Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
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Train companies are failing to offer the cheapest fares on their ticket machines, causing thousands of passengers to pay double the correct price.
Several companies in southern England are charging passengers more in this way but the problem is greatest at South West Trains (SWT), the operator exposed this week as having ordered guards to issue as many penalties as possible.
Families and other groups travelling together are particularly affected by the problem with the machines.
Last weekend SWT charged dozens of Falklands veterans on their way to London for the 25th anniversary of the islands’ liberation more than the cheapest fare available.
The companies have chosen secretly not to programme their ticket machines to sell the GroupSave fare, which is meant to be available to any group of three or four people travelling after the morning peak. Under GroupSave, when two adults buy tickets another two can travel free. Staff at ticket offices are obliged to sell the cheapest fare, including GroupSave, even if passengers do not specifically request it. But the law does not extend to machines.
WhenThe Timestried to buy return tickets from London to Weymouth for four people yesterday, the ticket machine charged £212.40 and the ticket office £106.20.
Passengers travelling alone are also unable to obtain the cheapest fares from machines for some morning trains on which those fares are valid. The fares can be obtained only from ticket offices. Only 44 of SWT’s 177 stations have offices open for at least 12 hours a day. Another 105 have part-time ticket offices and 28 have no offices.
SWT has put up signs telling passengers that they must buy a ticket before boarding and that they will be prosecuted if they try to pay on the train, even if there are long queues at machines and offices.
A SWT guard told The Times: “We are regularly finding groups of passengers who have been overcharged by the machines. There are no signs by the machines telling them they could save a lot of money by going to the ticket office.
“People used to be able to get on board and ask us for the cheapest fare. But now they are so terrified of getting a penalty fare that they pay whatever amount the machine says.”
He said that a group of 20 Falklands veterans travelling together last weekend had each paid £10 for their tickets from machines when they should, under GroupSave, have paid only £5. “We have informed our managers of the problem but they tell us to ignore it. They don’t care because the company profits from it.”
Passenger Focus, the rail passenger watchdog, said that it was making a formal complaint to SWT. Anthony Smith, the watchdog’s chief executive, said: “The mad scrabble for revenue is taking priority over the need to offer passengers the full range of tickets. Given the recent 20 per cent fare rises, it is very unfair not to give people a chance to obtain the discount to which they are entitled.”
After being presented with the evidence gathered by The Times, SWT said that it would consider reprogramming its machines to offer the GroupSave discount. A spokeswoman added: “We are looking at adding more options, but then we get advised that the machines are really complicated and people can’t use them.”
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Stop whinging - if you had to drive into the center of London, what would you have to pay in parking and congestion charges? More than £3500 a year I can guarentee. And how much longer would it take you?
You travel by train because it is the easiest and quickest option for you - not because you are doing it out of charity.
If you don't like it, get a job closer to home, or buy a bike.
Colm MacCionaidh, Wales,
It is certainly true that ticket offices will not give you the cheapest fare, even if you ask , whether through lack of training and information, or as a matter of policy. I asked for a week's open peak season ticket from Birmingham New Street to London - the lady at the ticket office inputted it into her computer and said "ooh that's a good price isn't it?". It was £200 odd quid. Had I bought an open return each day which was what she'd originally advised me, I would have shelled out over five hundred pounds that, and every week.
Even £200 is daylight robbery to be honest.
Bella T, Smethwick,
Nothing new here. A year ago First Capital Connect changed the ticket machines in Hitchin station to reject cheap fares for most railcards (including forces and seniors). Anybody who complained was given a refund but FCC didn't change the machines. This went on for 9 months.
I complained to my MP, who wrote to FCC three times. They only replied to the third letter - saying the previous letters hadn't arrived and had been 'lost in the post'. Then - and only then - FCC changed the machines to give the correct fares.
Yes, the company is run by cowboys who deliberately overcharge customers. But think also of the contempt they showed for my local MP. He is democratically elected, but for 9 months they showed him two fingers.
If FCC and other companies think they can treat even MPs with contempt, what hope is there for the rest of us? Particuarly as the regulator is in the pocket of the train operators.
John Farrington, Hitchin,
I'm with you. It is the time for civil disobedience until SWT is brought to book. I recently bought three tickets for myself, my wife and son and was charged on my credit card £80 for less than £20 worth of tickets. Since I am travelling and no longer have the tickets, i'm screwed. SWT should be in the dock for their borderline criminal activities. But do the fat, self satisfied burghers have the bottle to fight them? heel no!
oldasiahand, Guildford, UK
I always buy a ticket - to avoid any discussion with ticket inspectors, who are souless depressing individuals out to get you.
sometimes that means I pay more, but at least I feel secure.
mary, London, UK
Ref: The SWT spokeswomans statement of "We are looking at adding more options, but then we get advised that the machines are really complicated and people cant use them. - Surely it is simple enough to design the machine so you enter your destination, single or return and the number of adults / children travelling, and the machine then gives you the cheapest option. How complicated can this be?
Sound like an excuse to me
Chris, Denham,
I was charged nearly double on Thursday for a return journey between Ulverston and Carlisle. The ticket clerk would not honour the day return fare quoted on the National Rail website. It appears Transpennine Express had hidden that fare from him as well! The rail operator has yet to acknowledge my e-mail of complaint!
Colin Hamer, Ulverston, Cumbria
Why are the train company managers not brought to account. If they have told guards to 'ignore' the plight of the customers they are ripping off, then they should be brought to account. Surely UK law cannot be so flimsy as to not make provision for the crime that these managers are committing? (but then bearing in mind the way most things work in this country these days, nothing would surprise me!)
John Dixon, London, UK
I was in Boston, a train ticket purchsed on the train from Boston to the top of the state of Massachusetts was less then a a single ride on the tube. It's no wonder so many natives are leaving the UK.
NIck Knight, Dublin 15, Ireland
If it's too complicated to use ticket machines when they show all the options, they should simplify the fare structure.
Dave Hinton, London,
I pay SWT over £3500 a year to travel a short distance into London to work and for that money I'd expect a guaranteed comfortable seat and complimentary glass of champage with cucumber sandwiches. The reality is usually sitting on the floor, or crushed by a fellow traveller with B.O., a permanent noisy sniff and noisy mobile ringtone. Whilst I'm a peak time commuter and therefore supposedly only exposed to small % increases in fares, SWT managed a 7% hike in March by bumping the car parking charges. Last month they almost doubled the daily parking charge at my station. What's the solution? If we, the passengers, got organised we could hit SWT where it hurts.. mass non-payment of fares would make them sit up and take notice. But I can't imagine aill the overpaid, over-fed burghers of Surrey and Hampshire having the backbone to fight back.
Simon Holly, Woking,
As a person who suffers from S W T,I feel annoyed by your report concerning over charging of its Train Tickets,but I am not at all suprised knowing how rude and dissmissive the management of the company can be,but what do you expect from people who are not proper railwaymen,Stagecoach are a disgusting firm who should never of been given the new franchise,is it any wonder,with the sort of people at the top, that they behave in this way.
John, Woking, Surrey
The obvious response to the quote from the SWT spokesperson is that if the machines are so complicated it is SWT's duty as a responsible operator to have more ticket office staff available.
Can not improvement in this area be made a condition of SWT continuing to hold the franchise? It ought to be!
Clare Amos, London, UK
Rail companies, especially commuter rail companies, are infuriating. The service they provide is abysmal, but if one complains one is told that they are engaged in "revenue protection" or protecting their "legitimate profit", or loftily informed that the fare one has paid only covers one third of the cost of the journey (the implication being that freeloaders like their customers should just suck up whatever awful service they provide). The truth is that there is no legitimate profit in providing the sort of service they provide - the only legitimate outcome would be their going bust.
Time to take it all back and have it run by not-for-profit agencies.
Jamie, Bolton, UK
Cynical "daylight robbery". Even booking online does not guarantee the cheapest fare. Greed seems to be the order of the day.
Alan Henderson, Whitley Bay, England