Tom Gordon
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WENDY ALEXANDER has been dealt an embarrassing blow in her first week as Scottish Labour leader after footage emerged of her husband making a case for independence.
Professor Brian Ashcroft, policy director of the pro-Union economic think-tank, the Fraser of Allander Institute, was filmed arguing that Scotland would be more prosperous as a separate country than having full tax-raising powers as part of the UK.
Addressing a private seminar in May, Ashcroft said an independent Scotland would join an “arc of prosperity”, comprising other affluent small European states.
One of his wife’s first actions as leader was to commit to a review of the devolution settlement with the option of giving the Scottish parliament the power to raise all of the £30 billion it spends every year.
Ashcroft told delegates at an Edinburgh seminar organised by Visit Scotland, that full fiscal autonomy was “an absurdity” found nowhere else in the world. “Against that option, full-blown independence might be better, because . . . you can do many more things,” he added. “If you’re being forced to balance your books, then I think the logic is ‘be independent’, don’t do it within the Union. So you heard it here first - the argument for independence.”
Labour yesterday sought to play down the row, dismissing it as a “throwaway remark”. However, Pat Kane, who captured Ashcroft on video, said his comments were included in a Powerpoint presentation. “The reaction in the room was one of shock. People were thinking, ‘Did Brian Ashcroft just say that?’ ” said Kane.
Alex Neil, the nationalist MSP, said: “It must be be the first time in history there’s been a marital row over fiscal autonomy.”
Yesterday Ashcroft said his preferred option was for “fiscal federalism” where some, but not all, tax powers were devolved to Holyrood.
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Its strange .because Alex salmond and SNP .Have been ridiculed hissed at etc etc Because they want independence etc.So its quite amusing to see the 3 unionist paries in Scotland scrambling over each other to give Scotland more Devolved Power.talk about 2 faced !very clever man Mr Salmond ,he must be laughing his head of .Nice one .
D Paterson, Blackpool, Lancs
Scotland has 30 years of oil left then, and always had (from 1974) 63 years ortere abouts...
So a newly independent Scotland won't need to join the EEC then an Alex Salmond and the rest of the political classes won't get their pay cheques from Brussels. As with some latter day Darian scheme they will be self sufficient which the UK won't, even though we have about 300 years of coal left and are within the golden triangle. Mmmmm and I seem to recall that oil can be processed from this. As we always sponge off the Scots we won't of course be using Imperial College scientists to do this of course, we will be using Scottish scientists whom Scotland have subsidised though free university places after seeking a mandate from their Scottish parliament (paid for by them, built exactly on budget and time).
Pete Balchin, Solicitor , Bristol, UK
I am convinced that the UK should now split up - in fact it should have split up in 1997 - just read many comments n this rticle. Many Scots say that North Sea oil belongs to Scotland and not the UK, that's OK by me and many English people as as long you don't seek money from the UK government Barnett Formulae, free university, free cancer drugs not available in Engand, free care for the elderly, etc, etc. that are not available in England thanks to Scottish Labour
Scotland does not have the immigrant cities England has and is not overpopulated, not had your culture deliberately marginalised by excessive anglophobic multitculturalism again enforced by anti-English marxist Scottish Labour. Once you have your multicultural Bradfords and Leicester's then we'll see if you still complain about the 'oil theft'.
francis, Sunderland, England
Independence for England I say. Lets drop these scrounging hangers on in Wales and Scotland who continuously carp about how bad England is for them and blame us for all their ills. Fine by me, crack on and fend for yourselves without our money. Get rid of all those Scottish MPs voting on English issues and put England in the hands of the English.
Andy, Cee,
Err, the article (and Ashcroft) says "his preferred option was for âfiscal federalismâ. Whether he's right or wrong, he ISN'T saying independence!
Brad, Glasgow,
Wendy Alexander's comments just show how hypocritical the Scottish Labour Party are. One minute they are unionists as long as they are getting more than their fair share of the pie, and become nationalist once they don't get their own way. The Labour Party has been the UK's internal enemy and Trojan Horse for those groups and individuals hostile to the UK
I am a proud Englishman and Tory voter and have been getting sick of the current state of the UK, and I am no longer a unionist, no longer British but English and support full independence for all home nations in particular for England. Labour are responsible for the devolution mess, unlimited immigration and are playing 'Auld Enemy' politics. In time they wll be held to account once the electorate find them out. It is highly unlikely that Gordon Brown will call an early election because at best he may only win a tiny majority (less than 10) and he would rely more on the votes of Scottish/Welsh MPs
francis, Sunderland, England
When are we going to grow up as a nation and start thinking like the greatest wee country in the world?
We in Scotland talk a good game but untill we can stand up and be independent we will always be looked down on.
We regularily punch above our weight and don't get the benefit so lets do it as an independent Scotland and reep the rewards.
Alex, Glasgow, Scotland
Of all the countries that have opted for independence from Westminster rule how many does Mr Fletcher think have had second thoughts and wished to return to the fold?
Ken MacColl , Blamafoldach, Scotland
Its really about time we scrapped this British nonsense. The case for retaining this unnecessary and wasteful overhead is just no longer tenable.
For those who have eyes to see and brains to interpret, the rationale for its retention disappeared over 50 years ago and was finally laid to rest when Heath took the UK into the EEC.
Ludicrous arguments relating to "gives us influence in the world/sec.council membership" or "shared British values/family ties" (we share values and have family ties across many countries) are just nonsense. Internationally, GB simply plugs us into whichever madman is in the White House. I am sure most Scots don't want this and I suspect many English people don't either.
Only the self-interested myopia of those whose careers depend on this pastiche imperial relic have any interest in retaining the status quo. Reform a loose association of British states by all means but lets free each of the nations on this island from this withered old corset
CowalDude, Alba,
Dear Mr Fletcher from Canterbuy. Thanks as ever for talking down my country. You have obviously swallowed whole the Scots Unionist line, but which we, thankfully in greater numbers, no longer belief. I know the Barnet Formulae argument is churned out time after time, but please remember that it is our OIL which kept Thatcher afloat against the miner's strike (I am quoting from Andrew Marr's excellent BBC2 programme, History of Britain) and has kept South East of England rich. A report recently in a Scots newspaper say that there is a good 30 years left in North Sea oil, so if sadly we don't break away from England you will be subsidised for a little bit longer.
Anne Galloway, Glasgow, Scotland
I was at that meeting.
Pat Kane's contention that the room was in shock is just nonsense.
It was a thoughtful presentation intended to make us consider various options. No-one was shocked that he mentioned all possible options for the future - given that was his stated intention.
The only shock is that the self-appointed commentator and erstwhile crooner filmed this himself then released it for a cheap political gag. Guess hw won't be getting many invites now.
A Scotsman, Edinburgh,
Your readers should look at the BBC web site where they will find that, according to released papers, Westminster deliberately sabotaged Scotland's referendum on independence in the 70's because without the oil the UK government would have become bankrupt and have to apply to the World Bank. Scotland is the only country in the world which has become poorer after a major oil find.
As for the West Lothian question why has it become an issue in the last couple of years only? English MP's were voting on Scottish only matters for centuries. Not least when an English MP submitted, which was passed by the majority (being English) that the aforementioned Scottish referendum had to achieve an impossible majority not seen before, to become facilitate independence. The result of this fix was Westminster could plunder the wealth of the oil fields. Funny how attitudes change when the boot is on the other foot!
Alex., Edinburgh,
The sooner my tax pounds stop subsidising better public services north of the border than the Scottish elite ruling the country give me access to, the better. It's simply unnaceptable to run a country this way and expect the people to take it. Particularly a government that supposedly believes in equality! Ha! Altogether now, 'Independence for Scotland!' Nothing personal by the way, I would think it grossly unfair the other way around as well.
And if it's true this hasn't been reported in Scotland that is a scandal, what happened to the fourth estate exactly? Do they remember they are vital for a healthy democracy? Toads.
Alison, London,
The only way forward for Scotland is independence and the quicker it comes the better.
Craig, Port Glasgow, Scotland
The quicker independence comes for us Scots the better.
Neil, Greenock, Scotland
Full independence is the only way forward for Scotland.
Craig, Inverclyde, Scotland
Typically, The Hootsmon have completely ignored this story. Thank you for publishing it, Times!!! My smile of the day! :D
Boy Wonder, Edinburgh,
Full independence for Scotland, now!!!!
Craig, Inverclyde, Scotland
Full independence for Scotland, now!!!!!!!
Craig, Inverclyde, Scotland
I love it......
Dick, Aberdeenshire,
Classic misreporting by the press.
The guy said that fiscal independence makes even less sense than full independence, and that is somehow twisted to make it look like he is pro-independence.
Joe, London,
Ouch, four years sleeping on the sofa.
Oscar MacApfel, Dumfries,
just goes to show who has the brains in wendy's house,!!
of course she must have known what he thinks!!, bet its caused some problems, HE'S right ofcourse, i'm sure she will face many embarresing moments over her trying to pull the wool over us scots eyes, well done Tom Gordon, AND THE TIMES for exposing the hypocracy, and doing the job THE SCOTS PAPERS DONT HAVE GUTS TO DO.
mairi macleod, alba, scotland
Perhaps there is a secret 5th column working within Labour ranks
which now recognises the inevitability of the progress towards Independence now being made with he removal of so many dead hands from our tiller. There is still room for a socialist party in the new Scotland should they wish to grasp the opportunity which Independence will provide.
Donald, Oban, Scotland
Doghouse time. But he's right and she is wrong.
paul h, tayport, fife
Even Ashcroft doesn't listen to WeeWindy.............an "alleged" labour intellectual (a supreme contradiction).
Make no mistake one and all.the Scots are off sooner than you might imagine down here !!.........but they'll STILL be good neighbours, and no longer surly lodgers !!
Rab McClair, LONDON, HELL
Being of the Scottish Nationalist persuasion, I cannot say how much this article has cheered me up!
Haven't seen it reported in the Scottish based papers though. How odd.
Derick, Stirlingshire, Scotland
I can't see their being much peace and harmony in the Alexander household this weekend. I only hope that their neighbours have adequately soundproofed their homes. One can only imagine the howls of anguish emanating from Wendy. Yes, the truth is indeed a bitch. Ashcroft is only enunciating what more and more Scots are finally coming round to accept - that the only way forwards for their country is full independence, and nothing less will be acceptable.
Guru Gordon, Sunbury, PA, USA
Thank goodness for honesty and plain-speaking (albeit at a private seminar). He's only saying out loud what many of us (especially English people in England) are thinking. Scots wahey! Go for it, join the "arc of prosperity". But don't ask to be let back into the Union if the gold at the end of the rainbow turns out to be dross.
J.Fletcher, Canterbury, UK