Michael Evans, Defence Editor
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MI5 is adopting tactics used by the police to keep tabs on paedophiles and other sex offenders to monitor the activities of known or suspected Islamic extremists, The Times has learnt.
The threat from radicalised young Muslims is growing at such a rate that MI5 has realised that it needs the help of police officers on the streets to help it keep a check on extremists in their areas.
The police keep track of known paedophiles by collating sightings of them and noting whom they meet and which areas they frequent — a tactic that MI5 sees as ideal for keeping track of the movements of Islamic extremists.
Thousands of police officers on the beat in areas with large Pakistani communities — such as Birmingham, Leeds and London — will be expected to keep a lookout for young Muslims known to have become radicals.
The information gathered from day-to-day observations will be used to compile a comprehensive database of lower-level extremism. This register will help both MI5 and the police.
However, there are thousands of other radicalised young Muslims from countries such as Pakistan, North Africa and Somalia about whom there is no intelligence linking them to terrorist groups.
Because of limited resources, they are not regarded as a priority for MI5 when there are so many others who are known to be affiliated to terrorist networks in Britain and, in many cases, actually to be plotting attacks. The fear is that young Muslims who are being radicalised may be persuaded to support the cause of the terrorists.
MI5 has built up an extensive archive of extremist activities, according to security sources. But its surveillance officers have time to focus only on those posing a terrorist threat.
Security sources say that monitoring extremists is only part of the drive to deal with the growing challenge of a younger generation of Muslims, most of them of Pakistani origin, being suborned into supporting terrorism.
The security and intelligence services are relying on the Government to come up with policies and funds that will help Muslim communities, providing jobs, decent homes and social welfare support to dissuade the young from becoming extremists.
The threat from home-grown Islamic extremism and terrorism, largely emanating from British Pakistanis, is a relatively recent phenomenon. The terrorist threat in Britain before the 9/11 attacks in the US was principally viewed as coming from Algerians, Moroccans and other North Africans.
Since 2001, and particularly since the July 7 suicide bombings in 2005, MI5 has been collecting as much information as possible about Muslim radicalisation in this country.
However, security sources emphasised that the new approach — contributing towards the police’s existing “Rich Picture” project, which is aimed at uncovering young Muslims being groomed for terrorism — did not mean that MI5 was targeting the Muslim communities in Britain.
This is a highly sensitive issue, especially as Muslim leaders have accused MI5 and the police of using all their resources to spy on their communities.
Both MI5 and the police insist they want clerics and other Muslim leaders to help them to stamp out extremism and actively seek their cooperation. The security sources said that it was a matter for individual police forces to decide how to prioritise their resources in keeping track of Islamic extremists. But the aim was to enable the police in their areas to know of the whereabouts of extremists.
“This is a new approach and we hope that police officers will understand that the job of countering terrorism and extremism is not just for MI5 and the police special branch but can be carried out by traditional police methods,” one security source said.
Sensitive intelligence about terrorist suspects is shared with Special Branch and with regional intelligence cells. This level of cooperation has improved in recent months, with the setting up of eight regional MI5 offices, sharing Special Branch premises, in Scotland, the North East, North West, the East and West Midlands, South West, Wales and South East.
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What is written is right for writer and as a Muslim I can only smile :). Just be rational and find reasons that why so called muslims doing un ethical and totally opposite of teaching of Islam. We all are responsible for their actions not the Islam. For knowledge, Islam was never spread with force. Islam spread only after people saw the conduct of true Muslims, many decades ago. One more thing, during war Islam teaches not to cut a tree if its not in your way, go around it than how this religion will allow people to blow themselves and kill woman, children, elderly, man i.e. living beings. Islam doesnot allow. Whoever is involve in this kind of act they are not muslim, neither following teaching of Islam. Its my view. According to me nobody likes different view, we want all to be like our views. Here problem arises, Islam has different views so nobody likes it and Islam has its own unique way. I respect everyone views but do reasearch before saying anything to any religion or person.
Earth Man, London,
I did notice that there were no Baptists in the group that flew airplanes into the World Trade Center towers on 9-11. And I have not heard of any Catholics in the group involved in blowing up busses in London. And little has been reported on Presbyterians involved in the attack on trains in Spain. I wish more 'behavior profiling' would be incorporated into the USA applications. Freedom is not free - there must be a certain amount of personal privacy given up in the name of safety and protection from radicals.
Dudley Caswell, Herndon, USA
the sheep are 'barking' at the sheepdogs.
When the wolf comes to their door, they will not have the time or the experience to sort the real sheepdogs from sociopaths who pretend to be sheepdogs, and they will be tempted to give their sheep freedoms to whoever promises safety from the wolves. therein lies to real danger.
stand with your Sheepdogs oh sheep, or be eaten by wolves or false sheepdogs.
clancy, washington dc, USA
For those that argue that the actions of the British state have caused a violent reaction from Muslims is not being accurate with the issue or themselves. I agree the actions of the British government have not helped the situation but I would rather they take a stand than placate and appease. I think the problem here is the fallacy of cum hoc ergo propter hoc. Look the the world today, and with almost any conflict you will see one common denominator, Islam. Whether it is against the USA, India, the riots in France, the civil war in Thailand, the struggle in Ethiopia, Nigeria etc. etc. What would be the most logical explanation? Global conspiracy or some innate problems with Muslim culture in integration?
Jon, Toronto, Canada
If you think this sort of "tracking" is going to to stop with
"extremist" Muslims, you're living in a dreamworld. Let your
politicians get away with this, and soon (if they're not already) they'll be monitoring anyone who doesn't actively support the regime as an "extremist" and potential terrorist. But what am I saying? If RFID chips in trashcans and talking surveillance cameras on streetcorners weren't enough of a warning, I don't guess this will worry people either.
David M. Schmidt, Greenville, USA
Galen- so ALL Muslims should now be targetted? so when Ian Huntley killed those 2 school girls, would it now be legitimate to tag every white man in the country? I also find it ironic you mock Muslims yet you claim to live in Saudi!
If we're not careful we will blindly fall into the trap of state sponsored persecution- much like Hitler adopted towards the Jews.
If we're tracking extremists- why is nothing being done about the biggests extremists of them all- Bush and Blair? in the last 2 years they've caused more wars than any other country.
Sam, Manchester, UK
Of course the placards are unacceptable.Most of these people of are young kids, disaffected and frin an economically/educational disadvantaged background. Second generation immigrants trying to make sense of what's going on whilst having been experienced rejection/racism in their upbringing.
Terrorism is wrong. And the stereotyping of muslims as hating Britain is too easy. Legitmises the Islamaphobia which is evident in some of these posts.
Omar, London, UK
I AM a proud born and bred Englishman ................................
I AM BROWM...........................................
I AM A MUSLIM.......................................
I LOVE my country ......I love my people i am proud of the best social and welfare system in the world, the best justice system in the world the list can go on and on.....
I apose all forms of terrorism.
I HATE THE WAR IN IRAQ, i strongly apose it
I HATE TO SEE ALL THE SUFFERING OF INNOCENT PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD.
I DONT AGREE WITH ALL OUR govenments policies.
Does this make ME less BRITISH THAN ANYBODY ELSE or is this just an excuse because the real problem is my colour or my religion.
WE NEED TO THINK LONG AND HONESTLY..........
THIS IS THE VIEW OF THE AVERAGE BRITISH MUSLIM and i feel very scared , isolated and sad at the fact that people think i am any less BRITISH. or worse the enemy within............
MAT, LEEDS,
The chap from LA (usa) was rightly horrified to read the content of placards displayed by Muslims on the streets of UK
So too were the true Brits and the police who took no action at the time.
What the LA fellow doesnt realise, is that here fanatical Muslims, hating our way of life and freedom of speech, are able to take full advantage of our tolerant PC laws.
The consequence is that we and other European nations face a growing and potentially dangerous culture clash.
Europeans are generous and tolerant people but if immigrants wont accept the way of life we enjoy and have fought to achieve they will find our tolerance has its limits and sadly the problem will become explosive.
Many express their discomfort now, but they are the incomers and if they dont like our ways, they must accept them - or they should go.
tw, shrewsbury, uk
Britain should open a prison on a remote island like Falkland islands and then deport these extremists there. stop being so weak.
alvare, paris, france
The people who brandish placards like this should lose their right to this country's hospitality and be deported. If they dislike the UK so much, they are very welcome to go and live in an Islamic country like Iran. Freedom of speech like this against the host country would not be tolerated there.
No other religion demonstrates such intolerance of others and threatens death at the slightest criticism. It is simply an unacceptable religion in today's society.
C. Armstrong, Manchester, UK
How very ironic that such methods are being employed in this context. The founder of Islam (pbuh) married a six year old girl (Aisha) and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old. At this time he was in his fifties.
Mike Wood, Bradford, UK
As long as this country continues its colonial legacy and invades , attacks , terrorises, kills innocent muslim men, women and children youth are going to react and want revenge. This is where it is easy for extremists to condition these youth. The biggest recruitment tool for these angry youth is not these 'circus acts' that we see on tv. ie fake showpiece so called mullahs and shieks.
The biggest tool is sky bbc cnn reporting daily on the hour body counts of innocent muslims dying, how long is this going to go on for?. This is the real down to earth honest reality. not all this rubbish that the government is conditioning us with. The real issue is oil arms and money. The old requirements for the colonial legacy to continue.I think the people of this country have to wake up and smell the reality of whats going on . How much more destruction of innocent people? how much more innocent blood is going to be spilt?.
At the end of the day state terrorism breeds individual terrorism.
max hastings, Southhampton, England
well a response to amanda,thats right people who do not like britain must leave ,but what about people who do not like iraq or middleeastern,why do they stuck there or poke their nose repeatedly they too should get out from there and take there hatred propaganda and illfeelings from there,
And to John,well all the terrorists are muslims,I disagree with you,terrorism means invading other countries on one pretext or the other,in the name of imposed democracy,butchering muslims in their homeland,branding them terrorist if they fight back,cant u call americans and your britishers terrorist who killed millions in japan,vietnam,India(1857,1947)why dont you call these butchers or murderers as christian terrorist,why dont you call france a christian terrorist who routed morocco,algieria,tunisia for years.
ahmed, hyderabad, india
'Rich picture' project?? I know the Brits have a great sense of humor but guys, this is no time for jokes. The enemy has reached your land and you are talking about giving him better food and shelter??
Remeber, this is not a fight between the rich and the poor; this is a fight between two ideologies and one ideology has to be killed for the other to survive.
It may sound ironic to some, coming from a non-British national, but I strongly believe that BNP may have better solutions to this monster of a problem.
Ashish Deodhar, Mumbai, India
The chap from LA (usa) was "horrified to read the placards proudly held by Muslims at the demos that shocked the true Brits of this country.
Unfortunately what he does't realise, is that we are slowing being encouraged to accept that sort of behavior - if not we are accused of being politically incorrect.
It's not just in the UK - other European counties also face this problem. Like it or not - we have a cultural clash here with many of the Muslims in Europe. Europeans are very tolerant people but if our culture isn't accepted by the immigrants, that tolerance will snap.
tw, shrewsbury, uk
The fact of the matter is:
Not all Muslims are terrorists
BUT up till now all the terrorists have been Muslim.
I therefore fail to understand why reasonable Muslims are upset that the Police and Intelligence services concentrate their efforts within the Muslim community. When we had Irish terrorists blowing up London did any body complain that efforts were concentrated within the Irish community?
John, Reading, UK
Why do we glorify blowing people up with the name "terrorism"- we should call it what it is - "murder". The political ideology behind it does not ameliorate or mitigate it- it's murder- and a "murderer" is a lot less glamorous a title than a "terrorist" or "freedom fighter".
Whatever happened to "When in Rome..." ? If people don't like Britain, they should leave and take their ungrateful and treacherous attitudes with them.
Amanda Jenkins, London, UK
Monitoring the activities of Islamic extremists is good but it sounds like treating a symptom rather than the root cause. I sincerely do think that the government should be more concerned with discouraging the radicalisation of young Moslems. How do we encourage young Black and Asian men to aspire to be at their best for Britain rather than be in the news for all the wrong reasons? How do we make them believe that their primary allegiance is to UK and not to an ideology that encourage them to destroy human lives? Government should involve role models in community and school-based programmes to encourage these young men to see themselves as part of Britain rather than foreigners. For this to succeed, the government, teachers, role models and parents have to work together to build a more integrated British society.We need these young men to see themselves as future doctors, scientists, teachers, politicians, sportsmen and more so we need them to contribute to a prosperous British society
Azuma Kalu, Cambridge, United Kingdom
Someone give the head of Mi5 a lollypop for coming up with such a groundbreaking idea. I feel safe knowing our intelligence services are at the cutting edge of new observation and surveillance techniques.
I'm sure such a novel idea could only come from the very top, and that such a complex notion could not have come from the tea boy.
Alex, Southampton,
These are people who have made the free CHOICE and decide NOT to mix with the general population of the country when they came to live here. Once they arrive and have children they have chosen not to speak learn or speak English, (some living here for 30 years and more without learning one work of English). They attended their Mosques and send their children to their own schools ignoring the host population and the British way of life.
Why should our tax money now be used to provide them with jobs and better homes?
They have made the CHOICE in a free society to live where they do and keep up the life style they have, why should any government now spend extra money on that community of people?
What Tony Blair and others politicians should be doing is making it clear that if they continue the way they have over the last few years that they will be asked to leave the country. Yes stripped all of them of their British Citizenship that they do not respect, and send them packin.
Peter Hudson, London, UK
I agree with the above comments. When did Mr & Mrs Christian from Epsom start suicide bombing ?? I say that people should be able to police themselves, which means the identifying of the extremists in these communities. The majority are good people, but the bad element is there and are recognised in their communities. It might be late, but its never TOO late !!!
JDESON, Wimbledon, UK
This is alarming as I assumed they already did this. Did somebody have a revelation then? "Oh, perhaps if we watch the extremists and joy down who they meet and when we'll learn something! Oh, but lets let them know we haven't thought of it till now and give them fore-warning."
Scary.
Gavin, London,
This is the best idea so far..Well done... I hope that there is an E.U wide tracking initiative .
bob, Prague, Czech Republic
If you move to another country you have to accept the rules of another country, not try to impose yours; Namely demanding special times in certain communities when women only can use a public swimming pool, not accepting school uniform dress code, finding christmas cards offensive etc:
There is a simple solution to the problem if the way of life in Britain is too difficult go back to your origins, where judging from the protesters in your article things must be better. But nobody wants to do this, as in reality the opposite is the case.. Which makes you wonder what is wrong with the British way of life, as It has nothing to do with Britain's activities in Iraq,, this is merely the excuse and Freud said, "there is no such thing as an excuse".
John. Gilmore, Chantilly, France
i still dont understand how peodophillia is to do with extremism!
This policy is not going to work you are just alianating the muslim community and causing them to stick together.
This is the wrong way to go about it all, instead of pointing fingers at people, why don't the people of UK look at why these people would want to kill themselves for what they believe in. Because it does not say anywhere in ISLAM that you should kill innocent people, therefore calling it islamic extremeists is completely wrong. it is no wonder the righteous muslims are getting annoyed. Wouldnt you if people kept going on about the christian extremists when you know this is not what your religion says.
This whole system is messed!
Nazeerah, London, UK
I think that for every Muslim who makes a threat to the UK in a fashion akin to the placards displayed in the image above, we should display a placard saying "Down with Allah".
What is wrong with these people? They are from the dark ages, what about freedom of speech, human rights and modernity in general. I can not believe that we tolerate this from this minority group who are so lucky to live in the UK. It is total nonsense.
People complain about Eastern European immigrants who come to work hard, contribute to the economy and further their prospects and ours through legitimate economic channels. They are not threatening a holy war against us, blowing up trains or acting like victims in this ridiculous fashion. We need to get our priorities straight in the UK and decide what kind of behaviour is acceptable and what is not!
Crispin, London, UK
Shouldn't a policy such as this have been in place long ago? Did anyone take the events of 7/7 seriously?
John Tomlinson, Brentwood, UK
What makes me laugh is why we're sensitives to the Muslims and why they think they're being victimised. Of course we're going to be monitoring your communities. It was people from your communities that provided the suicide bombers. It would be a bit of a waste of time targeting large Christian communities in Wiltshire.
Galen Moore, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
"providing jobs, decent homes and social welfare support to dissuade the young from becoming extremists."
But, surely, the 7/7 bombers had or had had jobs. All the bombers had at least equal access to welfare. So this cannot be the answer.
John Gentle, Birmingham,
i think the point is fast approaching where the "good people" of the uk are going to find themselves attracted by the policies of the like of the bnp. The current mainstream parties are failing to see the frustration of your normal brit, if this fustration turns to anger then i think we have a major issue.
As a previous poster mentioned, many moan about workers from eastern eu but for the alternative see the picture above.. i know who i welcome with open arms.
from my point of view, "when in Rome" many dont want to or refuse to adopt this. Frankly i'm proud to be british, maybe more of us should be as well.
Bily w, edinburgh,
You are concerning about people from East Europe who come to UK just work. What about all those extremist who you allow to come during many years? People from East Europe are at least christian and benefit UK a lot.
tomasz, London, UK
Ironically, GOPedophile Alberto Gonzales and his inJustice Department is likely using the same tactics on political activists in the US.
When will the war crimes trials commence for Dictator Bush and Poodle Blair?
Cheers,
Lori R. Price
Mgr., Citizens For Legitimate Government
http://www.legitgov.org/
Lori Price, Bristol, CT, USA
Good artikles.
Yasik, Yulin, China
I was horrified to see placards on this picture. How can ordinary Brits accept these kind of statements? Such statements are a provocation, an insult to the UK - that has done so much for these people.
They lack respect for everything the UK has done for them and everything the UK stands for. Why don't they just leave and move to a society where Islam is at its core? So many countries to choose from. What is the wait?
dupont-liot, Los Angeles,
I think this policy will fail. All this will do is further alienate the communuty. At the same time it will make extremism more cool to the younger generations - making them notorious.
We seriously need to look at our foriegn policy. This is the only way.
zidane, brighton,
If some of the misdirected money put into the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would be put in patrolling the street, would't that cover it?
harold brown, ALBANY , NY, USA
So all this security to monitor people who should count themselves lucky to be in Britain.
We now have to provide them with jobs as well, as if there was some government warehouse where the government stocks up jobs to be handed out.
The central question though, still remains - what is to be done if all this fails?
DaveP, Beverley, UK
Could we please have a special force who will 'adopt' the sex offenders-tracking tactics, for all identified individuals who are known to abuse and violate their own children, within a domestic stuation.
A force who will account for and share sensitive intellligence, with all the agencies and organisations, so that there is an ability to protect the children from being further damaged?
The aim is is to enable the police in their area to know the whereabouts of identified domestic child abusers.
The hope is that the police officers will understand that the job of countering abuse, being inflicted on children , is not just for the concerned people who care, but can be carried out by traditional police methods!
Darnthesafetynet, London,
Yes, it is about time to enact such a thoroughly surveilance on those creatures.
This news are really good news.
ed, L´don - aalborg, UK - DK