When I read Laura
Nolan’s article about men in this paper I thought: how dare she! I
felt stung and insulted. Nolan, a woman in her thirties, was writing about
what she perceived as a man shortage. She said that women in their thirties
were having trouble finding men, because thirtysomething men are so
noncommittal.
She didn’t just call them noncommittal. Men in their thirties, she wrote, are
selfish, mixed-up navel-gazers. They are not real men – they are “man-boys”.
Males, she told us, “are like eggs. They must hatch or go bad”. Oh dear, I
thought. This is dreadful stuff. How can you blame men for doing what they
are genetically programmed to do? I would never go around blaming women for
following their specific biological imperatives.
Men are different from women. That’s how we’ve evolved. We think differently.
We have different drives. This is the result of tens of thousands of years
of sexual selection. And this, in turn, benefits the species as a whole.
It’s not there to make life better for individuals, whether they are men or
women.
For a while, I continued in this vein. Nolan had pointed out that there
appears to be a conflict of interest between single men and women in their
thirties. Men, she says, just want to have fun. Women want to settle down.
Men want no-strings sex. Women, listening to their ticking body clocks, want
much more than sex.
This is true, I thought. I can’t argue with it. But has Nolan not considered
that the relationship between men and women is unbalanced at every stage of
life. Does she not realise that the balance of power is pretty much always
skewed? Conflict between men and women is not a strange thing that rears its
head when you turn 30. It’s the norm. And sometimes the conflict favours
women.
Just ask any man to remember what it was like being a teenager. Let’s imagine
a 17-year-old guy. Let’s say he’s reasonably attractive. And let’s say he
has a crush on an attractive girl in his class. Most men I know can remember
being in this position. And what happened? The girl didn’t even notice him.
That’s because she had a huge range of guys to choose from, all vying for
her attention. Not only the coolest 17-year-olds but some of the coolest 18,
19, and 20-year-olds, too. And guys in their early twenties, with cars and
motorbikes, and money to buy tickets for concerts and festivals.
This situation persists for years. Until they’re in their mid-twenties, at the
very least, women have a far larger pool of mates to choose from than men.
Who dates the attractive 23-year-old woman as she settles into her first
job? The 35-year-old who runs the company, that’s who. Not the 23-year-old
guy who met her at the interview and blushes every time she passes him in
the corridor. Of course not – she probably doesn’t even know the poor guy’s
name. He’s just the office boy.
Isn’t there a tremendous irony here? Women in their thirties feel aggrieved
that men in their thirties won’t commit to them. But aren’t these
thirtysomething women the very same people who snagged the slightly older
men ten years before? Not all of them, of course. But I wonder: did Laura
Nolan ever go out with an older man when she was in her early twenties?
I was fuming. How can people blame men for acting like men? Nobody knocks
younger women for snagging older men. Because that’s part of the reason for
the man shortage. And there must be lots of teenage and twentysomething men
who think that there’s a woman shortage. But you never hear them complain,
do you?
I sat down and did a bit of cold, Darwinian reasoning. I thought of the primal
conflict between men and women, as it has played out across the centuries.
Men and women, I remembered, are both driven, by their genes, to pass on
their personal characteristics down the generations.
But there is a fundamental problem. Men can achieve this most efficiently by
spreading their seed far and wide. They are, at least partly, driven by
promiscuous urges. Women, in contrast, can become pregnant usually only once
a year. And pregnancy is a huge investment. So they must be picky and
selective. In ancestral times, women needed to be very careful about who
they had sex with.
In the words of Professor David Buss, of the University of Texas, possibly the
highest authority on human evolutionary biology we have: “Because women in
our evolutionary past risked enormous investment as a consequence of having
sex, evolution favoured women who were highly selective about their mates.”
So there we are, then. Young men grow up knowing one clear fact about women
– that they are highly selective when it comes to sex. This is not only
hard-wired into the male brain, but culturally reinforced at every turn.
Women are more cautious than men when it comes to sex, and for very good
reason. In evolutionary terms, they have something to lose, and men have
nothing to lose. In ancestral times, fertile women guarded their chastity.
They were picky. They could afford to be, because they had something men
wanted.
And there’s more. If you take all of human history, the vast majority of guys
have got nowhere at all with women? For most guys that have lived, ever,
their sexual experience has been pretty much zilch.
Until a few thousand years ago, only a tiny proportion of the male population
– the bosses and the bullies – sired virtually all the children. Most guys
went through the whole of their lives without getting a single shag.
And now something has happened to change things in a fundamental way. In some
parts of the Western world, the age at which humans mate has increased. In
urban areas, such as London and New York, many women are still single into
their thirties – in other words, they are more like Carrie from Sex
and the City than Jane Austen’s heroines, who were in their very early
twenties.
And this makes a huge difference. Here is a population of ordinary guys – the
guys who were nothing special, the dorks who were passed over in favour of
the cool, attractive guys when they were younger. And now, possibly for the
first time in history, they find themselves in an unreal bubble. Women are
no longer being cautious and picky – they are competing for their
attentions. This is a genuine turning point in the history of gender
relations. For the first time ever, geeks and bozos have pulling power. Can
you blame them, after thousands of years of competing for female attention,
for letting it go to their heads?
And then I thought: hang on a minute. I was one of those geeks. As I got older
and less physically attractive, I found it easier and easier to talk to
women. This was weird. Was it not supposed to happen the other way around? I
was overweight. I had a drink problem. But women, who had seemed elusive in
my teens and early twenties, were always there for me, even if I wasn’t
always there for them. For years, I did not commit. Even worse than that –
for years, I half-committed, in one relationship after another. I wasted
years of people’s time.
But was it all light-hearted fun? Of course, some of it was. But it’s not as
much fun as you’d think. It’s never good being in dysfunctional
relationships. After a while, you begin to be consumed by guilt.
Sometimes you go along for the ride. Sometimes you bail out. But you’re always
haunted. There is always trouble, always stress. You are never far away from
overturned tables and smashed crockery. I was threatened with a knife.
On another occasion, my entire wardrobe was drenched in tomato sauce. By the
end, sometimes I felt that I’d been having the same relentless argument for
more than a decade.
So I guess I don’t blame you for feeling bad, Laura. Men and women,
particularly single men and women as they approach middle age, have a
dysfunctional relationship. But it’s nobody’s fault. It’s a demographic
quirk. It’s that we’re living longer. It’s the economy. It’s our genes. It’s
all of these things. Just don’t blame men.
I love geeks and they age well. I like a great conversation. Engineers love me...I attract them online too as they are not afraid that I have a PhD and love sensuality. I have my own money and want a long time partner ...again.
Melissa, Istanbul,
I like the article. Let me give you my perspective as a once model (boring) and now young hot professor w/ Ph.D. in the sciences. I've always been pursued, and am still, by men of all ages and types. I've dated geeks (I love you all), jocks, and bad boys. You know what's a turn-off? dumb guys... lazy boys... and in particular... geek guys who feel the need to compete with me (umm... NOT sexy)... If some of you geeky guys out there would stop competing with the very women who find you hot (& believe me... we do), have some confidence (oh, so, sexy), you could have us.
Anna, Phoenix,
I agree with the story but lets not also forget that a lot of woman don't stand the test of age very well. They get baggy, smelly and grumpy, who needs that?
peter, amsterdam, netherlands
It was about time some article explained the male perspective.
When I was in my 20s, I was handsome (sigh! this didn't last), nice guy, nerd and very romantic. I would have get married happily. But no women wanted me as a boyfriend. They were banging the "exciting" bad boys. So instead of writing pathetic articles whining why the world was not the way I wanted (like a woman) I focused on my career.
I lost my virginity when I was 27 (yes!pathetic! but nobody wanted me). My first girlfriend "stole" my small business. My second (and last) girlfriend dumped me when she realized she couldn't have my money. She broke my heart.
Now I am 37, with a Ph. D, amazing job, wealth and good sex life. Why should I marry? To allow a woman to have half of my assets? Even more, to have the 30-some who rejected me and despised me 10 years ago? How is it my duty to accept them now? Ladies, stop whining. You had your time. Now it is ours. The world doesn't revolve around your wishes
Pablo, Madrid, Spain
I married my geek at 27, and I wouldn't have it any other way. In fact, even as an attractive younger girl, I still opted for geeks over jocks and bad boys. If I ever have a daughter, I will instruct her to do the same for there is an untapped stream of wonderful men out there if you're willing to look past stereotypes!
Christa, Boston, MA
Brilliant article. Well said
Tom, Leeds,
Laura's viewpoint struck a chord because I live her reality.
For those men who think women are only out to trap them and take their money, I'm lucky to own a beautiful home outright which I'd dearly love to share with someone special.
I went freelance at 30 in readiness of being a homemaker for the husband and family I wanted - I'd work from home and not fleece my beloved. Instead I have financial success that doesn't mean much without someone to share it with.
My standards aren't high, I've dated men within a 10 yr age range and had a 5yr relationship with a delivery driver. We split because he didn't want kids. Then I dated a man who pretended he wanted a future with me, but saw me as an add-on to his batchelor life.
I tried internet dating and lost count of guys who went to great lengths to woo me, then disappeared back online once they secured my affection. William, I don't blame men. I just feel sad and I feel that I've failed. Despite all that I live in hope...
Katie, Chichester,
I don't think Laura Nolan even mentions, let alone criticises, men in their thirties marrying younger women. What she identifies is their reluctance to commit to anyone at all.
Could you explain please how this is ''good for society rather than individuals''.
Your article doesn't really address any of the issues she raises, in fact, it seems to be more about you and yours, which ironically rather reinforces her argument.
''Don't blame men'' - you say.
Well, if marriage declines and consequently the population, don't blame women.
helen, london,
I am a married, female professional of Indian origin and have had many middle aged, singe, European man, confide in me over the years that they found American or British women "impossible" and could help them meet a nice Asian or Arab girl. I always found this a bit sleazy. I once did ask them, if when they were young they paid any attention to the nice, serious young girls who were focused on getting an education in their own schools and universities. And always ot the sheepish "when you are young, you go for the hot chicks right" comment.
Well if British men and women treated each other as human and not objects this would not be the situation now. How about friendship and trust and loyalty as aspirational values?
Surprised in Dubai, Dubai,
If the geeks in past history were unable to find a mate - then surely the 'geek gene' would have died out! I think there is someone for everyone. A geek might have other characteristics that attract a partner - who themselves may not have the obvious attractiveness that instantly attracts. Beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder!
jenna, swindon, uk
I can't decide whether this article deserves a Pulitzer or Nobel prize or both. The trouble is us geeks are boring. What woman wan'ts someone who is trusting, reliable and honest. How dull is that? How does that flatter their ego's when they've had a few Stellas.
cossens, Manchester, UK
"Until a few thousand years ago, only a tiny proportion of the male population – the bosses and the bullies – sired virtually all the children..."
Are you sure about this amateur evolutionary psychology? ... There are plenty of examples of animals mating for life because choosing a partner that would participate in raising young was more important than choosing a more genetically gifted partner who would leave. I though humans were one example.
Etienne, Cambridge, UK
Isn't this just simple maths... if, in each generation, there are a certain proportion of men and women who can commit then as time goes on these pair up and the pool of potential mates becomes more and more concentrated with those that can't or don't want to commit?
Then the biological clock forces the non-committal Women that want kids to seek commitment with more urgency than the non-committal men.
Etienne, cambridge, UK
What about us geeky females? I'd rather spend an evening battling Boswer than destroying my liver.
I'm doomed to spend my days with a fellow Indian who was raised to treat women like slaves. Where is my sweet white geek who appreciates Nintendo?
Midna, London,
It's payback pure and simple. Women do not understand that when they reject any given man, it's closes the door forever because he would regard a subsequent attempt to approach him as suspect. After years of this and seeing women go out and whelp bastard kids with criminals, dirt bags, and gangsters, those so called geeks want nothing to do with them and their kids. Add a bad marriage or two and a man will avoid women like the bubonic plague. Men look at the costs and benefits of everything, and in the case of marriage in a western country they rightly see it as a foolish decision. Why should I commit to a woman who can leave, take all of my hard earned assets and push me out of the kids lives? Also, only a fool would raise another man's kids. Sorry honey, there is not someone for everyone, at least in their own locale or even their own country.
Taras, Atlanta,
Beautiful women have it so easy in life. Let me explain.
To be attractive a man needs to have money, a god job, something to show the woman. That demands work, time and sweat. A woman just needs her youth, her beauty, a nice smile and men will show interest. If this woman is slightly intelligent she will demand marriage and NOT have sex before being married. Why? Because she knows that her greatest asset are her looks. These depend on her entirely on her youth. If she lets time pass and have fun with many men, her attractiveness will decrease very fast. Actually women who are no virgins at the time of marriage are not attractive. Women have it easy if they behave in a sensible way. Most women waste their youth and their looks, their health (STDs), have abortions when they are young. Then 15 years later they wake up, look around and realise that men do not want to marry them.
Mcheal Miller, London, UK
@Elizabeth, edinburgh, UK
What planet are you living on? Men depending on women? How any male gold diggers are there? And have you been introduced to divorce laws?
Howard, Manchester,
Men are like pigeons, if you start feeding them, they'll come back everyday and wait for you to feed them, all day long if they have to. In other words, men wait for things to happen, or thing to be given to them. And the older they get, the more pigeon-like they become. They just stop trying and love having an easy life of routine and no effort until you finally have to shoo them off so that they can go away and stop depending on other people and take more initiatives to find their own food.
Elizabeth, edinburgh, UK
A geek in his 20's could surely meet a girl who see's past the physical and see's the personality! And what about those girls who are not very attractive - they might have no other choice but to go for the geeks! Also, the geeks who are intelligent attract attention because of their brains rather than their brawns. If the geeks got no one in the past - how come their genes survived!! Surely the geek gene would have died!!
Theres someone for everyone....trouble is everybody thinks the grass is greener on the other side of the fence - the truth is the grass on the other side of the fence needs cutting too!
jenna, swindon,
I met my partner in life 9 years ago, completely by accident on the London underground, when we were both in our mid thirties. I was not looking for a wife, I was a confirmed bachelor. I was not even trying to talk to anyone: I was actually quite busy coming back from a stressful trip. Nor, I know now, was she thinking about finding herself a partner at that time.
How did this lady stand out from the crowd? She was kind enough to help me get my bags on the train. It should not surprise readers to know she was not, in those days, British.
Julian, London, UK
I am a single male aged 43. My last partner made me feel useless and inadequate. I shall stay single and probably never have a partner again. She went on to marry and a short time later divorce - plus big settlement. She brags about this to some of my female friends. Many men find this kind of thing scary!
peter bradley, new york, new york new york
Lynn Melbourne,
Used goods? Well I would not want a forty year old virgin, unless I had happened to fall really in love with them. It is normal for both men and women to enjoy sex, and your attitude that men only want virgins and do not want women who enjoy sex or take an active part in sex makes your partner seem like a sexual bully. What srt of a man would have sex with a woman when he knows that she does not enjoy it and considers it to be her contribution to the arriage-he provides financial security and she provides sex! SICK SICK SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sarah, uk,
I am a reasonably attractive 30 year old female. I was not one of the cool girls in high school who had a choice of teen boys to date. I didn't actually have a real date in high school. I briefly dated a few guys in college and had 2 serious relationships, one of which I am still in!
I never scoffed at, was rude to or ignored "geeky" guys at any point in my life, but I can tell you that I have experienced the non-committall attitude of men now.
I never dated a man 10 years older than me, I'm not high maintenance and I am educated and independent.
I do find that because I am not gorgeous and perfectly in shape (I do work out) that men simply aren't interested in me for the most part.
I am fortunate that I have a wonderful boyfriend who appreciates and loves me for who I am.
But for as many women who may have mistreated men in their past, there are quite a few of us who go unnoticed who are quite worth it.
Autumn, London,
A lot o men in their mid thirties won't commit because of the divorce laws. They work hard, the buy a house, and sort themselves out with a nice life. And if they marry they could bring a lot to the table. But if things go wrong, and they get divorced, they could end up with nothing, not even with thoe things that were his before marriage. So they often don't marry. Sorry girls, but you've fought so hard to take 50% of everything, even that which you didn't earn / buy, that the guys often don't want you. You are too much risk
RB, Aberdeen,
I'm 31, under average height, ok looking and above average intelligence and earning power. Recently trialling internet dating, guess what... no interest at all from the under-30 age group, serious stalking from the over 35 "I wear a neon sign above my head proclaiming that need babies NOW" demographic. And as for the over 45 "I realise I no longer look as I did - just pleeeeeeez be nice to me" demographic... I just felt kinda sorry for them, they were actually really sweet.
But where were they when I was a teenager, a twentysomething, a bloke who wanted someone to hang with and go out with?
Interesting how I can become less attractive but more desired as I get older!
Tony Sarma, Newcastle-upon-Tyne,
sounds good to me, a newly single 26 year old, attractive, kinda geeky guy (i was going to big myself up more, but stephen from barnes did enough for everyone). i will happily 'date' as many 30 year old women as i can find.
graeme, london,
These responses have rather cheered me up as one of the apparent throng of 'desperate' ladies approaching her mid-thirties. The most charming, witty and (in contrast to some of the other contributors) modest responses, seem to have been from the single chaps who are still searching.
We're not all girls who spent their twenties re-buffing the advances of geeks or notching up as many lovers as we could, perhaps some of us were getting on with our lives, jobs and friends and hoping to meet the right chap along the way.
For those still looking, good luck.
Cathy, London,
Women are poisoned by the old fashioned notions of a rich handsome prince who will sweep them onto his white horse. We shouldn't want this at all! My husband of 13 years is my best friend and my ally. We've weathered tough economic times, family deaths and uncertainties together. We've fought, but always with respect and courtesy. I wouldn't trade him for all the flower and jewel toting princes in the world. Why can't women treat their men as well as they treat their girl pals? If the Sex and the City girls had treated men as kindly as they treated each other, they would have been a lot happier.
Andrea, Dallas, USA/ Texas
Started out a geek, got a cool job, got happy, got older, got a life, got married to a beauty, still a geek though, but never been more hit on by women, getting older, getting happier, getting hit on by younger and younger women. It's a horrible paradox!
James, london, uk
I do think it's true that single older men look for younger women. I am a 44-year old single man (never married) and I generally date women 10 years younger and down (I won't go younger than 26 at this point). If a man can keep himself in shape, has a decent career, a house and can look after himself, there is no problem dating women of all ages. Plenty out there.
Dalton, Kanata, Canada
Its true that most women would prefer to find someone before they turn 30, but its wrong to assume that they'd be desperate to settle for just anyone, or someone who falls short of their expectations, be they looks, height, age. Since people now live longer, and thanks to in-vitro fertilization, women can afford to postpone marriage, Mr Perfect and all of the rest. Why settle when you can have all the fun and take your time choosing the right partner>?
Ellie, Manchester, UK
Realistically, a man given the choice bewteen a 20-something and any older woman will prefer the younger model. If women do not get their man while they are in their mid-twenties their prospects of doing so recede rapidly. Older men do not mind being single, older women do. If women don't want to be over thirty and single they must decide to marry before they have had every last ounce of pleasure out of being able to attract any man. In other words they have to "take the plunge" when the party is just starting. Sad, but true.
John Stobart, Oakham,
Muffintop gives a nisnight into why male promisuity is such a successful Darwinian strategy: women consistently coose partners that are loyal and successful at bringing home the bacon (was hunting, now cash). However, in order to ensure their offspring are strong and dominant, they habitually ensure that around their fertile period they have sex with promisuous men who can attract the female eye by their physical presence.
That is why upto 35% or more children are born to short to sauccessful men but are in fact, cuckoos.
Edwin, Bucharest,
Thank you Mimi, London!! That is just what I needed to hear. I'm a single 33 year old woman and I've had it to the back teeth with friends (in relationships) telling me I'm too picky and advising me to persist with men after I'm sure I have absolutely no special feelings for them. As far as I'm concerned that's not fair on them and I don't have time to waste on Mr Wrong. There are loads of great single guys out there, but it's not as simple as "single guy + single girl = perfect match". So I'm waiting for my Mr Absolutely Perfectly Right For Me to come along and (not that I need anyone else to confirm this to me) it's nice to hear someone saying that's the right thing to do!
M. Chat, London,
Leith addtionally forgot to extend the timeline - the"thirties" woman, having found what appears to be a suitable partner -promptly gets "bored" - and fleeces the bloke for his money, his emotional support, and anything/everything else she can get her hands on. And, wait for it - I'm no misogynist - just the "average looking geek" who tried bloody hard to be "nice", but got got booted in the painful nether regions for doing so.
Conclusions and advice for those men (like me) who are still out there being/attempting to be "nice":
1) Don't sell yourself cheaply.
2) Don't get married - unless you really do know that the female you want to spend the rest of your life with is totally genuine. And ask yourself what are your true prospects?
3) If you're still the "geeky" teenager/early twenties bloke - and not a moneyed Royal/Lord's son/TV celebrity/sports star or this week's latest male fashion icon - keep trying, or save yourself all the grief and stop at home.
Joseph White, Loughborough , UK
What women want: money, power, status.
What men want: youth, looks, fertility.
The women get to choose earlier, the men get to choose later.
"Left on the shelf" doesn't really apply to guys. Sorry girls - but you do have it good early on in life.
C Park, London, UK
Well observed modernity. But the beauty (and pain) of today's battle of the sexes is a patriarchal culture that dictates monogamy lived out in little boxes, while our instincts yearn for a tribal past. The statement that "only a tiny proportion of the male population ... sired ... all the children" is likely false for the 500k years of tribal hunter-gatherer human evolution before we settled into the dull pleasures of agrarianism about 5-10k years ago. Before the farm, group bonding probably required that any man was at least in with a chance of a shag, even if some were more equal than others. Insistence on monogamy--and its attendant oppression of women--probably only got going when it mattered who inherited the farm.
Dougie, Nantes, France
I believe it was the great philosopher Iggy Pop who first said, "Your Pretty Face is Going to Hell."
Greg, Albany, New York, USA
most men are too afraid to chat up the "pretty girls" for fear of rejection. Most girls (even the prettiest ones) are not that discriminatory - they like someone who is confident about themselves, is interesting and fun to be with. The looks are not so important once all those boxes have been ticked.
So I am told.
sonny, london,
In Australia this phenomena is called "The Flip" when women who had their choice of men in their 20s suddenly hit 30 and find their looks fading, and they have to compete with a new generation of 20 somethings women for the slightly geeky men in their 30s, who couldn't get a date in their 20s, but now have their choice of women. Naturally these men choose the younger (and more fertile) model.
Luke, Melbourne, Australia
Nerds are having the last laugh. After all the years of being laughed at, and generally being a bit rejected. He who laughs last laughs longest.
RB, Aberdeen,
Nice article, but can you please let me know where all these hordes of single, eligible women actually are? Despite ticking just about every box on the list, I have arrived in my mid-thrities with my front door most stubbornly intact.
I wonder if that Laura Nolan is still available.
Rob, London,
I'm impressed by Steven from London. The guy's a tiger.
Jack, London, England
The picture in this article appears to show a very lucky geek.
Neil, Gloucestershire, England
wait till you get to forty thing are even better.
Stephen Jones, Kualar Lumpur, Malaysia
Mimi, be careful. Oxford doesn't do PhDs, only D Phils. Check him out!
Dick Pyle, Barran, France
On my first night out in London, aged 20, having made the decision I wanted to meet and settle into a relationship, I met my partner. We're about to celebrate out 20th anniversary in March
James, Reading,
I just find women have so many issues these days it's really not worth the hassle. I disagree with the younger woman older man thing too. I've never had any problems from teens to thirties attracting women. The problem now is sat listening to women in their thirties constantly saying why are you not married? you're the stereotypical tall dark and handsome man with the added bonus of personality and plenty of money. The answer is simple, marriage just isn't my thing, get over it and stop looking for issues that are not there. There is so much in life you can do and it doesn't need to be done with a partner. This is true for women and men. Times have changed and the freedom of choice in whatever you do is king.
Mark, Manchester, UK
Fantastic piece!
Steve Warrick, Newcastle, UK, UK
Mark Klein - a kindly story.
I've been 'standing still' for about seven months, but it doesn't seem to be working so far; is there additional advice from the good doctor?
Thank you,
von Bliad
Von Bliad, London, UK
Had a a look at a dating website recently - one which refers to itself as the friendly one -and being a 40 year old bloke had a look at four female profiles, between the ages of 36 and 40. All four of them stated the age range for their prospective partner as being 18-35.
This is a true story.
Says it all really. Unrealisitc expectations for one thing, and a woman of 40 looking for an 18 year old obviously isn't seriously looking for a 'soul mate' no matter what her spiel may say. And if men they would have been referred to by the adjectives 'dirty old'...!
MD, Varna,
@Muffintop, Beds,
Is that all you care about? How much they earn? No wonder the richer guys are shunning women, they don't want gold diggers...
Howard, Manchester,
Hmm, see the logic....just doesn't seem to be working out for me. As an attractive & successful 30 something, I ought to be beating 'em off with the proverbial stick, but probably had my golden years on the pull in my twenties.
Martin, London, London
personal true story...
had a crush on this girl my age in my twenties for the longest time but she would only consider me as a good friend as she dated with all the guys who were hanging around her all the time.
fast forward 10-12 years later, 50-60 boyfriends in her bed thus far, she suddenly decides that i am the one she wants to settle down with. unfortunately, i now have a lovely girlfriend in her twenties and i definitely will not give her up for someone who has gone around the block.
Craig, London, UK
I'm 30 and I love it. I'm no longer consumed by the insecurities and low self-esteem of my 20's, even though I was having relationships with older men. Most of them were cheats and made me more insecure! I don't want babies, I'm not sure I have a biological clock! I certainly don't see the point of marriage but respect that it works for people I know, few though they may be. So I feel lucky that I don't feel that pressure to get hitched and reproduce. All the men I meet I treat as equals and potential friends. Some move on to more serious things, some don't. Why make your life hard by worrying about it? It doesn't make any difference. As Sean from Zurich says, let nature take its course! There's nothing more unattractive than a desperado - male or female!
Liz, West Mids,
I was in my early thirties when I finally found my Mr Absolutely Perfectly Right For Me. I was always relatively popular, and could pick and choose as I pleased, but no one was ever good enough. I am so glad I didn't settle for 'second best', but waited until I found 'the one' for me. He happens to be in his late 30s (albeit divorced), Oxford PhD educated, fun, intelligent, good looking -- a real catch. He's not a geek by the traditional sense though. I had all the fun a young woman could have, without later having to settle for less. I realise that perhaps we are in the minority, and very lucky in that we didn't have to settle for less. Never settle for less. It's really not worth it. Try out hundreds if you have to, until you finally find the one. My husband is happy I've had experience, and picked him over all the rest (for the record, it's not hundreds for me).
Mimi, London,
LOL. speaking as a guy who has had his cake and eaten it (lots of sowing my wild oats in my teens, married in my early twenties and now late thirties, still very happily married with 4 kids and the 6 figure income) I am loving this. Let me get this straight - the geeks out there have to wait nearly twenty years to be sexually attractive to women and, when they are, it's just the cast-offs and desperate left-overs that they get? Darwinism in action!! Love it.
Steven Barnes, London, UK
Where have all the men gone. You hear it a lot, and it reflects an attitude that (A) replaces individuality with some kind of "market" and (B) is part of the "You can have it all" myth. Well the answer is that this is not the attitude of someone who is worth settling down with. Anyone who finds themselves saying this might benefit from worth wondering whether they still have some growing-up to do as the "life is a bowl of cherries" approach is only going to be met like for like.
Pete, London,
Lyne from Melbourne! Get a hold of yourself! Used goods?! Strewth...
Hazel, London,
A tad ironic for a woman to say that men are like eggs, they hatch or go bad?
John Ledbury, Kings Lynn, England
Marrying a geek is a good idea. My geeky husband now earns a six figure salary. Geeky professions like IT can be very highly paid. We met when we were in our early 20's. He is very dependable and has never strayed (possibly a bit Asperger's). Having said that I know quite a few geeky men approaching their 40's who earn quite a lot but are still single. I am sure they would make good husbands for someone.
Muffintop, Beds,
Wendy Shalit's "A Return to Modesty" is an interesting read in this respect; the thoughts of a 20-something woman who recognises precisely this problem!
Hannah, London, UK
Fundamentalists everywhere will feel exonerated after reading this thesis on male and female values
R. Ince, Istanbul, Turkey
I got married and had my only child at 44 to a wonderful 42(going on 18!)year old woman.It helps that we are both young at heart and do not take life TOO seriously-this will help our young son in years to come.My wife has been married twice before and I have had relationships with girls from both ends of the evolutionary scale.We both agree that we were not ready in our 20s and 30s.
My advice is to keep going and do not get stressed out about all this.Let nature take its course.
Sean, Zurich, Switzerland
As the mother of a 17 year old girl, I keep giving her advice which seems inappropriate for today - until I read your article. I tell her "Grab that Dork and keep hold of him. If you look after him, he'll turn into a fine man." I really hope she doesn't fritter her 20's away on "fun", and find herself in her thirties - single and rather too experienced with men. Laura shouldn't have blamed men because she passed up on the good ones when she was young. Most men would regard her as used up goods.
Lyne, melbourne, australia
An enjoyable article, and it doesn't insult women, in contrast to the misanthropist article to which it responds. It makes perfect sense, and makes me so glad I am gay.
jimmy, London, UK
hmm its like some biologically deterministic mysogynist wish fulfilment fantasy- like 'Knocked Up'. I'm not convinced women are that desperate- they will probably have clandestine/adulterous relationships and 'accidental' pregnancies with attractive already attached or free 'relationship adverse' men, over marrying or getting with men who revolted them in their twenties, and more than likely, still revolt them now.
Ray, Wellington,
"Until a few thousand years ago, only a tiny proportion of the male population – the bosses and the bullies – sired virtually all the children. Most guys went through the whole of their lives without getting a single shag."
Not necessarily disputing this, but could you please back this up with sources/evidence? Many thanks. A writer cannot expect his/her reader to take everything written as given!
Bernie, Dublin, Ireland
Because women are more likely to be highly selective about whom they have sex with I created this Aesop like fable I called "The Lions and the Antelopes" to explain how sex goes for my sons. The lions don't realize they are antelopes in disguise whereas the antelopes know they are really lions. Told the boys best not to hunt the ladies but rather just stand still so you're easier to find. Dubious at first several months later the boys reported with a big smiles I was absolutely right!
MARK KLEIN, M.D., OAKLAND, CA
wow, it's honestly nice to read an article about gender politics where men are not being blamed! I mean that sincerely!
Chris, New York City,
Amen Brother. 28 years old and counting the days!!
Simon, London,