Jonathan Leake
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Environment ministers from more than 180 countries were arriving in Bali this weekend for a second week of climate change talks as a stand-off emerged between the main negotiating blocs.
The UN-sponsored talks are a vital first stage in drawing up a new agreement to cut greenhouse gas emissions after the Kyoto protocol expires in 2012.
But Europe and America are at loggerheads over carbon trading, China and India disagree with both Europe and America over making any cuts in their soaring carbon emissions and the US is flatly refusing to contemplate initiatives that could help Russia become a superpower once again.
At the heart of the discussions is the question of how to replace or upgrade the Kyoto treaty, which was drawn up in 1992, adopted in 1997, came into force in 2005 and expires in 2012. Since it was agreed, evidence of climate change has mounted and its provisions are now seen as far too weak.
Under Kyoto, industrialised nations were meant to cut emissions by an average of 5.2%. However, in the 15 years since it was signed, global greenhouse gas emissions have soared from the equivalent of 40 billion tons a year to about 50 billion tons.
The economies of China and India have boomed in ways never predicted in 1992 and the world population has grown by more than a billion. Scientific studies show that carbon emissions need to be cut by up to 80% by 2050 if the worst of climate change is to be avoided.
The treaty places most of the onus for cutting emissions on industrialised nations such as Britain and America. By contrast, developing nations, whose emissions are surging, are under no pressure to cut back. Bringing India and China into a new emissions regime is a major part of what the EU and America wants to achieve in Bali.
The developing countries, however, have made it clear that they will consider action only if it is largely funded by the industrialised nations that have caused most climate change and benefited from burning billions of tons of fossil fuels. Consequently, much of the discussion in Bali has been about paying for carbon reduction strategies in developing countries. There has been some progress.
There is huge disagreement, though, over carbon trading, whereby countries are given quotas for carbon emissions. If they emit too much they have to buy other countries’ surplus. If they emit less than their quota they can make money by selling what is left.
Britain and the EU believe carbon trading could allow Europe to cut emissions by up to 30%. America has, however, rejected the idea, pointing out that it would have to pay billions of dollars a year to developing nations just to buy enough carbon quota to keep its factories, homes and roads running.
One quirk of the Kyoto treaty is that Russia has billions of dollars worth of surplus carbon quota and US policymakers refuse to support a system that could generate billions of dollars of unearned income for Russia and so help accelerate its return to superpower status.
A spokeswoman for the UK delegation accepted that progress had been slow. She said: “The talks are designed to pave the way for an agreement to be signed in 2009. We still have a week of talks left and they should go faster when ministers are involved so there is still hope.”

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When you pour money into these "developing" nations, they will just use the cash to buy bigger weapons.
Period.
Brock, Vancouver,
Ricardo
High carbon emissions and development are not the same thing. You do not need to emit massive amounts of carbon as you develop. The majority of India's carbon emissions are due to massive levels of inefficiency in industry , coal power generation and general energy inefficiency at the top end of the economy. If India reduced its carbon emissions by improving energy efficiency, it would have more funds for development - remember over 50% of India's power generation is lost due to old, inefficient power plants and electricity subsidies that favour the rich and penalise the poor - cut this out, and India's emissions drop by 40% (for those asking what happens to the other 10%, this is bringing overall losses down to what you could expect with an efficient, cost effective modern power system).
It is NOT about keeping the third world poor - it is about helping them develop without having to go through the hell of an industrial revolution.
Peter, London,
Unlike a carbon tax, carbon trading will provide financial incentive for companies to develop technologies that can reduce emissions. For example, I now believe CCS (Carbon Capture and Storage) is a way to dramatically reduce emissions. This could be done under CDM's in China. It is estimated that the cost for CCS could be around $50 per tonne CO2. If this was introduced in Australia, the cost of electricity would probably double to around 8 pence per Kwhr but this would still be cheaper than some European countries. If CDM credits could be fungible between Australia and China, the problem could be attacked with vigor
John, Sydney,
Even if we perform every one of the suggestions to reduce carbon emissions, we would only gain 1/4 or a 1/2 of a degree change.
Buying other countries surplus carbon credits is just plain stupid. With the emerging countries building 100's of new power plants, why can't they make the extra effort to make them cleaner burning? We also need many new nucleur power plants here in the US. We have the technology and it is proven. If we can buy carbon credits, maybe we could buy garbage dumps in the emerging countries for the waste!
Anything we as a world community do will only delay the gloom and doom for 10 or 20 years. We need to find alternatives to fossil fuels. We also need to find a way to cool the earth down a little bit. That is where the money will be in the future.
Barry, Brooklyn, USA / NJ
Although i do believe climate change is caused by human factors, I think it is immoral to ask third world countries to cut their emissions. Countries like India which although now progressing fast , still have vast pockets of poverty. In some areas of India , death due to starvation is still a fact of life. Are we now telling them that they should cut back on development for their people as lives in the rich world are at stake! Wake up- on this planet everyone has an equal right to life. The rich industrialised countries have caused global warming and one of the by products of this has been the raising of the standard of living for people living in these industrialised countries. Now, we want a cap on new emissions for them even though they have not achieved the same levels of living (or polluting). Factors like these are what caused revolutions in countries around the world. The only answer is to develop new technologies and simultaneously enforce reductions in emission on the west.
ricardo de souza, birmingham, uk
The idea of carbon trading is just plain stupid. Why would anyone want to compel countries who have raised the standard of living all around the world to now pay 3rd world countries who would then not worry about carbon emissions at all. Wake up!
Sam Spade, Prince Place, Canada