Greg Hurst, Political Correspondent
We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
Nick Clegg, the Liberal Democrat leader, may be about to make parliamentary history by ordering his colleagues — on pain of political torture, or worse — not to vote at all.
Next week, after months of legal argument and political squabbling, Parliament will vote on whether the Lisbon treaty should be put to a referendum. However, Lib Dems have been told to stay away from both the Aye and No lobbies, with members of the front bench being threatened with dismissal if they do not comply.
One disgruntled party MP told The Times: “It must be the first time in history that there has been a three-line whip telling MPs to abstain.”
Despite the unusual vigour with which Liberal Democrats are being ordered to sit on the fence, Mr Clegg still faces his first serious Commons rebellion, with party insiders predicting that up to 15 MPs may break ranks and support a referendum. Several of the party’s frontbench spokesmen are among the potential rebels, with three of the firmest supporters of a referendum — David Heath, Alistair Carmichael and Tim Farron — sitting in the Lib Dem Shadow Cabinet.
There is scepticism within the party over whether Mr Clegg will risk a confrontation, given the party’s manifesto commitment at the 2005 general election to put Europe’s previous constitution to a popular vote.
Another Lib Dem asked: “How can you be sacked for voting in favour of your party’s election manifesto?”
The question of how Britain’s most fervently pro-European party got itself into such a tangle may puzzle outsiders; supporters of Mr Clegg say that the blame lies not with him but with Charles Kennedy, his predecessor-but-one. It was Mr Kennedy who allowed himself to be pushed into agreeing to support a referendum on the old European constitution, giving the Lib Dems a manifesto commitment identical to that held by Labour.
Sir Menzies Campbell, his successor, later claimed that the new Lisbon treaty was sufficiently different to make a referendum unnecessary. He called for a wider referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, an issue on which the Lib Dems were prevented from forcing a Commons vote on Tuesday.
The Deputy Speaker’s decision not to call the Lib Dem amendment prompted protests that led to Ed Davey, the party’s foreign affairs spokesman, being barred from the Commons for the day.
Mr Clegg’s spokeswoman confirmed that Lib Dem MPs were on a three-line whip to abstain. “It is important in the sense that we are trying to make a point about what we feel the referendum should be about,” she said. “If people don’t follow the party line they are pretty well aware of what the consequences could be.”
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Over the years I have taken notice of how the EU operates which is pretty much deciete & dictatorship with democracy and the people its constant foe.
The Lib Dems consist of two departments. The what the say department which is usualy whatever you want to hear and the what they do department which is usualy whatever the EU demands should be done to further its power over the people of Europe.
If as in this case they are faced with the choice with the people versus the EU its no suprise to many they chose the EU.
Akistair Carmicael my own MP who relys very heavily on being taken at face value has been doing a lot of squirming and avoidence on the question. He has yet to give me and the people of Shetland a straight public answer, instead trying unsuccessfully to dupe us with thier decoys of EU membership vote attempts and the constitution is not important.
Hence his squirming non commitence and aviodence he is being subjected to a media and poster campaigne localy.
Scotty Dyble, Scalloway, Shetland
My advice is listen to the people not clegg it is the people who vote you in or out so be warned we were promised a referendum and all the MP's from whatever party will more than likely lose their seats if they deny us what was promised the public do not forgive easily . ask Maggie
syd, Leeds, UK
When these Liberal Democrats wanted my vote they promised me a referendum on any treaty that involved a further transfer of power to the EU like that in the failed Constitutional Treaty.
Now that they have their seats, and its their turn to fulfil their end of the bargain it suddenly seems more complicated. For them to vote to deliver my referendum the transfer of power now has to be in a treaty with exactly the same words in its title as the previous one - that the content and transfer of power is the same doesn't count!
My MP Stephen Williams seems like a very down to earth, bright young man. So I feel confident that, beyond Mr Clegg's threats, he will see that anything other than a 'yes' on his voting record on the amendment to give us a referendum would be as serious a blow to his own chances of survival at a future election as it would be for the health of accountable democracy in general in this once model democratic country of ours.
David , Bristol , England
The bottom line i, if the Liberal Democrats do not vote in favour of a referendum thn they will not get 15 seats in the next general election.
I heard a Councillor from Liverpool speak at Central Hall yesterday, he is a 7th generation "Liberal Party" (not lib dem) member. He stated that he is ashamed of the Lib Dem view and spoke very eloquently and passionately about the need for a referendum.
I missed his name from the introduction (bad mic.) which is a shame, but i was convinced after his 10 minute speach that people who consider themselves as "Liberals" could not support Mr Cleggs position and i think there will be rebellions (both in the Commons and the Lords).
Bring Back the Liberal Party!
Daniel, London, UK
Stranger and stranger by the day....
If Clegg's the answer, what on earth was the question ?
Colin, Bromley, Kent
We've been wondering what they are for exactly.
If they did'nt exist would anyone bother inventing them?
Here in Scotland they may well be passed their sell by date having caused much trouble by smelling sleaze in relatively innocent places and missing sleaze in self confessed place.
Once a party seeking some kind of home rule but unwilling to join a party in government who want to ask the Scottish people a Question, AFTER having joined up with a party who took us into an illegal war.
I ask again , 'WHat are they for?'
Disgruntled Dorothy, Glasgow, Scotland
dump clegg, chaps and recall cable
peter codner, devizes, england
how can you net let the MP's vote? That is what they are there for and should be voting on behalf of there constituents.
Nick Clegg has stumbled at the first hurdle.
Bring back Vince.
Dave, London, South East
Why not allow the MP's to vote, as their constituents wish? That is after all why they are there.
If anything I'd rather he insisted they voted NO.
Arthur, Newcastle,
From Mr green to Stalin in less than 3 months.
Neil McF, Southampton, England
This "person" belongs to a party that promised to support a referendum. Now the order is "don't vote". I entirely agree with Ian Burgess of Bristol.
The Lib-Dems are being grossly misled by this person - but then they did have a vote; something he wishes to deny the general population in regard to the future of the UK.
There are some useful words that could be used for his type. Unfortunately there is no means of impeaching such types for treason.
M. Cawdery, Portadown, UK
But the Liberal Democrats, in their manifesto, promised us a referendum. Since they have broken their promise on something as big as this, then they cannot be trusted on anything else. I shall not vote for them again.
George, Bolton, England
Didn't take long
martin brighton, sheffield,
I always said the LibDems have a propensity to choose the wrong leader.
This proves it.
Madasafish, Stoke on trent,
Wont be voting for them then
Phil, Castleford, Yorkshire
Nick Clegg - Liberal Democrat? Sounds neither liberal nor democratic to me. MPs should be allowed to vote according to their conscience and the will of their constituents. If these conflict then the MP should make this plain and vote according to their conscience. That would probably be too much to ask of the current crop, I'm afraid.
Ian Burgess, Bristol,