Philip Webster, Political Editor
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The Government will never persuade the public to accept road pricing unless it is more honest about how the revenue will be used, the AA has said.
The motoring group said that ministers could lose the argument before even the first trial of the system, under which drivers would pay by the mile on congested roads. A petition against the scheme on the Downing Street website has embarrassed the Government by attracting about 1.2 million signatures. At times yesterday would-be petitioners had difficulty in gaining access to the site, such was the response from drivers.
The AA urged the Government to tell motorists whether the tolls would be in addition to, or instead of, existing taxes and demanded clarity on whether any additional revenue would be used for improving the transport network. Paul Watters, the AA’s head of transport policy, said: “People only see extra cost on the horizon, rather than a readjustment in how they pay. Transparency and stating guiding principles would help to give the public a better understanding. Those principles should include a commitment to reducing other motoring taxes and ring-fencing revenues.”
Douglas Alexander, the Transport Secretary, said that an e-mail encouraging signatures to the online petition contained several “myths”. The campaigners oppose increases in road taxes and the installation of tracking devices in cars.
Mr Alexander, who has denied that the system would be used to catch speeding drivers and has promised that privacy would not be invaded — countering two of the “myths”, played down the significance of the campaign, as “just one contribution to the debate”. He said that he expected similar-sized petitions in favour of the scheme. Officials said later that they were not aware that any had been organised. No decision has been taken on a national scheme but the Government is developing trial schemes in ten areas.
A Department for Transport official said: “Doing nothing is not an option. We welcome all debate, but it must be based on fact and not fallacy. The first step to achieving this is to demonstrate through local pilot schemes how road pricing can tackle local congestion.”
Mr Alexander told the BBC: “We have got a big response to this petition. I imagine there will be other petitions in the future with large responses, but it is an important part of the debate that we want to see.” Speaking on the Radio 4Today programme, he said: “A number of myths have been perpetrated and that is why I welcome the opportunity to set some of the facts straight.”
Paul Biggs, of the Association of British Drivers, told GMTV: “The only way road pricing can work is to price people off the roads. That is one reason they will sign the petition. Another reason they will sign it is that they are going to be traced wherever they drive.”
The department said: “Public acceptability of such schemes is one of the milestones that has to be achieved. We have always said that we have to see the results of the pilot schemes before we make a decision.”
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I think if the road charges do come in then they should offer discounts to small businesses, because they will go bankrupt otherwise.
i think this is one step too far, but the government won't mind because they get all the money from this. The only fair way is to re-invest the money back into making better quality roads, so you really get what you pay for
howard, walsall, England
Our govenment has done very little to inprove our transport system but yet would insist on increaseing the cost of travell.
R. Triggs, cardiff, CARDIFF
It is about time this Labour government started to spend the 45 thousand million pounds plus, they take from the motorist is spent on converting these funds into easing the traffic by building roads in the area they realy need and the only way they will get this is by talking to experience drivers who drive for a living not office people who have a selfish agenda. Listen to us and dont kill off the golden goose which will happen if you dont listen i can give you better ideas than someone in an office or the public servants who are only interested in getting car drivers off the road and as we know they are the most law abiding in the country.
Ken Wakley Trick , Cambridge,
It is time we all stopped and looked at our selfish obsession with the motor vehicle.
People travel ridiculous mileages each year both to work, for shopping and recreation.
We are blinded by the convenience of the car. So much that people drive short distances to school. Why? Because their children arent safe on the roads as there are so many cars. We use the same blinkered arguments in all aspects of our day to day existence, whether it is for work or other journeys.
We cannot do anything without the car...
Whilst the Government may not have all the right ideas on road pricing, the idea of charging motorists in some way as long as it funds great public transport is absolutely fantastic.
I drive 70miles each day to get to work so would be hit hard by road pricing. I would love to be able to use public transport, if there was any.
It is time we all changed our attitudes
andrew, tarporley, cheshire
i am against the road charges, we pay enough to put our cars on the road.
It would make sense if the goverment done away with road tax any any other taxes that they have in mind, and just the it on the fuel, therefore the person that uses the roads and travels the most would pay the most to drive on them.
But this is so simple.
Mr B J Shaw, salisbury, wiltshire
I am totally against mileage charges for motorists, unless road tax and petrol duty are abolished.
The onus then would be on drivers who do the most miles paying for the priviledge, many journeys are totally unneccessary, Public transport could save thousands of miles and fuel which is quickly running out.
Rural drivers need the availability of moving to cities for most of their services and many of the elderly a car is their only means of transport.
Goods can only be transported by road and any tax put on transport would increase our cost of living.
The government should think seriosly about this taxation and look to other means of making the roads easier to use and safer.
L.Banner, Oldbury, England
There is an alternative
Instead of spending millions on road charging pilot schemes the government should examine what is happening in Wales, where only a small percentage of those entitled to a free bus pass have applied for one and an even smaller percentage of those actually use them. If the majority of pensioners in Wales are prepared to use their own money on petrol and parking rather than use free public transport then road charging is not the answer. There is an equitable cost free alternative that would guarantee a 10, 20 or even 30 percent decrease in traffic in congested areas, known as System C, but as it wouldnt pour millions into the Treasurys coffers politicians pretend they have never heard of it.
Yours faithfully
Brian Christley, Abergele, Conwy
right very well done to whom ever is elected at the time , let the serf,s walk even though all industry is miles from the dormitory estates. in fact drive trough the puddles , lets splash them driver so they walk in the gutters as they should.because i am elected to be better than them , i canm tax them , watch them , fine them , imprison, them. in fact i know best for they give me a pension way in excess of ther expectations of working , in fact why not let them eat grass..the road pricing is all well and good if your place of work is the end of your street , or a single bus or train ride away , let me know where this eutopia is . .. FOUR WHEELS BAD TWO LEGS GOOD
P.P. JACKSON, MANCHESTER, ENGLAND
Why is it that when increases in air travel are anticipated, there is a rush to build yet more airports, but when more car travel is anticipated there is an increase in taxes to prevent it? I would wager that everybody driving to work/transporting goods etc creates more wealth for the country (in direct taxation alone, let alone the wealth cerated by the work we all do) than is created by air travel. Why would the government promise to increase investment in public transport from these road tolls, when they don't out of the billions raised in car tax, fuel tax, insurance premium tax and so on?
David Leslie, Perth, Scotland
When someone stands up and says, 'We want to, as quickly as
possible, put in place a comprehensive, reliable public transport system and ban all private use of cars...vote for us!'...they'll get my vote.
Sadly I dont see anyone waiting in the wings with the gumption to do it. Instead we are asked to buy into more nanny state half measures that gives those who can afford it something else to gripe about, and to hell with the poor. In fact we are not even asked!....
Cars and the way people drive them is unsustainable and has to stop...stop, not be taxed. Taxation wont work, and the planet wont wait....
Burning fossil fuels has to be drastically reduced and phased out...very soon. Thats what should be being addressed.
Instead, they dish out more ineffectual measures in the name of being seen to be doing something....rather like current immigration policy and the 'war on drugs'....hugely expensive operations that just dont work...at all...
How much longer are we going to settle for 'too little too late'?
George Bacon, Cambridge,
I can fully endorse what Richard of Manchester said
"We already have a pretty effective form of road pricing - taxation on fuel. Those who drive furthest and have the least fuel efficient cars pay most. It is infinitely varable without the need for tracking devices. The current government propsals have, as ever, more to do with creating an additional revenue stream than anything else"
I would add that totally unneccesary totalitarian socialist idea is a further decline into a police state.
Stickems, Sussex,
I would like to see how they are going to convince the european truckers,buisiness people and tourists to fit these trackers to their vehicles or are they going to be exempt the same as they are from paying fines.After all the heavy trucking causes more congestion and damage on our roads than anything else.I travel around 3500 miles a month using the M20 and M25 and I would say most of the accidents involve heavy trucking which in turn causes major congestion.
Andrew, Ashford,
Rather than stop using our cars, why not spearhead a campaign to boycott products from countries like China and India who pollute so much without any controls whatsoever?! If we in the West didn't buy their cheap goods, then we wouldn't aid and abet their criminal levels of pollution!! Furthermore, we should anyway avoid buying goods from China with its appalling human rights record (thousands of unnecessary executions every year etc). It would be a lot harder to avoid US goods, I freely concede, even though they are the other great polluter but, in the face of crazy economic growth in China and India, even if all of us in the West stopped driving cars, it would make a negligeable difference to global warming. Don't we already have that all-important 'moral leg to stand on' because of having at least some emissions controls?
Edward Thomas, Oxford, Oxfordshire
New Labour... Old tricks!! This government really needs to get its head out of the sand. Stop pledging the impossible and start working for the people it is supposed to represent. This new "Road Tax" will cost me personally over £70 per day just to get to the office and back home calculated at £1.28 per mile on major routes. So as well as being tracked wherever I go, I can be taxed wherever I go!!. Perhaps it would be better for me to claim benefits or perhaps I could use the old chestnut "Its against my religion" and get away without paying anything.
Mr Alexander, I invite you to do my job for a week using your new road pricing scheme so you could at least make an educated decision based on what it is like for us UK Citizens that have to work so we can pay your governments taxes.
S H, Southampton, UK
We already have a pretty effective form of road pricing - taxation on fuel. Those who drive furthest and have the least fuel efficient cars pay most. It is infinitely varable without the need for tracking devices. The current government propsals have, as ever, more to do with creating an additional revenue stream than anything else.
Richard, Manchester,
I quite agree with Paul Whatley. None of us drive in rush hour traffic for the sake of it, it just so happens that the vast majority of people need to be somewhere, i.e. work, at 9am. Of course, should this madcap scheme actually be put in place, I couldn't actually afford to get to work, so I suppose there'd be one less car on the road...
I imagine such road pricing would force traffic from more expensive motorways and A-roads onto currently quieter rural roads which would be cheaper - surely congestion would just move from one place to another?
And I don't know how many companies will cope with this. My company would have to pay me 200 miles' worth of road pricing expenses, mainly for motorways, every week, in addition to the current petrol expenses they pay for. Either that or put my salary up to allow for it, together with those of about 6 other people who travel similar journeys... I doubt they could afford it.
Jo, Nottingham,
With some 15million plus motorists in the country of which it is reported some 1.2 million do not pay road tax how will the govt and the courts enforce payment of road pricing bills should the number of non-payers be of the same proportion?. Surley the best and most cost-effective way of road pricing is to increase fuel duty by some 50p per litre, those who use the roads most (and those who drive 'thirsty' vehicles) would pay the most and , unless you steal the fuel, you could not avoid paying it (unless you are a government minister of course!). This would also free up the billions that would have to be spent which then could be used to provide better roads or out of town park & ride sites for those who could still afford to use their cars. Whatever course the government chooses it has the same effect - to price cars off the road to speed the journeys of those who can still afford to drive and those who do not have to pay the bills.
David Harrison, Grantham, Lincs
On the Today program Mr Alexander suggested that the purpose of road pricing would be to 'encourage' drivers to use their vehicles outside of peak hours.
Perhaps Mr Alexander should spend a little time on the M62 at 8.30am; whilst stationary he could reflect on whether the drivers around him could possibly have any greater incentive not to be there than the incentive already created by the appalling congestion.
The truth is that drivers stuck in rush hour traffic are not undertaking elective journies, they are there because they have to be.
Mr Alexander and his allies should drop this pretence that road charging is about changing driver behaviour and admit that it is yet another example of the government's dual instinct to raise revenue and legislate away our liberty.
Paul Whatley, Halifax,
The reason for increased traffic is that social & economic policy over the last 20 years has necessitated a mobile work force (Tebbit - "On your bike!"). Employment is becoming ever more fragmented which is making the situation worse (1000's of redundant civil servants come to mind). On top of this some areas are being forced to accept the building of new housing stock where there is insufficient local employment, without improvements in infrastructure. There is also the shift in shopping from high street to megastore.
Road pricing would be a negative encouragement to get traffic off the roads. What we really need is joined up government with a cohesive social policy. This problem transcends politics - the die was set before "new labour." We need to treat the cause not the symptoms.
Paul K, Thornton Cleveleys,
so with the government currently obsessed with green matters will they innevitably have to drop this idea as it will surely result in people avoiding "congested routes" by taking longer journeys thus creating more emmissions!
i am lucky enough not to have to live in the UK but i consider it, for want of a better phrase, to be my "spiritual home" and it upsets me to see such an amazing country going down so many poorly thought out paths such as increased taxation/charging which will ultimately be irreversable as so many people will be dependant on the revenues and the jobs created that no government will be able to undo the rules/legislations.
jules , offshore,
The poor will stop driving; the rich don't care and Big Brother Blair and his control freak cronies will know exactly where you are at all times! Police state - Oh No!
John Law, Barnsley,
Mr Alexander, who has denied that the system would be used to catch speeding drivers and has promised that privacy would not be invaded.
The trouble is Mr alexander is a New Labour Minister so I for one don't believe him, perhaps he could be asked if this is a pledge or an aspiration.
John Gresham, Liverpool, UK
It seems that this government's advisors are always thinking of new ways to "charge" the public. It announces initiatives without thinking them through and then has to do a u-turn. If the government wants to push through with this, then firstly a viable and safe public transport system must be in place. Secondly, the current road tax must be abolished and possibly the fuel tax should be reduced. Then perhaps we can think about this new scheme.
Hamad Lone, Thornton Heath, England
The reality of life is that people must go from Point A to Point B for their employment. To go to medical appointments, pruchase groceries, and the myriad of other daily tasks in modern life, some people must go from Point A to Point B to Point C to Point D before returning home at Point A.
The government has proposed no solutions to these needs in a reasonable amount of time. The only solution conceived by Government is to 1) punish the public, and 2) raise more revenue to play with.
Bob Evans, Anaheim, California
Why not consider public transport for a pilot scheme, instead taxation, as usual?
Durr, silly me that will cost money, whereas tax takes money from working population for the treasurer to squander on useless projects that do not benefit the actual taxpayers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
J Bush, Cambridge,
Until we have a public transport system that is a viable alternative how
can people possibly be convinced to abandon there cars. I moved to
london 2 years ago and since then the only place i have had anything
stolen or been threatened is on the bus and it has almost doubled in price.
I cycle a lot but have had several near misses on the still fundamentally
unsafe and incomplete cycle routes . I am a student at the moment but
as soon as I can affford a car i will be getting one. Does no one ask were
the Billions raised by fuel taxes,supposedly to fund are green 'public'
transport system have gone? This will be just another tax that will end up
squandered.
Justin Randle, Camden, UK