My sons go the The Trinity RC School in Nottingham I have full praise for this school. I have asked teachers from Trinity and other schools what is the difference, between working in a christian school and a non christian school.On example I was informed during mass in the sports hall full attendance the lights were dimmed for a period there was total silence, in another school there would have been mayhem. You only need to look at the Trinity web page to see what the school is acheiving at this is by joint work, through teachers, staff,students and parents.

Love and Respect is the teaching of faith, there should be the continuation of expansion of faith schools.

Carolyn, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire

Yes, Alan Crowe, and when the whole country has "just good schools" as you say Shetland has, the demand for faith schools will go away of itself.

Pending that Millennial day - still further off than anything in the Book of Revelation - people who care about their kids' education will get decent schooling any way they can, and jump through whatever hoops their circumstances may require.

I don't suppose my parents would have worried about my eleven-plus results if passing it hadn't been necessary to get me into the right kind of school. Nor would parents pay fees for private schooling if they could get a comparable education free. And neither would the current generation bother going to Church if there were decent schools which Johnny and Jenny could get into without it. That's just the latest hoop that needs to be jumped through, and not obviously any worse than the old eleven-plus hoop or the traditional financial one. .

Mike Stone, Peterborough, UK

I don't see what religion has to do with education. If the child wants to do well, and has encouragement from parents, then it will do well. Many people I know managed it. Just because a child goes to a faith school, does not mean automatic intelligence or ability to do well in life.

Louise, London,

How can the conservative party think that religion,or worse still pretend religion is a fair way to decide the quality of one's children's education, yet still think that delegation of schools on the basis of an aptitude test is unfair.

Martin McDonnell, Southampton, UK

I think Cameron's comments show that he is a pragmatist and not an idealist. I think personally that is a strength and not a weakness when it comes to running a country.

Alex, Southampton,

Ateist does not meaqn anti-religious. An atheist is a person whodoesn't believe in God. not the same thing at all.

Jamie, Scarborough, UK

Beg pardon, Edro, but how can any politician say it's _not_ ok to lie when you will get something out of it? What does every election manifesto (Labour, Tory or other) do but exactly that?

All Cameron has done is acknowledge that it's ok for other people beside politicians to do this.

Mike Stone, Peterborough, UK

Paul J
[Ah, the joy of living in a country that doesn't have faith schools (Iceland). ]No faith schools here either Paul, just good schools.
(Shetland.)

Alan Crowe, Bixter, Shetland

A truly religious person would be less likely to take something from another by deception, such as in this case faking religious belief for a place at school, because, let's face it, it is actually wrong, selfish, dishonest, self centered, though understandable. Perhaps it is this difference in ethos and moral atitude that makes these schools sometimes better in the first place. Perhaps we could all do with lessons in living a life where we are less selfish, self centered and dishonest - though some might call that indoctrination.

i.e., Norwich, The ancient kingdom of East Anglia

The message for politicians (who are supposed to be public servants) is that we - taxpayers - want Church schools for our children because they offer a better ethos and education.

There would be no need for people to exaggerate their links with the local church if the state met our needs. Instead it spends billions on failing schools, failing teachers and failing teacher training colleges designed to level down every child who has the misfortune to pass through their hands.

David Cohen, Westminster,

It cannot be right that families are forced to pray to someone's god just to get their kids into the local school.
Who says Cameron is honest??? He is a professional liar (PR is lying for money).
Like to have a little wager that his daughter will get in? Mine probably wouldn't but she is not the daughter of a sleb.

Champion the wonder horse, Dudley, Ebgland

I attended Catholic schools throughout my education and indeed, am a practising Catholic. But, I wish to give a view based on the facts.

In order to have someone baptised in the Catholic faith, they need two sponsors (Godparents) who regularly attend mass. So a lie is intimated directly to the Priest if this cannot be achieved and some pseudo sponsors attend the baptism instead (I have seen this happen).

Then there is the question of religious education. No doubt, the children will be taught the doctrine of the Church from Monday to Friday, but who will continue that by taking them to mass each and every Sunday, Christmas Day, holy days of obligation outside term-time and three services over Easter. The parents? Come off it.

Although Mr Cameron is cleverly highlighting the plight of some parents, he is doing so by capitalising on the reluctance of the Catholic Church to defend itself. As a potential future leader of this country, he should be utterly ashamed of himself.

John, Sutton Coldfield, UK

Pretending is another word for lying - so if David Cameron is content for parents to lie about their political faith to gain entry for their children into a 'good'' school, what else is he happy for people to pretend/lie about? Income tax returns?, Benefit claims? Immigration applications? Political Party donations? I think we ought to know.

Robert Parker, Lincoln, UK

Both faith and non faith schools are required by law to teach your children the basic manners you failed to instill in them.
Religion has moved away from "Thou Shalt not" to what is expected of me as human being and how to build a good , respectful relationship with the other person, irrespective of his/her religious affliations.

DUPE, london, herts

I've known parents who decided to take up religion again to help their children's formation. They found the benefit of Faith they had forgotten- a benefit they passed on.

Father Bryan Storey, Tintagel, UK

So, tell us Dave, what else it is OK to lie about?

Carl, London, UK

It's obvious from the rush of people hoping to get their kids into faith schools that such schools obviously offer something the secular world does not. I agree with the principle of good education for all and JonB is right in saying education should not be restricted by the religious beliefs of the parents. That said, one has to acknowledge the possibility that faith schools produce such results because of the moral and social backbone on which they are based. I'm not suggesting that faith is the only way to provide a good education, but any attempt to chip away at the faith element may restrict such schools' abilities to produce the goods. Thus it is submitted that whilst faith schools are living and letting others live, there are strong arguments to let them get on with what they're doing so successfully.

AH, Leicester, UK

The point that so many people seem to miss is that if other schools were just as good then there wouldn't be a problem. As a parent who has fought tooth and nail to get their child into a faith school, I had no choice, my local school has a pass rate of just 27% compared with 80% at the catholic school. Yes I could have sent my children there and they could have helped boost the pass rates but at the same time they could have come under peer pressure and 'gone off the rails'.

As some one who went to a failing secondary modern school, where we were all expected to go on to a YTS course, and we didnt know university existed, I want more for my children.
Don't all parents want the best for their children?

I don't have the money to pay for a private education or money to move into the catchment area. So this was the only option for people like me.

Scott, hastings, uk

Nice to see the pro-Dave camp squirming a bit. So Dave's in favour of a bit of lying and deception. Good to see that traditional tory values are still alive.

Ken Whysall, Hemel Hempstead,

Sorry but you really have missed the point here. As a parent trying to get my daughter into a decent school, I to am attending church once a month to cosy up to the vicar. The real point of your story should not be a rebuke to the conservative party on your front page, but to question why we are in this position in the first place!! The non-religious alternatives for my daughter have ofsted reports that suggest they should be closed down.

Labour have long suggested that what people want in education (and for that matter health) is choice. This is utter rubbish. All I want, as a taxpayer, is a decent school in my locality. I don't want to have to shop around for quality and pretend I am a religious convert to get an education that should be available for all.

Please - report the news objectively.

Simon B, Surrey, UK

Why wouldn't he back "parents who pretend that they have Christian beliefs in order to win places in church schools" when he pretends to have all kinds of beliefs in order to win votes?

Eoin Connolly, London, UK

If you are left-wing atheist trendy you'll believe in multi-ethnic schools with a wide diversity of family structures, where all lifestyle choices are regarded as equally valid, whether made by parents or teachers. However unless unusally stupid you won't actually want that type of school for your own children.

Which is where the whole ethic becomes unstuck.

Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK

Those parents should feel ashamed because of their hypocrisy... but the principals of those church schools should be fired immediately for discriminating against people based on their religion.

It's appalling that parents need to lie about their religion to get their children into good schools, and if that is the way that the Catholic Church runs them, religious people of all other denominations should demand that those schools are closed.

A religious test for admittance to publicly funded schools? Is the UK turning into Saudi Arabia??

I think I'm sticking to Iceland for the moment...

Paul J., Reykjavik, Iceland

Well said Mr. Cameron!

And of course he's being castigated for telling the truth.

Erm ... ... atheists are anti-religious! That's what the term means. And if you've never met an atheist that wasn't a bigot then I guess your experience is very narrow Scott.

The history of the CofE at least abounds with indifference. Who in their right mind would want their children exposed to religious clap trap? Answer - any parent who wants an education for the child. And that means avoiding the State system like the plague.

richard, bangkok,

We should copy Northern Ireland and get the benefit of a society divided by religion. We must support Muslims going to Islamic schools and learning exclusively their own cultural traditions.

Andy Dyer, London, UK,

Mr.Cameron's views neatly encapsulates what I always thought made a true Tory but hoped had gone away, i.e. a middle class person who would stoop to most anything to protect his own and then moan about the disintegration of society caused by others. Plus ca change........

colin wilkes, st.maurice, france

Politicians who condone deception for personal or family advantage (especially when, as in this case, it's at the expense of other people) forfeit all right to public trust. Will David Cameron now tell us in what circumstances he lies for advantage and when we can expect him to be honest? Even, if he does, who will believe him?

kath bell, Nottingham, England

Surely the argument is against parents teaching their children it's OK to lie, so long as they get something out of it.

Edro, Aberdeen,

Non-believing parents pretend to be something they're not to get their kids into faith schools
Non-believing MPs want to close the faith schools down for outperforming secular schools according to the benchmarks set by those same MPs.
So on the non-believing side we have dissimulation and rank injustice.
And on the believing side we have - gosh golly - a really good education.

ioannes, Rome,

So: that's the official Conservative line: you can break any number of the 10 Commandments, bear false witness (at least about your religious faith), and it'll be fine (once you admit to at Confession?), because it's in the best interests of your kids.

Sounds like a vote-winner.

redpesto, Fulchester,

We would not have this problem if the government bucked up their ideas, and learnt a little something from these successful schools.
The strength of community found in church schools and the rewarding of acheivement should be admired and emulated.
I have experienced both types of education, and my village c of e primary was the better- in terms of pastoral care and results. It was non selective, and that included religion.
I think though, that parents also need to be responsible- to make your child believe in something you don't is about as low as it gets. It may be a means to an end, but it's immoral.

wiltshire wurzel, swindon,

Why on earth are publicly funded schools allowed to discriminate on the grounds of religion? Remarkable!

Adam, Edinburgh, UK

Isn't the real worry here that the children attending these schools may come to know their risen Christ?

eve hunter-scott, edinburgh, scotland

The reality of the situation is that faith schools out perform other state schools. Even Private schools tend to have a high christian ethos. Its this strong ethos of care and devotion that comes from religious belief. I know Church of England Schools where 85% of their students are muslims. You ask the parents of these children and they all want it to stay a C of E school!!!!!!! Recently my school did a parent questionnaire and 98% of them agreed that christain ethos was good for their children. Our C of E school exists to serve all members of our area we do so with dedication and love and no bias. Its not the parents fault for trying to do the best for their kids or the schools fault for being good at what they do. Its the other schools who need to raise their game and find out from faith schools what it is they are doing so well.

David, Reading, England

the real hypocrisy is "good" christians suggesting that only believers deserve a good education.

the fact is that parents are still having to make a compromise - in order to get their children well educated in a variety of subjects, as well as in a moral and disciplined environment, they have to expose their children to religious nutters.

religion should have no place in schools except as part of religious education. morals and discipline should. but our social worker lib-lab meddlers have made sure that can't happen.

don't blame parents for working the system if the system is so ridiculous and unfair.

jem, london, uk

My children attended a private Catholic primary school. They were accepted, although I am an Anglican, because my husband is a church-tax-paying Catholic. The fact that they are not baptised did not bother the school, because we explained that it was not ethical for us in a "mixed marriage" to inflict our choice of religion on kids too young to decide for themselves. I said they could decide and get baptised when they are 18. The fact that I am an atheist Anglican (yes I am, there is such a thing) did not seem worthy of note, because I try to bring up my children to live by Christian ethics, even if I choose to ignore the magic spells and the men in frocks.
Incidentally, it didn't do any good as far as the church is concerned. They are growing up to be just as sceptical as I am.

Minerva, Germany,

Given, whatever his motives and those of the parents, that baptism is not just an entry into a club, but a sacrament whose effect is the remission of all sin, original and actual; likewise of all punishment which is due for sin, I am pleased to see Mr Cameron promoting it. Catholics also recognise Anglican baptism as valid but that won't get you a place in a Catholic school so easily.

Christopher Gillibrand, Brussels in exile, Belgium/ Uncertain state

Quite right too, education shouldn't be restricted by the religious beliefs of the parents.

JonB, glasgow, UK

All faith schools should be banned - not for the inequalities, but for the lies they teach to our children.

Camilla, Burnley,

Right. So does Mr Cameron really believe anything he says or is he just saying things as a means to an end, i.e. becoming PM.

FR, Basingstoke,

People do the same thing to get married in a church because they're "romantic" or "quaint". Not really that remarkable.

Neil Atkinson, Tunbridge Wells,

What are you going to do? Parents are busting a gut to get money to send their kids to public schools or to move to catchment areas or feign faith just to get their kid into a decent school. This is a reflection of the poor performance of state education and the commitment parents make to do the best for their children.

DK, Nottingham,

Surely the scandal about non-Christian parents sending their children to faith schools is not that parents are willing to lie to get a good education fo their children, but that sending children to faith schools is made necessary by the fact that state schools are of such low quality. Hypocritical? I don't think so. These parents just believe in good education.

E. Smalley, Frankfurt, Germany

Apart from the fact that ALL religions are supersitious mythical nonsense, that does not alter the fact that many of their moral principles(i.e. as opposed to the religious dogma and rituals) are valuable, and one has to wonder if Cameron has any principles at all.

(And "Scott of Toronto", while I am "anti-religious" and an agnostic tending towards atheism, I don't think I am bigotted in the least).

Gerry Watts, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

Aside from the secondary debate concerning thte mixing of education and religion that has intruded into this correspondence, tje fact remains that people have 'got religion' for school places for their children. This is hypocrisy and Mr. Cameron is supporting hypocrisy. this may not make him a hypocrite himself, but it is does point to his ethics being based at least partially on convenience rather than defensible principles.

Lawrence , New Delhi, India

What sort of impression does this set to the children I wonder. Bring them up to be cheatsperhaps?

You should be ashamed of yourself Mr Cameron, and this is not a worthy comment for a Tory, or any other political leader.

Roger Metcalfe, Bristol,

Parents will go to any length to give their children a good education, when, whether rightly or wrongly, they feel they must use deceit to gain this, is not so much a reflection on the parents but a sad reflection on the extreme variance in quality of schools within our state education system. Churches, mosques, synagogs etc are for teaching religion, schools are for education and all state schools should be faith-free zones including the wearing of religious items.

Les, Southport, England (a country, not a state!)

Ethics when you are a parent are not black and white. The choice of a good education or poor one when your child's future is in the balance is not an easy choice and Cameron is an honest man for understanding the dilema of a class who cannot afford the private education of the upperclass and do not wish the standard education end environment found in most schools in the UK. Having attended both a Catholic Primary and Grammar / secondary school I can say that for those years of thechilds life they and the parents will become Catholic because the school becomes the foundation of the child's education spiritually and intellectually. The Schools knows this as well.

Peter, British, Hong Kong

The local Church of England school that my son attends works for the very reason that parents who are prepared to do what it takes to get there children to that school are much more likely to be committed to the child’s education.

The school, whilst supporting Christian morals, provides a broad education with no particular Christian bias and religious education sympathetically dealing with all religions is mandatory (they are also currently running a GCSE Buddhism course)

The basic fact is that schools where the parents are prepared to either pay substantial fees and schools where parents have to prove a commitment work where others fail. Any parent, regardless of wealth, who is prepared to put in the time can get there child in to a good school and I commend them for it.

Bruce, Oldham, Lancs

Whatever one's views on religion, teaching children that dissimulation and hypocrisy constitute acceptable behaviour is doing the WORST for them.

Encouraging others to teach this to their children is nothing short of shameful, and even in jest is unacceptable from anyone involved in public life - in whatever capacity, at whatever level. One suspects that if any cabinet minister had suggested that parents teach their children to lie in order to get what they want, Mr Cameron would this morning be screaming for their resignation.

Ian Kemmish, Biggleswade, UK

Oh dear! And these words have come from the lips of a man who many want to run our country! Seems he will say and do anything just to get into power. Think about it!

Neville Cordingley, Hoddlesden, Darwen, UK

So David Cameron backs 'faking it' and pretending to have beliefs you don't hold if it might get you the right result.

How out of character!

Sunder Katwala, London,

Church schools are so successful, the examination results are good, the children are happy (and the teachers) so much so that parents are trying any way they can to get in.
So what do some people say should happen?
Stop the church schools!
Allan Clare, Bristol, UK.

Allan Clare, Bristol, Avon

Bob, Cameron hasn't forfeited his chance to lead the country. On the contrary, he's articulated support for parents who are devotion to their child's education.

I was a governor at a CofE school and have no problem with parents who comply with the guidelines getting a place at that or any school. Our rules of admission never said the family had to believe, rather that the family had to attend church regularly and have their child baptised. We set the rules, so we can't complain if people abide by them.

Any family demonstrating that level of commitment is probably going to be an equally committed member of the school community. I say welcome.

Absolutely nothing criminal about it. Abide by the rules: get into the school.

Nancy , London,

Thank you David Cameron for injecting some common sense into this issue.

If parents believe that attendance at a "faith" school is the best option for their child, why on earth (or in Heaven) should they not jump through whatever hoops are required to get them in? How is it anyone's business except their own and the schools'. It is an option anyone is free to take, and if some atheists etc are too proud or too stiff-necked to do it, that is their problem alone, and no business of anyone else.

Nor is there any obvious reason why the school, or the Church that runs it, should object. After all, from their viewpoint, children who don't get much religious instruction at home arguably need the faith school's ethos more than those who do.

If any group objects, let them do a bit of research to find what makews the faith school popular, and then set up academies which provide it without the accompanying religion - if this can be done.

Mike Stone, Peterborough, UK

Cameron and Brown are becoming the Twiddledum and Twiddledee of European politics. Cameron's support of parents who have a Damascus experience on their way to school beggars belief. This is the old religious test of 16th & 17th century England in all but name and reminds me of the Greeks in Turkey who adopted the Muslim religion to save their lives and livelihoods. Would it not be more sensible and ethical to have an objective 11+ test, not an IQ test, for
all primary school children - such as that currently proposed in Northern Ireland by Sir Kenneth Bloomfield, its former top civil servant - rather than a subjective religious test? The Conservative party's educational policies, where they exist, are in a shambles. They should cut the Gordian knot and opt for a fully-fledged transfer system for all primary school children and abandon both the unethical religious test and the equally iniquitous post code selection system, such as that just rejected by the people of Northern Ireland.

Dr David Green, Athens, Greece

I agree with Toby from Sydney; faith is personal and cannot be determined by statistics or analysis of statistics. People are on their moral high horses trying to use religion/lack of religion as a stick to beat any particular politician.

Instead of worrying about late baptisms people should ask why so many catholics support the Labour Party when that party promoted homosexuality and homosexual marriage, abortion, and the easy break up of marriage.

Numerically, that number of catholic supporters outnumbers any potential late baptisms by a factor of about 500 to 1, I would guess.

Or can we just do a la carte criticism?

Frank Keegan, Alderley Edge,

Camoron is honest and I applaud him, even though I would prefer a system where parents feel they need not manipulate the system. I know a head teacher of a leading catholic school who converted in order to apply for the post!

Carol, windsor,

Lack of belief or otherwise is an internal matter for the relevant church, not the law or some other moral system. The criticisms of parents who did it are meaningless therefore in a logical sense. Case closed. Move on please.

Toby, Sydney,

Ah, the joy of living in a country that doesn't have faith schools (Iceland).

The fact that parents actually have something to gain from publicly funded schools by pretending to be Catholic is a shameful stain on the UK. What those parents are doing is certainly hypocritical and less than ethical... but it's completely and utterly appalling if it matters to the schools what religion the parents are.

The parents should be ashamed but those who discriminate against them because of their religion should be fired. Even if that means firing every last principal of those schools.

Paul J., Reykjavik, Iceland

David Cameron has just forfeited any claim he might have had to lead a nation built on a cultural foundation that includes truth and honesty. By endorsing those who would lie and cheat to achieve their own ends, he has has joined the Clinton/Blair/Brown clique that believes that ethics has no place in public life.

What is the difference, Mr. Cameron, between these parents and common criminals? Because they say they are doing it for their children? What do you say, then about welfare cheats? Do you also approve of those who give a sob story why they are tax cheats? Fraudsters, conmen and common thieves?

And the degradation of British political ethics continue to erode, setting an what kind of example for those they represent? It seems as if the political leaders are endorsing the ethics of some of the other cultures where the ethics were contrary to those of the British peopl1.

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

Where does Mr Cameron draw the line then?

How about parents stealing money to 'do the best' for their children?

Of course, this is a farce that results from the mixing of education with religious instruction. Faith schools should be disbanded and a wholly secular system introduced. If parents want religious instruction for their children, there are places called churches, synagogues, mosques and so forth, that have a few thousand years of experience in such areas. And if parents want to spare their children the horrors of parts of the curriculum they object to, such as sex education, advice on contraception, the teaching of evolution and so on, fine, let them abstain (do not change the marking criteria in exams and assessments to pander to them, though)

We are in this bind because so many schools are designated C of E, I know, I went to one. Squash this status, because in a multicultural society with state provision of education, only a secular system is truly fair for all.

jason kennedy, La Antigua, guatemala

I've never met an anti-religious atheist that wasn't a bigot.

Scott, Toronto, Canada

I've never met a Christian who didn't have pretend beliefs.

Udo, Melbourne, Australia