Personally I think this country would be better off if the Army took over and got shut of all these cheating, lying, double dealing New Labour politicians who have spent the last 10 years dismantling our once great nation and selling it off piece by piece to foreigners and criminals. We already live in a two party dictatorship anyway, what difference does an army dictatorship make?

J Roberts, Manchester, UK

Was Lord Boyce speaking in his capacity as a Director of an American armaments company (Colt Defense)?

Edward, Bristol,

It is strange that despite repeatedly warning Britain that the government requires more powers to the detriment of people's liberty due to aa so-called 'war on terror', this government has consistently refused to give our armed forces anything more than a shoestring budget that failseven to provide troops with their boot laces.

The armed forces are bearing the brunt of politicians' incessant chest puffing antics. It has to stop.

Edwin Thornber, Bucharest,

Squaddies get nowhere without control of the air above them. They can call in an air strike too for support - but a sub might have difficulty getting to them.

Phil, Preston,

When politicians visit serving soldiers overseas they are met with a band of professional men and women with heart and integrity, who would never even dream of 'telling it how it is'.
As an ex-serving Royal Engineer do they (the politicians) really think soldiers are allowed to freely speak their minds when interviewed? Ofcourse not!
If a poll were carried out of all members of ALL armed services the current Government would still choose to bury their heads in the Iraqi sand. What's the point?

Sean, Sevenoaks,

Exactly as Neil say, Gordon Brown and Labour have ignored everyone therefore the Armed Forces are just being treated the same. When will people begin to say that after 10 years, it is actually the fault of Labour, and Gordon Brown, to hear time and time again that the Conservatives caused the problem, is insulting to the intelligence of every person in the UK. When will this sham of spin by Grodon Brown stop?

M W Smith, London, UK

Ignore what he says - look at what he does. We don't even have a full time Secretary of State. Gordon Brown should be utterly ashamed.

Liz, London,

Brown's decade long hate fest with all things military, as shown by the worst funding in living memory, is a shocking example of the fact that the miltary, as an instrument of government, have been deployed arbitrarily into war zones on the whim of a Political football and then left hung out to dry by the very government who put them there.The army is daily risking extreme danger on a two front war and the very least that they should expect is that the people who sent them there will provide the funding to support them. When all we hear from the MOD is that the army are getting everything they need the Media report from Colchester yesterday that Troops were having to buy their own boots makes one wonder who the MOD are talking about certainly not the men in the field.
.

philip, Ipswich,

It's time Gordon Brown committed to having an election. I for one have supported this party in the past, however this country is a democratic one and should be run by someone who the public has voted in.

Jeeves, London, England

The former defence chief s will remember Brown devoting, was it 65 words, to the armed forces in a one hour speech to the Labour Party conference. This when we are fighting wars in two countries was a deliberate snub or was he not aware of the import of his lack of words. After such an illustration of his lack of reguard for the forces it is difficult to claim an oversight when you fly out for a photo opportunity almost straight away, as a spoiler for the Conservative conference.
The Defence Secretary job sharing ,again while we fight two wars militarily stretched, can only be reguarded as either a message to our servicemen and women that he has little interest in their affairs or is political naivety of a suprising order.
Gordon Brown daily demonstates the Labour Party has anointed someone who only seems to sail well in fair weather,in fact he seems to set sail without consulting a weather forcast at all.

robert everitt, wolverhampton,

Des Browne says he has not heard any complaints!! does he not know that forces are expected to say the right thing by their superiors, They are not expected to say to Ministers and superiors anything detrimental ( I know from experience). Perhaps he should read the comments on the internet made by serving members, many who are looking to get out as soon as possible

Mike, Cyprus,

"Gordon Brown in Kampala: he believes that the attack by the former defence chiefs was co-ordinated with his trip out of the country"

Carefully selecting the most opportune moment to set the media agenda. Now where did their Lordships learn that trick?

Ned Ludd, huddersfiled,

Of course Brown is angered by the criticism - the truth hurts. We read regularly of sub-standard housing, inadequate compensation and life insurance, wounded soldiers not getting proper medical care, troops having to borrow boots, lack of body armour, shortage of helicopters and planes on fire because they do not have sprinklers fitted.

Brown has taken record levels of taxation from the people of Britain so he cannot plead lack of funding. One billion extra a year for the next 3 years - they have just put 28 times that into a failed bank! The money is needed now, not on the drip. This government's treatment of the armed forces shames us all.

David, Oxford,

So what's new? Few, if any, of our current generation of political leaders has any significant military experience - apart from newlab politicians who seem to like starting wars, as long as they can count onother countries to do some bleeding for them.

By the way, T Harrison, the 1960s radios are modern - the rifle that keeps jamming is a rebuild of a design first made in 1940, only we didn't get it then (when it would have helped) because the treasury though and automatic rifle would encourage soldiers to waste bullets.

KR, Stockport,

When a British soldier has to beg, borrow or steal from the American servicemen for basic equipment then it's plain as day that the Government have for years been underfunding the forces.
A billion a year for 3 years just doesnt cut it.

Phill , The Wirral, England

Who would you rather believe in regards to the morale of our armed services? Ex chief's of staff whom care passionately about people that they have trained, and ultimately sent into battle, or a 2nd rate new labour politican?

All one needs to do is think back to the awfull episode with Iran pinching our sailors in order to embarass us: that episode demonstrates the ability of this man. Limp, impotent and totally uninspiring.

I find it unbelievably offensive, as all my friends do, that this man is in charge of not only defense but also scotland. It is hugely hugely offensive and needs to be sorted.

Even that slippery customer Hoon was better than this mess.

Max, London,

Would he go for £2.5m?

ManchesterO, Manchester,

'Gordon Brown hit back today at a co-ordinated assault from former defence chiefs at his treatment of the Armed Forces.'

Speaking from his latest bolthole where he cannot be contradicted.

mnairb, Hove, East Sussex

Just this week it was revealed that we spend £12billion a year on slackers and tired people by giving them incapacity benefit, we are about to spend £20billion on the olympics. Yet Gordon is trying to boast that he is going to spend an extra £1billion a year on the armed forces? Am I the only person that thinks there is something wrong here? Forget the olympics, dont give the slackers any more money, equip the troops, pay the Ghurkas and sort out our useless transport system and police force.

dave, london,

"Meanwhile, the 'top brass' choose to spend the tax-payers money on showy warships, fighter aircraft and tanks more suited to refighting the second world war than dealing with 21st century problems."

[T Harrison, London]

I suspect that these big purchase decisions are more down to NuLabour protecting jobs in certain constituencies than because the top brass really think they need them...

Paul, London,

The forces have always been underfunded. They were underfunded in 1969 when I was proud to serve in the army. Trouble being, like the Health Service they can swallow up vaste sums of money and still claim to be underfunded. Both services doing a great job but always saying they are underfunded. Most senior managers have no idea how much money they get or where the money is spent. Money simply disapears into a black hole. Everyting that goes on in this country is not the fault of Gordon Brown. The officers know that the route of their complaints is via the Ministry of Defence, and the office of the Chancellor. Officers have no write to go public!

Ray B, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Does it not say something about the number of loyal supporters the Prime Minister has amongst MP's of his own party that he has to double on important Ministerial posts?

William, Birmingham, UK

I hope these generals were also speaking up BEFORE their pensions and gongs were secure......if not, why not?

al, weybridge, uk

So we have the solemn word of 5 upstanding brave and wise old military men versus one unelected, desperately hanging on to power, spinmaster of a PM. Who should I believe?

Ron, Bedford, U.K.

It was an excellent argument for the House of Lords: people whose knowledge of the subject is as profound as the sincerity of their concern. My boy has done two tours in Afghan with 42 Commando. I bought his 'Gucci' desert gear, on the first tour the armour was due to catch up with the vehicle in theatre and on the second he was involved in a contact that went on for hours simply because there were not enough apaches/planes to cover all of the actions taking place. Now he's thinkinf of volunteering for Iraq, because he needs the extra wages to meet the mortgage. D Croft

David Croft, tetbury, gloucestershire UK

I am delighted to see our senior military come out fighting for the Armed Services, albeit they have had to wait until they were retired to do so. As the father of a fourth generation soldier in the Army who has become totally disgusted with the offhand attitude of so many senior establishment figuires to the plight of overstretched and undervalued servicemen and women, I just hope that these miltary peers will keep up the attack on a discredited and feeble political leadership. It was great to see The Royal Anglian Regiment march in Norwich yesterday and receive the appreciation of ordinary people.

John Pitt, Norwich,

Every Government makes monumental and stupid decisions over defence and if ever they admitted the truth it is always to save money...what a waste of thousands of well trained seamen of the RNXS and similar units who gave years of valuble free time training and perfecting the coastal protection and control of harbours, many times leaving the depleting regular Royal Navy with red faces during combined exercises....When will the Government learn to appreciate fully the value of the Reserve Forces other than in times of desperation....Wake up England the country needs a Government....

Sears, Bournemouth, Dorset

T Harrisons comments are gormless...You only have to look around you to see some countries re-arming and increasing their firepower..Iran..China..North Korea...You need a fully manned , fully armed services across the board. This means aircraft carriers / aircraft / ships of the line and all the upto date hardware for our soldiers. You never know whats around the corner.

kirk, Rotherham, UK

The military problems are not new.

Perhaps if one or 2 of their Lordships, that have critised Brown, would have fallen on their swords, then we would not be in a critcal state now.

Careers must though.

Les Simpson, Shifnal,

The majority of the people of this country have nothing but praise and admiration for our troops out on the front line and would do anything to help them. Unfortunately Brown holds the purse strings because I suspect that "Darling "Alister is just a puppet dancing to Brown's Tune. This prime minister is a joke he comes out with such STUPID satements How can he say more money is going into Defence when we are spending less now than we were Ten Years ago.Together with his statement to the House of Commons on Wednesday that there was no breakdown of the System over the loss of peoples personal information makes a laughing stock, he and his cronies are treating us with contempt and will never learn to listen. Every section of Government is letting us down we should have an election now to get rid of these COWBOYS they are nothing but Legalised Robbers.

AMAC, St.Helens, England

These politicians keep continually try to measure proper administration by money provided, no matter how badly wasted or inappropriately timed it is. One has only to look at the NHS, Schools, Revenue and Customs, the Fire and Rescue Service, ...

That the Nimrods are so old, so over stretched and improperly equipped; that troops have to march for 6 hours to reach their objective because there are no helicopters available; that so many men have to die because of lightly armoured vehicles without the appropriate electronic defences; that troops have to die because there is no body armour - these are but some examples of where the government has failed to provide the required resources at the required time.

To paraphrase George Bernard Shaw (The Devil's Disciple), the English soldier can overcome almost any obstacle other than the British Government!

Charles, Oxford, England

No doubt you will have read about the way a female abused war-wounded servicemen in the public swimming pool near Headley Court. I will not comment on the likelihood that she is :a) a Labour voter and b) a product of a comprehensive school, but is it not a national disgrace that our limbless service personnel do not have their own pool with specialised equipment? Even our local hotel can provide that for its customers. Thankyou Labour and thankyou Scotland. Why don't you extradite Brown and Browne; we don't want them.

John Bell, Nottingham,

You can't have it both ways. If you want to take the lead and commit forces around the world you have to provide the support to them and their families. The loyalty of the Armed Forces has been abused. It is not in their instinct or training to go on strike or create political waves. Senior officers are constrained as to how public they can make their case or they are moved aside as was Admiral Boyce and thus they have to rely on ex-Chiefs to stake out their case. This is about looking after your people.

Masters at getting by with little resources year after year, the sand is rapidly running out of the hour-glass. Experienced soldiers and families have had enough. Yes they joined for a life of adventure but not on minimum pay, continual family disuption, limited training and poor housing. Undervalued and underinvested in because defence wins no votes. They have not let you down but yes Gordon Brown - you do treat them with contempt.

James, Newcastle, UK

Nice to see a "co-ordinated assault " from the former defense chiefs. Just goes to show the training really does work. Wouldn't expect anything less.

Paul Atkinson, Whitby, England

i agree with the defence chiefs gordon brown as chancellor and now as pm has almosty destroyed are armed forces fighting ability and when he now talks tough about iran how does he think the army could actually take on more commitments but the former and present defence chiefs must also shoulder blame for lacking the courage shown by our troops to stand up to this wretched government when serving as defence chiefs as should the present chiefs i recently read gen.jscksons autobiography and he was very critical of the mod and thier lack of concern for the welfare of the armed forces but he said nothing whilst still a serving soldier if the present defence chiefs are really concerned they should all resign enmasse and force a real confrontation wlth the bean counters of the mod j holland barton n.lincolnshire

john ernest holland, barton upon humber, north lincolnshire

When Gordon Brown said that he had nothing but praise for our armed forces he was at least being honest - he has nothing for them. Ask any service personnel, especially those in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the Christmas Wish List some are asking for (and buying at their expense) equipment that works and even the USA body armour (lighter & better than UK issue)

B Lelliott, Worthing,

2 soldiers were killed in Iraq 3 days ago. 2 more are seriously injured. They were flying in a helicopter that was older than any of the men in it. The last conservative government approved the purchase of new Chinook helicopters for Special Forces. They haven't appeared because pressure on the MOD budget by the incoming Labour chancellor caused the cancelation of the order.
When a soldier makes a misjudgement while in action it can lead to drastic consequences, possible death. Unfortunately the consequences of such failures while in high office don't.
The contempt this unelected PM has for the public (european referendum), the armed forces (cutbacks and crocodile tears) and parliament (lack of bottle for an election), is an indication of how easy it was to do a deal with his former tormentor Blair to gain his present status. To appoint another of his "yes Gordon" men to jobshare the Scotiish and Defence ministries is a slap in the face to the bereaved servicemens families.
SHAME!

John , Durham,

As the saying goes " the truth hurts " and its hurting brown through his incompetence.

john, DUNFERMLINE, scotland " free of labour "

For some years now the UK Government has deliberately and stealthily sought to create umbilical ties with the EU. Simply recall the number of occasions when our national signature has been applied to this treaty or that in Brussels or Strasbourg, against a background of UK public opposition. Slowly but surely, piece by piece, the dismantling of the national institutions has ground forward. Now it is the turn of HM Armed Services, for if they are reduced to not being able to meet even the most modest of commitments it will make far more sense for the UK to seek force augmentation through alliance. This is precisely what the EU Defence force concept is all about. One (hopefully unnoticed) step after another the defence of the UK national interest will be transferred to the responsibility of the soon to be installed President of Europe, the EU Foreign Minister and the EU Defence Minister.
A referendum on Europe in the UK? Fat chance.
Bye Bye Britain, Bye Bye.

Albert Ross, Raleigh, North Carolina, USA

The government care so much about the Armed forces that there are hundreds of ex-servicemen who have not been paid their pensions for 18 months because of a computer fault and privatisation

glyn rees, oxford, england

Typical politician Des Browne listen carefully to what he says "I have been in operation theatre than any other Secretary of State". Of course you have we are fighting in more places than we ever have before!!!. Noticable of course that the interview was given to.. Yes Good Morning SCOTLAND!!! Need I say more

Pete Young, London, UK

The first duty of any government is the defence of the realm; as Mr . Browne divides his time between this and his scottish responsibilities clearly both he and the Prime Minister regard this as only meriting half of his attention.This is contemptuous of of every serviceman.They give their all,their Minister gives his half.Just who do they think they are kidding?

John Bennett , Exeter,Devon, UK

If there is any truth in the rumour that 5 new UK 'super garrisons' are being planned, those garrisons will surely require appropriate military medical facilities ?

We could request that the 100 or so members of government with no military experience spend a proportion of their time working shifts in these medical facilities caring for the men and women of our Armed Forces injured during service due to absent or unfit-for-purpose kit. Maybe the change of heart required of these politicians would occur after they had experienced the physical and emotional trauma of real rather than rhetorical service. Don't all rush at once!
Colin R Purcell-Lee.

Colin R Purcell-Lee, Lincoln, UK,

Correct Mr Harrison,
If you look at the way the military spends money it is actually a very good metaphor for the way in which the English government allocates money as a whole.

Douglas Maxwell, Richmond, North Yorkshire

Not surprised that Gordon avoided attending meetings. He always goes into hiding until an issue is settled then appears later attempting to take the credit. Looks like more people are catching on.

Steve, London, UK

It looks to me that Great Britain has outsourced much of their defense to arguably to their most faithful colony, at least since 1812, the USA.

Mr. Brown ought to take a look around and see the scary world as it is. Russia and China are flexing their muscles and Russia for one is not real happy with Great Britain.

Paul Bahre, Granby, CT, USA

Until recently the government was blaming the Tories for the under-investment in soldiers (and their families) accommodation, and now seeks to blame them for the current under-resourcing, despite having been in power for 10 years. There may well be more money in the pot, but Brown decides how it is spent and not enough is spent on the troops. If the government wants the armed forces to carry out a role, then it has to fund it noy go bleating to the people, as they currently are, when criticised by others who have more than the passing interest that Brown and Browne have.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

Nothing but praise.
How very true

No body armour, no bullets, no working guns, no working tanks, no armoured vehicles, no air support, no new ship.

But praise, well...

Dominic, Manchester, UK

The Government determines its desired military capability and response times. The MoD determines what resources are required to carry out that capability both in terms of equipment, personnel and levels of training. The Defence Budget is to enable that capability in a peacetime environment. As soon as a Government deploys some or all of that resource the funding has to be met from contingency funds. Though the Government has used contingency funds, it has nowhere near met the associated costs involved in deploying troops, aircraft and ships to two Operational theatres.

Richard Thornely, Andover,

Fact: the biggest cuts were during the Tory years.

Rob, Brum, UK

Next time the UK government decide to help the Americans in a war not supported by the majority of UK voters, perhaps they should set up a charity to pay for it?
The generals could rattle tins on street corners, the military bands could put on LIVE WAR concerts, and then it would be paid for by those who thought it a good idea.

P Whitehead, Walsall, UK

Baroness Taylor needs to try to defend a position with her life using weapons in which the ammunition fails because the MoD bought the cheapest possible on the market to save a few pounds. Her words are empty, meaningless and downright insulting to those who have actually been in that position.

Steve Ipswich, London,

Who would you believe a mibnister who wasnt here yesterday and is gone tiommorow mouthing his parties slogans, or a proffesional who spebnt his life studying his passion his branch of the services.
When The Baroness says those things she only looks stupid. How cvan you say that you have expanded when you had 52 ships in your fleet and now eight have replaced them. That my dear is not only a contraction but a disappearance of power.
If you see this sort of nonsense reaasoning being put out can you imagine the rubbish these military men are being forced to put up with when men are dieing.

John Donaldson, Farnborough, Hampshire

Gordon has betrayed our men and women.

He has the opportunity to right a wrong, question is will he?

Personally i'm very disappointed in him.

Rebecca, London,

Whilst I fully agree with T Harrison, London I have to say that there may be more than a little "Empire Building" motivating the Generals' and Admirals' citriticisms.

The armed forces now have a diferent role to play - the cold war is over - of course the Admirals want ships and the generals want tanks but they have a limited role in peace keeping and counter-insurgency.

One of the difficulties is the lead time in major defence project procurement . By the time the military have discussed what they need and the politicians have debated, delayed and authorised and the design, development, building, testing, training and deployment is completed the whole thing is years out of date - obsolete - Eurofighter is just one recent example.

Britain no longer has an Empire and Generals, Admirals, peers of the realm and goverment ministers have to recognise and accept the reduced ability and responsibility of British forces on the world stage.

Squaddies must come before empire building

R Bingham, Lauzun, France

Gordon brown has treated the whole country with contempt. Why should the Armed Forces be treated any differently to the rest of us?

Neil, Gloucestershire, England

Politicians would rather spend money on nuclear phalli that can never be used, are not independent and, rather than deter, encourage others to acquire the same. Meanwhile, the 'top brass' choose to spend the tax-payers money on showy warships, fighter aircraft and tanks more suited to refighting the second world war than dealing with 21st century problems. The poor squaddie is sent into battle buying his own boots, with a rifle that jams and 1960s radio communication, to return injured to inadequate medical care.

T Harrison, London,