what happened to 'Government of the people, by the people, for the people?

Perhaps the 'people' are all now 'spinless, lying toadies like those that we elected to represent us!

They should all remember they were elected as 'representatives' not because they were cleverer than anyone else and knew better!

nomora libdem, Doncaster, yorkshire

Telling the General Public how they must vote would be seen as a Dictatorship.
How different is it for a Party leader to insist elected members of Parliament must vote how he wants them to..

The Lib-Dems are not even in office!! though now we can all clearly see that 'Parliament is a Dictatorship'.
Parliament overthrew a Dictatorship over 400 years ago.
Looks like WE need to do the same to this one.

(Ps. Andy B, of London is exactly right.)

Mrs E Nightingale, Cambridge, England

What part of "democrat" do the Lib Dems not understand? To value optics above principle or democracy beggars belief.

Chris, London,

An astute move. It leaves only one option; IN or OUT. What they wanted in the first place. In the past I would have voted in; now, most assuredly I would vote OUT! The details of the corrupt, failing and incompetent unelected EU Commission have been brought out in this debate, Reform is impossible and it will disintegrate over time and the UK would be best out of it before then!

M. Cawdery, Portadown, UK

Not one of your correspondents has mentioned what they disapprove of in the Lisbon Treaty. I suspect that none have read it. It has taken a few weeks plus 6 hours yesterday to debate it in the Commons. How do any of the pro-referendum junkies expect Jo Public to make an informed response if they have to spend that amount of their working or leisure time accessing all the arguments and then answering a one question referendum? It was a Con trick; they thought most of the public would think the referendum was a straight in or out of the EU option.Now they have been rumbled. Well done Libdems for not playing any of this silly game.

Noel Thompson, Tavistock,

i always understood that elected members of parliament where there to represent their constituants and vote accordingly, not be bullied by their party leader to vote one way, this makes Clegg no better than Mugabe.

Gordon Eversfield, Port Gentil, Gabon

I am most disappointed that nobody seems to think that this is a democratic Country anymore. Whatever happened to letting people have their say?

Vicki, Tewkesbury, UK

A good definition of a dictatorship is using the Democratic process to gain power, and once in power, dismantling the Democratic process.

All the political parties in this country are guilty of completely ignoring the wishes of the people, despite the fact that, that is their sole reason to exist.

An election promise is the foundation on which the people chose whom to vote for. It must be kept ! I give this government fair warning.....continue to ignore the people you serve at your peril.

David, Birmingham, UK

"...an abstention is not a cop-out. It is just a third choice when the other two are not acceptable..."

Errr really ? I'd say that that was the definition of a cop out. Besides, its a pretty simple question isn't it? "do you think, the people of this country, whom you have sworn to represent, should get a say with regard to the EU Treaty - Yes or No"?

Yes or No......the third choice here then, to a liberal who one day hopes to lead this nation, is aparently a rather pathetic "Hmmm....maybe, but then maybe not ......oh heck, I just don't know"

Maybe they should have asked a different question ..... "Do you think the govt, even with its undemocratically elected leader, should make good on it manifesto promise and give the people of the nation a vote - Yes or No"

This whole thing is just beyond belief (despite Chris Davies amazing statement that its "incredibly trivial").

Andy, Vancouver, Canada (soon now, so soon !!)

It is futile to expect Politicians to honour democracy when considering the majority opinions of the people. The purpose of an enlarged federal Europe is to increase the captive tax source. According to Wikipedia, the present population of the EU is nearly 500 million, with a per capita income of about £14,000. One Pound, per week, per capita nets the Politicians 2,500 million Pounds per year. When tax on income and sales tax (=VAT =tax on taxed income) is considered the figures are staggering. They are positioned to tax from cradle to grave- note VAT on children' clothes. With their 1/4 million Pound salaries and unlimited expenses that make the UK politician’s expenses look like petty cash, every National politician dreams of being a Euro mp. The lie that there is no future outside the EU is easy to expose. Go into any Supermarket and look at the origin of the goods. Most hardware is made in China/Far East, most high value fresh food produce comes from outside the EU.

CJ, London, uk

Glegg is of course being less than honest, but then he is a politician, He had to be aware that by ordering his troops to abstain on this issue he was handing it to Mcbroon. Come the next election, if the EU haven't banned them as an irrelevance, I hope that their constituents remember how they were lied to and vote accordingly, I certainly will and I will encourage everyone that I know to send our MP to the dole queue were he and all of his ilk belong.

FEF, Cheltenham, UK

Only a seriously demented fool or a traitor would sign a self amending contract, that once signed, can be altered to anything Brussels might wish for without any further reference to the signatory whatsoever.

Demented fools or recipients of thirty pieces of silver?

Methinks Times readers are poorly informed.

5 March 2008. The day democracy in Britain died.

One good thing. The Lib Dems just self destructed.

emmie9, Barnet, Hertfordshire

The sad thing is that the LibDems do no allow a referendum. It is a natural thing that the people have to decide on such an important issue. Is the refusal to have the population vote on this liberal? I don´t think so.

Alex, Vienna, Austria

Clegg and the Social Democrats have failed the electorate. To abstain from such a crucial vote, that will affect this country and its people for ever, just in a fit of pigue because the Speaker refused to put forward his request for a referendum on membership of the EU, is traitorous and shows a total lack of democracy.

Clegg is walking the Social Democrats down the hill into the wilderness. Long may he do so as his dismal showing, by sitting on the fence, yesterday showed that they are not fit to be in any form of government.

Mike Butcher, W-s.M, England

What's the point of voting for anyone, knowing that they go their own sweet way once they're in power?
The United Kingdom Independence Party becomes a better option day by day.
As for Labour, Liberal and Conservative politicians - as Alice would say, "Off with their heads!".

Trevor Jaydee, Torbay, UK

Good for David Heath.I've always had a lot of time for him.(and our wonderful,newly discovered "stand up quipster",Vince cable!Cheesed off (temporarily)Lib Demess.

HD, WsM,

How is democracy served by a three-line whip? It's all about serving the will of one party leader, rather than will of 40-odd million citizens. And how these people can stand up in that zoo they call a parliament and scream at the top of their lungs "we have the mandate of our people" is beyond credulity.

David Masu, Zürich,

The Lib Dem reason not to vote was logical and reasoned but clealry asn't going to play well with constituents or media.

The Lib Dems came across as weak, th Tories came across as clueless and Labour came across as conniving.

Pretty much an average day in Parliament.

Most people don't care hugely about this issue, but will be shaking their heads at the pathetic display of whining and hollering from all int he commons. This is what makes us lose faith in our system, not a fabricated 'betrayal' on a non-existant constitution.

Ez Mayo, Oxford,

Clegg has made a terrible mistake that people will remember. The result of this silly stance has drawn all the focus of attention on himself and the Lib Dem MPs instead of being aimed at Brown & Co Ltd who should be hung drawn and quartered for failing the British electorate on this issue.

Once again we are given another example of a LIb Dem vote being a wasted vote and their Mps are not worthy to serve their constituents in Parliment.

This has seriously harmed the Lib Dems.

Jimmy, York,

If anything, Clegg should have ordered his MPs to vote for a referendum and honoured his parties pledge. The refusal of parliment in general to bow to the publics wish for a referendum on the 'treaty' is a sign that our democratic system is extremely flawed, the power to call a referendum should lie with the electorate not the government, Brown will no doubt rue his refusal at the next election, but will Cameron have the courage to honour the conservative pledge?

Leslie Corrin, Southport, England

It is time for us, the people, to face up to the damage caused to our democracy by the whips system.

Currently, democracy in this country appears briefly during elections, then is closed down for a number of years on all the important whipped votes, a handful of oligarchs at the top of each party deciding how *our* MPs must vote, regardless of the wishes of constituents or their better judgement.

Is it any wonder that people are turned off politics, when they see how powerless their 'representation' in parliament really is in practice?

Be angry. Be very angry, and argue for a change.

Andy B, London,

It should be a free vote and then the results of who voted what published. The people can then decide whether or not to vote for their MP in the next election. I have emailed my MP Gerry Sutcliffe twice and he hasnt bothered to email back and I know he will comply with the labour stance on this issue and vote for not holding a referendum. I wont be voting for Sutcliffe or Labour in the future. As to Clegg, he should honour the promise made, to hold a referendum, not abstain, that is just a cop out.

Patricia Beatrice Kenny, Bradford , UK

Every Member of Parliament should be representing their constituents and voting accordingly, that would be Democracy,
anything else is Dictatorship, Which of course is par for the course with this current Blair/Brown regime.

Clive Burghard , LANCING, ENGLAND

Dave Butcher, Luton - I congratulate you as the author of the most concise and accurate summary of the situation I have so far seen in any newspaper.

We are losing our right to govern ourselves without having any input into the decision, whilst our debate amd opinion polls (few as there are) are contempibly dismissed. It is a national disgrace.

Edwin, Bucharest,

Cleggs 3 line whip to to abstain is effectively a block vote in favour or ratifying the EU Constitution.

The issue is not about whether to stay in the EU or to leave, only hardline Eurosceptics think that way. The issue should be how to make the EU an institution that it is worth being a member of, and rejecting the flawed constitution would be a good first step towards reforming the EU into something that can work.

Ratifying the convention will set in stone all the inefficiencies and a lot of the political bias that the EU currently suffers from and make it very hard to change anything for the better.

Tim, London,

Why do the parties fear a free vote?

Do they know that the MP's by and large would all do what the public wants?

Mr Clegg should of course go for his Referendum on Europe, however should look at this as a process that supports his eventual aim, not as "This OR That".

By not backing this referendum, Mr Clegg is breakig the spirit, if not the words of the Promise.

Paul, Newcastle, UK

According to weekend polls, 88% of people want a referendum - perhaps NuLabour can resign en-masse, as they are notr prepared to find out what the will of the people is, and follow it.

WS, Manchester,

Honourable gentlemen ... the first signs?

Christopher King, Crewe,

I think this is just a trick to get the party publicity in the run up to the party spring conference.

There is no principle involved and no real issue as is identified in the commentary that follows the above article (on Newsnight last night).

Its school boys throwing a tantrum for the media.

I can understand it if it was some grave principle at stake.

But it is all hot air. That is all the current Liberal Democrats are capable off.

Yasmin Zalzala, Manchester, UK

Perhaps we should have a referendum as to whether we should have a British Constitution. There could then be no accusations of hypocrasy againt the British media and right wing political parties they support.

Michael Ashall, Redditch,

It seems to me that the whole concept of a Whip to order MPs to follow a party line in the manner of their voting is contrary to the idea of democracy--- which means government by the people. Each MP is responsible to his/her constituents, who voted him/her onto the seat; not to the party which tries to order his/her conscience. I applaud these three front bench MPs who are willing to give up their party allegiance rather than have their vote decided for them. The same should be able to be said for members of the other two parties.
As for the referendum, we were promised there would be one over the relinquishment of power to a foreign government, which is apparently the aim of the Lisbon Treaty. A promise is a promise and if the government is honourable it will keep that promise. To do anything else is despicable.

Dave Butcher, Luton, Beds, UK

The only question is not should there be a referendum on Europe; instead we should ask why shouldn't there be a referendum on Europe?

Tony Reeve, Potters Bar, UK, Hertfordshire

i think that every one should vote and it should be a reflection
of the the public they serve not there nor the there bosses opinions we vote these people in they should be listening to the people of england

john middleton, congleton, england