241 Pizza

Emphasising that he believes the alliance completely, Mr Blair said: “I am not being dragged reluctantly to support President Bush. Maybe that makes it worse for people, I don’t know, but I believe it is an important part of our security.”

Mr Blair claimed that his own party was ready to come to terms with Mr Bush’s victory. “I think that the Labour Party has a very mature and sensible view, though not in all quarters, that says President Bush is a Republican and not of the Labour Party’s politics, but, on the other hand, the relationship with America is immensely strong.”

In his view, neo-conservatives are not a world away from the progressive Left. “That is part of the argument we should be able to agree with,” he said. “When the Americans say we want to extend democracy to these countries, or extend democracy and human rights throughout the Middle East in the Greater Middle East Initiative, people say, well, that is part of the neo-conservative agenda. Actually, if you put it in different language, it is a progressive agenda.”

Mr Blair said that Britain was uniquely placed in Europe to find “the common ground upon which we can agree. There will be areas where we cannot, and climate change may end up being one of them. But there are a lot upon which we can agree and it is important so far as possible that Europe and America do agree”. But “it does also require America to be prepared to reach out. You don’t get a partnership except on a basis of equality.”

Mr Blair said the only obstacles to Iraqi elections are “terrorist bombs and the activities of extremists”. He argued that “people do understand that we wouldn’t be even contemplating action in Fallujah were it not for the fact that these people operate out of Fallujah”.

He acknowledged a difference with the US over the treatment of British prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. “If we cannot get the guarantees on the process, and we don’t believe the process is satisfactory at the moment, then they will have to come back.” His concerns extend to all prisoners there. “I have always said it (Guantanamo) is an anomaly and at some point it has to be resolved. It is important that we make sure that there are proper legal norms that are obeyed.”

Mr Blair, who was speaking before the news broke of the acute illness of Yassir Arafat, the Palestinian leader, said that the Israeli plan to pull out of Gaza was a big opportunity to push the peace process forwards. It offers a chance of helping the Palestinians to create the infrastructure necessary “so that we can get into a proper discussions about a final status negotiation”.

“The withdrawal from Gaza is merely the beginning. It has got to be built on, and built on very quickly, and I think there is a role for Europe as well as for America there.”

His commitment to the “road map”, the plan for parallel concessions by each side that remains the cornerstone of European Union policy, is not fully shared in Washington. Senior Administration officials say that they have some enthusiasm for practical steps in getting Gaza to work, but little more. Mr Blair said: “I would be really surprised if people said they had no appetite for the final status negotiation, or indeed the principles of the road map, because I can assure you that is not the position of the President.” Mr Bush, he notes, was the first President to commit to a two-state solution.

On Iran, Mr Blair insisted that there is agreement between Europe and America on the importance of making sure that it abides by its obligations laid down by the International Atomic Energy Authority. He added: “I have never heard a discussion of some invasion of Iran. Iran is not Iraq and there are different ways of dealing with these problems.”

Britain plays only a small role in trying to contain the North Korean nuclear threat, where Mr Blair’s views were sharp. He called the human rights issues massive, and said: “I find that one of the most — I was going to say offensive — I certainly find it one of the strangest phenomena that in all the protests I get outside the gates of Downing Street, and there is a new one every day, I don’t think there are any about North Korea, despite the fact that the people there live in a form of semi-slavery.”

The thrust of the interview was about foreign policy. But we asked Mr Blair how he felt now that he had made clear his plans to stay in Downing Street for the whole of a possible third term, but not beyond. He said that he is relieved at having made the announcement. He claimed not to be surprised at the lack of reaction. “You know, there were one or two interviewers saying to me ‘Don’t you think you will have started speculation about when you might go?’ I said ‘what on earth have I had for the last year or 18 months?’ ”

ON BUSH AND AMERICA

‘In a way some people are in a sort of state of denial’

‘In the second term the President has space and energy to develop an agenda that can unify Europe and America’

‘I hope we start to get a sensible debate about why people in America feel as they do’

Explore UK News

• Crime News

• Education News

• Health News

• Scotland News

Times Recommends

• How I lost the gift of joy for a while
• Why Ann Widdecombe has got it wrong
• Alas, it’s the end of the road for petrolheads