Greg Hurst, Political Correspondent
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MPs took a big step towards shielding themselves from freedom of information requests yesterday as a move to exempt Parliament from disclosure laws cleared the Commons at the second attempt.
Legislation to remove MPs and peers from the legal duty to release information on request now passes to the House of Lords, where it will be the subject of a presummer battle.
With signs of tacit support from the Government and Conservative front bench, it will need an alliance of Liberal Democrats, crossbenchers and backbench Labour and Tory peers to stop it.
Right-to-know campaigners reacted with dismay after the Freedom of Information (Amendment) Act, which was presumed doomed after a handful of MPs talked it out in the Commons last month, was forced through by MPs after a classic parliamentary duel.
Maurice Frankel, of the Campaign for Freedom of Information, afterwards accused MPs of giving themselves protection they denied to those they represented and accused Ministers of secretly colluding with its Tory sponsor to let it pass.
“I cannot believe that a Government that is serious about freedom of information would have allowed that to happen,” Mr Frankel told The Times.
It follows moves by ministers to restrict the use of freedom of information powers by limiting the requests campaign groups and journalists may submit in order to curb administrative costs, although there have since been signs of a rethink.
During an ill-tempered debate of four and a half hours, with opponents and supporters using arcane procedural tricks to delay its progress or hasten its passage, its backers faced accusations of using a pretext to put themselves above the law.
David Maclean, the former Conservative Chief Whip who introduced the measure as a Private Member’s Bill, argued that it would prevent MPs’ letters raising confidential concerns of constituents being released by councils, health trusts or other public bodies. Mr Maclean, a member of the Commission that runs the House of Commons, said there were cases of this happening, even though officials should not release such information without consent.
Critics said that data protection legislation should already prevent such incidents, urging better enforcement, and that there was a hidden agenda to exempt Parliament from releasing other information such as MPs’ expenses. MPs have been forced into disclosing details of how much they claim on taxis, trains, flights and other transport after the previous practice of publishing a single figure for each MP’s travel expenses was challenged using freedom of information powers.
Mr Maclean pointed out that the Speaker, Michael Martin, had pledged to continue publishing details of MPs’ expenses. But opponents, led by the Labour MP Mark Fisher, said that such a voluntary offer did not carry the force of law. “People will be aghast and horrified and totally contemptuous of Parliament that we could place ourselves above the law in this country,” Mr Fisher said. “We are going to bring this House into derision, contempt and discredit with this Bill.”
Unusually for a Friday, when typically a small number of MPs debate backbench Bills, 144 took part in the first of a series of votes, many of them government supporters. A group of Lib Dems tried to delay the debate by presenting armfuls of petitions, followed by speeches, but were soon stopped. The motion was carried by 113 votes to 27. During the debate Bridget Prentice, the Justice Minister, said the Government was neutral and did not vote herself.
Staying hidden
— Incidents of internal security lapses with contractors or protesters in Parliament
— Cases of unauthorised access to MPs or ministers’ offices in Commons
— Discoveries or reports of safety shortcomings in the parliamentary estate
— Wasteful spending on construction projects in the Commons or Lords
— Extragavant use of public funds for hospitality, lavish wallpaper or similar
Source: Campaign for Freedom of Information
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This administration really substantiates George Orwells animal farm . It is an exact Parrallel. This will go down in the annals of history as a misguided snouts in the trough syndrome by M.P.s. Making laws for the people but not awilling to abide by them themselves.
Mike Davey, Rugeley, staffordshire, United Kingdom
"How can these guys get away with it? Woe, Democracy!
Edwin Thornber"
They don't have too. It's possible to find out which way your MP voted (a quick search on the internet will do it) and adjust your vote accordingly. Needless to say my "representative" (ahem) shall be recieving no vote from me next year.
Graham, Edinburgh,
Has not the cry in this country long been "\No-one (not even the Monarch) is aboved the law? The simple answer to this misuse of power lies surely in the Judiciary declaring the claim to exemption to be illegal. Recent years have seen Judges over-rule the legislature by using international law. Here is a case far more deserving of legal prohibition than many that our Judges have enforced - and based on home grown justice for a change.
JC , Berkhamsted, Herts
It's not that long ago that I , and thousands of others in MP Angela Eagle's Wallasey constituency, received an expensively printed glossy brochure full of colour pictures showing her meeting local people for various reasons, but all so dull that the Wirral media quite rightly had rejected them as un-newsworthy.
In very small type on the back page it said that this ego-trip had been financed by a special House of Commons fund.... (the taxpayer!) Now our publicity-seeking MP has voted to protect herself and her colleagues from freedom of information laws... Will this spare us from more of her junk mail?
Martyn L, Wallasey,
So that's it? The whole, rotten lot of them are making an exception of themselves on the excuse of confidentiality with their constituents. Tell me, what about the confidentiality between solicitor and client? Doctor and patient? Bank Manager and client?
Why are MPs such special cases? What we need is an election. But, oh yes, there's no real opposition to this, is there? The Opposition leadership have tacitly' given their approval to this disgraceful conspiracy of hubris. Meaning, they tell us, "Oh well yes, I don't really know what to say? I mean, the name 'Opposition' is only a phrase. It doesn't reflect the wider reality of our position. Being an MP is a tough job these days, you know? Believe me. And then one can begin to understand the notion that 'accountability' is a needless complication that only serves to impede the career of ... I mean, the 'efficiency' and 'productivity levels' of your representatives."
How can these guys get away with it? Woe, Democracy!
Edwin Thornber, Bucharest, Romania
Stalin would have been proud of them. He would have stood on the high platform of office and shouted his love of the cause, while his sly hand betrayed all.
There is a foul smell rising from amongst those benches. Should i be that dishonorable, i could not look in the mirror let alone at the masses of this country who look to them to have more honour than some banana republic grifter.
john backley, liverpool, uk
This is like everything else in a democracy. Vote with your feet. You want to stop speed cameras, don't speed, they will become redundant. You want accountability then vote for the right MP who will give you it, It's your vote, find out who voted in favour of secrecy and lies and write and tell him that you won't be getting your vote. It's what I did. I moved to Scotland. The SNP want No Trident, No Poll Tax and Independence. So I voted for Mr Salmond. If he doesn't achieve his aims by 2011 then I look elsewhere. Stop complaining.... DO IT
dachaidh, rhu, scotland
When Hansard is updated is should be possible to check which way MPs voted, I believe that there should be a campaign to vote out any MP that did not vote against this bill irrespective of party.
Joseph K , St Albans,
Yet again we see a group of so called elected representatives of the people making rules for others to follow then ensuring they they are excluded from having to follow those same rules.
They claim to make laws and rules for the better good of the people of this country but consider that they should be excluded from them if it suits their purpose.
Is there not a case of discrimination here???????
G D E, Morecambe, Lancashire
What has happened to Governments approach to openness and transparency? In an age of ever increasing free access to information and an environment where Freedom of Information practitioners are urged to consider information requests from a greater disclosure standpoint, this vote makes a mockery of the act and the balanced and open approach that many of the public authority FOI practitioners take on a day to day basis. MP's should not be able to exempt themselves, whilst thousands of other public bodies, organisations and their employees remain subject to its obligations.
Hayl, Newcastle upon Tyne,
We have a representative parliamentary system. This means we choose to vote for a candidate because of the sort of person they make themselves appear to be, in the hope that their voting on issues in parliament will reflect that image that we chose. (The alternative is a delegate system where delegates are told how to vote.)
In this system anything kept from the voters matters. Like a health minister owning too many undeclared shares in a private healthcare business. Like a PM who's practicing to be a Catholic and who takes us to war with Islam. Like the 4 candidates for the leader of the liberals including an undeclared alchoholic and two undeclared homosexuals. The candidate who trots their family in front of the voters and hides the office affair is just as guilty of misrepresentation as an MP taking bribes.
I shan't be voting for anyone who votes for further restrictions on information, assuming the information about who voted is still available...
Chris, Cambridge, England
Surely this vote has to be a BIG nail in the governments coffin.
Another daily reason why like me people are leaving the UK in droves to live as far away as they can from what they call here ' Madland '
Chris. Cyprus, Paphos, Cyprus
Didn't these same members of parliament vote themselves a very large pay rise recently?
This just goes to show that this government has no regard for it's citizens. One law for us and another for the "Rulers". The inference being of course that presumably they want this brought in because they have somethingt to hide in the first place.
T. Heywood, Stockport,
These MPs have voted themselves huge pay & allowances rises, plus pensions increases, all of which are ring fenced & so are safeguarded from any outside interference, a protection which they deny the rest of the population & now, after forcing the Freedom of Information Act on the population and public services, they have the bare faced cheek to vote themselves an exemption from it. What sort of a democracy have we got in this country when the legislators can get away with telling us to do what they say & not what they do. It's a disgrace. It's behaviour that even Mugabe in Zimbabwe would have trouble getting away with. How can something this important be voted through by a handful of MPs. Only 90 odd of them voted for it. Let's hope that the other useless lot in the Lords votes against it. What a bunch of hypocrites & parasites our MPs are. When are the ordinary people of this country going to wake up and insist that we have our democracy back & remove the MPs snouts from the trough
Lynda Plum, London, england
This kind of behaviour has seeped through our political system right down to our local councils. Our political system is rotten, run by people who appear to serve themselves rather than their electorate. How can we fight against such corosion of a once great democracy?
Melissa, Keighley,
well , they can vote themselves a payrise whenever they want, now they have voted to keep it quiet what they spend it on(rentboys, pro's lavish boudoirs?), what is it with this country and the way the people take it on the chin every time,
we are losing more and more rights every day and it is now officially a police state without a doubt we are not freemen
what will it take to get the people to make the government reverse these dictorials laws?
ohh and now we have the fuzz carrying 'zap guns' , it's gonna be 'pecik those quavers off the floor or face the wrath of 'electro cop'!
i dread what its going to be like in 10 years time, god help all britons as we are to be lambs to the big brotherhood slaughterhouse
fred barry, barry, england
this seems typical of modern politicians.
they seem to forget that they are working for US.
how can it be right for them to be able to pass an act that prevents the freedom of information.
yet another case of the tail wagging the dog.
the sooner we get proportional representation, something they seem to forget they promised, AND some sort of constitution the better.
s. jones, bury, lancashire
None of these self-serving parasites will be getting my vote from now on.
Trevor Martindale, Romford, England
Having MPs vote to be exempt from law on freedom of information is like getting staff members to vote for a pay increase!
Where's the democracy in that?
James Burgess, London, UK
What's that funny smell? Is it the sewage in the Thames again?
No, it's just the stench of corruption and hypocrisy from the House.
C Byrne, Pinner, UK
The day after Gordon Brown promises a new style of govenment, a new openess to regain the trust of the electorate, Brownite heavy-hitters like Ed Balls and others are voting to protect themselves from the FoI act. No change there then.
In addition to that, our next Prime Minister had nothing to say about the subject and as far as I am concerned, has already fallen at the first hurdle.
H, Huntingdon,
Surely this has to be a BIG nail in the governments coffin.
Yet Another daily reason why like me people are leaving in droves the place they call here ' Madland ' and living abroad.
Chris. Cyprus, Paphos, Cyprus
All animals are equal but some are more equal than others
Bryan Jackson, Leicester, UK
I would like to see The Times publish a list of how individual members of parliament voted. Then we could either praise our own MP - or punish him/her at the next election.
Rowena Lee-Felthouse, London,
MPs always behave as if Democracy is too important to let the electorate decide. The real issues and questions are never put. Bye the way they also failed to renew the contract of the obudsman who regulated them---too critical of their behaviour you see!
R James, Clifton,
What a total disgrace.The Tories have done themselves no favours by being the perpertrators of this bill. So much for Gordon Browns 'more openness and government accountability! The party that vows to get rid of this abomination will get my vote!
BARBARA NERI, BARNSTAPLE, DEVON
Will the hoped for exemption be retrospective and how long before Local Councillors demand the same preferential treatment?
Dr H M Buckland, Grimsby, NE Lincs
It just confirms to the voters that MP's just cannot be trusted.This will no doubt reflect their popularity at the next general election by hopefully voter's voting these greedy self opinionated people out of their office and back to their second, or third, or fourth jobs that they have.
Tom Slattery, Paisley, Scotland
For those who don't want freedom of Information must have something to hide !
I am not a MP or Peer and have no say in it, so what makes you (the MP or Peer) so special from me ?????
P Heeson, Doncaster, UK
Why is this no surprise?
Will politicians ever remember they are supposed to be there to do what the people want, not to turn into parental figures making their own rules for themselves as they desperately cling to the power they've tasted while giving us a condescending pat on the head.
L M, Lincoln, UK
Disgusted. This is one of the things we most need to be able to find out about. They are spending our money and lives and deciding our services after all.
Hilary Gee, cartmel, Cumbria