What ever happened to customer service! As for being treated like a criminal for asking to pay for a ticket on board a train - it's disgusting!- I can't imagine going up to the cash register in a store and them threatening me with criminal proceedings - 'did you intend to pay for this dress?!'. Before we know it, all UK citizens will have a criminal record for trying to buy a ticket for a train if these inspectors are given this free reign and these ways of comission!

jenny, london,

Now you Brits should be able to understand why most of us in Southern California are very reluctant to forgo our cars for all the problems that transportation systems have or will be foisting on us. We already understand some of the problems. So far our systems are public, not privately owned and heavily regulated.
Our main problem is the unions, ever after more money to the detriment of the traveling public. So, when there is a strike, the people without cars who need to use the system to get to work are the greatest sufferers.
As I see it, your government is not handling the situation as it should. Famous 12 words that indicate than you are in great trouble: " We are from the government and we are here to help you." ---- Keep a stiff upper lip.

Don Grigsby, Huntington Beach, California

Trains are a JOKE. To begin with I thought it was great but the more you use them the worse they are. 1 - Some trains have 1 or 2 carriages. Where as others have 4 or 5. Why pay to stand. 2 - They leave early or never turn up. The driver is not here yet. But I only get 1 train an hour. 3 - The afternoon train back comes 56 past the hour. When I finish uni at 17.00, I have to wait for the 17.56. 4 - Last year I got warned on the train for buying a ticket there. I even had the money. An honest payer should not get grief. 5 - Now I drive, I save time and money. The train station is in the middle of nowhere, so I ended up walking 30mins. 6 - When they changed the times I ended up worse, leaving hoe earlier and getting to university over 40mins early. 7 - Only 1 train an hour, how does that justify good transport. It's a total shambles. If you can drive. You're lucky. I recommend using a car.

Baldeep Birak, Southampton, Hampshire

Simple solution. All you nancies need to tell the
rail workers to stuff it, go ahead and call the police. If you all do the same, what will they do. I understand your prisons are turning out 25,000 prisoners because of overcrowding. Where will they put you all. Y'all need to watch United Flight 93.

Robert , Ft worth, Tx USA

I queued, then got on a train, without a ticket, else I would have missed my meeting (because of the new ridiculous timetable). The rail passengers charter states that queuing for tickets should not exceed 5 minutes. When was the Charter declared extinct? I got off at Waterloo and presented myself to buy a ticket: I was met with a barrage of abuse from a ticket inspector. I explained that I queued for more than 5 mins and then had to travel, else I would be 30 minutes late. She called me a "Stupid liar" and then said, "I don't care about the Charter". She carried on insulting and abusing me, so I recorded it on my phone and sent it to SWT. I think the Times should print the transcript as it paints a vivid picture.
Two days later, I presented my ticket to a ticket inspector. He grabbed me by the arm, smiled with glee and dragged me aside. Opps, I gave him yesterday's ticket. His colleague rubbed his hands together and started to complete the penalty form. Their glee turned to dissa

Ian Swiv, Staines, UK

We have made two attempts to use rail travel in recent weeks and on both occasions have remained with the car for the following reasons.
1. Ticket machines out of order and station booking office closed. That seems rather similar to this article.
2. Planned two weeks before on the following travel schedule
Tuesday Cambridge to Plymouth
Thursday Plymouth to Birmingham
Friday Birmingham to Bournemouth
Saturday Bournemouth to Sheffield
Sunday Sheffield to Cambridge
Travel costs worked out at about £600.00 for two by rail versus £200.00 or £400.00 according to AA rates for car running costs.
Whateever costs the train companies may try to justify this margin of difference just keeps cars on the road. At least the car goes where you're going when you wantt to go and at a sensible price too! And no taxis or buses at your destinations.

John Ellis, Cambridge, UK

does this mean that when I'm coming back from my friends house, where the local station has a ticket office which is only open about 3 hours per weekday, and a permit to travel machine whihc hasn't been fixed in about two years, I'll get fined? Probably. Just another way of screwing over those who're trying to be honest I guess. Then Mr Brown wonders why I use the car

Mike Blitz, Winchester`, UK

Why not just put ticket machines on the trains?

Mark, Woking, UK

I would like to point out that not everybody leads the kind of easy predicatable 9-5 lifestyle where one can simply buy online days in advance, or even the night before. Many rail commuters do so on an ad-hoc basis, and should not be expected to buy season tickets or plan their journeys days in advance. Commuters should not have to que for longer then 15 minutes to pay their fare, just because SWT don't wish to pay for staff to check tickets on trains. Any responsible operator would do so, and allow staff the reasonable discretion to judge who the obvious fare dodgers are. This is just another attempt to squeeze more cash out of a captive customer base under the noses of an indifferent regulatory. The chap who thinks his £3,500 a year season ticket is subsidising anybody other then SWT should get a reality check.

Nick, Weymouth,

The train companies are actually providing ammunition that justifies the use of motor vehicles on the roads rather than highlighting the benefits (?) of public transport. I would rather add time to my jorney by driving than take the train.

Al Lockhart Smith, London, UK

Whilst I have access to a South West Trains station at nearby Wareham, I choose to use National Express coaches when travelling to London.

Coaches to Victoria leave my home town, Swanage, at 07:45 daily. Yes, the journey is longer (around four hours instead of two to Waterloo PLUS 30 minutes by bus to Wareham) but the fare is about 1/3 of S W Trains.

The rail-travelling public are, literally, being railroaded!

Tony J, s, UK

South West trains squeezing even more money out of commuters what a surprise?!

More money for the chauffeur driven executives who wouldn't dream of getting into one of there own trains? More money for poor, late, reduced services! More money to stand for 2 hours next to the broken toilets on the way to Bournemouth! More money for a rail replacement bus service and extra time on your journey on the weekend!

Will South West ever have the decency to take our money and do something constructive with it: employing more staff or running efficient services for example?

Simon, Somewhere in the Southwest,

In that case, we should get a rebate when we miss our train due to ticket office queues (was about 15 deep in w.byfleet last week) - or in fact, whenever a train is late.

That'll force them to focus on customer service, because profit margins seem to be the only language they understand.

Mark, Woking, UK

Is it even legal to behave in this manner? I shall certainly be quite vocal in publicising this to friends and on the basis of this high-handed profiteering I shall not be travelling on South-West again; I can only suggest that everyone else do likewise in the hope that they get the message.

Paul Danson, Bristol,

I wonder if the Scottish CEO of Stagecoach, Brian Souter, would try this on if it were a Scottish rail line, and Scottish travellers? I think we know the answer.

NHS, prescription charges, care for the elderly, education, university top-up fees and now travel - how long are the English going to put up with this blatant two-nation discrimination while footing the bill for it.

Martin, London,

K Wells, sounds to me you have taken up the litigious attitude of the Americans well and truly. I certainly don't agree with what South West Trains is doing, however I'm sure there are much better ways of approaching this problem than simply saying "sue, sue sue". We've all seen the effects of excessive litigation on out daily lives.

T Wilson, London, UK

The Department for Transport said it was investigating queuing times at South West Trains’ stations and would take action if the company was breaching the regulation.

I'll save them the time. The queues at Staines station are more often than not very, very long. And then when you get to the front of the queue you are often met by people the other side of the window for whom customer service is clearly a foreign concept (not all of them though, do not want to tar everyone with the same brush).

After six annual season tickets, the current one ends next week and it will be my last, for a while at least. Never in that time has the SWT service been so poor. the timetable was shaken up a couple of years ago but the promised improvements do not seem to have materialised for me.

Management of the ticket barriers at Vauxhall station is often a shambles.

Well thanks for letting me get that of my chest.

Paul, Staines,

I was recently fined £20 for not having a ticket. I didn't have a ticket because the queue at our local station St.Margarets was so long it would have taken me 20 minutes to get a ticket for a 25 minute journey! I sent in a letter of complaint to the inspector and was refunded the £20 less the cost of the fare. I would encourage others to do the same. It is unacceptable to have to queue over 15 minutes for tickets. Especially as they could install more and better ticket machines at most stations which would prevent this.

M Driver, twickenham,

I travel on South West Trains twice a day, Monday to Friday. Yes, the trains are very reliable, clean and pleasant to travel in, but some (a minority) of the staff are not helpful or understanding at all. I was fined twice in one week - once for not having a ticket as I wasn't aware that my destination was 'London Terminals' (I wanted to travel to Victoria), and once because the 1 ticket machine at my local station wasn't taking notes, only coins. I appealed against both, my appeals were declined and I was basically told that it was my problem not theirs. I was told to refer to the rules and regulations guide. Like I carry one of those around with me!!

Wendy, London,

Of course SW trains should charge people without tickets the full fare. In the majority of cases people who do not have tickets are fare dodgers, thus forcing up the price of season tickets for the rest of us.

For those who don't want to buy tickets in the morning then book them via the internet or buy them at the ticket counter the night before when returing home from your previous train trip.

You have to buy plane tickets before you board the plane. Exactly the same priciple should apply to trains. I shouldn't have to pay £3,500 a year for a season ticket so other people can dodge fares. In true honesty, who actually approahes a gurad if they don't have a ticket? It would be well under 5% thus forcing those who actually buy tickets to pay hogher prices to compensate fare didgers.

Helen, Stoke Mandeville,

What a shame! The SWT guards are so cheery and helpful these days. I expect their demeanor will change if they have to deal daily with unhappy customers. Back to the bad old days of grumpy customer service...

Dom, Hartley Wintney, Hampshire

I am a guard on SWT, when we where recently told about the changes we would have to undertake doing our ticket checks the company told us that even people with disabled railcards, children and senoir citizens should all be issued full standard single tickets on the train.
We are now grilled by our managers as to why we sold say 20 cheapday returns in one week.
The main fare evaders are usally hiding in the toliets not sitting with a credit card waiting to buy a ticket from staff.

John Smith, london,

The Department for Transport should investigate urgently this apparent rip off by South West Trains. It is clearly designed to deter people buying their tickets on the train.

The companies responsible should be asked to state how they justify these huge price increases and this should be made very public. The most obvious answer would be to allow passengers to buy their tickets from ticket offices and ensure that this facillity is always available.

I am sure that there are many ways that the government could deter this unreasonable price hike.

Noel Dobson, York, N.Yorkshire GB

It is an outrage that as paying customers we are treated in this way when the services supplied are so far from being acceptable. These operators are just trying to con us and we need to take them to law.

Jonathan, London, London

All trains on the SWT London to Staines route have a first class carriage. However, not all of them require a first class ticket to sit in them, and quite frankly, all you get is a three-pin socket, curtains and arms on the seats in first class anyway. Having never been on a train that required anything more than a standard ticket I was horrified one day to be held captive in my seat by 2 male guards demanding a penalty fare. I explained my understanding but they kept threatening me with increasing fares and the police until I paid up. I later made a complaint but SWT refused to do anything other than "speak to the officers concerned" and stated that they would not be able to tell me the outcome anyway due to data protection law!
Funnily enough, the next week SWT started to announce on trains and at stations which trains required first class tickets and which did not. If only I could get to work some other way, I would.

Catherine Buckleton, Staines,

Your article about SWT using penalty fares as a revenue raising device rings so true. My experience began happening a few weeks ago, just after SWT introduced the penalty fares policy.

I buy my ticket at Farncombe station where there is one manned ticket window and one machine. I would arrive in the morning, queue up and possibly a third of the times the queue would not have reached the window or machine by the time the train arrived. I would board without a ticket, travel up one stop to change trains at Guildford and buy my whole ticket to Reading from the special ticket window for people without a fare.

One inspector there threatened me with penalties even though I wanted to buy a ticket and had queued to buy one. I said that the the facilities at Farncombe were insufficient to deal with the demand and was told that there were plans to install a new machine, so SWT knew that they were at fault. A different inspector there would sell me a ticket without argument.

Nick Burke, Godalming, Surrey

There's a simple answer to this one, "Let the car take the strain"

Rob Bain, Derby,

I have been fined before, for getting on a train when the ticket office was closed and the fare machine was broken down. I was seriously dissapointed, £20 down and ignored when I wrote to them. Fair enough, everyone should pay their way, but how much do they expect smelly, cramped, old trains are worth? Not very much!

I also think, there is a big push for people to get on the green thang, and use public transport, even though it's slower, feels more dangerous, more expensive and frequently unreliable!

They need to sort themselves out!

Rebecca Rosier, London, UK

This is an example of very poor management thinking. In one simple memo, the public has been angered, the guards must be left feeling demoralised and the company looks completely underhand; is it any wonder it was headed "commerically sensitve, not for circulation". Full marks to the CEO of Go-Ahead; at least we know he's not in the business of persecuting the people that buy his product.

John M, Birmingham, UK

What a way to run a railway "service" It is typically british, never using rail myself, I am not affected by these barmy carry-ings on, but wonder how passengers keep from strangling rail staff.

p hirst, cockermouth, cumbria

So on the one hand the government forces up the cost of motoring "for the good of the environment" and to encourage us to use public transport. And then when you use public transport, guess what, the government has forced the price of that up as well!

What a tax raising sham, why do we accept it? This government is worse than an Orwellian nightmare. What next? The re-writing of history?

irvtheswerv, Manchester, UK

But some South West trains stations are often not staffed even on weekdays when they should be. The excuse: staff shortage, is fair enough, but that's no reason to take it out on passengers.......

Brian Thomas, Bentley, Hampshire, UK

It is the worst type of cynical behaviour, especially as rail users in the South East appear to be considered fair game by the Government.

As a reluctant user of SWT, I frequently see the oafish behaviour of their "Revenue Protection" staff at stations who are clearly under instruction to ignore anything anybody says and issue penalty fares and appear to be recruited on grounds of being both large and the ability to be wilfully stupid.

The Guards are usually much more user friendly but this policy puts them in an impossible position

But what else can be expected when a Government persists in granting an effective monopoly to any rail company but only in return for huge franchise fees?

iT IS STEALTH TAXATION BY PROXY

Brian herren, Gulidford, UK

I did have experience regarding this before during my train from Birmingham International to Hednesford. What happened was, my wife and me just arrived back in UK on holiday in Tunisia and when i get to the Birmingham International station, we will need to get to Birmingham New Street and catch another train to Hednesford. There was a long queue (which will definitely meant waiting for more than 15 minutes, the ticketing machine is not working) and the next train thats will be arriving in 5 minutes time so we decided to get the train ticket on the train. But when we been approached by the guard on the train, we had been told that my wife needed to pay the penalty fine of £20 ( i got a train pass with me at that time), we explained to the guard situation at the station, we will miss the connecting train to Hednesford if we didnt get on to this train and will need too wait for an hour for the next ,he doesnt convinve and still insisted we pay the fine on the spot !

V of Central Train, Birmingham,

Isn't this one of the reasons that the railways were nationalised in the first place? South West trains has screwed up by agreeing to pay the government more than it can afford. If you can't pay the bill then there is no profit to pass on to the owner - i.e Stagecoach. At least that's how it works in most companies. There need to be laws made to stop these extortionary practices for monopolies.

CA, Manchester, UK

Another tactic they use is to wind up the car park charges to extortionate levels to get round the cap on season ticket prices.

Nigel, Woking,

I thought the point was to encourage people to use public transport, but this ridiculous faremongering attitude actually encourages people to do the opposite. South West trains are already overcharging their customers and it is sickening (though sadly unsurprising) to hear about incentivising their staff to extort yet more money. And what's worse still is the hypocritical Bliar government driving all of this.

Emma, Richmond, England

K. Wells is right. It's the passive attitude of British subjects to the state and large private corporations that allow such poor quality rip-off services to develop and not just in rail travel. Somehow I don't think the French or Americans would show such servility.

Andrew, London, UK

This is just typical of the rail fat cats trying squeeze as much out of their "captive" market as possible. This is just one of many money making schemes dreamt up to make more profit at the expense of the commuter. I think the commuters need to stage a strike...travel without paying for a day in protest! We need to show them that we will not be bullied.
Well done to whoever came forward with this…shame on you SWT!!!

Annoyed, New Malden,

One reason that passengers prefer to buy tickets at the counter is that ticket machines overcharge. They have an internal clock so they won't sell a cheap ticket at peak times. But needless to say, Southeastern's ticket machines are set so that they can always sell expensive peak tickets at all times.

There is no on-screen information about when peak / cheap times apply, so many passengers end up being significantly overcharged.

The railway has been reminded many times of this (and similar problems) for over FIVE YEARS but it has chosen to do nothing about it.

Gerry, Sevenoaks,

How could SW Trains and others be made to follow Transport for London in running something similar to the Oyster Card Scheme ? A swipe in and out is debited - highly automated, recharged online or mobile. Think how much they could save on the ticket office staff, and no excuses for not having a ticket either.

Generally the train staff make every effort to be helpful, but this is an unfair condition of their contracts that will subject them to much frustration if not abuse. Luckily peak trains on the Portsmouth lines are so crowded - rare chance of a seat after Haselmere - so the guard couldn't get through to collect his fines anyway.... TIme to pull the Operating companies into line big time..

Liz, Haslemere, UK

I thought we were supposed to be encouraged to use public transport!! This is NOT the way to do it.

Sharon, Leeds, West Yorkshire

If rail wants to become the main form of transport in the UK then it needs to drop fares by 80% to increase its passengers not keep jacking the price up until all but the rich can afford it!
The shoddy ticketing service, which is slow because of the vast amount of fares available, depending whether the moon is full or it's after midnight on St Davids day, is a poor reason charging 'the full rip-off price'. Greedy rail executives are lining their pockets and those of shareholders at the expense of its customers.
We are in a transport rip-off society today. We have roadside cameras collecting taxes. We have a pernicious congestion charging system in London run by another greedy company. We have the taxman charging over 65% tax on vehicle fuel. We have fuel surcharges on aircraft. Wherever we go we are being ripped-off for the cost of getting there. There is no such thing as cheap travel in this country no matter what the environmental harpies tell you.

David Thijm, Stourbridge, UK

I now travel between Cambridge and Bristol by National Express coach, because the £22 return fare booked by internet shortly beforehand is less than one-third of the train fare even with a railcard reduction. It adds about 90 minutes to the journey time; but the coaches are well maintained, run to schedule, connect centrally at Victoria, provide you with a seat (a rare experience on most peak-hour trains), and don't stop for weekend engineering work as First Capital Connect's always seem to. In answer to NB, there has been no effort to cut the Cambridge ticket queues at peak times, and the train operators clearly have no incentive to do this, as their penalty fares add a further mark-up to an already absurdly expensive ticket.

AS, Cambridge, UK

It would be fair if it was possible to get to a ticket booth . My experience is to wait sometimes 30 minutes before getting a ticket or rushing onto the train and hoping for a friendly inspector to sell a ticket. The machines cannot take account of my Freedom Pass and so I must use a booth to get the best value for journies oout of London.

Burden, London,

When they "privatized" our railway network we were offered 'choice'. "Impossible” & “Ridiculous" we said. But they surprised us. A quick UK web search offers us: national rail, british rail, network rail, rail timetable to name a few. Each offer vast amounts of info, some relevant, we have a selection of ticket prices, from several pricing plans. We have randomly varying ‘Timetables’, dependant on the previous days arrivals/departures, we’re served by guards or ‘customer hosts’ under differing rules and penalties, staff also work under various regimes, we get to travel in a veritable museum of train designs and liveries, we travel with the knowledge that we’re reliant on several whimsical 'investors'. We even have more that enough ‘watchdogs’, both official and otherwise to ensure we’re suitably cared for. It occurs to me we’re offered similar ‘service’ from all UK utilities. Still, mustn’t grumble…

tim buckley, brighton, UK

I witnessed a Revenue Inspector in action the other day. A young man travelling to Haselmere had discovered a broken ticket machine at the start of his journey. This apparently was no excuse nor was the fact that he had evidence with him of having bought tickets for the journey the rest of the week. I was amazed at the inflexibility on display but clearly this was following orders. To his credit the young man remained polite despite being threatened with being turned on to the platform at the next stop and handed over to the police. Anyone could see he was a major threat to SWT proftability and thoroughly dishonest - not the sort of fellow passenger we want at all!

Chris Drew, Guildford,

Well let's hope passengers who are unable to buy before boarding, through no fault of their own, refuse to pay penalty fares and let this cowboy outfit take them to court. I cannot imagine a court could seriously find in their favour! My station (Grateley) has one ticket machine, outdoor with no protection from the elements, and trains hourly. If you arrive to find a queue of 5 people, as has happened, there is no hope of getting a ticket without missing the train. To date, guards have generally acted in a civilised manner and sold the discounted tickets onboard. Sounds like that will not be the case in the future though...

Anthony Biddulph, Stockbridge, Hants

Yet another example of SWT showing total contempt for their customers and abusing their effective monopoly position.

I doubt anyone who uses their services will be surprised by this.

Chris, Haslemere,

Considering the daily waits i experience at Fleet Station to get tickets, machines that don't work or only accept certain payment cards and long queues i think this is disgraceful. I don't think i've ever got a ticket in under 5 minutes even with the automated ticket machines. I won't be using trains where i can avoid them - sadly there just isn't a sensible alternative for travelling into the city. You'd think it wouldn't be hard to have an online payment method you could use at home or the night before with an ID/code that a guard could verify - the internet is almost ubiquitous now.

Ben, Fleet, UK

I would disagree that South Eastern are more understanding. I needed to extend my ticket whilst on board a train due to a change of plan. The extra fare was £4.55, I was fined £36.60 after approaching a member of South Eastern staff to pay the extension.

Matthew, Tonbridge,

Bring it on! My train company view fare enforcement as an option and it guts me to watch people who regularly travel without tickets (you hear them bragging to their mates) pretend to be asleep when the guard comes round or make up some rubbish about their ticket office being closed getting away without paying. The fares are too high because of people like that. Check EVERYONE'S ticket on EVERY train and fine people who think they can get away with it.

Steve Lee, Gillingham, England

Until more ticket buying facilities are provided rail firms should not be allowed to take such action. Passengers are being left with little option but to stand in line and watch 1 or 2 trains they could take to work go by.

I often travel to work on South West trains. It isn't economical for me to buy a season ticket because i don't always take the train and therefore have to buy a ticket at the station each morning. At Wandsworth Town station there is one ticket machine and one office with one person serving. The office isn't always open. You literally have to give yourself 15 minutes extra on a morning to ensure you can get a ticket, and that's providing the machine is in use or decides to accept your debit card.
You then run the risk of getting stuck behind a customer who can't figure out how to work the machine, add 5 mins.

I have been fined once and then made to buy a ticket on top of the fine.

holly, london, uk

"And this sort of thing is going to encourage people to abandon their cars for public transport...........................?"

No, train companies are actually trying to discourage people to abandon their cars for public transport. They get enough income anyway, and having to put on extra carriages or, G*d forbid, create more space for bikes and luggage, would only cost them more money.

starling, Lancaster,

K Wells from LA has the right idea. I have tried to make 4 long distance train journeys in the last year. 2 were completely cancelled and 2 were so late that the the arrival time was up to 3.5 hours late. On one occassion I was left to find a taxi for the last 40 miles of my journey at a cost of £83. (Despite having been told it would be taken care of by the train company). Requests for reimbursement (with documented receipt) which were sent to the train company were politely declined. Only when I finished my 4th letter with the threat of legal action and publicity through the media did I receive the £83. But why is this the case? It's because in general we give up too easily and let these companies off the hook. I like train travel and it is more enviromentally friendly but when 4 out fo 4 journeys go wrong, what alternative do I have now but to return to the car.

C Miller, Aberdeen, Scotland

My son, aged 15, was fined £20 at Bracknell Station by an inspector because he did not have his season ticket. He was going on a school trip that day, hence not wearing his school uniform where his ticket always is. There are no barriers at Winnersh, where he starts his journey so therefore he didn't realise until he arrived in Bracknell. If he had bought a ticket in Winnersh it would have costed about £2 and he could have reclaimed it the next day when showing his season ticket. He was also very worried, because he couldn't understand it all, he thought he was being put on a criminal record. The Train staff in Wokingham where I paid the fine were appalled. The way the inspector treated him (first time dealing with authority outside school) was unacceptable. He was travelling without a ticket , so we paid. They phoned a helpdesk checking that his address were correct, making sure he wasn't lying. But couldn't check he had a valid season ticket. He is a minor, that was scared afterwards

Eva Rickett, Wokingham, Berkshire

Do the TOC's (Train Operating Companies) not understand that they are only here to facilitate a service? If the TOC's continue to behave in this fashion then their customers will spend their money on other methods of transport i.e. plane, car, and coach.

It is about time that this Government takes control of these TOC's and enforces penalties for poor performance.

We, the general public are not cattle, however if the TOC's continue to operate in this vain then I am sure that we may become sheep, and follow each other to alternative methods of travelling to and from our place of work.

I vote for one TOC company, and given their excellent level of delivery I would give the franchise to Network Rail. They as a company deliver an excellent infrastructure for the current parasites to operate their trains on.

We do not live in rubbish Britain, we live in Great Britain. Gordon Brown please take note!!!

Mr Fed Up, Cheshire, Great Britain

I have seen this very worrying approach being adopted across the south west network with extremely aggressive approaches from guards and inspectors to all, including the young, infirm and elderly. I have seen people who regularly travel, paying extortionate fees, being targeted in this manner. Once again it is being driven by profit making from those higher up the ladder.

Surely we all deserve some respect when travelling by train especially as the service is far from good. I wonder what would happen if all passengers started being as aggressive to staff when the service was poor, I am sure this would not be tolerated in any form, nor should it be from staff to customers.

South West Trains has increasingly put up fares with no marked improvement in standards of service. Maybe as passengers we should all be demanding fares back plus a £20 'penalty' fee when our train doesn't arrive on time.

About time SW Trains took a good look at itself.

warren lever, southampton,

I did have experience regarding this before during my train from Birmingham International to Hednesford. What happened was, my wife and me just arrived back in UK on holiday in Tunisia and when i get to the Birmingham International station, we will need to get to Birmingham New Street and catch another train to Hednesford. There was a long queue (which will definitely meant waiting for more than 15 minutes, the ticketing machine is not working) and the next train thats will be arriving in 5 minutes time so we decided to get the train ticket on the train. But when we been approached by the guard on the train, we had been told that my wife needed to pay the penalty fine of £20 ( i got a train pass with me at that time), we explained to the guard situation at the station, we will miss the connecting train to Hednesford if we didnt get on to this train and will need too wait for an hour for the train in New Street and he doesnt convinve and still insisted we pay the fine on the spot !

V of Central Train, Birmingham,

What's wrong with you lot?? You don't get on a plane without a ticket. You don't walk out of the supermarket without paying for your shopping because "the queue is too long"! What on earth makes people think they can get on a train without a ticket?? SWT is not some sort of charitable provider of free services. Everyone has to pay for things in life!

NoIdon'tworkforSWT, Cambridge,

I've had an idea.

A couple of months ago I was stopped on the Thameslink. I has changed my trousers and left my ticket in the pait at home. I was given a caution - which is outrageous - and told to send my ticket off to a certain address within a week for no further action. This I did and forgot about it.

Two weeks ago, I recieved a court summons with a minimum fine of £105. They had lost teh ticket I sent to them, but I could prove via bank statements I had paid for a ticket, so they said don't fill in te forms and don't go to court.

I should ahve gone to court and proved I had paid. they would have been liable for all copsts (I think) anyine fancy starting an action group to encourage more people to go to court, probve their innocence and leave the rail comnpnaies with large legal bills.

We need to bully the bullies.

Garrry Whiye, London,

this is disgraceful. The management should be publicly shamed for profiting from their lack of ticket machines.

paulc, gloucester,

I think the words "strip" and "franchise" come to mind, why the hell do these guys get to operate like the local mafia mob and then get away with it legally?

I have seen for a while now how legal businesses are operating in the UK in its "lets stick the hand in" mentality. Until people vote with their feet and protest in large masses this is going to continue and the Govt should have the strength to tell them in no uncertain terms to stop it! Total disgrace!

Laurance Allen, Hampstead,

Buying my ticket at a SW Trains station on Wednesday afternoon I found that the machine refused to accept any of the three £10 I offered it. In this case a human ticket-seller would have been the only option had I not had a credit card on me.

Arthur, Guildford, Surrey

Why the hell did this country privatised its rail system? This used to be the envy of other European countries, now we have an expensive, second-class service, while Germany, France or Spain have cheap, fast, reliable trains

John, London, UK

Why Oh Why is it impossible for the train operators in Britain to do what they do in the rest of Europe. Simply let people buy a ticket on the train. In Finland for example, commuter trains have designated carriages where you can buy tickets from the inspector. Should you happen to be in a non-designated carriage, then you pay a penalty fare

Lawrence, Lahti, Finland

Its really nothing new. The councils extort penalties for overstayed parking, the police extort with speed cameras, banks and credit card companies do it with charges, the government do it with lots of penalties for innumerable things. They deliberately make complicated and inconvenient rules with big penalties to make money.

Rules and regulations used to be so everyone knew what to do, and penalties and punishment only for lawbreakers. Now they are there for the money

Gary, Manila,

If ticket office employees are legally obliged to sell the cheapest available fare, what differentiates them from guards on the trains? Surely they must all have the same legal obligations.

M Starkie, Horsham,

Well done SW Trains - Al Capone would be very proud of you!

You should now look to diversifying your rackets in the near future.

JC, London,

This is old news. It has been the policy of South West Trains for ages to only allow full fare purchase onboard. It's great that the media have finally cottoned on - shows Brits are taking action K Wells??

What is also bad is when the inspectors check tickets when leaving the train at Waterloo in the morning (why, when tickets have already been checked on board?!). This causes immense congestion on the platform. In that situation, people without tickets are forced to queue for about half an hour on the platform which makes them late for work.

Sarah, Walton-on-thames,

Train tickets are ridiculously expensive as it is. This is criminal, I'm just glad I have my driving test on saturday!

Harry Saunders, Surrey,

If South West Trains believe that customers will put up with this rule, they must be crazy.

I for one used to catch a train from Witley in Surrey where the station was frequently closed. Do they think I will pay extra because I was unable to buy my ticket in advance?

South West trains may find that the number of customers they take to court increases and the production of this evidence that they are breaking their own obligation to their customers

Andrew Taylor, Brno, Czech Republic

Sadly this does show that de-nationalisation was a bad idea. No doubt the government will let it happen.

CA, Manchester, UK

Can anyone advise if this is legal? If you have the money to pay the station price fare, is there any obligation on the guard to take this?

Dean, London,

If this is true, and I have absolutely no doubts that it is! I am of th opinion that the Government should immediately withdaw the Rail Franchise of those Operators abusing the system in such a way. At the end of the day, it is the Tax Payers money that the Government are using and should be used for the benefit of the Tax Payer....Not the Rail Franchisee!

This also is mismanagement by the Government - What more can one expect from this Government (Not that the Opposition would do any better)

Tony Walker, Louth, Lincolnshire, England

What a marvellous example of privatisation the rail network is, eh? Bodes well for the tube..

Owen, London, UK

I have written to SWT customer services referring them to this article and letting them have my views on this subject (although I have a season ticket and I am normally not affected by queues & machines). I recommend everyone to do the same.

cgp, London, UK

If there is a need to encourage people to use public transport for environmental reasons, then the public need to feel that they are getting a fair deal. It seems to me that buying a railway ticket is a complete lottery supervised by officious guards backed up by rail barons with no regard for the public who ultimately pay their wages.

D Hastings, London,

Let them tale you to court. Prove you had every intention of paying your fare and you'll win. These penalties and penalty fares are akin to arresting you for shoplifting before you leave the store.

They were introduced to deal with fare-dodgers not honest passangers.

If Herr Diktator Blair and co had an ounce of guts and intergrity they'd ban these penalties from being enforced until you attempt to leave the train without paying.

Roger Tilbury, Worthing,

There is a significant difference between deliberate fare evasion and the inability to purchase a ticket in advance, for whatever reason. South West Trains policy is iniquitous. It is also very cowardly for them to put their staff in the front line in dealing with angry passengers.

I don't have the misfortune to have to use South West trains, but if I did, I would delight in seeing them in court to expose their immoral approach.

William Knight, Gravesend, England

I travel with FGW. They charge so much for bad service. Their concept of customer service is 10 years behind. A lot of times the trains are cancelled or delayed. It is stressful and frustrating for the passengers. Imagine doing that every single day, morning and evenings. They should also add more carriages specially in rush hour. We are all packed like sardines. One time I was fined because the train was full so I had to go to the first class section! I'm glad something is being done. It's about time. Thanks.

Disa Lee, London,

Farcical situation, they should have their franchise removed immediately,this is pure barefaced robbery.

Eric Morfitt, Cahrd, England/Somerset

SWT is appalling. It's very clear to me that the "guards" have no interest in anything other than trying to extract money from passengers. In essence, senior SWT management, by restricting ticket selling facilities, are guilty of theft. They should be prosecuted.

P Williams, London,

I think this policy is quite right. On the London Cambridge route which I use there are always people who will "try their luck" and not buy a ticket, knowing that there is unlikely to be a guard, and then pretend to be honest and come up with all kinds of excuses as to why they don't have a ticket, or why they have a cheap ticket on a peak hour service. As someone paying £3,500 per year for a season ticket, I don't see why I should have to subsidise other people who don't buy tickets. If you don't allow enough time to buy the ticket then simply get the next train; they are not that infrequent.

NB, Cambridge,

Buy a ticket before you board and all the targets are meaningless! You don;t get on a 'plane without a ticket and buy on board, so why on a train?

Stuart Murray, Amsterdam, Netherlands

Bankrupt the passengers, boost Company profits, and, by the way, it is your duty to "save the planet" by going by train.
I cannot think a better way of persuading me to keep off the railways, and go out and buy another car!

P. A. Chandler, Nelson, New Zealand

As a commuter with ONE, I read this story with interest. ONE rarely check tickets during the week and at weekends and on branch lines the guards have refused to check tickets completely because so many young people travel up and down the line refusing to pay and are abusive. As a consequence the trains have become a mobile youth club with extreme levels of anti-social behaviour which other passengersare subjected to and the guards do nothing about. In the meantime a season ticket from Frinton-on-Sea to Liverpool Street costs £4,280 a year. I wonder why there is not the same pressure on ONE to be more vigorous in its fares collection policy.

Janet Golds, Frinton-on-Sea, UK

There is another answer to avoid the queues - buy your tickets online beforehand. Companies such as www.thetrainline.com will post your tickets to you or allow you to collect them from a 'fastticket' machine at the station.

Chris H, Swindon, U.K.

This cannot be any worse than Southeastern Trains as they will fine 15 year children for not being able to purchase a ticket. Our station at Minster Kent is unmanned and does not have an operating ticket machine at the station but that did not stop my son being given a penalty fare notice even though he showed that he had money to purchase a ticket and was willing to do so. perhaps our train operators could do us passengers a favour and send teams to Japan for training where they have a system that would shame them to no end.

Simon Lewis, minster, uk

As a season ticket holder, my ticket occasionally finds itself in the wrong pocket, and I find myself sitting on the train without a valid ticket, and have to buy a new one. SWT only lets me get a full refund ONCE, if I wait in a queue to ask for it within a month of travelling. The second time, the deduct £5 and then I get no refund at all. I've forgotten mine 3 times now, so I have been forced to pay twice for a journey.

Under this plan it gets even worse, and frankly none of SWT's excuses stack up. It is pure opportunistic thievery. And I believe this is all highly challengeable under the OFT's fair contract regulations. If it happens again, I might just test that.

Joe Schmoe, Wiltshire,

Morning,
We travel quite frequently from Tiverton to Reading and Paddington. Last week I had a booked return, and thought it would be ok to go on the train before at 11.05 intead of 13.05 I was charged £58 for the privilege on the train though I had paid to be on the next train. It has since transpired that I could have bought a return for £58, which would have hurt a little less. No options were given to me on the train, the "train manager" must have been on a course.

Richard Paines, Ilfracombe, England

My girlfriend and I experienced this three weeks ago whilst travelling from London Waterloo to Winchester. It was a Sunday and the queue for a ticket machine was over 30mins long. Our train was on the platform and was due to leave in 10 minutes. We asked the guard (who was standing next to our train on the platform) if we could purchase a ticket from him. He said no because one is not allowed to buy a discounted ticket (we have young person's cards) from a guard onbvoard a train. We explained that we weren't technically on the train; we were standing on the platform!

We ended up queing and missed our train. We boarded the next train 40 minutes later which then took over 2 hours to get to Winchester (normally takes an hour) becuase of engineering works.

My girlfriends's family started her birthday lunch without her! Great service all-round!

Dan, London, UK

The French take to the streets. The Americans take legal action. The English don't care. They are far too busy earning money for their next kitchen makeover or loft conversion and using what spare time they have to party. Every country gets the public services it deserves.

Jon, London, UK

A couple of things to note:

the laws that originally allowed railways to be built give these companies immunity, so it is impossible to sue them;

there is a very simple response to this problem (assuming that you can find anyone on duty at the station). The laws make it clear that you can travel on a train without a ticket, and without penalty, provided that you have "authority to travel". This simply means that you found someone working at the station; you asked their permission to buy your ticket on the train; and they agreed. It is a good idea to note the person's name if you do this.

I am puzzled by the article's comment about bank holidays, when ticket offices are often closed. The law is very clear: if you begin your journey at a train where the ticket office is closed, then you are allowed to buy your ticket on the train, and still benefit from railcard discounts, etc.

David Reece, Exeter, UK

How dare these people do this. Commuters in London have enough stress to deal with already. I have had to wait hundreds of times for delayed trains, and when trains are canceled the following one is so crowded it is like a cattle truck. The almighty profit line seems to be the only thing these people care about. Commuters are forced to use these trains because it is impossible to drive into London. How can this be allowed to continue. Stop treating people in this country as if they are inconsequential nothings in their grand money making scheme.

mkiern, shrewsbury, shropshire

If you tell someone they have to pay a full fare or a penalty when you know they actually don't have to, that is attempted fraud and it is a criminal offence. K Wells is right; we love complaining but won't always actually do anything. Suing the rail company is a good idea, but so is prosecuting them if they break the law.

Frank Upton, Solihull,

And you wonder why we choose to drive our cars rather than using sustinable forms of transport? At least we know (for now anyway) how much our petrol, tax, insurance, etc etc cost and can budget accordingly.
Mind, this having been published, I can sniff a "U" turn coming anytime soon ... or SW Trains can probably expect some class action law suits and a huge pile of complaints to resolve - better to employ those staff on the front line selling tickets perhaps?

Godfrey , Birmingham, UK

K Wells - the fact you're proud of America's obsession of litigation speaks volumes. Sort out your abominable protectionist domestic airline racket, before lambasting Brits (who actually live in Britain) for their passive attitude to poor service.

James, London, UK

I think it is an unfortunate combination of profitteering from the train operator and incompetence from the government which is forcing people to drive to work rather than take the trains. I would point out though that I do find South West trains to be very reliable, clean and a pleasure to travel in. I just think that the rail network needs to be more heavily subsidised to provide a truly alternative mode of transport.

William Morris, Farnham, Surrey

My daughter used to travel to work from Bodmin to Truro by train and has experienced this sort of treatment. As a result of this and of the very poor reliability of train services she now travels to work by car. Well done Southwest Trains.

Mike Ayres, Bodmin, Cornwall

Only in rip-off Britain would such an obscenity be tolerated! If the guy is making a profit of £1 million a week, then the Government have clearly not charged enough! Whose interests do the MPs think they have been elected to look after if not the taxpaying consumer?

It is time the UK adopted the, fairer and logical, Continental system of charging a flat rate for each kilometer travelled across the whole network. The TOCs would then have to compete in such exotic areas as quality, comfort and punctuality.

Bill McCann, Suzhou, China

South West Trains has never in the last five years made any effort at all to keep queuing time for tickets down to a reasonable level at Dorchester station, where I frequently board a train to Waterloo. At peak time it is never possible to get a ticket in less than 15 minutes, and although there are two windows, only one is ever open. I have either to buy the ticket the day before, or arrive 20 minutes early

It's actually quite scandalous, and the rail watchdog ought to put a shot across their bows

Michael James, Dorchester, Dorset

And this sort of thing is going to encourage people to abandon their cars for public transport...........................?

The government needs to change its approach, and the approach of these "poor" companies making a fortune from what was once a national asset.

Dav!d, Colchester,

Is the government complicit with this fraud or will it insist on enforcing regulations on queuing times?

Andrew Walworth, Hemel Hempstead, UK

This is an outrage - I was given a penalty fare last year at Plumstead for travelling outside of the zones on my travelcard. I attempted to buy a ticket extension when commencing my journey at South Bermondsey but the ticket office is never open and there is no self-service machine.

Keith Ludeman of Southern and South-Eastern claims to be more understanding but I know this to be rubbish since my journey involved using trains from both operators!

Cale, Peckahm, England

And the government continues to push us to use public transport?
Not me matey. The only way to avoid the thieves and highwaymen of modern Britain is to use your own carraige or walk

Paul Ritchie, Southampton,

Another example of taking the Mick.

ANDREW, HACKNEY, LONDON

Unfortunately trains in this country are among the most expensive ways to get around... Driving your own car is always the cheaper option, unless you buy weeks in advance and travel at lunchtime or at midnight... Trains are operated like amusement park rides rather than transport infrastructure. Sad

Andreas, Penrith, UK

Forget about saving carbon emissions! TAKE YOUR CAR. This behaviour has to be stopped or that is exactly what most people will do. Well done South West Trains

Sue E., Swansea,

I recently moved house, and sent my photo driving licence off to the DVLA for a change of address, they sent the licence back to me at the new address and said the licence was 'defaced' and I would have to buy a 'duplicate' replacement, normally a change of address is free. The licence paper was tatty but not defaced, how long do they expect a piece of paper to last? DVLA will have to replace it to reprint the address so what does it matter, 'duplicate' implies that it is identical when it requires a different address. It is just another example of Blair/Brown mentality of trying to get every last penny from us in Fines/Penalties.

Adam Jarvis, UK,

I'm a Brit' expat living in the USA for 20 yrs. And let me say this, the Yanks would NOT take this CRAP from a rail company, airline or any other business.

Brits wake up: YOU NEED GET LAWYERS TO SUE THE TRAIN COMPANY'S ARSE!!!! Over and over again, until they meet their obligations on ticket sales.

That is the biggest difference I've found from living here for two decades. YANKS DON'T TAKE CRAP from CORPORATIONS. Why should Brit's suffer? But they seem to.

Get active, get lawyers, get sueing. THEN the rail company will show some respect.

K Wells, Los Angeles, CA, USA

Surely this is time for passengers to get organised and force a change in policy through civil disobedience if all else fails.

Does anyone have contact details for a fare action group?

oldasiahand, Manila, Philippines

These are the “benefits” of privatised railway!

M Butani , Ilford,