for a young guy could be difficult leaving home and buying a new house..and then, if you think that we are so bad, why have you chosen an Italian manager for your poor football squad??..YOU'RE SIMPLY JEALOUS!! Ciao ciao by the country champion of world!!
Stefano, Monza, Italy
I always though Italian men stayed at home until they were 30 because they spend all their money on sunglasses, scooters and manbags and couldn't afford to do anything else...
Garry W, London,
...On the other hand, when i told my friends back in Italy that i iron my own shirts, do my own groceries and cook every night after work, they tought i was crazy to move abroad.
So this article is trash, but has a little bit of truth in it.
The Italians that live abroad instead, enjoy greatly thier reputation, for me at least it worked well :)
davide, London, UK
It would be nice if you could write a long articles on English men who are not capable to approach a girl unless they are drunk or they are about to. Wait and see how Capello will turn your superstars footballers into men.... It would be nice to read another article then!!
Ciao ciao
angela
angela, london, uk
Yes, but we are not drunk at 17:00. Nice the picture of Beckham ..... Giorgio Armani ?
Carlo, Milan, Italy
Done the test - abosolutely luducrus!
I'm italian and my (English) wife often defines me the 'anti-mamma's boy', I very much doubt she would have married me otherwise!
However, according to the test I am a Mamma's boy, apparently because I like expresso after lunch and can ski well - come on please...
Frank, Reading, UK
Hi, I'm a 24 italian guy. The article says that we're mamma boys and, to tell the truth, this is partially correct. But, the fact is that in Italy is very hard to find a good job, 'couse the politicians did an horrible work in the past years (thank you Mr. Berlusconi!). For us it's hard to find a house and be indipendent. I'have a university degree, a girlfriend. I want to go living with her but simply I can't. I suppose that the younger generations don't seem like this stereotype.
Ciao a tutti e buona giornata!
Silvio, Milan, Italy
'a little bit excitable'? That would be passion and a strong sense of values. Yup, that's surely Italian-and so not British.
Ulla, Florence, Italy
well that's a bit harsh on us isn't it? I mean I know there's a fair few mamma's boys in Italy, but we're not all like that, plus the whole latin lover thing isn't just a legend...sure a lot of Italian women aren't 100% happy, but remember they have high expectations! And around the world, we are still perceived by quite a lot of women as being romantic, passionate, good at talking to them, and with a generally good taste. Believe me! Mind you, it might just be because the comparison is often drawn with characters of the booze-filled, loud, unmannered and overweight english men's mould, so you might say it's an easy shot, yet we're ok with it! Italian still means quality and what does English mean? Booze and being disliked by half of the world's population?
Cart, Dublin , Ireland
Oh c'mon! Stop with all this prejudices about Italy! It's a very old view of it!
Have you ever been here for more than a week? How can you talk about relationships between mothers and sons????
Things are very different from place to place, and from family to family ... it's not just about "enjoying Mamma’s home comforts" ! Most of the times are money problems that force people to live at home until the age of 30!
What's wrong with a mother who loves her son and is worried about him? Love stops when people grow?
What allow you to judge us?
Nikki is right: Jealousy is a terrible thing!!!
Mariangela, Torino, Italy
Jealousy is a terrible thing...It is very sad that a man who is loved by his mother for his whole life has to be called a "Mamma's Boy" and have it implied that he is a total sissy. I am Welsh, my husband Roman and his Mum still calls him "bello di Mamma" and smothers him with love whenever she sees him. This loving family environment has nurtured a self assured, considerate human being who has the utmost respect for women. Perhaps a mother who rarely expresses her love and regularly packs her kids off to McDonalds, rather than spend 30 minutes in the kitchen, would have produced one of the fine young men we see stumbling out of Britains pubs today.
Nikki Ciocca, Limassol, Cyprus
give me the old style italiano any day !
yvonne, Ely, Cambs
As the article states, Capello originates from the province of Gorizia in the extreme NE of Italy. Part of Austria-Hungary until 1919, only a small minority of people speak Italian at home or with friends, preferring the local language, Friulan, or, in Capello's case, the variation of the Venetian dialect, Bisiacco. So, all-in-all, a less Italian Italian would be hard to find.
Coincidentally, another great but atypical, 'Italian' player (goalkeeper) and coach, was born just 4 years before and only 10km from Capello's village in the same province... the Friulano, Dino Zoff.
Zoff coached Juventus, Lazio (where he signed a certain Paul Gascoigne, probably putting him off British football for life), Fiorentina and the Italian national side. In November 2003 he was elected Italy's Golden Player - the best Italian player of the last 50 years, with 112 caps, selected by the Italian Football Federation.
Two very great, very un-Italian Italians.
Billy Bisjak, Trieste, Italia