P. Beck...your history is slightly flawed. The Shah of Iran was a pro-Western leader who knew the eventual evils of
fanatical Muslim rule. The US backed him till the end.
The Iranian hostage crisis lasted 444 days because of Jimmy Carter's cowardly response. The students who took over the Embassy intended it to last only several hours, but were encouraged with Carter's lack of a strong immediate ultimatum. Backing Saddam was necessary to counter balance the worse evil an Iranian victory presented. Saddam's Kuwait intentions were not to end there. A total take over of the neighborhood was his goal and had to be stopped. Today's Irag war has virtually dismantled Al Quaida and their ability to strike Western nations. It also places nearely 300,000 of the world's strongest military power right next door to Iran. This same Iran has very real intentions of dominating the Middle East and holding all Western nations hostage with Mid East oil. So think twice before blaming America!

David Fowler, Memphis, TN, USA

I think we should gut the Army like we did the Navy in order to bolster respect from our enemies. This is sensible, top that with the demascualtion of out nation will ensure Iran will not provoke us again

delboy, chester, uk

In my view the reason for invading Iraq was, the removal of brutal dictatorship with the known usage of chemical weapons, promotion of a democrative institutions, promote the development of economic and social programs for the benefit of the Iraqi people

Tommy Franks lead the forces to achieved the first goal easily but the politicians completely messed up later due to arrogance and ignorance.

Into this quamire we have brave soldiers dieing for what! We cannot fixed the countries ethnics difference created by British cartographors lines in the sand.

I say adopt the Baker plan, speak to the neighbouring countries and speed up the process of giving back full security to the Iraqi people.

Pratish, London, UK

Toney Blair knows he has done wrong by joining George Bush in attacking Iraq and killing of thousands of Iraqi civilians and our soldiers. Toney Blair is responsible for may hem in Iraq and should blame himself instead he is panicking and blaming other countries surrounding Iraq. Toney Blair and George Bush are very good at blaming rogue state or the terrorist. We should be thankful the 15 personnel was released unharmed.

Munna, London, UK.

Lessons of History, what about just plain reality? The US and Britain as well as numerous other countries that have become "policemen" What bothers me most is the small slams we both share with each other in these comment pages without realizing that without some sort of interaction, we are back to pre-Iraq war days, 9/11 reality.

The middle East played their hand by creating acts of world terroism, regional power-plays and simple uncivilized behavior. We leave well-enough alone, become all idealistic, then what? I see nothing from the Middle East Leadership that encourages democracy and civillity that wouldn't have us back acting as Police until numerous countires mature. We've made a choice to be there and help because of the consequences if we don't. Post WWII US policy (I can't speak on behalf of Britain), has positioned us to take a leadership role. Without us or countries such as Britain, who steps up? If Iraq, Iran and others acted civilized, we wouldn't be there.

James, Juneau,

Kwame asks, "As things stand now I think the question is, Is Iraq today better than Iraq under Saddam Hussein? I know what the answer of the Americans and the British will be and I know what that of the rest of the world will be."

The opinion of the Americans, the British and the rest of the world do not matter, the views of the Iraqis do matter. A recent ORB poll looked at Iraqi opinion and asked "is Iraq today better than Iraq under Saddam Hussein?". On that point the results were clear, 66% of Shia (49% of all Iraqis) say life is better now, only 6% of Shia (26% of all Iraqis) say it was better before. This is amazing given the violence in part of Iraq and clearly indicates that liberating Iraq was morally correct.

ME, Boulder, CO

In addition to the interesting points above, we might also wonder if the Iranians have been gathering intelligence about UK boarding operations from the captains of the ships boarded. These people could provide Iran with very useful information about the movements and habits of RN boarding parties, whether they follow a routine or a set "beat", and how well armed and trained they appear to be, how well backed up they are, as well as how tough they appear to be and how much resistance they might put up.

It's probably not a coincidence that a naval party, which is unlikely to have received SAS-style training in resistance after capture, was the target of the snatch, and it's certainly not a coincidence that the Iranians moved when they were sure of not coming under observation or fire from a helicopter.

jon livesey, Sunnyvale, CA/US

I think the Admeralty has gone to soft for its own good. I think that in times past the thought of boarding and taking a britsh ship ment an equelly larger pay back so that the ofenders where tought a very hard lesson. I think if england is going to save face there had better never be a next time. And IF there is an attemp on any brit the tables will be turned . You know whats good for the goose is good for the gander as well.

creighton prawat, bremen IN, USA

I second Mark's opinion (first post) - exactly what I wanted to say. Instead of counting the money US spends on the war on terror people should think how much's being spent on financing useless organizations, such as UN in its present state.

Roman, Jacksonville, USA

Where was the British Military Commander in charge of this operation? Why did he take no apparent action to prevent the capture of his troops? Why didn’t he sink the Iranian vessel(s) involved? Will we see an official inquiry to clear the air? Why the deafening silence from the military brass?

Al, Halifax, Canada

You call those Marines? Allowing yourself to be captured and then submitting yourself to the Iranians for the purpose of proprganda is revolting. And then shaking the bastards hand on the way out!!! Disgusting. Those so- called soldiers should be court martialed and sent off to jail. British conduct throughout this whole sorid affair, from top to bottom has been a complete embarrasment to men and women in uniform everywhere.

A. McDonald, weymouth, U.S.A

The whole saga kicked up by UK seems out of proportion as usual, beware of propaganda words used by UK, hostage, kidnapping etc...Since the start till the end, there was no ransom asked by Iran at all!!!!! Not nuclear issue, not their 5 Iranian ACTUAL hostages held by US. Blair government was the one who sent these youngmen and a woman to enter illegal zones ( from illegal war) to collect intelligence on Iran ( now they admit it. Iran has every right to detain them), then denying they 're in Iranian waters ( remember who denied it? It was Blair government, not the actual persons who were there in the waters, so as usual liar such as Blair ). Blair government has lost credibility in all their claims, we've learned since the last few years that British government are quick to deny wrong doings but even quicker to 'condemn' others of imaginative accusations, memory still clear from that dead Brazilian in the tube, 45 mins destruction on Uk from Iraq, sales of Uranium in Nigeria......

NacFiscuss, Paris, France

I wonder where Mr. Urban's London relatives were during the Battle of Britain? Staving off the evil Yanks? Germany, Europe, and Russia would have been better off under Hitler? I suppose the same is true of China and Korea under Hirohito, Romania under Ceausescu, Cambodia under Pol Pot, Russia under Stalin, China under Mao, and Albania under Hoxha?

Mr. Urban, you have the U.S. to thank for your present freedom, as does every other European. Please have the courtesy or at least the intellectual honesty to never forget that.

As for those writers who blame the present war for the civilizational conflict, they too are ignorant of the Mideast events in the 60s, 70s, and 80s which precede current events. This pot has been simmering long before we got there. In fact, it seems to have something to do with the imperialist partitioning of the region by a certain European power which I will not name. But let us begin with what happened in Israel and the Punjab and continue from there.

Michael Karounos, Nashville, TN,

The recent tragic deats in Iraq and investigation of the circumstances of captivity of the 15 in Iranian waters should not obscure investigation into the strange behavior of the British captives. From the news footage we saw inthe U.s., the captives seemed strangely and needlessly submissive, given that clearly they were in the public eye and were not subjected to torture. Yet, it seemed as if the president of Iran became their leader.

One can't help asking if they were experiencing "Stockholm syndrome"... and/or if the dispiritedness one sees in British society contributed to their extremely rapid accession to their captors' views.

1)

Lin, Trenton, USA

According to Mr. Andy, Louisville, USA

'Postmodernism and globalization have so much softened European hearts that Muslims are now exhibiting all manners of madness across the world. '

I think you should replace the word 'muslims' with: 'stupid Americans like me an mah president' .

Sheeva, London,

From here downunder - it sure looks like Britain played it well - although I do believe the British military personnel should have been able to respond with force. Too bad they did not have the weaponry to tell the IRG thugs to shove off. And I do not challenge the soldiers judgment in any way. But I'm wondering why Iraq has not protested the blatant incursion into their territorial waters?

It makes you wonder where the Iranian mullah's and ayatollah's heads are at - Iran is not just a rogue state - it's become a pariah state which begs the question - who runs Iran? Has the government lost control in a country where a fanatical fringe faction can autonomously create an international incident and escalate what is already a Gordian knot into a hellstorm? Imagine what these thugs would do with nuclear weapons. The signs are all there - they would not hesitate to create an atomic fireball.

Thomas Storm, Coolangatta, Australia

Iran's release of the soldiers is but a drop in the sea of utter catastrophic UK's Eastern policies. The death of those four GI's is but a confirmation that matters are still very far from resolution and a lot of more diplomatic efforts should be given if we want to reach a satisfactory ending for all parties involved.

Jesús L. Vieites, Malaga, Spain

The British government has shown an exemplary behaviour throughout the incident. Good thing is that, apparently, moderates in Iran have won this time, and this may lead to overall shift in their internal power balance in favour of moderates like Larijani. Also, Britain has shown respect for human lives and, while having many options, resolved the situation calmly.
Yet I have no doubt - due to the nature of the Iranian regime - that this is not the last Gulf incident of its kind, so the British soldiers should be better equipped and generally prepared. The next time Iranians try to take hostages they should receive adequate response.

Oleg, Minsk,

Tony Blair should consider changing the service name to Royal Savy. Your sailors and marines have superb diplomatic skills, but what about soldiering?

It also seems to me that it was tea time on the HMS Cornwall when the search party was captured by the Iranians.

"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
"Britons never will be slaves." Not any more...

Roy Kirkston, Fairfax, Virginia

Funny how we admire the French Resistance for their acts of bravery and the urders they committed in their fight to rid France of their occupiers, but we condemn the Iraqi resistance fighters.

Their country is illegally occupied by us. No wonder they fight back. If we don't want another dreadful death, just get the hell out.

Laura Roberts, London, UK

PM Blair was correct in giving the goverment of Iran enough rope to hang themself...What to do with 15 service personnel ???...Give them back to the Brits...of course..

T. McCarthy, san marcos, ca usa

It's very simple for me.... If it makes a terrorist happy, I'm dead set against it! I don't know what this world is coming to, when people take the word (and side) of terrorists over the most generous country in the world... the United States. Maybe we SHOUD become isolationists, see if the world likes us better then?

Susan L Anderson, North Branford, CT. USA

This is not a war, we have invaded Iraq and are waiting to invade Iran. All these people who read history please explain how these wars can ever be justified. Don't be so ignorant to think that just because a war fought is by England it is therefore justifiied.

People I know in England whether Christian or Muslim are more concerned by their families welfare not by the 'clash of civilisations'. This is all nonsense, there has always been a threat of terrorism whether the IRA, the Anarchists, German Infraltrators or the Al Qeada threat. To think we live in a special time is both conceited and deluded.

I am an Englishman of the age who will be expected to fight in any war, I and everyone I know will fight if our country or the European union is threatened, we won't however fight for English and American greed. Our serviceman should not be put in harms way, with the strength of our navy we should be patrolling the coasts not foreign waters.

Tony, London,

Hand on Mr Urban

Recall that all civilian losses in American wars have been unfortunate and regretted misjudgements, whereas the Nazis rejoiced after systematically murdering millions of Jews, gypsies and homosexulas.

I assume your definition of "the world" excludes non-Aryans.

Michael Amior, London,

My greatest concern in all these bruhaha is that the worst is yet to come from Iran. Postmodernism and globalization have so much softened European hearts that Muslims are now exhibiting all manners of madness across the world. But I strongly fear that one day a huge "accident" will occur somewhere and a center can no longer hold.

Andy, Louisville, USA

I have long advocated the establishment of a Ministry of Common Sense-long overdue since 1997
But what about an Agency for the Elimination of Incompetence headed by Rory Bremner?

bob holmes, axbridge England,

All this hate/anger..mayhem/murder..is this the world we and our love ones want? Our leadership is safely in the rear let them go to the front, hand to hand eye to eye and you will see how quickly this tragedy will end .We either live or die together , can we not be decent/respectful to one another.What have we turned into? Choose wisly . Thanks

erich kronberger, south bend, USA, IN

looks like we're going to have another clumsy invasion of Iran exactly the same as Iraq. Would historians in government be able to stop the same mistakes made throughout history happen again? Probably not I suppose, they would just get ignored as well.

Danny, Glasgow,

We were in Vietnam so that the Communists wouldn't take over the country and murder millions of people out of hand, as they did after we were forced to pull out. Almost 5 million souls were murdered in concentration camps by Pol Pot and Ho Chi Minh because we didn't stay and protect them.

It doesn't seem that we've learned anything from that lesson, as we shouldn't have gone to Iraq, and now shouldn't pull out.

Robert, Houston, TX

A perfect post, Philip. What is it going to take for the Europeans to take Islamic Extremism seriously? I guess the Madrid and London bombings weren't enough, Bali, etc. etc.

Britain's first blunder was letting its soldiers get captured, and while I rejoice that they are safe, Blair's comments about "new lines of dialog with Iran" now being open because of Tehran's kidnapping of the sailors was the UK's second blunder...Blair's comments completely legitimize the operation in the eyes of the extremist world.

Kyle, New York /NY, New York/USA

It is a pity that another four British beings was killed by the Iraqi terrorists. But why not take what you do and why you are in Iraqi in consideration-the Iraqi War is over but there still be no proof on the Iraq's development of the Massive Destructive Weapons. So why you are still there. See what you, stired by the meddling US on this issue, did on this ancient-highly-civilized nation.

It is obviously a soft time for your economy. Why not take this in a more focused place. As Lincoln said, (a good government is) of the people, by the people and for the pepole. I thought you did a good job, from which our government ought to learn. But that can be better.

People's well-being come first.

Adonis Xi, Guangzhou,, China

The Iraq war is illegal! Why does the UK send their young to help?
In the future, let Bush Jr. fight his owns personal wars alone!

joseph R. LoBianco, Baton Rouge, Lousisana, USA

To Jason's post. On the contrary, it is violence stemming from Islamic believers that is fueling the current tensions in the Middle East. Just look at the Sunni/Shia genocide acts that are happening in Iraq. Where is your condemnation of that horrific situation? We are witnessing Islam's darkest hour! It has nothing to do with America, UK, Bush or Blair. One only has to read a history of Islam to understand that violence is at it's very beginning. And, Islamic history does not differ that much from Judeo-Christian history wherein lots of stories of murder, treachery, lust, adultery, war, etc. run throught the books of the Torah and Bible. If you desire peace and religious tolerence, please speak up! Playing the blame game will not save anyone's limbs, life or allow them freedom of worship.

Lane, Halibut Cove, Alaska

Calm down Hamid. Just how much intel can you find out from the middle of a waterway anyhow? Besides, it can't have been very good intel, otherwise this situation would never have arose. But are you (and many others on this board) really suggesting that we shouldnt keep an eye on the Iranians? Please. They are NOT to be trusted. You need to wake up friend.

steve g, sao paulo, Brasil

It is understandable that a generation reared in a climate of stability, security and prosperity will go to any lengths to avoid conflict. During the period between the two World Wars which saw the unfettered emergence of the Nazi regime and fascist governments in Europe, decisions were being taken by people who had been badly scarred by the horrors of modern warfare. Leaders like Churchill were scorned as war-mongers, their warnings of dangers posed by Hitler and Mussolini ignored. It takes great courage and stubbornness to buck the trend, to stand up and argue that people such as President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad could turn our planet into a nuclear wasteland in the name of Islam. In this age of political correctness, of appeasement to those nations that covertly or otherwise support Islamic terrorism, no-one wants to hear that their comfortable world could be destabilised unless united and determined nations of the Western world stand together.

Keith Downer, London, UK

I believ your country and armed forces should be alert and aware of militant Argentine eyes cast towards the Falklands. Unfortunatly Mr Blair is no Ms Thatcher and your Navy not what it was in 1982.

J Hudson, Coppell, texas,U S A

Donald from Oxford, your statement is complete nonsense. You can't compare WW2 to the Iraqi war. The US and UK arent trying to take over and occupy Iraq as Hitler was trying to take over England. The quicker security is established the quicker everyone can go home. Please for the love of god would you people stop saying America is destroying country after country, you sound foolish. Here is the difference, America wants to eliminate terroist threats before they reach our soil. Other countries want to hope and pray that they will go away. Obviously your hoping and praying hasnt done squat for terrorism. Hence the train bombing in Madrid, London explosions? Want can't anyone understand that. Again, probably more anti-American rhetoric, like P Beck's comments from London. Sorry P Beck, I wish we were perfect like you and the rest of the world. America is as powerful as is it because we don't follow in the rest of the worlds footsteps, and that probably just angers you.

Chris, Tampa, USA

Not to belittle a group of people or a culture, but when you take away the only resource that gives them power and that would be oil, they are only left with two things. Homicide bombers, and an over induldgence in pride. The only reason these people are literate is so they can read the Koran, which could be taken as "hate speech" in the U.S. When a relgion treats it people as cannon fodder as it did during the Iraq-Iran war and relives the past as modern day Barbari pirates, what to do you expect in return. Talk about history revolving. I guess this is pointless to point out as everybody is more concerned with Nicole's baby daddy, Brit's new hairless style, and who needs to be voted off of American idol. From the land of Hollywood's cattle

Prof. Spook, voltron, USSA

It's the West's anti-Islam paranoia that is fueling the current tension in the Middle East. Aren't the American and British there in Iraq because of a war that the UN did not sanction in the first place? Why is Iran being threatened with war for unproven intent to build nuclear arms, when Israel and North Korea (amongst others) get off lightly for developing possessing them without international supervision?

Jason, Singapore,

To Mr. P. Beck's post:

It is amazing how a short sense of history you have... the foundation for the current volatility in the Mideast was caused by the British imperial policies of the 19th and early 20th centuries... it was that once "great empire" that stirred-up the slumbering beehive of Arab nationalism and Islamic radicalism and brought it to the forefront of today's headlines... I am saying the US is blameless... but it inherited a swarming menace that knows no limits of violence or extremism...

PS: henceforth the RN should refrain from any rendition of "Rule, Britannia" - obviously in its current state iy cannot en "rule" a couple of dinghies..

M I, Miami, USA

dear all, if we dont make any complaint or dont find it worrying when our government make cuts to the numerical strength and capability of our navy then we dont have much excuse to moan about being humilliated in great waters. there are consequences when cuts are made to existing forces and there will be even greater consequences if our government fails to honour the promises it made to the royal navy in the 1997 s.d.r. (the new aircraft carriers and aircraft and people to operate from them).

steven page, walsall, west mids

Sounds like the time to keep a few AWACS in the air over the Gulf 24/7 and direct some UK/USA strike planes to overfly every Iranian ship that comes near the demarcation line.

Our inspection ships may not have the firepower to fight a couple of Iranian boats off, but Im betting a Harrier/F18 could handle the job nicely =)

Kevin, Phoenix, AZ/USA

Dear Editor
When if ever will Toni Blair keep a promise to bring our forces home from the hell hole that is Iraq
The Iraqis are now worse off than before we went in,, they would make more of an effort if we were not there,, they do not want us to remain
Blairs promises are as usless as a chocolate teapot if a member of his family was there he would understand the anxiety the families of our troops feel.He sends our boys and girls into this danger and he is not in the least concerned whether they come back injured or not at all ,,this is a proven fact ,the lack of care they receive in NHS hospitals having in some cases to pay for their own treatment is absolutely disgraceful he should be ashamed and not ever be able to sleep at night he will go down as the worst PM in our history hoping for him and his usless party to go ASAP toni nottm

S mann, Nottingham, notts

as an iranian opposed to the regime(like most of my countrymen ) i should express anger n regret for western countries treatin so softly with this regime..we iranians r upset by iraq war cuz it has made USA not able to invade our regime anymore..do u british ppl know ur country s among few countries where there s delegacy office of our supreme leader in?we believe europians sharing with the regime in smashing iranian ppl...we r so worried about democrats in USA and the time mr. Bush s leaving the white house.there s a cruel rgime here n we need more pressure from outside to be able to overthrow it.

persian, tehran, iran

Clearly, K Urban does not read enough world history. "Vietnam was destroyed..."? You may want to look at their economic situation since the end of that war. And while you're at it, look also into the horrendous violence that was visited upon the South Vietnamese people by the Communist regime in the North.

"Better off under the Nazis..." You may actually want to read books about that war as well (there are many), especially about the Nazi's campagin against your own country; oh, and also what happened after the U.S. finally entered that war ( and how many lives it lost liberating Europe).

It's easy to take shots at the U.S. when you are living in relative comfort enjoying your tea and Black 'n Tans, while the sentry at the guard post, so to speak (the U.S.), stands post.

Books are a wonderful thing. You may want to read a few!

Jay Warren, New York, New York

This is nothing more than willful ignorance and contrarianism on the part of Europe and the west in the way they act or react towards tin pot dictators, islamofascist tyrants, and religious zealots. Are Europeans and westerners in general so cowed by these 6th century, backwards, sub-human killers, that you would allow your political correctness to literally see your demise because you won't call evil out for what it is? Instead you turn inwards and reflect on your faults while ignoring the glaring misdeeds against you and for what? To ausage your fake sense of guilt that is cloaked in a veneer of not appearing to be aggressors fighting for your very lives? My how Europe and the west have traveled down the road of decadency and cowardice when a mouse can now strike fear through media manipulation against the elephant of the west.

Margaret Thatcher must be grinding her teeth at seeing her once proud country reduced to the level of thumb-twiddling worry warts.

Martin Riggs, San Diego, USA / California

I'm with the USA through thick and thin. (well, almost. I'm glad I stayed out of that Vietnam mess) After all, we have the Special Relationship (which means that I'll stick with the democracy that thinks much like I do, has all the guns and came along to help during two world wars, not of it's own making.)
But I do wish they were a little less impetuous. 'Tomahawk' policy has not done any good at all, just as sixteen inch battleship shells into the broken down tenaments of Lebanon must have stored up an awful lot of resentment. And all the solutions applied to the Middle East over the past half century seem to have resulted in greater ones.
It would be well to remember that Britain's great success in the past, was due to their ability to make friends, rather than defeat enemies and, also; Communism was opposed by unprecedented masses of munitions but fell in the bloodless contest with Western Culture.
John Cullen, Liverpool

John Cullen , Cork (ex Liverpool), Ireland

To Erich Kronberger: Your words are wise and true, but -most regrettably- you stand almost alone in a sea of blood surrounded by people wanting more blood. The only difference between all the mad wars of the past and the present is the choice of weapons. You are asking why most of the world acts in this mad way? Regrettably, the answer is easy: money ! There is no money to be made from peace, but lots of money to be made from war, 'police actions', armed conflicts of any kind. Why is G. Bush (even against the will of more and more enlightened Americans) still insisting on slaughtering Iraqis, Iranians, Afghanis, even UK and US soldiers? Because he and his family (through the Carlyle Group with his family as a major investor in weapons and ammunitions) make money on every round shot, every shell fired, every conflict started! Why stop a good money-making machine? He will continue this and any other madness until he has to vacate the White House in Jan. 2009. THAT answers your question.

P Beck, London,

so for all you canuck and Brits commenting, a thief comes into your house steals your wife, holds out that she is rightfully his, and then gives her back as a "gift", and you think its' your fault. or that your marriage was illegal. If this is the type of logic your education systems are producing, your attempt at health care is understandable. Beyond the lack of moral clarity, historical accuracy, and democratic ideals the whining isolationism suggested in these posts should let the Rwandas and Darfurs manifest themselves, the North Koreas' starving millions to build a bomb, or Israels' be threatened with annihilation, Societies that offer no hope, prosperity, or sanctity threaten those whose sweat and equity feeds, clothes, heals and educates themselves and their citizens and dares offer those same freedoms on an equal basis. It doesn't supprise me that citizens who can't implement integration would oppose any county or culture getting its equal chance to stand free.

sdp, Columbus, Ohio

Why don't the British and the Americans come together and issue a jont apology for their past crimes and injustices against Arab and muslim countries. If they don't do this, then it is understandable that people in the middle east will continue to mistrust and hate the British and Americans.

For example people might not know that one of the main reasons why the Islamic Revolution in Iran occurred was because of the oppression of a dictator friendly to the West, who the CIA helped to take control, after they had helped to overthrow a democratically elected Iranian governmnet.

I believe that the supporting the democratically elected government of Iraq is the right thing to do, but nonetheless I understand those who fight against the West.

An apology would begin rebuilding trust between the West and muslims and make the middle east a much more peaceful and secure place.

Usman Ali, London, UK

Reading the "fine-print" in the news today, I am completely dismayed by the British government. The "innocent" sailors in "Iraqi" waters were actually "taking intelligence" information on Iran, probably in "Iranian Waters".
As an Iranian I gave lots of support to the British sailors. In retrospect I feel like they should have been put on trial for espionage.
Enough is enough!

Hamid, Toronto, Canada

K Urban - Iran takes British hostages and you blame the United States. Good logic. As for US destroying country, after country, you may want to look in the mirror.

Dave, Washington, DC, USA

Mr. Blair is trying to save his position.

Jim , london,

As things stand now I think the question is, Is Iraq today better than Iraq under Saddam Hussein? I know what the answer of the Americans and the British will be and I know what that of the rest of the world will be.

The world is a mad place and will continue to be as long as we have leaders of countries like US, Iran and Israel and timid leaders from the rest of the world willing to blindly follow them.

Kwame Boadu Kissi, Amsterdam,

I think people forget that the United States has liberated more people from ruthless dictators than any other Nation in the world,and if you would want to live under a Hitler than go to Sudan or Iran and live under those regimes and injoy.Boy what a loss of memory people have of the past and it is the lack of memory that is killing us from doing what is right in bringing down these ruthless dictators who would rather kill for their power to maintain their sick ideology.People,wake up or we will see a different world and I would dare to say you won't like what you see.
Selective blindness will throw this world into caos if we don't wake up soon.

kirk, iowa city, Ia.

Philip Devlin: what is your definition of sponsoring terrorism? Murdering 600,000 Iraqis via an illegal invasion based on lies? Overthrowing the democratically elected government of Iran and imposing a dictatorial Shah? Sponsoring insurgent groups inside Iran? Financing Saddam Hussein to wage a war against Iran at the cost of 1 million lives? How many countries has Iran invaded? How many times has Iran used chemical weapons against a civilian population (as the USA did in Fallujah)? How many Guantanamo prisons does Iran operate? How many secret prisons does Iran operate? How about the Iranian diplomats that USA soldiers kidnapped in Iraq? You guys complain of terrorism while ignoring your own government's actions. If the Western governments jut left Iran alone rather than undermining it at every opportunity, it probably would not have a reason to seek nuclear weapons or "sponsor terrorism."

Vincent, Mosciw, Russia

K Urban claims the US is "destroying country after country" and is "only going to start to make the world wonder whether they would have been better off under the Nazis."

Riiiight. The world would be much better of if the US had not defeated facism, communism and slavery. It would be dandy if the US has not liberated Kuwait, Afghanistan and Iraq. Think about, during a single presidenti term (Bush II) it has liberated close to 60 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan and brought two new democracies to the middle east.


There is something to respect

ME, Boulder, CO

It never ceases to amaze me that our government holds the life of our service men and women in such high value that she ignores the plight of the unfortunate Iraqi children and women killed by the UK and USA invasions. Least we forget, the service men and women in Iraq are enemy forces and are legitimate targets for eliminations. Whether or not the Iranians are involved are immaterial. During WWII, the British regulary assisted the French underground in sabotaging the German military targets. I see no difference this time. The Iranians are just helping their fellow muslims to fight the Holy war against the British and American invaders.

Donald, Oxford,

How deeply ironic that we managed to save 15 of our troops from the 'claws' of the Iranians, the same people whom many Americans and some Brits call the most evil in the region while Bush's and Blair's supposed democratically-governed "allies" and "friends", the Iraqis, have just killed four of our boys.

My profound condolences to the families of the four British troops killed in Basra.

Hillblogger3, Brussels, Belgium

Stop beings so wussy...Britain chose this filthy war by deception and lies and has abetted the murder of 300,000 Iraqui civilians...if you don't like it...LEAVE!

John Hanna, Taoyuan, Taiwan

Oh dear, what a mess, this wasn’t supposed to happen. Saddam was the bogeyman, and now it turns out that Iran was the enemy after all. Our dunce of a prime minister sold it to us that the world would be a much safer place once Saddam was removed. Many academics disagreed and warned of the unknown consequences in taking the lid off of the cauldron that is Iraq. Now the public are being manipulated into another war.

Stan, The Home Counties,

england should not withdraw its soldiers from iraq.the coutry is full of violence and terrorism ,and out of control,which its caused by american and england. the two big powers should take some responsibilities,and let iraq go to normal.

tommy, shanghai, china

Wow, as a Canadian, I still look to the British Military as the world's premier fighting force. The American Military of course has the toys and the latest and greatest, and hits harder than anyone I believe, but it is Britain's understanding of History and Her past place in the world that makes Her and Her fighting Forces Credible. Dicipline, Steadfastness, Resolve. Britania Stands, I hope. Pull it together please, probably better not to have fired on the kidnapping forces to avoid escalation, but please no public bickering, make a plan and act accordingly in future. Proper precautions could have detered the Iranian operation in the first place.

Donny, Canada,

The current president of ran is in power only because of the American threat to the country. He would have lost the last elections if it wasn't because of American and European hostile politics, which justified his anti-Western paranoia.
And anyway, were the sailors spying on Iranian borders? Is that not, like, a crime for which they could have been judged there?

David , coventry,

Until the Western Nations begin fighting like this is a real war and not some politically correct excercise in crowd control Iran will continue to make fools of the "infidels" until they have their nukes and deploy them at their leisure.

Richard , Woodbridge, USA NJ

They got returned intact ...
Nobody gave Iran anything ...
We applied pressure instead.
The lesson is not to give in to this sort of stuff; but,
to ... PUNISH IT ...
When Iran's, or any other, government acts badly,
we need to respond NOT with appeasement; but,
with consequences.
When our officials do wrong we can vote them out.
When Iran's officials do wrong, we can stand behind ours.

Ed, Ellenton, US / FL

Combine Gulf Naval forces, share Intel.
Plot coordinates.
GPS.
Max firepower.
Scrap classified info.
Have air strike force over Gulf.
Harriers in Basra area.
Retrain Naval forces.

stephen russell, La Canada, CA USA

thank god for ronald regan,he and dick chaney then working in the defence department required 5 inch guns on all surface combat ships.our comanders would have never allowed our marines to be taken hostage without pulling the trigger.what ever happened to name,rank and serial nunber?you britts.better beef up your military and train your marines to keep their mouths shut..

david, denver, usa colorado

All this hate/anger..mayhem/murder..is this the world we and our love ones want? Our leadership is safely in the rear let them go to the front, hand to hand eye to eye and you will see how quickly this tragedy will end .We either live or die together , can we not be decent/respectful to one another.What have we turned into? Choose with wisdom . Thanks

erich kronberger, south bend, USA, IN

I hope the Iranins never stray into American territorial waters because all they could expect would be torture and many years in an American concentration camp.Quantanimo

sam stuart, aberdeen, scotland

Hang on Mr Devlin

I am a big fan of many aspects of the US.

But the US destroying country after country is only going to start to make the world wonder whether they would have been better off under the Nazis.

The devastating results have been similar.

(Vietnam was destroyed, their people mutilated by bombs and carcinogens - for what reason?)

We look forward to a US that we can all respect.

K Urban, London, UK

To Liam Fox: Find out and publish the names of those in 'Whitehall' who "repeatedly turned down" requests for more firepower to protect Britain’s UN-mandated patrols in the Gulf. Find out who, in effect, is putting lives in danger through mis-management.

michael clarke, london, uk

As long as the United Nations remains the World's Toothless Wonder, we will be plagued by the likes of Iraq and Iran. People need to remember that the UN spent ten years trying to get Iraq to comply with its unanimous security resolutions...and if not for the UN's pervasive and persistent incapacity to enforce its mandates, the United States would not have the situation it does now in Iraq. For these same issues, we can expect the UN to fail with Iran and for Iran to give us all the grief it can muster.

Mark, Odessa, Ukraine

Yet another Iraninan made IED (improvised exsplosive device) in the middle of Iraq, the world should wake up to the fact that Iran is aiding in the deaths of soilders and civilians in Iraq and around the world, AND trying to make a nuclear capabillity for its self!!!!! time to wake up and smell the coffee people before it is far to late to react.

Les, york, uk

I'm with phil on this one. Raise the standard of teaching for the ill educated academia!

Rose Stoners, Hampshire, UK

It's good that all newspapers writes different. Here is written : Iran takes hostage". On mail.ru news blog written "Iran made a gift not to only a British goverment and Britons...". Iran goverment even gave sweets to their "hostages". How mr.Blair can be so ungrateful? What did britons in Iran waters. It's a lie that they wasn't there. But every briton and espesialy american thinks only like them need, and no one of them cares about the truth. Of course everyone has own truth, but anyway... people has to be more kind,more honestly and manhood.It's needed to be manhood to admit guilt.

Khamidullin Radik, Moscow (Kazan), Russia

Fruits of an illegal, unethical, ill thought of war

Prasad, Mumbai, India

One action that should be taken immediately is for the few kidnapped soldiers who resisted their captors to be awarded for their valour. Clearly those who made apologies on Iranian TV, waved and smiled on command, etc... did not have the training and orders to resist the kidnappers' demands to play into their propaganda. I would not criticize them but rather the Navy's lack of preparation which allowed this to happen. The soldiers who bravely resisted the kidnappers should be commended and the issue of where exactly the incident took place must now be investigated thoroughly and without fear. Ahmadinijaad's speech contained honest grievances against the West, but none that would excuse an intrusion into Iraqi territory for the purpose of kidnapping, or for the well-documented backing of terrorism in Iraq and elsewhere. I was impressed with the balance of patience and firmness struck by Tony Blair and co. but it is time now to proove exactly what happened and then respond appropriately.

Jesse Smith, American in London, UK

They know what we will do and act on that knowledge. And They know that is they keep killing people we will want to get out. That is what we keep telling them on T.V. Is it not. They do not care how many they kill, how they kill, or how long it takes. THEY just want to WIN. SO SHOULD WE.

Shirley E Maunz, liberty center, ohio U.S.A.

All this hate/anger..mayhem/murder..is this the world we and our love ones want? Our leadership is safely in the rear let them go to the front, hand to hand eye to eye and you will see how quickly this tragedy will end .We either live or die together , can we not be decent/respectful to one another.What have we turned into? Choose wisly . Thanks

erich kronberger, south bend, USA, IN

it's easier to blame these incidents on Iran, they might have been behind some of them, but remeber this is a civil war, the best option would be to take off the military fatigues and patrol in civilian clothes and have the helicopters give cover and protection from above.

LLcoolj, Los Angeles, usa/cali

You have chosen dishonor over war.
You shall have both.
- Winston Churchill

Santiago Matamoros, Singapore, Singapore

My heart-felt sympathies to the relatives of the four soldiers who died. To Mr. Devlin and all others, however, a crash course in 20th-century history: Up until the mid-70s, the U.S. was quite happy doing business with the Shah of Persia. When he became too powerful for US-liking, they supported the opposition in form of Ayatollah Khomeini in Paris. After the Shah was dethroned in 1979, however, the Americans had to realize that Khomeini was a religious fanatic and the hostage crisis ensued. So the U.S. started supporting (financially and militarily) one Saddam Hussein, who went to war with Iran at a horrendous cost to both sides. When Hussein enlisted the help of the Kuwaitis in exchange for some oil-wells, the Kuwaitis reneged on the deal, but kept the oilwells, so Hussein invaded them. The Kuwaitis then called the U.S. for "help", so the U.S. kicked Hussein out of Kuwait. Then Hussein was declared a 'menace', and now the whole region is on fire. Why? Look no further than America...

P Beck, London,

I seem to be missing something, but if Blair is upset that 4 Bristish soldiers have died and finds Iran responsible, (no proof provided, much like his WMD) then maybe he should wonder what Iraq's may be feeling about the strife that Bush and himself have brought upon Iraqi civilians

Ramli Mohamed, Colombo,

"Is the academia that ill educated that they won't/don't learn from history?"

Correct!

Most scholars in academia strive for change against the status-quo of our past and present. They feel that by ignoring the lessons of history, they can be liberated to experiment with the future regardless of the consequences it may have for mankind.

John Washburn, Houston, TX

The lesson from this episode is that occupying a foreign country on trumped-up evidence of weapons of mass destruction is not a viable long-term strategy.

Much better to reduce demand for oil in the West.

Alfred, Ryde, Isle of Wight, UK

Whatever happend to Royal Brittania?

Gary, Tallahassee, Florida

It is time that the world understands that placating the very regimes that sponsor and or carry-out terrorist acts do nothing more than ligitimize there depraved actions. It seems to me that in there want to avoid war or conflict of any sort they are willing to engage in politics that led to the German occupation of most of Europe, and this was only 70 years ago. Is the academia that ill educated that they won't/don't learn from history?

Philip Devlin, Severn / Md, USA