What happened to name, rank and serial number

Michael Fortunato, Bronxville, NY USA

Yes the Royal Navy can rightly defeat the Iranian Navy any day- no one arugues that Sir Alan. But it is the aftermath of such an act that will bring forth terrorism and unconventional attacks that the UK will have to face. In light of that, I'd say there's no need to say in how many days one can sink another's navy.

Randy, Washington, USA

Keith, I'd like to offer my personal thanks for Britain's steadfast support of the U.S. It is not offered often enough in my estimation. The same for our friends in Oz.. I'm speaking simply as a plain ol' middle class American. I am often humbled by comments such as yours. Now, as for our good friend Lezli, THAT comment sounds like a form letter taken straight from the U.S. liberal playbook and has substituted Mr. Blair's name where Mr. Bush's name usually resides. Again, on behalf of a grateful nation (and this one "hillbilly" from Kentucky), I salute our British friends and thank them for their sacrifice..

Randy, Owensboro, Kentucky

With all due respect - and not much respect is due- this unfortunate article, aptly described by another writer as "pathetic", persuasively underscores the urgent need for decisive, clear-thinking and courageous leadership in Great Britain today.

We may take some comfort in the fact that Sir Allan is the FORMER First Sea Lord.

When the Mother Country of the English Speaking World is assaulted, shamed and humiliated, as has been done by Iran, the effect is unsettling to all who value the culture, laws, manners, stability, traditions, language, ideas and ideals that Great Britain has spread throughout the civilized world.

Weak leadership is doing Great Britain...great harm.

May God save the Queen. May God, and strong, wise men and women...save Great Britain!

A. G. Gumbs, Glendale Heights, USA/Illinois

Should it now become mandatory for our forces to carry white flags? I am ashamed to call myself british- name rank number mean anything laughing boys?

sabz, cardiff, wales

Sir Alan

I think we need to focus on lessons learned.

I believe there is goood news and bad news

The bad news, Navy needs to change its athem from Hearts of Oak,. Suggest Engelbert's Please Release me.

The good news, I believe the fifteen have solved the defence budget crisis. We can remove all the weapons and ammunition from Navy on the basis it will never be used. Likewise, Trident replacement is solved! Just give Navy a photograph of a Trident missile, will save hundreds of millions

Best Wishes

Jack, pompey,

"must never happen again" blah, blah, blah. Col Blimp is alive and well. This cringe making episode was seen around the world and people who regarded the UK as one of the last bastions of integrity and reliance will be as bemused as I (an ex-Para) am. The behaviour of the service personnel was shameful, and to think they included two officers. Thank goodness they didn't have any 'real' information. The guys who walked across the Falklands to engage the enemy and the people who did Britain proud in the first Gulf War will be shaking their heads in disbelief.

Harry , Riga, Latvia

To Kathy Wheeldon. Madam it is the weak who make a decision solely based on emotion and pride. It is the strong who put this aside and put the lives of others and their country before. As many 'armchair soliders' commenting on here wish, the sailors and marines should have gone out all guns blazing, getting themselves killed and causing further ammunition for Iran to further their dangerous and irrational actions. All of you who are preaching for an eventual military conflict are playing right into their hands. Apart from the fact that both the US and UK forces are currently so overstretched it is frightening, a military showdown will further destabilise the region. Ahmadinejad is actually quite weak domestically. The west acting like cowboys will strengthen his grip on the country and give fire to an already dangerous Iranian foreign policy . Actions must be taken against Iran, they are being taken and will be in the future but there is no magic fix.

V, London,

American marines or sailors would never have licked the feet of their Iranian captors as our servicemen did. The fifteen “hostages” made a mockery of our armed forces and our nation and should be dismissed from the services in disgrace. I am ashamed of what those kids did. People like that cannot be allowed to defend us: they don't even know who the enemy are.

How do the families of the four British servicemen, killed yesterday by an Iranian roadside bomb, feel when one of the "hostages" says that he wants to go on a vacation to Iran next year because he enjoyed his captivity so much? If he does go back to Iran on holiday he will be feted as a hero by the Iranians.

Arthur Gibson, Melbourne, VIC

How would you propose to "destroy the entire Iranian surface fleet in ten days"??? Do you suppose that the Iranians would not retaliate - or even strike preemptively at your ships with anti ship cruise missiles?

You could not deploy your entire Navy to the Persian Gulf and in any case, and your every last ship currently in the Persian Gulf would be sunk.

If you were to even threaten such an action, your ships in the Persian Gulf would immediately become floating death traps.

You should know that very well "Admiral". It is very sloppy to not research Iran's anti ship cruise missile arsenal before you issue such threats.

Perhaps that is how your boys and girls were captured in the first place!

Hu Sun, Daqing, China

What on earth is the admiral talking about? His quote ""Can you imagine what would have been the consequences if we had sunk the Iranian ships that attacked us? " sums up the miserable performance so far
of the prosecution of this UN mandated mission. If ships attack, are we no longer permitted to respond in kind? Britannia may no longer rule the waves but come on!

His further assertion that "We all know that the statements they made were meaningless " shows much wishful thinking but a complete misunderstanding of the souls and minds of those we would wish to influence in the region.

The retired admiral may believe that they were meaningless, who else I wonder?

I agree wholeheartedly with the comments of your contributors from Hong Kong and Ohio.

John Groom, Yerevan, Armenia

This man is deluded.

He says that the statements are meaningless, yet the West is relying on statements from Guantanemo Bay, Abu Graib and CIA rendition camps that have been extracted under torture.

I know which statements out of the two would hold up in an international court of law, as he would like us to use, and it's not those extracted from the use of torture.

Iran is the dominant power in that region, even if it's entire surface fleet was destroyed it could halt all shipping traffic in the Straits in a matter of minutes if it chose to do so. That would bring the West to it's knees in a matter of weeks.

As a final thought, what such unprincipled servicemen we have, willing to say anything for a cup of tea and a biscuit.

Bill Thomas, London,

Big words have led to wars. Britain is struggling to finish/get out of 2 wars in the region and is bombasting about attacking yet another state instead of letting the diplomats solve problems. Let them deal with the mullahs, contain lunacy and don't give it centre stage. (Yet somehow Ahmadinejad and Blair seem to deserve each other!)

Why haven't we figured out yet that the World does not want Britain to 'keep the peace' and fight wars to protect its business interests and contracts? As if people don't know that most of the root causes of today's wars were created by Britain's imperial and post-imperial tactics.

UN or not UN (we all know the recent history of shoehorning US/UK verbiage into UN decisions) Britain is in the Gulf as an occupying power and therefore it is reasonable to expect to be hated by the local peoples.

Time to wake up Britain, smell the cofee, pull the curtains and look outside...

Peter, Bromley,

As far as I can see, this article seems to send the message that you can kidnap our servicemen and women with impunity, because we will not defend ourselves, in order not to cause an incident (how very nice of us).

I find this completely irresponsible, especially coming from a former Sea Lord. If I was serving in this force I would refuse to go out on patrol, as it's commanders have deliberately hobbled their own forces by their stupid and irresponsible rules of engagement.

I really do despair for the state of our country. We are now a laughing stock.

And as for it not mattering what our servicemen and women say and do while in captivity, it most certainly does. Only a fool would think that this incident has not caused shame and humiliation to our country and that this hasn't affected how we are perceived in the world.

Andrew, Manchester, England

In an earlier age, no third rate power would have dared to cross the path of the Royal Navy with such impunity. Not only would Britain not be at war with Iran, but Britain would never have seen its national honour so plainly tarnished by the child-like conduct of HM sailors and marines.

David Ruppert, Arlington, Virginia, USA

We should have gone for the destroying the Iranian fleet in ten days option. That would have shown who the men are in the West are - and insured it would not happan again. Two birds one stone!

Mike, Manchester, UK

Apart from the disaster of Blair's massive ego, I have no idea why British troope are involved, and sadly being killed in the war, which seems to have nothing whatsoever to do with the UK. Our troops should be removed immediately, and Blair put on trial for the murder of the unfortunate UK troops who have lost their lives.

Lezli Taubler, London, UK

If Iran is going to kidnap sailors operating in Iraqi waters the only options are to surrender these waters to Iran or to be prepared to open fire. If we are not prepared to open fire one wonders why warships were sent in the first place, and if we are not prepared to sink Iranian vessels, as would appear from this article, we are only inviting more kidnapping if we stay.

David Bannen, Oxford, UK

"Are there no actual men left in the West?" Good question, Kathy. Just remember which country has steadfastly supported the USA throughout the world, not just with words and diplomacy, but with the blood of our young men and women.

Keith Downer, London, UK

Neither Sir Alan or anyone else points out another obvious fact. Assuming the geographical position as shown by Britain and the first Iranian missive is accurate, the Iranians were clearly in Iraqi territorial waters when they made their raid. We, Australians, British, and Americans have responsibilty for those waters until such time as Iraq again has a viable navy. We should be prepared to defend Iraqi territorial waters from intrusion by any other country. Indeed sir, let's make sure it never happens again.

Julius J. Marold, Yokosuka,, Japan

Are there no actual men left in the West? What a pathetic perspecive from one who should know better. This is one of the main reasons why the once Great Britain is no longer.

Kathy Wheeldon, Omaha, NE, USA

20-20 hindsight! Whose fault is it then that these servicemen were insufficiently trained? The new 1st Sea Lord or his predecessor, the author, Sir Alan West?

Nelson, Hong Kong, China

Very well said, and authoritatively put, Sir Alan. It would be instructive
to see a lage scale map / chart of the Gulf area in question showing the
'recognized' demarkation line and the actual positions of HMS Cornwall,
the Inspection party and its course from the mother ship, the vessel to be
inspected, and the track of the pirate vessels. With this should be unquestionable
references / substatiation for the co-orninates used.

Keith Dixon, Calgary, Canada

calm down and buy a GPS now...

Mar, Dubli,

At last - someone who knows what he's talking about speaking good old common sense - please take note armchair Rambos!

Homer S, London,