You seem to have been very quiet recently. What have you been up to?

I’ve been in the office a lot and working on my speech and planning stuff for the conference. It’s been much more like an office job actually. Much more, sort of, quite quiet.

You’ve been enjoying a break from it all then?

Well I’ve done the odd bit and piece here and there but, while the other party’s have their party conference they get the lime-light and you just, sort of, hunker down get on with your planning. So, we’ve had lots of time to hunker down and plan the election, which has been good. The machine is really ready for an election. In terms of candidates, how we handle that and the budget the money and obviously those big donations have made a big difference.

Do you think Gordon is going to go for it?

I think he’s got himself into a position now where either he bottles it or he has given us a hell of a lot of notice of his intentions and it’s very difficult to tell. I’ve always thought it’s a very strong possibility. He should stop dithering. I thought actually a very early autumn election a very strong possibility because I thought he would want to have the European Summit - when he’s not giving people a referendum on something he’s been signing up to right in the middle of an election campaign.

This must be a very tense time for you. I just wondered whether Gordon Brown ever features in your dreams - maybe as a big clunking fist coming towards you?

No, no he doesn’t, I sleep very soundly and very well. I’m very excited about the prospect of an early election. Particularly having the last few weeks being able to plan for it very comprehensively. I’m really up for it. I think that the opportunity to get out there and put the arguments in front of people about, there is an option of real change. But real change you have to vote for. I think it’s a fantastic opportunity. And the polls have been incredibly volatile. We’ve gone from 10 points ahead, to level pegging, to ten points behind, back to level pegging and now behind again. You know, it is incredibly volatile. Men and women out there in our country, I think, have not made up their mind. And the opportunity to get out there and talk about real change, about the new world that we’re all living in, the politics that is not delivering, and the change that’s required. I’m just ready to go.

You’ve been leader for some time now. How has it affected your work-life balance?

Not too bad

Do you worry about the family and your kids being in the spotlight during the election?

Um, yeah, no sort of, they’re too young to know. You know, they’re not going to be appearing on platforms for me or anything. They’re living in a wonderful world of tiny tots and big adventures. Obviously the work-life balance issue is difficult but I keep a reasonable balance even when we’re at the height of election planning.

You’ll try and keep them out of any election campaign?

Yes, I mean I don’t hide my children away. You know, they sometimes get photographed. I don’t hide my children away, they’re party of my life and obviously it’s a sort of judgment about how much of your home-life you open up to people. I just try and make the right judgement.

If the Prime Minister does call a snap poll have you got time to pull together all those million and one ideas that have come out of your policy reviews?

Yes, yes. I think that’s a very good question. But I absolutely think yes. What you’re going to see this week from the conservatives is very clear definition, very clear direction. You’ll see those ideas from the policy review that we will junk and those ideas that we will take forward and put into the manifesto. And you’re going to see three very clear themes emerge.

The first one is giving people more opportunity and power and control over their lives. So we’re going to talk in a minute about stamp duty. The bottom rung of the housing ladder is broken, we need to mend it, we need to help young people onto that ladder. So, scrapping stamp duty for first time buyers on flats up to £250,000 to help nine of ten people. It’s a classic example of the conservative party being a party of aspiration, giving you power and control over your life.

The second big theme, not surprisingly, is stronger families and a more responsible society. It’s the only way that we’re going to combat crime and anti-social behaviour and make our society stronger. And you’re going to see a series of things in terms of strengthening families and marriage and helping couples that come together and stay together. Giving the police more power to intervene. The national citizen’s service. Young people taking part in community activity at the age of 16.

The third theme, a safer, greener country. Again, absolutely vital. Something conservatives believe in their hearts. We need stronger defence, we need to empower police. We need to deal with threats like climate change.

So, a really clear program. I think Gordon Brown has given us a massive opportunity because his speech was a shopping list of things, most of which he has said he would do before and has not yet done. And there was no, think back to your maths, there was no working out, no ‘how?’. There was no explanation of how he was going to do these things and I think the opportunity for the conservatives is, given that people want change, given that he’s just provided a shopping list with no explanation of how it’s done. If we can explain how we will make the real change people want, then people will vote for real change. You know, the referendum is a good example. People have more control over their private lives, their family life, they don’t understand why people in politics have to take what they’re given. And that’s why we say you should have power and control, you should have that vote on a European Referendum, on the European Constitution and Brown won’t do that. I think it’s one example of many I could give.

So basically you’re going to fight back and answer your critics?

Yeah, it’s a very big fight back for the conservatives. Obviously we need a really strong performance to show people exactly what we stand for and show people exactly what we would do. And vitally, how we would do it. We’ve really got to. The ‘how’ is terribly important.

All politicians stand up and say, I’m going to improve your school, I’m going to clean your hospital, I going to make your health service first class. People have heard this, people have heard this till they’re sick to the back teeth of it. So they want to know, how are you going to do this. You know, I could take any one of those. Education for instance, why is it that labour has failed. They’ve poured the money in, they said that it was their number one priority. They’ve completely failed to break the monopoly of state education and allowed new companies to come in, set up schools and new charities and other organisations to do that, because they just wont take on the educational establishment. They failed to deal with falling educational standards, they keep announcing these packages of rigour, but two days later the QCA comes out and says ‘no more teaching Churchill and the children can mark their each others homework’. We’ve got to show how we will change those things so there will be real rigour and discipline as I’ve said about head teachers being able to exclude difficult pupils. The how is terribly important as well as the what.

What about the charges that you have squandered your lead, that you lack substance and you’ve lately been opportunist – on immigration for instance?

That’s ridiculous, I mean, on immigration I answered a question on Newsnight and I gave a very sensible answer. If there’s any part of that answer that you can disagree with, or find opportunistic in any way, I’d love to hear. It was a very very sensible, moderate, reasonable answer, to an issue that does need to be dealt with.

So you’re not sounding the “dog whistle” to the party’s more traditional supporters?

No. no. If anybody is dog-whistling it’s Gordon Brown. Ludicrous. British jobs for British workers which he can’t do, it’s illegal under EU law. You know, lets deport people who are guilty of knife crime. He hasn’t done it, he can’t do it. If anybody is dog-whistling it is Gordon Brown.

But going back to his issue of substance and all that. A year ago people were saying where are the policies? Now they’re saying there are too many of them. Well, that’s a fair point and we will be showing very clearly this week that what stays and what goes.

It’s not that there are too many, it’s that there’s confusion. You did seem to endorse a lot of green taxes. George Osborne floated the idea of a frequent flyer tax and now today it seems like he’s going back on it.

No, not at all, we’ve said very clearly that the environment is an important issue, we need to take tough decisions, we believe that taxes have a role to play, we had a consultation. I do actually believe in grown up politics, that you have a consultation. We’ve put forward some different options, we’ve now looked at that and decided the right option, which is to not do VAT on domestic flights, not to have some sort of air-miles allowance and instead to tax the pollution that planes cause. That is very sensible approach. And every penny, this is vital, every penny, of any new green tax will go back to families in a family tax cut.

So the big choice is green stealth taxes from Gordon Brown, that go into the great vast, treasury of wasted money, or, targeted, sensible, green taxes from the conservatives that will be offset one for one by family tax cuts. To say that you know we’ve changed on this is ludicrous because we’ve very consistently said that we have to make tough choices, we’ve put forward options and we’ve now said which option we’re going to go for. Gordon Brown, super casinos - a review, cannabis - a review, drinking laws - a review, the entire NHS - a review. He hasn’t got any really long term policies, they’re all out for review. I hope he has an election, I’m ready for it – really up for it. But his policies are a complete mess.

Just going back on the immigration point. What did you mean when you said there are too many immigrants?

What I said was I thought that… this is very important because if you listen to that answer, what I said was that you have to use language very carefully when you’re talking about his issue, what I said was that over the last decade I thought that the overall level of immigration had been too high. It had put too much pressure, particularly on public services. And when you look at what a huge amount of illegal immigration there has been, I think it’s an extremely sensible, very moderate thing to say.

But what will you do about it? Some politicians have talked about an amnesty?

I think that’s a very misguided policy because it just shows complete weakness and would be a green light to other people wanting to come to the country illegally. What I’ve said is very clear measures. Firstly, new EU countries, we should have transitional controls, we said it, very consistent, about Poland, we said it about Romania, where the government did listen, and that shall be the case for future countries coming in. And on non-EU economic migrants, we’ve said there ought to be a points system.

We said this two years ago. And we’ve also said it needs to have a limit, the points system needs to have a limit to make sense of it, and that should be set to capture the benefit of immigration but also to reflect the pressures on public services. They’re very sensible, very, you know… and this was not in some, and I haven’t some great speech about immigration, I just answered a question accurately, fully and clearly on an interview which I believe in doing.

George Osborne talked about uber-modernisers, who else can he be referring to but yourself?

He certainly wasn’t referring to me. If you go back to the leadership election, or any time over the last two years, or August when we launched the min-manifesto on crime. Crime is not some right wing issue, crime is an issue which affects every single person in this country and the conservative party has always been, and will always be a party that is fundamentally tough on crime. Yes, I’ve also said we have to address all the causes of crime, the background to crime. And that’s why we’re the only party that’s saying, yes toughen the criminal law and build the prisons, yes, set the police free, get rid of the paperwork., make them properly locally accountable, but also strengthen families, strengthen school discipline, deal with the context and the background to crime. We’re are the only ones with the three dimensional approach and so I think that quote has been rather taken out of context.

Well, if you go back over my speech, there was no way you could ever, I am a moderniser, I am changing the conservative party. I’ve moved into the centre ground. All that time I have talked and acted about crime. Both in terms of terms of punishment and criminal justice and also in terms of the causes of crime. You just cant, the whole thesis doesn’t stand up. I’ve broadened the appeal of the party.

But some say you’ve not been looking after your own backyard, or rather, you’ve allowed Labour to claim as their own issues like immigration, law and order and crime?

Look at the polls, on immigration, we’ve got an enormous lead on immigration, we always have had. And also if you look at some of the things that I’ve talked about over the last two years. You know, the idea of a border police force, absolutely my proposal, being worked up by John Stevens. The idea of giving discipline to schools, giving head teachers control, worked up and being pioneered by me.

I just simply don’t accept that. I have, over he past two years put forward a very balanced message that the conservative party have to address the new issues of the environment, climate change, and the work-life balance, and we’ve made some real changes there. Changes that are difficult for some people to take. They’re important, but at the same time, who has led the charge on the referendum on the European Constitution? Me and William Hague. Who has been leading the charge on crime? Me and David Davis. I don’t accept that premise.

Do you feel what’s happened is that, like the border police, you come up with a good idea and then Labour steal it?

No, I think that what’s happening is that, what we’re seeing with Brown is he adopts a lot of very shopping list policies but there’s absolutely no follow through. You know, British jobs for British workers, announced three times, competitive sport in schools, announced six times. You know, border police, not announced at all he just talks about a border force, not a border police force. Why can I be so certain that he will not deliver these things? Answer, because he hasn’t delivered them in the last ten years. We don’t have to stare in some crystal ball about the future of a labour government. We know what it’s been like for the last ten years, they haven’t dealt with the problem of the health service, problems with education, rising crime rates, violent crime doubled.

Do you think personally that he’s a man of integrity?

I’m sure he believes what he says. I think that he’s a formidable politician, I’ve always said that, but I think that what’s been coming across had been very inauthentic.

Why do you think he’s managed to get people like Patrick Mercer and John Bercow to come over to help him out? And Quentin Davis, one of your former MPs, being cheered at the Labour party conference?

Well Quentin doesn’t agree with me on the importance of the environment, he doesn’t agree about Europe, he wants to hand over much more power to Brussels. There are some serious disagreements over policy. In the case of Mercer and Bercow, I think, that if people think that they can really make a contribution to the future of the country then obviously that is worthwhile.

I think we wouldn’t have the replacement to Trident if it hadn’t been my offer to Brown and Blair to back them over the nuclear deterrent. We wouldn’t have Brown’s schools’ bill if I hadn’t taken the Tory party through the lobbies to pass it through parliament. So where we can work together for the good of the country, yes.

So you don’t think it’s a shame that Bercow isn’t coming to the Tory conference? He is still a conservative isn’t he? As this week he’s joining Ed Balls on a government platform.

Every Conservative MP will make up their mind whether to come to the conference. A huge number of them will be, not all of them come anyway, that’s always been the case. It’s the voluntary party’s big event. And MPs decide to go or not go, it’s their own decision.

Do you think it’s time that you gave some praise to Margaret Thatcher?

I worked for Margaret Thatcher and think she achieved an enormous amount for our country and I’ve always said that.

Do you think that Gordon has been using her? Using her legacy?

No, I think it was wonderful seeing her outside number ten and waving, it was a wonderful picture. Look it’s Gordon’s issue. He spent most of his political life trying to destroy and undermine everything she was doing, and if he wants now to have a photograph with her, then that’s very much his business.

Is she invited to Blackpool?

Yes, of course.

You don’t know if she’s coming?

No, I don’t think that she is coming.

Do you still believe you are the natural ‘heir to Blair’?

I’m not anybody’s heir. What I was trying to say, was that what the conservative party has to do, and what we are doing under my leadership, is to look at the last ten years, look at the good things we want to keep and the bad things we want to get rid of. The point I’ve always made is that nobody wants the opposition to turn the clock back to 1997. All it wants to do is do a realistic assessment of what’s changed in the country what the inheritance is, if you like and what we change. And you are going to see that very clearly this week. You know, the minimum wage has been a success, that should stay. The bank of England independence is a success, it should stay, the regulatory structure for the bank of England, the FSA, perhaps that’s not such a great success and that needs to be seriously looked at.

But then there are lots of things we would change. A top down system for changing the health service. The inability to get to grips with standards in schools. The huge amount of red tape covering the police to stop them doing their work, the inability to consult people about the future of our country in Europe. There are so many things that we want to change, and what we’ll do at our conference as I say is not just explain what it is we want to do but how it is that we’re going t do it. And that is going to be such a contrast to labour.

So when you see headlines about, ‘Cameron will return to core values’ it’s not true?

I’ll unashamedly say that the Conservative party needed to modernise. And the Conservative party is now more in the centre ground, more mainstream. We have more woman candidates; we better represent the country that we’re trying to govern. We’ve addressed and lead on issues like the environment, like the work-life balance that need to be addressed in this country. And, but at the same time, we are the party that is clearly the party which is at the centre-right of British politics. We believe in responsibility, we believe in strong families, we believe in consulting people about their future in the European Constitution. So it’s a very balanced, very sensible but the key is that it address the key challenges that the country faces.

What did you think about Lord Tebbit’s point about being too modern?

I just think that the world has moved on. To me, what I’m doing is in the best traditions of the conservative party. The party has always taken its values and principles and thought, ‘how do we address these to the modern world?’ That is what modernisation is about. That is what Churchill did, when he said after the war, it’s time to have the freedom agenda of tearing up rationing and setting the people free, it’s what McMillan did when he said people want to own their own home, we need to build more houses. It’s what Margaret Thatcher did when she said, let’s give the trade unions back to their members, and let business manage itself properly. It was a thoroughly modern agenda.

What we need to do today is to address ourselves to the modern challenges of the public services, health and education, of the crime on our streets and the environment and apply conservative principles. That means giving people freedom and control over their lives, a timeless conservative principle, strong families and a responsible society, a timeless conservative principle, and a safer, cleaner country, again a timeless Conservative principle. It was the conservative party that passed the clean air acts, the countryside act. It was Disraeli who helped clear the slums. This is, I think, in the best traditions of the conservative party. Why is this party still around after more than 150 years? It’s because it has always modernised, it has always applied itself to the challenges of today. It’s not just the, turn-the-clock-back party.

What do you say to focus group research which says you are a “toff”, surrounded by “toffs”?

Well frankly, I’ve never been to a focus group. I don’t really know what they look like.

The point I would make is that, I start every day with a meeting with William Hague, a comprehensively educated Yorkshireman on one side, and David Davis, a comprehensively educated man from Tooting, now living in Yorkshire, on the other side. I don’t ask everybody where they went to school before I give them a job. I give people jobs because they’re good.

Lets look at my shadow cabinet reshuffle, if we have to, Michael Gove, one of the most talented politicians of his generation is the adopted son of an Aberdonian fishmonger. Sayeeda Warsi describes herself as a Yorkshire woman of the Muslim faith who’s a second generation immigrant. I don’t know where Pauline Neville-Jones went to school, I don’t care. But she was head of the Joint Intelligence Committee - headed up our entire intelligence operation in this country in the days before the dodgy dossier. She’s about the most talented person you could have in charge of security and counter terrorism in this country.

Your popularity amongst women voters looks like its on the wane?

I think that there is no doubt that the Conservative party have got a big challenge in front of it. Polls are very volatile, I don’t think that people have made up their mind. The opportunity for us is there if we can show people that we are serious about making changes, have identified what they are, we know how we can put them through, we know how we will improve your hospital, your school, get the police on the beat. Give you more power and control of your life, get you on the housing ladder by cutting stamp duty. If we can do these things, I think there’s an enormous appetite for real change because they know they wont get it from labour.

And you think that you can win the election?

Absolutely. I just feel at the moment, very confident that… it’s a huge challenge, we’ve got a massive task in front of us, but it’s wide open. Theses polls have been all over the place. And I don’t think people have made up their mind. They are disappointed, frankly, in all politicians. We have to show that we know exactly what we want to achieve and how we’re going to do it. And we need to appeal not just to a few people in a few marginal seats, 40% of people don’t vote, if we can convince them that we really know how to make a difference to the things that effects their lives, then we can win.

And calling for a EU referendum? What happens if there is a snap poll? Isn’t there a risk that you might get bogged down in the Europe issue?

No, I think I’ve led the campaign for an EU referendum, I think we’ve helped to give it the prominence that it rightly has. To me it is a basic issue of trust. The Prime Minister said that we will give you a referendum, he put it in his manifesto, he stood on that at election, he said the manifesto is sacred bond of trust and now he’s breaking that trust. It’s as simple as that.

How can we expect people to have any respect for politicians if we actually just tell such blatant untruths like that. So, to me it is a basic issue of trust, but it’s not the most important issue in this nest election, it’s not even in the top four but it is, it’s up there, it’s something that I care about and we will campaign on that. You know, the NHS, crime, schools, the economy, that is where elections are won and lost.

Have you had a good read of it? Is it the same document as before?

I’ve had very good read of it, I’ve studied it very closely, I’ve listened carefully to the different European leaders who say that respectively it is 98% the same, 95% the same, 93% the same. So, to argue that this is different document just doesn’t stack up.

But you won’t get bogged down in that?

No, I just think that it’s a very clear message, if you want a referendum, vote conservative and we’ll give you one.

Staying with foreign affairs. Would you bring our troops out of Iraq quicker than the Prime Minister?

No, I think that the speed at which we can withdraw troops must be determined by the extent to which we can build up the Iraqi army. I think William Hague set this out very clearly. There are a series of tests that we have to meet, and I think that one of the most important tests is security and stability. I think that the history of our involvement in Iraq has been that not nearly enough attention had been paid to security, order, stability, right at the beginning.

Have you read, Imperial life in the Emerald city? It’s a very interesting book about post-war Baghdad and, you know, the decisions were been made, just tragic. Leaving offices burning, and disbanding the army deba’athifying the country which meant teachers being sacked. You know, just, huge mistakes were made that left the country ungovernable.

Have you been doing a lot of reading over the summer?

Yes, I mean lots of different… I read a very good book about Churchill and the Jews, which was very interesting by Martin Gilbert which he’d given me. What else did I read?, … A very good book all about religion and politics, by Michael Burley, which was very interesting. This book about post-war Iraq I enjoyed. For a bit of light reading, Chesil Beach [by Ian McEwan], I enjoyed that recently.

What else did I read, I’m trying to think. A bit of the [Alastair] Campbell diaries but I got pretty fed up with his ego after a while I read all the stuff when they were in opposition, I thought that was useful. But then I decided that I couldn’t stand his ego any longer.

What about Iran, would you support a US attack?

I don’t think that the time for that is now. What William and I have set out very clearly is that we need to persuade other European countries that we need tougher sanctions. I think it’s this mixture of incentives and sanctions that are needed with Iran, that we need to show that we are serious about the issue of them not obtaining a nuclear weapon, whereas the Americans, at the moment, are using a lot of sanctions, naming particular banks that they wont deal with. We would like the Europeans to go much further in that direction but at the same time, I think that, actually, some engagement with Iran should also be part of that process but it should also be, if you like, incentives and sanctions and the Europeans have had too many incentives and not enough sanctions.

Where I do worry is Afghanistan, where I’ve been twice, two years in a row with a year in between it was very interesting to see the difference. I think what our troops are doing is fantastic. I mean, they are really waging an incredibly effective and brave campaign, but I think that there’s a great danger that we’re sort of winning the war, but losing the country. There’s a danger that we’re not doing enough to coordinate the aid effort. There are still seven different military commands in Afghanistan, that we’re not tackling corruption effectively enough. And I think that it should be the absolutely major task for British foreign policy to really focus on making sure we don’t make the same mistakes in Iraq, in Afghanistan that we made in Iraq.

I’m really committed to what we’re doing in Afghanistan. You know, 4,000 of our fellow countrymen trained in terrorist camps in Afghanistan, we must not let that happen again, nut there’s so much to do to get this right and I don’t see a sense of urgency on the behalf of the government in dealing with these issues.

Do you think that we will be there for many years to come?

Yes, I think that in terms of our commitment, we can’t let that country go back to Taliban control, and that means a long commitment. But we mustn’t think of it all in military terms. As I say, I think this is the concern that if we just think about this in military terms, we won’t get it right. We’ve suggested one person to coordinate the aid effort, because you’ve got EU, US and NATO and UN aid efforts, you need one person to coordinate that. Different military commands make it very difficult to win a counter insurgency right across a country. So, I just think that is number one foreign policy problem for the UK and I want to see the government give it its biggest amount of attention.

Returning to law and order in a bit more detail, there has been some indication that if elected you would be tough on police reform. Could you flesh that out a bit more?

What I mean is that I think people are fed up of just hearing from politicians ‘we’ll put more bobbies on the beat’, they want to know how we’re going to change the police to make sure that it actually happens. Because there’s a sort of crisis of responsibility in our police force. I spent a couple of days on the beat with a police sergeant in Wales. The regulation and the form filling that they have to do now is so soul destroying, it is just driving dedicated officers to despair. And we have to change that, so there’s a regulatory piece if you like, getting rid of the stop form and cutting down on the top-down targets, but I’d also like to see the elected police commissioners or elected mayors with whom the police are accountable. Because we don’t have proper accountability in this country. I’d like to sweep away a lot of the top down targets and also, as I’ve said many times, there are police officers that aren’t performing properly they need to be managed out of the force. It’s tough but it really needs to be done. You don’t crack crime unless you reform the police.

What about structural reform?

If you read Nick Herbert’s very good police paper its just far and away more substantial, more thought through, more comprehensive than anything that the government has done. The government’s attempt was big police force mergers, completely flying in the face of people’s demands for local policing. They’ve backed down but they’ve no plan. What is their plan for police? Nothing. Absolutely nothing to say.

Nick’s paper actually sets out in a really good way of looking at the enlargement of the Serious and Organised Crime Agency, SOCA, you know building that over time, so it deals with the top level crimes, and then having more accountable, local forces that can really respond to local demand.

Do you really believe we have a ‘broken society’, that there is ‘anarchy in the UK’?

Well, Gordon Brown seems to be saying that there’s nothing in our society that is broken and I just think when you’ve got 20 children shot on the streets of London in the last year, you’ve got Gary Newlove, bleeding to death on his own doorstep, you’ve got the teenager riding around on a bicycle shooting Rhys Jones.

I just think, there are real cracks in our society and we’ve got to address them. We’ve got to stop this idea that the answer to every crime is a summit and a crackdown and a package of measures which by the way never gets introduced. We’ve got to look at some tougher criminal justice and police as I’ve said, but also look at them with a background to crime.

If you don’t have proper school discipline, if you’re not addressing kids that are going wrong early in their schooling, these problems will go on, if you don’t strengthen families and try and reverse the tide of family breakdown, these problems will continue. There are, if you don’t deal with this issue of generational unemployment of a million young people not in employment, education and training, these problems will go on.

How does any government get down to the micro-level of that sort of policy to ensure it is working?

Government can’t, my philosophy is that government can not do it all, that’s what social responsibility about, you know, recognising that parents and business and others have a role is all about. But government can help lead the culture change, and that’s why I’ve said lets recognise marriage in the tax system. Let’s get rid of the couple penalty that in the benefits system we actually pay couples to live apart. What sort of mad approach is this? It actually benefits the parents of young child to live separately.

Is the extra £20 tax break for married couples more of a symbolic thing?

I would go further than symbolic. If you want to see a culture change in favour of parenting, in favour of couples, in favour of commitment, then recognising marriage in the tax system, getting rid of the penalties in the benefits system, that is something that the government can do that will help to change the culture. But obviously you need lots of other things to happen at the same time. But, what are we meant to do, just sit there and say, ‘well there’s nothing we can do about this’. Every other European country, virtually, recognises marriage in the tax system because marriage is a good institution, it helps people come together and stay together and I think we should recognise that.

Britishness. The Prime Minister seems to be mentioning it a lot lately. Didn’t that used to be a Tory rallying cry?

I don’t think he follows it through. Britishness isn’t just about values for tolerance, decency and respect. Those are values that are shared in many countries. Britishness is also about people and places and institutions, it’s about our democracy, not just any old democracy but our system of democracy. It’s all very well going on about Britishness, but then denying the British people a vote on the referendum on giving away their powers, where’s the Britishness in that?

Are you in favour of making immigrants sign up to English classes?

If you go back to my leadership election you’ll see that I spoke about that two years ago. If you go through those speeches, you’ll find, as I said to someone earlier, if we don’t have any policies, what’s the government been announcing for the last two years.

While we’re on classrooms. You must regret the whole grammar school row?

Look, let me rewind. I think that it is very very clear that, I said during the leadership election, I’ve said subsequently that our approach should not be about bringing back the 11 plus. This is something that conservative government never did in 18 years, wouldn’t do in the future and I really want our party to focus on the things that we could do to make a difference. Let new schools set up in the state sector to give people choice and diversity. Put rocket boosters on the academy program. Teach children by their ability in every school. Stop the closure of special schools. Make sure that we let head teachers exclude pupils that are wrecking the education of others. Those are the concrete steps that would really make a difference.

Obviously there are things that I wish that perhaps we had handled things in a different way. But that remains absolutely the position. We’re not returning to 11 plus. We have perhaps the most exciting, forward looking, changes to education that will improve standards.

If people want to set up a new grammar school, should they be allowed to?

We don’t want to see a return to the 11 plus and the whole point of it is…

Why, because it is elitist?

The whole point is that over 18 years, when it was perfectly possible for this to happen, it didn’t happen so this is just a debate that people aren’t really interested in having. Very interestingly there was one council in the 1980s that tried to set up a new grammar school and that was Solihull and the parents objected and it never happened. So I don’t want us to waste our time on something that’s not going to happen. I want to concentrate on things that can happen.

From my own point of view, I’ve got three children under the age of five, they’re going to state schools. I don’t want to wait around having a academic debate about a grammar school that’s not going to appear when I actually want to change education so there are good secondary schools that will really make a difference to my children’s lives.

So it was really a waste of time for the party to be talking about it, is that what you are saying?

I just think that it was very important that people look at the modern conservative party and say when it comes to economy they’re going to put stability first, ahead of tax reduction. It’s very important that we look at health, they say that we are the party for everyone in the NHS, and not for opt outs. And when it comes to education, we’re about expanding opportunity for everybody, and not just educating an elite of children. Full stop.

To sum up, what would you say the main point of difference between you and Labour is?

I think that the biggest difference is that we believe in giving people the freedom and control over their lives, and labour believe in top-down, straight control. Ask yourself why have we made so little progress with health and education and crime. It is because this is big government, top down, we know best, we will try and control everything from the centre. And the great author of this has been Gorgon Brown and as a result that is why we see the failure that is all around us.

It could be different, I think that the conservative message is incredibly optimistic and futuristic because we’re saying that if you give people more power and control over their lives. They will be stronger, society will be stronger, schools will be better run with head teachers in charge, the health service will improve if GPs hold the budgets and make the decisions with patients about how they can be treated. That is the modern conservative agenda. Its absolutely in tune with the times and, you know, I cant wait to put it in front of people.

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