No one in their right mind would believe the that the self-serving and bloated infrastructure set up by this morally and functionally corrupt government could be trusted to implement a system that is either voluntary or not being used to spy on individuals. Remember - this is the same government that allows the DVLA, a government organisation that is supposedly looking after your confidential details, to SELL those same details to puiblic companies for profit. Who needs terrorists? This Labour government has done more in the past 10 years to destroy the fabric of British life than any government in history.

Tom, London, UK

" The Government was taken by surprise by the strength of feeling against road pricing" well, once again, the powers that be in this country show how out of touch they are with the reality of everyday life for the majority of UK citizens. The only way to gain acceptance of the road pricing proposals is the provision of reliable, efficientnt and cheap public transport serving the majority of this country's citizens (and not only the most profitable routes), and that looks like a pipe dream unless someone is propared to make the huge investment necessary.

LizA, Altrincham,

It worries me that Germany owns Toll Collect, the company which is responsible for our road pricing system, the German government owns 45% of it. The UK will get very little reward for pricing the British public out of existence. We are paying through the nose for the distruction of our country.Rewards for drivers are a red herring.

ktc, plymouth, England

If they want to bribe people to support roadpricing how about a pass giving 50% off all Public Transport?

Matthew Honnor, Hong Kong, China

This governement is only focused on the good hearted, and honest tax payers. They happily punish the working families & individual with fines & jail sentences.The REAL crimes of not conforming with society whether this is not paying any road tax, deciding to live in benefits and work cash in hand or decide that crime pays are being let off. I hope we somepoint get a hard hitting government who make Jail time hard....."some island in remote scotland"..........and make the NON-Conforming among this great country join in........ Lets make the government challenge the real crooks and not go after US, the easy taxpaying public. When will our future leaders grow a pair and decide that a soft approach is rubbish and we NEED strong LEADERSHIP and the Country will benefit.

Kevin, Devon, Devon

I know why we have the most congested roads in Europe
because we have the best radio all those people on the m25 everyday are just joyriding listening to the radio not
even thinking abut contributing to the economy,and if
anybody is interested modern cars have less , yes7 times less emissions than 20 years ago which means we can have
lots more cars and still less pollution and at any on time on the roads 25000000 cars are parked up.the only real
industry is the car industry it is why the government target
the driver its easy money CARS RULE OKAY .

george william taylor, hull, uk

Why, oh why does no-one else see tax on fuel as the solution here?
The more miles you travel the more you pay. The less efficient the vehicle, the more you pay. The infrastructure is already in place.
This keeps everyone happy, except for the public servants who wont be required to run the new GPS based system.

K, Way down south, Cornwall

How much longer are we, the citizens of this country, going to let our so-called government treat us like this? It seems to me that life in the Soviet Union would be preferable - at least there they told you they were spying on you. Here they expect us to be the instruments of our own downfall. We already have 4m CCTV camera's tracking us everywhere we go, speed camera's that photograph us whether we want it or not and numerous satellite's already watching us. What happened to the freedom promised by victory in the last World War - where has it gone?

All sensible drivers should give this stupid scheme the heave-ho and tell the Government where they can stick it. We are free people - no-one has the right to track our movements, so why are we letting them?

Take all the camera's down and stop this scheme at once. You can guarantee that once it gets implemented, all the existing taxes will come back too - mark my words. No Chancellor ever cuts taxes - they're all too greedy!

Neil , Derby, England

"Let me explain before the fare was approx £0.60 pence for a single bus fare Now it is £1.00 with Oyster card (a 40% increase)" -Shahzad, London, UK

You'll be glad to know that thats a 66.66% increase, not just 40%.

Pete, Cov,

What on earth are we coming to - Road pricing, yet another way of taxing us. I agree with others and we should do everything to resist this ludicrous idea. Professor Begg keeps coming up with scatterbrained ideas and this Government keeps listening to him.I travel into Edinburgh everyday and the strategy is geared to slowing down and attempting to eliminate the motorist at every turn, you would never believe the amount of roadworks that keep appearing and bus lanes that are mostly empty, closing off lanes at peak times, traffic lights appearing everywhere often at junctions where there was never a problem. Surely we must have local councils and even Government who beleive it or not are actually supposed to represent the motorist as well that can work out systems that make traffic flow quicker and not always trying to slow it down so that they can keep blaming congestion for their stupid ideas of which road pricing is yet another one

dennis rowe, tranent, east lothian

"........ the black box will be used to spy on drivers’ movements and to raise the overall amount paid in motoring taxes. Ministers have promised repeatedly that neither of these things will happen but the size of the petition suggests that many drivers do not believe them. "

I suppose the reality of the situation is that when millions of people are made victims of extortion with menaces over such a long period as ten years, by the same gang of highwaymen, they quite rationally assume that a leopard cannot change its spots.

D Tindale, Gateshead, UK

I have lived near Cambridge (one of the proposed trail sites) my whole life, I even worked there once. Their theory of these charges encouraging people to use public transport is wrong. If there was public transport available to me I would probably consider using it, but there is none of any use to me. Me and my partner are both forced to drive as there is no other way. So where does all the money they get from motorists go? Not into solving the problem! Clearly not into public transport or there would be a bus! Also politicians clearly don't understand that the public don't trust them not to go on to abuse the system and track us, they will probably just change the law when it suits them, I know I don't trust them! Why should I.

Lydia, Newmarket,

There is only ONE reason for road pricing and that is to increase taxes and anyone who thinks that it isn't is barmy and will be letting themselves and everyone else around them down by encouraging the idea that road pricing is a good thing. These sell outs will not be popular and they should be told before they are recruited, exactly how unpopular they will be.

judy, Liverpool, england

1.8 Million say NO only 5000 say yes to road pricing is there anyone within the Palace of Westminster who listens to the people anymore .
For the vast majority of people cars are the only viable means of transport to work to earn a living . For that majority do not have the luxury of flexi- time or work from home and they do not get subsidised travel either The majority of employers will not account for congestion they will expect employees to arrive for work on time and will not make good the increased road cost in their employees wages..
Labour Liberal and Conservative are so out of touch with the common people they do not have a clue and If they are so sure the majority back them then take the issue to a referendum I challenge them to do so.

l Balding, Coventry,

UKIP appears to be the only party which is clear on the issue - i.e., NO!

Arlene, Woodley, Berkshire

This government is in no way interested in reducing pollution. It sees motorists as the easiest target from which to raise more taxes whilst pretending to be concerned with the environment. When will people wake up to this pojnt? There are enough motorists in this country to make their voic heard if they act together and take a common sense approach. The on line petition against road pricing was a step in the right direction.

Richard, Manchester,

This governement is only focused on the good hearted, and honest tax payers. They happily punish the working families & individual with fines & jail sentences.The REAL crimes of not conforming with society whether this is not paying any road tax, deciding to live in benefits and work cash in hand or decide that crime pays are being let off. I hope we somepoint get a hard hitting government who make Jail time hard....."some island in remote scotland"..........and make the NON-Conforming among this great country join in........ Lets make the government challenge the real crooks and not go after US, the easy taxpaying public. When will our future leaders grow a pair and decide that a soft approach is rubbish and we NEED strong LEADERSHIP and the Country will benefit.

Kevin, Devon, Devon

Like everything else in this island of ours, set in a silver sea, It's "ROB, ROB, ROB (RIP OFF BRITAIN!).

Does anyone know when this government is due to start to tax us on fresh air yet?

Jackie, Sunderland, UK

So, ministers say that the black boxes will not be used to spy on drivers'movements.
Who, in their right mind, believes that?
If MI5 requests the movements data on a car, will the road-pricing legislation be strong enough to allow that request to be resisted?
If not, that's the thin end of the wedge, and police requests will follow, then tax officials, and so on.
Ministers are naive to expect the public to swallow their "promises".
And any promise made is a politician's promise - only valid until sundown.
The great escape will be the government's total inability to manage large-scale IT projects.
And the public will be able to grind any system to a complete standstill by refusing to pay each bill until they have received an itemised invoice. That will be good for conservation, as well !!

John Fothergill, aylesbury, UK

Unfortunately we have reached a predicament where the public no-longer trust the government who leads it. Road pricing substantiates the suspicion of a government focused on penalisation and will inevitably result in increased cost for the motorists. While no noticeable effort has been made by our government to reduce the cost and inconvenience bared by the users of our public transport system. Could this road pricing scheme be another prime target for a stealth tax or two?

Justin Green, Newcastle, UK

Time for people to speak up. Make this an issue at your local elections in May. Only vote for a candidate that does not agree with Local trial schemes.

Soon you will have local "trial" schemes in every town. Then it's simply a case of joining the dots for a national scheme.

Don't vote for the taxers

Si, Reading,

Overcomplicated Government IT that will probably fail to deliver as per most other schemes.

Put an amount for VED and insurance on fuel duty, no complications, no spying on the motorist less chance of avoidance by the nerr do wells or the foreigners and direct reward for frugal cars and those who drive only small amounts

Richard, birmingham,

..once you let them in the door it's a short hop to the creation of value add-ons and limitless intrusion. Incidentally Oregon has a single unified charge (tax) for vehicle registration fees so your Hummer costs the same as your Mini etc etc..maybe they could adjust that concept in the name of equity.

From today's Seattle Times:
"Traffic citations across Washington state soon will be paperless.

The State Patrol and at least one Western Washington police department have begun scanning bar codes on driver's licenses and vehicle registrations to get information needed to create traffic citations, according to the Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs (WASPC). The scanned information is automatically transferred to the courts. Alleged offenders get copies of citations but no longer are required to sign them.

"It's sort of like taking a page out of the UPS [United Parcel Service] guy," said Don Pierce, executive director of WASPC."

Toni, Santa Barbara, Ca

Why do Blair, Brown et al treat us, the electors like 'mugs'?

Simple - because come what may, do as they might, we (not speaking personally) keep re-electing them. The only thing that seems to affect the electorate is boredom. How often is "..well they can't be worse than the current lot ... " or "...it's time we gave somebody else a chance..."given as the reason for switching support?

Peter Preston, Collingham, UK

At least the Americans are up front about it. They need to find ways of increasing the revenue from petrol tax because the advances in fuel efficiency technology has meant less petrol purchased by drivers. People did not want to pay more fuel tax so this is an alternative. At least they do take account of the voter wishes unlike our lot.The tax on petrol over there is 1.2 cents per gallon !And of course the american device only records mileage and is not part of a satelite network so that it is not a tracking device. This governments' instinct is to lie and spin and dress it up as something else. It seems that everything this government does translates into a tax or penalty charge of some kind.

Josh Martin, Oxford , Uk

I drive 30,000 a year to visit clients all over the uk. I offer business advice and clients see me because i make myself available to them and absorb the travel costs.I mostly travel at peak times - becuase i need to meet clients at the start of the day. What will happen if i have to charge even 50p a mile? how can i pass on a £200 charge just to visit a client? This scheme would put me and many others straight out of business or see a general sudden sharp and inflationary increase in the cost of many items and services delivered by road.

My widfe on the other hand travels 26 miles a day to wok, even at 25p a mile her costs will rocket.

My father loves to vist my brother in Andover (from the wirral). Its about 600m round trip. As a retired gent how could he afford even 25p a mile to do so?

Does the government realise what this scheme will mean?

David J, Birkenhead, Merseyside

Good to see that racism is alive and well in Britain.

Andy M, liverpool,

Problem is that by the time you're sitting in traffic watching the meter tick up it's too late. The box would need to be able to prdict how much it's going to cost _before_ you travel - preferrably early enough for you to rearrange meetings, book train tickets etc. otherwise it's a huge waste of time. As a a business traveller I'd also want to be able to get itemized bills so I can reclaim the cost of business trips - I've seen no mention of this.
Anyway worries over "big brother" (damn right I don't trust the government) and speeding etc mean I'm highly unlikely to volunteer.

Rick, Leatherhead, UK

Time for people to speak up. Make this an issue at your local elections in May. Only vote for a candidate that does not agree with Local trial schemes.

Soon you will have local "trial" schemes in every town. Then it's simply a case of joining the dots for a national scheme.

Don't vote for the taxers

Si, Reading,

If they are allowed to run a pilot scheme, like it or lump it, we're booked for the whole hog.

The extra cost is bad enough, but I really jib at the surveillance . They say they won't snoop: they said lots of things which they knew at the time to be false. They promise. So what? When did this crowd keep promises?

Michael Bruce, Selby, Yorkshire

How about getting foreign cars to start adhering to our road laws. The majority of cars with Polish number plates most certainly won't even pass an MOT. This is political correctness gone mad.

Veronica Jones, Hatfield, UK

No doubt the motorist will have to pay for the black box.

GPS tracking will also be able to calculate vehicle speeds, especially, for example, on long motorway runs where many drivers travel at an "unofficially acknowleged" 90mph.
Would such evidence be uded in prosecutions.

Mike, Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK

This government is looking for ways to fleece us out of the few hard-earned pennies we have left. Living on a farm I drive a small 4x4 (Suzuki Jimny 1.3l). The road tax for something that small has gone up and fuel prices have gone up too. I drive exactly 6 miles to get to the nearest station to take the train to get into London. Rail fares have gone up. From there I walk to work because bus fares have also gone up. This government keeps taxing us, but what about foreign cars on our roads, without MOT, road tax and insurance? Typical of this government, rather track and punish honest citizens than offend foreigners. Enough is enough.This political correctness is madness!

Veronica Jones, Hatfield, UK

Do they really think we are that stupid? Whatever the trial does they will try to make it look cheaper. Once enough people are forced into it, prices will go up! Since the government can't finance the country with the present high amount of tax, they are looking to make more out of us not less.
As for using public transport, anyone living in a not so major town or city, or in rural areas have little to no choice but to use a car. Most people are aware of the cost of motoring and have cut down travel where possible but there is a limit. For many it is impossible to get to work without a car.

sandra, Alicante, spain

And just how long will it take before the technically savvy among both motorists and garages learn to forge or clone the fuel discount cards? !!! Come on - lets get real. The government is not going to save money as they will still have the overheads from running the vehicle database at DVLA Swansea so this experiment is doomed to line the pockets of crooks and to cost the government!

John Howard Norfolk, Tiverton, Devon, England

Sorry but I am unable to believe anything this governement says. This must be a new tax and we are being conned once again. It would take an awful lot to persuade me to buy into this scheme.

Owen Barnes, Watford,

This government is getting desperate. "The lets impose another tax" panel is running out of ideas. Yet they have do raise more taxes to pay the ever increasing debt they have accumulated. Blair apparently said his record in office will eventually be looked on favourably. Is he joking!. Ah well, just two more years............

sophie, norwich,

Going right back to the Tories, governments have been tiptoeing around this issue instead of getting on with it. Had they done so, we could have had many more than Ken Livingstone's little scheme in London by now, yielding funds that could have done much to improve public transport. It's just not true that a pricing scheme needs to track vehicles - the Smeed Committee more than 40 years ago came up with one that works by roadside beacons deducting units from an electronic card that you would top up like a phone card and carry in the car. Anyway, why are politicians and journalists always preoccupied with motorists to the exclusion of others who would benefit from clearer roads, such as people living on busy streets, asthma sufferers, the elderly and disabled, pedestrians, cyclists and bus users?

Barry, Wallington, UK

Absolutely Brilliant, M Jeffs of Bucks! A great idea.

It makes the point that it's not specifically the principle of paying for roads by class of road, distance and time of use that people object to. It's the data generated and the likelihood of unscrupulous use (abuse) of that data. And the lack of security. It is for me, anyway.

Yes, if they think it's a good idea, let them show the way.

David Hoggard, York, N. Yorks

Here we go again the goal post has been shifted to confuse the issue. This is nothing more than to raise more money for the chancelors coffers, trying to recover the money he lost with mistakes such as selling the gold reserves at the time the price of gold was at its lowest.>Oh and regarding the comparison with Oyster, well that's a laugh, the only reason so many people have Oyster card is because Ken has very cleverly given you a choice of higher public transport cost, compared to VERY high public transport cost. Let me explain before the fare was approx £0.60 pence for a single bus fare Now it is £1.00 with Oyster card (a 40% increase) and without the Oyster card it is £2.00. Which means you are forced to have an Oyster card. And let me tell you about the efficience of the Oyster card, if you do not complain the card some times deducts money incorrectly as I found out recenty and was only reimbursed after a lot of arguing and hassle. Therefore, NO NO NO.

Shahzad, London, UK

I drive to work every day on empty, uncongested roads in rural Perthshire. There is no congestion, so I wonder if I applied to switch to one of these black boxes instead of paying taxes, would I be accepted? Doubt it.

Adam Christie, Crieff, Perthshire

The British public, the motorist in particular, will never trust
this government - Gordon Brown- in particular to do anything more than increase taxation.

MP's, as usual, will be unaffected by these measures as their expense claims will simply increase to cover the extra cost.

Lets see Prescott get rid of his Jags and run a Corsa or Fiesta instead. Lets see Tony regularly on a bus, or the tube, and Gordon on a bike.

M J Merriman, Nottingham, England

Surely using volunteers will encourage low mileage users who do not trepresent the majority of road users, Government will then no doubt call it a success and do it anyway!!

No dount ministers and government workers will be exempt...

This this another tax grab by the Government no doubt backed by Mr Brown...

Brian Garvey, Sunninghill, UK

This is absolute nonsense. There is a huge amount of revenue generated by motoring on which the government relies to fund myriad areas of public service on top of the roads.It needs to maintain this level of taxation in order to maintain its spending capability. By introducing an intrusive new spy system, even if was tax neutral, it would still need to raise the extra billions it costs to run itself (so therefore it cannot be 'neutral' at all). Add to this the fact that once everyone is forced to have a black box, it becomes by its very nature another weapon in the tax arsenal of the exchequer, along with direct tax, national insurance and council tax(the latter of which has risen way above inflation every year since introduced). I can guarantee within 10 years it will appear in each budget with the chancellor announcing flat rate road charging per KM(he'll get more that way) and then a rising scale for congestion on top, with 6 monthly rises in duty whenever he has a tax shortfall

Bryan, Bembridge,

Surely nobody will fall for such an obvious trick?

Frank Upton, Solihull,

Events show the present government care nothing for petitions, referenda, or indeed protests. By way of example look at the referenda on a North East assembly. A resounding No for to one against, then out come the weasel words. The North East were voting on an elected regional assembly. The rejection merely allows the government to impose an unelected assembly. Northumberland County Council are now rushing headlong to abolish district councils in favour of either a unitary authority, or 2 unitary authorities. The electorate do not have any say. As for protests, two of the largest protests in this country have been seen under a labour government, the opposition to the hunting ban and the opposition to the war in Iraq. Neither have made any difference. Then we look at the petition against drive and tax. This looks like being completely ignored. Certainly on previous history, this is the likely outcome. More importantly there will always be a group of people who think it a good thing and

Nik O'tiegne, Newcastle, UK

Its one thing to offer an incentive to volunteers in a pilot scheme and another thing completely to roll it out over the whole of the UK.

once the scheme was in operation do we really believe it would be cheaper?

I think not, do they think we are idiots?

Michael C Fortune-Wood, Porthmadog,

Will there be discounts for people like us whose local roads were ploughed up to make room for the M25 or M3 for instance? We can't always avoid using the M25 car park , or M3 unless we go miles out of our way, using more petrol, so increasing pollution. The Govt. can't have it both ways.
We have 2 buses a day here. I can only have a hospital appointment at one hospital, which requires using 2 buses and a train, or 3 buses to reach. It takes anything up to 2 hours to get there by public transport, and quite frankly I wouldn't want my dog to be treated there. I can't get to any of the others unless I go by car.
What part of "NO" does this government not understand?
Most congestion in London got worse once the idea of a congestion charge was suggested. The sequencing of the Traffic Lights was tinkered with by Ken's Cronies. Ask any regular London driver. They all saw it happen.
Hey-ho - It's fleece the motorist time again to fill the black holes in Brown's Budget.

B.P.Russell, Windsor, England

Why not let Ministers test road pricing. Their mileage claims would become accurate for a start and they could get an idea of how it feels to be monitored as to where you go, at what time, by which route and where you park. In fact there is nothing to prevent a directive for all officials, staff, services (police, fire etc), quango staff and consultants working for local and central governments, who claim a mileage allowance or who are able to "work from home" to use these. After reviewing the results we as the general public can then decide whether we want them or not.

M Jeffs, Bucks, UK

If every citizen were to have a free luxury flat built on top of his place of work, that would reduce congestion by 100%. If it's good enough for our leaders it's good enough for us.
And while we are at it reduce petrol to £ 1.40 a gallon the same as our special friends across the pond.

John , March,, Cambs.

Ultimately road pricing of some form will be the only alternative. Look at the facts.

Nick, Southampton,

They are being disingeuous again, which is no surprise from Brown and Blair.
They won't use it to track vehicles? Nonsense, satellite systems DO track, and they already have a database monitoring vehicle movements based on cameras and numberplate recognition. They will track and record, to claim otherwise is untrue. Tax neutral? Nonsense. They have already promised to back the European SAtellite system it is based on, and it will have to be paid for by additional charges. They will reduce fuel tax? No they won't. They can't afford to give up the income. They'll cosmetically fiddle with rates and then double tax motorists. And finally, it isn't about reducing congestion. It's about maintaining it - they have and will have no base line of congestion at which they'd STOP the charge because congestion had ceased. You'll STILL pay it on nearly empty roads. We can never, ever, trust Blair and Brown, or indeed the NU-LAbour party again.

George Edwards, harrogate, UK

Road pricing is another TAX, it has nothing to do with congestion, or the environment.
When are politicians going to get the message, NO road pricing.
Which bit of the word NO, do they not understand????

Steve, Glasgow, UK

Yet another useless "initiative" from a useless "government"

Tom Katz, Weybridge, UK

Let's have another petition on this scheme and tell the DfT to put the scheme where the monkey puts its nuts!

Ian, Bristol,

Phil and/or Bob are right on point and it'll be DOA here. (Gov Schwarzenegger proposed a version that would tax you at the pump by measuring your travel from pump to pump. It died before the ink dried. we would all have 20 gal gas cans in our vehicles)
Oregon bumbledom in its proposal states that ALL vehicles have an equal impact on the roads.
DOA.

In 2001, the Oregon State Legislature authorized the creation of the Road User Fee Task Force to examine various revenue raising alternatives for replacing Oregon’s gas tax as the primary source of revenues for repairing, maintaining, and building Oregon’s roads.

Based on the results of the Pilot Program, (began in Mar 2006) ODOT will draft model legislation for the Oregon State Legislature to consider, beginning in 2009.
Enough time to bury it.
If you're interested
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/RUFPP/mileage.shtml

Toni, Santa Barbara,CA

Toni, Santa Barbara, Ca

For DfT officials to study any "trial" in Oregon is quite a laugh! The "Oregon Road User Fee Pilot Project" is a project to determine how the state raise more tax revenue than they are with the current ow 24-cent per gallon tax. They are using 285 "volunteers" to try and determine if plans similar to the DfT can capture more money than at the pump tax. It has NOTHING to do with congestion, it has nothing to do with the environment. It is simply another money-making scheme (sound familiar).

Bob Evans, anaheim, California

We are being conned again - do not be fooled. This is NOT tax neutral - we will have to pay for the infrastructure, running costs and large profits (with fat cat salaries) for the private firm running the system.

Garry Anderson, Haverhill, UK

"a discount on fuel duty in return for agreeing to pay a distance-based charge"

This only penalises those driving fuel-efficient cars - you'd be better off driving a gas-guzzler as paying a distance-based charge & getting reduction in fuel cost would save more money compared to a frugal car which didn't use much fuel in the first place (therefore doesnt get such a discount on duty).
I'm ignoring the cost of road tax for the different cars but comparing just road-miles cost.

Phil, hertford,

Well of course drivers do not belive them - the government has systematically lied, cheated and conned everyone for more than a decade. We expect the worst because that is a realistic expectation of what the present figurehead delivers.

With little tricks of deviousness like the 2p off income tax - but then aboloshing the 10p rate to remove the benefit from folks who need it most, is the sort of stunt that explains why the government would have folks disbelive it, if they announced that water is wet.

And since when has a government EVER brought in a new scheme where overall they do not take more money than before. Do they think we are ALL sheep ?

Mark Tibbert, Wellingborough, UK

Dress this up how you like. The petition said it all. Rightly or wrongly, the UK drivers don't want pay as you go. Listen to what is being said by those who elected you, and close the door on your way out please Mr Blair

mark r, coventry, uk

I agree that many roads are congested but i cant see the answer as lets just tax people, the majority of cars in UK congestion spots are persons going to their place of work who have no alternative, does Tony really think that people like sitting in traffic jams?

Peter, Aldershot, UK

You can see why the establishment disapproves of referenda. Those give clear instructions from the people as to what they want. How incovenient that often that isn't what the politicians, media leaders and bureaucrats want them to have.

The UK public doesn't want road pricing and its attendant state surveillance but the rulers of the country don't agree so they will lie and cheat and do whatever they can to get it in through the back door.

ian, bath,