If you can't buy a ticket due the SWT's incompetence (and breach of it's commitment) the answer is simple "see you in court" .

Evern if they DID push it, any sane court would find against them - and don't forget every case would need the ticket collector in court, which keeps him/her out of circulation!

Mike Bibby, St Albans, England -not EU

I have been threatened with a penalty fare at after attempting to but a permit to travel at my unmanned departure staion (the machine wasn't working) then trying to buy a ticket on the train (guard didn't have a ticket machine).

On protesting I was told that they would "overlook it on this occasion" but I would be liable to a penalty next time it happened.

John Fox, Southampton,

Has anyone tried getting up earlier so that they can buy their ticket? You already know that money, greed and scheming is the by-word of fat cats. Starve them, get there earlier and buy your ticket. To add a little revenge, you could always take your own food and drink rather than buy from those horrid little wagons they squeeze up the isle........and stop whinging.

m goddard, Kent, England

SWT, British Airways etc.. etc.. travel in this country has become a joke. For all the millions of pounds that these companies spend in advertising telling us how their customers are important to them and that they provide a first class service is a total waste of money. We are in Britain treated as "cattle" when it comes to dealing with virtually any transportation company. They are ALWAYS right and you are wrong, no matter what nice terminology and spin they use to tell you that.

SWT is a disgrace, the issue with penalty fares and the recent changes to peak and off peak charges is disgraceful and the Government should be able to stop them doing this! I hear you say "this Government yeah right fat chance!

Ian, Surrey,

This explains why SWTrains, and other train operators, do not want to allow the use of oyster PAYG on their trains. Allowing customer to top up in advance to avoid having to queue every time they want to use the trains would cost them too much!

I think the government to unleash Ken Livingston on the incompetent fat cat managements of these companies. I can accept good managers who provide a geniuinely good service for the public taking home millions in bonuses, but not the cons running our Train services!

Ali, London,

And how can the government think of introducing road pricing when this is the only alternative?

Andy Barnes, Reading, Berkshire

Your Quote: One train guard told The Times that he had been reprimanded by his manager for showing leniency to passengers

My View: You should name and shame this manager, if he is only out to protect has quarterly bonus, bring it out in the open

Name and Shame him - investigate whats in it for him,, exactly what is this managers bonus deal

Nicholas Iles, Oswestry, Shropshire

SWT have done things like this for a while, boarding a train at Wandsworth Town when the ticket machine isn't working and there is no one in the office and no guard on the train, their favourite scam is to fine you £20 when you try to buy a ticket at your destination station even though you are clearly not trying to dodge any fare. Combined with late and cancelled trains their service is worse than appalling. At the moment my run rate is 1-2 cabs a week to enable me to get into work at a reasonable time. This despite the fact I allow double the 'average' time for my journey. Not sure they understand the term customer service.

Jon, London,

Rail travel in the UK is a disgrace. Highest prices in Europe, lowest levels of service. I use the European rail networks frequently in the course of my work and they are uniformly good. Reliable and excellent value. In contrast, I shun the UK rail network after having suffered too much discourtesy, financial exploitation, unreliability and depressingly shoddy service.

Alan, West Hampstead, UK

Just reading these articles regarding SWT's stance towards their customers makes me so angry and sick and tired of the system that is in place. This whole method of franchising does not work. It is just an opportunity for a rich company to get richer. Once they win the franchise it seems that their profit is unlimited. It's disappointing that the government does not seem to be doing enough (lack of power?) to put the situation right. We can only blame John Major and Thatcher's legacy that Major tried to live up to. He should've known when railway transport was the only thing that Thatcher didn't privatise out of all the natural monopolies.
In a world where the environment is suffering because of too much CO2 from cars and others, the current system of public transport only encourages people to use their cars.
There is a long road ahead for this situation to be sorted out and I just hope that the end of that road is not too far away.

W Y K, South West London,

This happened to me a couple of month ago, the train came into the sation at Hedge End, Southampton with a queue in front of me of 7 people.

Five in front including myself left to get onto the train for Winchester. (I had left with 15min spare)

Onec arrived at winchester I made a B line to the ticket inspector at the office, voluntarily explaining and asking if
could pay for my ticket at that moment in time.

The reply was!
Sorry sir you have no ticket and that is an offence I am giving you a on the spot fine of £20.00 pay now or I will arrange for it to be posted to you and it will cost you more!

Can they get away with this because it seems they are!

Looking after the customer!

Marc Shrubsole, Southampton, Hampshire

I travel from a station where there is only one ticket machine, if people are new to the station they take an age to buy a ticket. Not their fault, the options are many and various and they have no idea what is the best for them. The machine display is just above waist height (disability legislation) and on a sunny morning just about impossible to read. It can take as much as 3 minutes to get the ticket. Multiply that by the number of non-season ticket holders travelling, say 10, and that is the time I should allow for buying my ticket before my train time.
Add to that the issue of parking, by 8 o'clock the station car park is full and alternative parking is non-existent.
South West Trains just does not want non-season ticket holders to travel.
In this instance, they have learned from parking systems everywhere that you trap people by providing insufficient facilities, and then penalise them for non-compliance. As usual, it is all about money. SW Trains should be ashamed.

Glynis Barnes, Salisbury,

I have annual zone 1 and 2 oyster travelcard which costs £888. Six weeks ago, I wished to travel from Waterloo to Richmond, which is in zone 3. Due to queues, I was unable to buy the ticket Ineeded prior to departure.
I boarded the train with a ticket that was valid for the first half of my journey. Whilst still at Waterloo, a guard walked through the carriage. I approached him, explained I had a travelcard that was valid from Waterloo to Clapham Junction and enquired about buying the ticket extension from him. I was told to get off the train, go and buy a ticket, and catch the next one.
I stayed on the train, explained again, all to no avail. The guard sat with me until Clapham Junction, and advised I would be fined if I remained on the train once it left Clapham junction.
I got off and bought my £1.85 ticket at Clapham Junction.
I complained to SWT, giving all relevant info, and SWT advised they could not locate the guard! SWT cannot even track staff on trains. Great security!

Adrian Cova, London, UK

I was under the impression that profiteering is illegal.

Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK

make sure you find out where the guard is, move to the front of the train. After a few stops move to the back.

If they can do it to us. We should do it to them.

mark short hair, london,

Interesting contradiction between two guards' takes on the problem. The first of a total "bone-headed" variety and a much more sympathetic alternative. The attitude of some of the SWT personnel is utterly unbelievable. Let's hope they have to re-orientate their careers one day, and end up as long-term rail commuters. Then they could see what all the fuss is about.

Peter Koeb, Geneva, Switzerland

Worse than this - there are guards at the Excess Fares Window at Reading station who pounce on passengers trying to pay the full and correct fare that they were unable to before their journey started!

Why is the ridiculous rail network not higher up the political agenda?

Andy Barnes, Reading, Berkshire

The rail companies in London should be given 28 days to implement Oyster pay-as-you-go, or they should lose the franchises. Why should I queue for 20 minutes at Vauxhall to buy an extension ticket to Twickenham that costs £1 just because they are to idle to do their jobs properly?
Remember, if a ticket office is open, however long the queue is, you can't buy a "permit to travel", you simply have to queue. That way they're far more likely to get a penalty fare...

Andrew Dale, London, UK

Delicious; exactly how not to run a comercial concern. I will always use my car from choice and this story reinforces that choice. However these are not real comercial concerns at all. The method of privatisation was flawed but the situation was made far worse by that ludicrous effort by 'Bozo' Byersover Railtrack, matched in crassness by the descion over Rover. Play to the gallery at the taxpayers expense. Damn socialism in every way for always making things worse!

Glyn Holford, Devon,

Queue for 5 mins, get evidence that not served, board the train and refuse to pay the full fare . If the company dare to take you to court (which I doubt), go - you will win your case as you are being the more reasonable and they will have to pay costs. Simple - hold your nerve, you are in the right!

Ian Marlow, Leeds,

SWT think that the soar in profits last year, up 38% I think...is obviously not enough to employ more ticket sales people on stations (how much would it cost??)

After checking their website this morning, I see that they fully point out the passengers obligation and responsibility and say that we must leave enough time..Q how much time do they suggest if there is a large number of people waiting?

On their website they also invite "your thoughts and comments" and apparently questions are important to them. You are also invited to contact them at their Southampton office customer service number, if you think there is something that they should know about the service............well?

sharon, , Brighton,

Surely the answer is -only go by train if there is absolutely no alternative.

william grierson, Kimpton, UK

use the car ...its cheaper ..we are the only country in europe where it is cheaper to drive

Jes, london,

my 14 year old daughter tried to purchase a ticket at Fratton Station, no one available to buy ticket, she went up to ticket officer at her destination (two stops) , who promptly gave her a penalty fare ticket, even though she was trying to do the honest thing. Customer services are definitely not attempting to do the decent thing by resolving matter, only threatening court appearance. Have no option but to pay fine

linda fox, swanmore, hants

I might be considered ignorant by jon leigh who has seemingly decamped to Southern, France, but I do know there are no queues at Beauly, Invernessshire, and no overcrowding.

I assume when he refers to UK he actually means a particular bit that is serviced mainly by SWT. Hopefully, in his case, ex pat means ex patronising, we in the UK can do without scoffers from afar.

Jim D, Norwich, UK

I had this very problem on the line between Bath and Swindon (First Great Western) - I had to pay for two single tickets which cost more than twice as much as a "day return ticket". I wrote to FGW using their feedback form and was told I should have been at the station 20 minutes before the train departure time! NEVER in over 30 years using the train service regularly have I been told this before!

Janet Worman, Highworth, Wilts,

At vthe very least, we need legislation to appoint a body to "inspect" the train companies. Failure to sell tickets in the target time would incur heavy fines. An inspector should be able to inspect a ticket office without notice, and demand on-the-spot payment from the booking staff of £1,000 for every minute he deemed the queue to be longer than ONE minute, not five minutes!

The whole thing is too one sided at the moment

Peter Quinn, London, UK

Nothing new - I used to commute by train (no more thankfully!) from Edinburgh to Glasgow and on busy mornings the ticket queues were so long I would often almost miss my train. On one memorable morning I had to board without a ticket. When the collector came around I complained to him about the queues being so long that they led to delays like this. I was told: "You should be more punctual arriving at the station in the morning then".

A lecture on punctuality from the train service - talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

MB, Edinburgh,

At the root of all this is the inescapable fact (argued against only by the ignorant) that the UK is vastly over-crowded.

Jon Leigh, Southern, France

Privatise our national companies to create competition. What a joke. I want to take to a train from London to Bournemouth. Now let me see, I can choose from SWT or.......oh, SWT. Well that's a nice bit of competition isn't it?!!

Thank goodness for National Express who can get me there, sometimes as for the princely sum of £1

guy sanftleben, london, london

The views of the person claiming to be a SWT guard are simply not representative of the actual views of most guards on this issue who are fed up with being put into unnecessary conflict with our legitimate passengers.

Remember, this is not an issue about passengers who try to avoid purchasing a ticket, but about passengers who are actually *approaching* the guard for their ticket. And look how their honesty is rewarded!

On some stations on my routes, passengers have to wait up to an hour and a half between trains! It's outrageous to expect people - some of whom regularly have to queue for 15-20 minutes - to miss their train and wait, just because SWT isn't providing adequate facilities and staffing.

This policy is simply about squeezing even more money out of the pockets of already hard-pressed rail passengers.

A.N Other SWT Guard, Salisbury,

Firstly all rail companies have to comply with goverment legislation regarding ticketing under the National Conditions of carriage. Under condtion 2 it states if ticket issuing facilties are availble you must buy a ticket before boarding a train.
If a passengers fail to purchase a ticket where ticket issuing facilities are availlable then the only tickets that can be purchased are full price tickets such as Standard Day Single/ Return Standard Open Return discounted discounts will not be available.
In addition if travelling from a penatly fare station on apenalty fare train you must buy your ticket (or get a permit to travel) before you board the train. If an authorised penalty fares collector had been checking tickets you may be charged a £20 Penalty fare or twice the full amount to the next station stop whichever is the greatest.

Why the fuss other train companies do exactley the same in most cases you cannot physically board a train with out a ticket.

A SWT Guard , England,

Yet another reason not to use public transport - it's a joke!

Mary Nethercott, Wirral,

Firstly all rail companies have to comply with goverment legislation regarding ticketing under the National Conditions of carriage. Under condtion 2 it states if ticket issuing facilties are availble you must buy a ticket before boarding a train.
I f a passengers fail to purchase a ticket where ticket issuing facilities are availlable then the only tickets that can be purchased are full price tickets such as Standard Day Single/ Return Standard Open Return discounted discounts will not be available.
In addition if travelling from a penatly fare station on apenalty fare train you must buy your ticket (or get a permit to travel) before you board the train. If an authorised penalty fares collector had been checking tickets you may be charged a £20 Penalty fare or twice the full amount to the next station stop whichever is the greatest.

Why the fuss other train companies do exactley the same in most cases you cannot physically board a train with out a ticket.

A SWT Guard , England,

This government has found a marvellous way of deflecting criticism when it comes to rapidly rising indirect taxes to fund its fanciful and wasteful schemes. It simply charges companies for 'licences' to operate and in so doing forces those companies to increase charges to their customers. In the case of SWT they have to pay this franchise fee AKA tax of £10m per month. Divide that by the number of passengers per month and prepare for a shock at how much 'tax' they have to pay on public transport at a time when, supposedly, they want to encourage its use..

Another really obvious example is mobile phone tax. The companies pay billions of pounds for licences and obviously recoup this through tariffs. Almost everybody believes the companies themselves to be profiteering whereas the biggest profiteer of the lot has already extracted their ill-gotten gain before anyone has even made a phone call.

All very nice and much easier for the powers that be to spin their way out of!

Tyke, Yorkshire,

Yet another step by a desperate company to fleece its customer in order to pay for a franchise for which they over-bid. Look out SWT, you're heading the same way as GNER and the sooner the franchise is removed from you the better it will be for the travelling public.

John Holland, Southsea, Hampshire

Having fallen foul of SWT's very own "get rich quick" scheme I vowed never to get on one of their trains again - OK I'm fortunate in that I have options, but just imagine if everyone boycotted SWT just for a day. It might make them stop and think - passengers are customers too!

Dan Pitt, London,

On June 14th, in the period around 8am, SWT decided to locate eight ticket checkers at Mortlake station, south west London, to check the tickets of the dozen or so people who get off outbound trains at that time . Why it would need eight checkers is beyond me. I needed to buy a ticket myself, and there were long queues both at the ticket office and at the machines, so I asked one of the eight to sell me a ticket. They all refused, on the grounds that they were checking, not selling. There are 15-minute intervals between the trains stopping at Mortlake, so for most of that time none of them had anything to do, and they were all equipped to sell tickets. Yet they wouldn’t. I was not the only person on the station to be incensed by this bone-headed behaviour.

Robert Young, East Sheen, UK

I use SWT every day from Portsmouth to Chichester and they are chronic. Over the past 5 years I have had to start getting to the station earlier and earlier to get a ticket and now have to allow 15 minutes on Monday morning when the queue to the ticket office resembles a queue for an exclusive nightclub on Saturday night. If I want the 0724 should I really have to turn up at 0710 to be in with a chance?! And I am regularly told, after this wait that I "should have got up earlier mate"... This does not work the other way round where I queue for 10 minutes to have my ticket on time, then have to wait another 20 for a late train...

MGT, portsmouth,

I hope everyone who suffers because the service provider,in this case South West Trains, can not meet their commitments writes to the customer relations department with their complaint sending it recorded delivery.
The department will be overwhelmed.
I suggest that a response time is requested and a statement that as the 5 minute pledge was not honoured a summonse issued in the county court for a refund plus costs for the additional expenses incurred if your claim is not settled in full withn two weeks.
In essence the passengers and SWT are in a symbiotic relationship as both need each other,Its time to show the operators that.

Michael Wilkinson, Telford, Shropshire England

Penalties and penalty fares are there to penalize fare-dodgers not people who are genuinely attempting to pay there fare. Hopefully they will pick someone rich enough to take them to court and win.

If this is allowed to continue shops will be able to detain you for shoplifting before you attempt toleave the shop. It is the same principle.

Roger Tilbury, Worthing,

It's all very well for people to claim they've already tried to buy a ticket but, from the rail company's point of view, how do they know that? It's a few years now since I had to travel regularly by train but, when I did, there used to be "authority to travel" machines at stations from which, for say 20p, you could quickly buy a ticket which proved where and when you started your journey. You could then pay the balance of the fare to the conductor/guard or at the end of your trip. Maybe more of these machines should be installed.

Barry, Wallington, UK

daylight robbery

They have 4 ticket machines at woking but only two can take cash. Four ticket windows but only two are ever open and a whopping six revenue protection officers who cant sell you a ticket because they are too busy stinging people for a £20 fine because they couldnt buy a ticket!

they have more staff fining people than they do selling tickets

chris, woking,

If any organisation is given power over individuals then sooner or later, usually sooner, they will abuse that power. Local authorities are a classic example of missuse of law to enforce unjust action and this action by the rail companies is in the same bracket. Cynical disregard for the individual has steadily become a daily norm and untill there is a collective will, either politically or from outside of the system, this will continue to everyones disadvantage.
Rail travel in this country compared with our European neighbours is often a sick joke, further example of maladministration is no real surprise.

mike gee, bournemouth, uk

SWT should simply have their franschise taken away with immediate effect. If they can't do the job that the 'signed up' for then they should be "sacked".

The "not my problem guvenor" is both inacceptable and an affront to the intelligence of the travelling public.

Sadly, I will not hold my breath waiting for any 'real action' to be taken against them!

Adrian, Malaga, Spain

Refuse to pay, let them take you to Court and you will win!

Raymond, Haslemere, England

This is a disgrace. It's simply a licence to print money and cannot be allowed to continue. Rail companies have a monopoly so they know their customers have no choice. if any other business behaved in this way they would lose all the clients.

roz kadir, Kingston, surrey

We have options: 1. Miss the train; 2. Take the train, be charged maximum fare; 3. Take the car.

Hmmm, tough one.

And this government wants us to 'go green'? Get real.

Amanda, Reading, Berkshire,

This new policy of not showing discretion is disproportionate and punishes the honest. SWT had a policy where as long as you reported to the guard as soon as you boarded the train then you paid the normal fare. This was fair, proportionate and made the guard's life easier in catching the real fare-dodgers. Now, you are presumed guilty and have to go through the hassle and no doubt bureaucractic process of claiming back money, which is rightfully yours, and in the meantime SWT are getting the interest. After yet another fare-hike, this is another example of SWT putting profit before psssangers and turning us away from alternative greener transport.

Whitebook, Bournemouth,

I think this is disgusting. It is the same as stealing. They make it impossible to buy a ticket and then punish you for their short falls.

Where is the trading standards when consumers need them????

Jez, Stanmore, England

You can see their point, fare dodgers just simply say there was a queue and then pay their fare, the chances of getting caught is low, so they keep taking the chance. However they need to ensure they have enough ticket machines.

C Parkes, West Midlands,

Re Nationalise the Railways.

Mike, Paphos, Cyprus

I am afraid that if I had been unable to purchase a ticket prior to boarding, I would opt for my day in Court.

Perhaps these executives would benefit form a course in Customer Service.

John, East Sussex, UK

Sounds like a great way to squeeze more bucks out of mug passengers - so what are the "aurhorities" doing about the breaches of undertakings? Presumably nothing as usual.

Gerry Watts, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

SWT does not maintain its remote ticket machines. When broke don't mend it, that way SWT can charge maximum fares.

Jane Fleming, Whittlesey, CAMBRIDGESHIRE

This is appalling and disgusting. So many times we the public are penalised because of inefficiency of public employees and commercial greed.

Aline Waites, London, England

This is clearly a corporate instruction designed to make money, but I've also had trouble with the dreaded Oyster machines. Having been fined and treated like a criminal once on th DLR because I couldn't find the machine to swipe in, I'm very wary. After a concert at Wembley on Saturday I was funnelled straight onto the platform and when I questioned it, was told that "no one else is paying". Reluctant to get clobbered by another inspector on a train or to pay the full daily fare at the other end, I faught my way against the flow and managed to get to the ticket barrier and persuade the staff to let me swipe in. With an Oyster card, failure to swipe in at the start is treated as fare evasion. This article suggests that inability to buy a ticket is also being treated in the same way. There's something very wrong when honest people are penalised.

Dave West, Croydon,