Interesting to contrast Lord Owen's views with those of Ken Clarke (on the BBC today). What is it about Europhiles which makes them so averse to referenda? They talk of Parliamentary sovereignty but Parliament is hardly sovereign - Blair often ignored it while many of our powers seem to have been ceded to unelected elite in Europe. Lord Owen makes a number of strong points. Unfortunately Brown will not give us a referendum on this treaty which may indeed be very different from a Constitution. Trouble is many people simply don't believe politicians anymore - especially when we are denied a say. Perhaps the best way forward would be for individuals to write to their MPs and request them to vote this treaty down.

Ian Burgess, Bristol,

Tony Blair is suppose to be also a Barrister.Did he obtain these credentials from the internet.Because he is either in collusion
with the French & German Leaders or there are running rings around him.

A Walton, Leicester, England

Of course it will all turn to custard like everything
else Blair has been involved with. He wants Britain
in with the pack so he can be the first president.
The other point I would make is with the change in voting Germany will finally have control of Europe
after close to 100 years of trying by force of arms.

Barry Holmes, Christchurch, New Zealand

It is with depressed resignation that I view the inevitable comments from BNP supporters on this page. It appears that whenever there is an article on the European union, these people are waiting to comment on it with their uninformed views. Whatever your opinion on european integration, voting for a party who's manifesto is based on backward isolationism, racism and frankly unworkable policies is not an answer. The sad thing is, like the nazis in 1930's Germany, the BNP are appealing to ordinary, decent people who are blind to their true motives. Our current government, through its lack of effective leadership, is handing the country to them on a plate.

Rob King, Norwich ,

Like it or not,at the moment the only eurosceptic party is the British National Party.

giuseppe de santis, london,

Having worked for the Commission in Brussels I was horrified at the internal corruption. Now even when corruption is discovered, no-one gets punished or disgraced. Millions of UK taxpayers money has been wasted. It is so big now, I am sure the left-hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Keep separate Constitutions for separate countries. Each country has different needs, but what this country needs is to tackle the causes of poverty and the poor treatment of the elderly and their Carers. The Governement should be doing this and it is not necessary to go to the expense of changing the Constitution.

Molly Dee, North Slough, United Kingdom

it is now time ,and it is slowly dawning on the british people .that we should now withdraw from the eu .it is now clear what this is allabout and it is not about sharing trade .the referendum should be about withdrawing from this corrupt union .roll on the day we withdraw .

david knox, bishops stortford, herts

What rubbish: those sad anti-Europeans (anti-English by definition..) are just trying to block progress as usual.

In England we have a parliamentary democracy: we have voted for a government that thankfully realises that our place is in the heart of Europe and hopefully one day they will have the courage to introduce the euro.

This is a government decision and there is no precedence or need for a referendum, until the day that we are governed by The Sun rather than parliament.

Peter GODDARD, EPSOM, England, EU

I wonder whether Lord Owen is capable of allowing into his imagination the idea that much of the euroscepticism that exists in this country is nothing whatsoever to do with a dislike or distrust of the people of our continental neighbours. Nor is it related to the thought that the disappearance of our national sovereignty will automatically lead to us being worse off.

No, the negative feeling of many of us is caused by a distrust of the politico-administrative systems that have been put in place, and of the competence and motivation of the people who operate from within them. We're not sceptical of Europe, just of the EU. Political decision-making, in the hands of the right people, will be the greatest contributor to a people's happiness and vigour. In the wrong hands it's a depressing nightmare.

Maybe Lord Owen should stop and think whether a great stride forward is possible, but that we'll never find the path to it from within the framework of contemporary orthodoxy.

Simon Stephenson, Windermere, UK

Is there a philanthopic organization or wealthy group of individuals willing to fund an "unofficial" referendum? The Electoral Commission could be hired to oversee it. It would cost quite a lot of money, but many people would surely volunteer to help organize it. If the turnout hit 50-60%, the Government could not possibly claim it was an unrepresentative event. The relentless move to transfer ever more power to unelected and undemocratic institutions in Brussels can surely be resisted.

Nick Beard, Seattle, USA (ex-UK)

A referendum is essential. We had one on the original decision to enter the Common Market. We have not had a chance since to make the national will known on this most important of constitutional issues.

The argument that things are not done by plebiscite in a parliamentary democracy does not hold water. All ordinary decisions are reversible, and a general election can entirely change the situation. A constitutional change, binding on us into the indefinite future, is something different, as the government recognised at the time of the first referendum.

Even in countries where constitutions can be amended by a parliament there is usually a high threshold to cross, typically a 2/3 majority. Here we risk being committed by a simple majority whipped by a lame duck government.

Michael Bruce, Selby, Yorkshire

We must not have a referendum on this treaty, because most Brits haven't got a clue about what this treaty is about. They refuse to look further than the headlines of the Dialy Mail and xenophobic gossip and lies. And the only "abroad" they've ever seen is a beach in Mallorca.

starling, Lancaster,

I agree with the above comments.
I receive articles emailed every day from European newspapers and the concensus seems to be that a majority of the peoples of Europe would like a referendum on the con.., sorry, reform treaty.
I can only quote to our 'leaders' the poet G K Chesterton when he said:-
"We are the people of England and we have not spoken yet."

Ray Neal, Coventry, England

I agree with you Herbert Thornton. The BNP is Britain's last hope. Our country has been ruined not just by membership of a supranational organisation which the people of Britain never wanted but (our politicians only ever had a mandate for us to be in a 'Common Market') by rampant PC and totally uncontrolled immigration. It's time for the BNP.

Barry, Brentwood, United Kingdom

Let's have a referendum and return to a previous age.

Bob, London, UK

Over to you Gordon!

If you want to create a legacy, which seems to be fashionable at the moment, you should stand up for the democratic rights of the British people by calling a referendum on the proposed EU super-state.

Presumably, during your stay at HM Treasury, you have already had costed how much EU membership means for the UK. If the result of a referendum is a resounding no, and if this should happen to be the first step of our withdrawal from an unreformable and anti-democratic EU, you should already have some ideas on the options open to our nation.

You never know, if handled intelligently, you could be on the way to being classed alongside Winston Churchill and Margaret Thatcher.

Constantinople_1453, Hastings, England

What rubbish: those sad anti-Europeans (anti-English by definition..) are just trying to block progress as usual.

In England we have a parliamentary democracy: we have voted for a government that thankfully realises that our place is in the heart of Europe and hopefully one day they will have the courage to introduce the euro.

This is a government decision and there is no precedence or need for a referendum, until the day that we are governed by The Sun rather than parliament.

Peter GODDARD, EPSOM, England, EU

Paul Owen of Birmingham I salute you.

In four short paragraphs you have identified what is happening more succinctly than the author, who I assume is no relation.

I wonder if there is are any truly independent newspapers or ISPs in the EU prepared to publish your words and invite readers to vote yes or no to your proposal?

Trevor Hughes, Pampanga, Philippines

To David, Dubai, UAE:

what overwhelming arrogance! "ill-informed posturing"? If you wish to compare the Constitution with this "new" document, go right ahead, inform yourself before you criticise others. You'll find they are almost identical in all but name. The government was elected on the promise of a referendum. Without this promise, who knows how the election would have turned out?

Richard Carey, London, England

If Brown wants to leave the EU he should do so. Boy would that get messy for Britain´s economy... and all those overly correct self-declared democracy bean counters (but only when it comes to the EU of course) facing personal economic misery (yes that´s what it means when the macroeconomics don´t bode well) will be crying full of pain demanding an immediate entry to that exclusive club promising prosperity, free trade and access to huge markets.

Paul, London, UK

Clearly the fudging by all European "leaders" is to avoid a referendum where they might lose the vote, thus defeating the whole constitutional treaty project.

This is hameful for an organisation that claims to be for all Europeans. Why shouldn't all Europeans have a referendum on this?

Jon Casson, Vienna, Austria

I find it depressing that a man for whom I had a high respect and voted for as my MP has got so separated from democracy, reality and politics.

We elect politicians precisely to handle fudges like the one that just seems to have occurred this week. The reality is that the politicos have found a formula that meets the moderate aspirations of the most energetic EU members but not so extreme that the EU minnows like UK and Poland can reject it. By fudging the issue the change is not so extreme that we need a referendum and wreck the only way forward for the next five years or so in the EU.

Anyone with any sense realises that the EU is an important economic institution for the UK and controlling the federal desire of the fast-trackers has to be done carefully, but once it is done it cannot be allowed to unravel due to ill-informed posturing by the UK electorate or worse, former politicians.

David, Dubai, UAE

I agree with Lord Owen except I am vigorously opposed to memebership of a corrupt and power crazy so called elites in the EU camp at Brussels.They have too much power and it needs to be brought back to elected ,members of the House of Commons in the UK. We need to leave the EU to reqain our independance and freedom and bring back Common sense to our country. The people who in Government passed and present who signed away our rights should be tried for treason. A country cannot be ruled by an unaccountable bureaucracy this is not Democracy.
Taff

David Owen, Hereford, UK

People across Europe should demand a referendum . We should demand the right to have a say on a treaty which has clearly been designed specifically to justify denying them that right.

It is time to call a halt to the arrogant presumption of our so called elites that they know best and can railroad us to go down the road to a superstate nobody has authorised them to pursue.

If we are to become what they want us to be then we should take that path advisedly and not in the ad hoc undemocratic way pursued thus far. If they are so confident this is the correct path for Europe why can't they have the courage of their convictions and argue for it directly and set up robust and democratic institutions to manage it properly?

If Gordon Brown wants to make a real mark in his first days in office he should declare a referendum immediately and then, when it is resolutely rejected, he should argue for starting Europe afresh with a clean sheet of paper. Democracy is not a dirty word.

Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK

A referendum about Europe from Brown & Co.? Fat chance. Gordon Brown & New Labour don't want to let the people choose - and, for that matter, neither do Cameron & his Tories.

The only party that really wants to extricate Britain from the all pervasive dictatorship and interference of European bureaucrats is the BNP - but people have been too brainwashed by the BBC and the media to vote them into power. It has created so much apathy that a great many people no longer bother to vote.

The electorate have been made into sheep. Most current politicians are just like sheepdogs, obediently herding the sheep into the fold of Europe.

Herbert Thornton, Victoria, Canada