It is worth remembering that NATO maintained peace in post war Europe, not the EC/EU!

humphrey, fulton,

We Europeans want to go forward Politically. The UK should decide if it wants to stay or leave. I would prefer it to stay, but I am afraid it will be expelled (the UK little peoples are too stupid) from the EU.

A, Porto, Portugal

I hope people can see this labour goverment for who they truly are - dishonest, disingenious, arrogant & completely out of touch with the electorates. By pretending to the british electorates that this document is a new one insults the intelligence of the british electorates. What the labour govmt is saying to the electorates is that the british electorates is simply stupid & foolish and not intelligent enough to distinguish between the rejected consititution & this new documents. The electortes must not agree to this at all. the electorates must do all that is possible to vote out this dishonest & incompetent goverment called labout. Gordon Brown or not.

Brenden, London, London

Neither Parliament nor the Prime Minister (Government) has any historical authority, other than that unconstitutionally self granted or assumed, to give to any foreign body any right or power over citizens of the United Kingdom.
Parliament, and through them the Government, is a body of individual representatives elected to serve and regulate this country to the benefit of the citizens.
Only by a substantial majority referendum can any change be made to our democratic regulation.

C Goodman, Fareham, England

Sneaky Brown. How long before we can label him sleazy again?

paul turfery, Cork, Ireland

This is OUTRAGEOUS. How much longer must we tolerate this appalling lying tyranncal government - we are heading towards a totalitarian state at an appalling and breathtaking speed, one on which we the people serve only to keep ZaNuLab in power.

Jeremy Poynton, Fromeville, 51st State

Sir Winston Churchill’s idea was an EC with Britain as a founder-member, and de Gaulle’s obstinacy is the point at which the British politicians should have taken issue against the monopolist dictatorship of the French-European stance on “representative democracy” and the un-elected bodies institutions shaped by it. Since then, to my knowledge no single elected British politician has ever tackled this obvious EU obstacle to British commitment to the EC/EU from Edward Heath onwards, apart from the German-British MEP Gisela Stuart! Churchill was in favour of a sovereignty-pooling solution for peace in Europe. Alas, the chance to shape it was missed and we are left as an ever reluctant member of a club with limited influence on it. In the present absence of this commitment, perhaps the German EU MEP, Herr Brok, is merely consistent with the tide of the EU as it really stands, in suggesting recently that Britain should consider quitting. Regards,

Humphrey, Filsch,

Isn't the idea that the 2007 Reform Treaty is virtually the same as the 2004 Constitutional Treaty undermined by the very last line of David Chater's article? Under 'Left Out' it mentions 'the concept of a single constitution'. The 2004 Treaty did merge the two main treaties of the EU, Rome and Maastricht, into one. The new unified EU would be run on more centralist lines. The 2007 Treaty does not merge the treaties, a small but significant difference. So the Amato group is wrong when it asserts that the 2007 Treaty and protocols 'only leave aside the symbolic changes' of 2004. And David Chater misleads when he writes that 'the main objectives of the proposed treaty include the ending of the national veto on large areas ... of policy'. Ending the national veto in many areas is a means, not an end. He could just as well have mentioned that the 2007 Treaty give greater power over EU policy to national parliaments. This complex issue requires more careful analysis than it receives here.

Pete Browning, Kingsclere, Hampshire

The public would feel cheated if it knew how much of our 'justice and home affairs' powers had already been given away to the EU by Blair & Brown. Under the Citizenship Directive, 2004, criminality cannot normally be used as grounds for debarring, say, a Rumanian cashpoint fraudster.

But that was passed under another legal heading.

Similarly, the European Court ruled (Case 22/70) that where EC 'internal' policy has been agreed, it should have a common 'external' (i.e. foreign) policy to support it.

Most areas of everyday life are now covered by EC 'internal policy'.

No-one born after 1957 has had a proper chance to say whether we want to be ruled by Europe; what about giving powers back to Parliament & people, Mr. Brown?

Brian, Fulham, London, UK

It matters, It matters very much Will Richards. It matters very much if the Government signs this Country away for the EU to govern it forever. Just that one thing warrants a complete rejection of the reformed EU Constitution, (Not necessarily a referendum but a rejection) and that is the giving to the EU the Royal Prerogative (Legal Personality) which is entrusted to our Government Ministers by the Crown. It is not in their gift to give The Royal Prerogative away to anyone.
The changing of the name from 'European Union' to "Union" should give us the clue of further widening of the EU to invite Countries other than "European" to enter. Just how many more Countries can we AFFORD to budget for?

Anne Palmer, West Midlands, England

It may have slipped the notice of some that the people are tired of being made fools of. All they have been told about our association with the European Community that it is a Common Market for trade and that there will be no essential loss of sovereignty. Most people remember that. Of late regarding the last two proposed EU Treaties the European Charter of Fundamental Rights has been likened to "The Beano" comic" and both Treaties are in fact, simply "a "tidying up" exercise".

Our own Constitution managed us all very well through hundreds of years and through two World Wars. We were a true united United Kingdom. We fought that war for freedom and not to allow a foreigner to make our laws or govern us.

If the people are not told the true facts of what ratifying the proposed Renamed EU Constitution is really all about then the people may well look to their own Constitution once more and the Declaration of Rights of 1688 in particular. The British Crown comes first.

Anne Palmer, Wolverhampton. , England

"Quack" Brown promised there would be a referendum on the EU treaty issue if he was made PM, it is what we believed would happen and we therefore now DEMAND one.
Are you listening Brown?

Dek Crossingham, Birmingham, England

If we don't have a referendum then we must have an insurrection. The government has forgotten that this is our parliament and our government - we won't give it up without a fight.

Phil Hampshire, London,

The EU an organisation is as about as corrupt as they come. It's sole purpose is to provide a grossly lucrative bolt hole for failed, disgraced, and otherwise incompetent politicians, and to make the lives of those it would aspire to rule over, as miserable as possible. We do not need the EU, and we should leave the EU, and then as well as having a bit more cash to sort out our failing health service and transport system. We would be able to secure justice and peace of mind for people like Frances Lawrence.

steve lloyd, swansea, wales

Friends of mine on the continent have always maintained that the EU has been sold to them for 50 years as political as well as commercial union. The purpose being to avoid another European War as two in the same century was quite enough. They were taught that objective in school. I don't think we can fully appreciate that as we were part of the opposing and victorious side in both conflicts. But some honesty from our poliitcians and journalists would clarify this fundament objective.

The aim of avoiding wars seems laudable, and of course continental countries are making sacrifices as well as what seems to be asked of the UK. I think these should be pointed out as it's all too easy to paint the UK as having to having to undergo almost 180 degrees of legal, social and cultural orientation in order for any further integration to occur, with the rest of Europe somehow progressing seamlessly along the EU path.

Let's have full facts and then a vote, Gordon!

James, Bristol, UK

If the Government have nothing to fear, why not have a referendum?
Gordon Brown says he is listening to the people. This is his chance to show it!
Please dont be another Blair!!

maureen, buenos aires, argentina

if gordon brown is so sure that this new treaty is good for us tell us the facts give us a little time to digest them then have a referendum and see what transpires if he has told the truth things will go his way if not he will soon know the answer
jonahdad

donald jones, stafford, england

Mr Blair appears once again to have been either mistaken or done something to enhance his cv for his future career outside the UK. MP's of all parties appear once again to have left him to enact his meglomania. Blair should, according to legal experts, have been impeached over his misleading statements on Iraq. Having got away with that he carried on behaving without respect for parliment or the British people. When will MP's recognise that they all lose credibility by not holding their leaders to account?

Martin Price, Walsall,

The way out is simple. Tony Blair signed us up to this treaty even though he had already announced his resignation. In substance he was therefor an ex Prime Minister. Brown is now the PM, and by rights he should have been there supervising what Blair was about to tie like a noose round his neck.
Why should we be forced to honour this treaty signed by an ex PM?
We should have a referendum, or I hope Brown will find that one promise too many has been broken. Bring on the UKIP.
We are, by all accounts, a "net contributor" to the EU. i.e. we are subsidising poorer countries. Being in the EU is not a bargain for Britain. The money wasted in the corrupt
EU Parliament could go a long way to making sure that pensioners get a decent pension equivalent to the minimum hourly rate of pay. Mine works out at £2.50 an hour if you count it as a 40 hour week., or less than £2.10 an hour if you go by the 48 hour week imposed by some companies.

Beryl, WINDSOR, England

This is the most dishonest government in history, we should most definately have a vote on the EU.
Personally it is my opinion we should leave the EU and have a trading only "relationship" with the EU, as do some other counties, we would then all be better off. I don't think it would ever happen there are too many from this country on the EU "Gravy Train"

Barry Reed, Hounslow, Middlesex

As 2/3 of the EU states have adopted the "defunct" constitution, it's up to the others to adapt.......or leave. Britain, who has been too happy the French said "NO", should put it to a referendum....and eventually leave the EU if it failed to accept the new rules....that applies to France and the NL as well....you cannot constantly say "no" . If Britain doesn't want to be part of a political EU, let it be.....No one should be forced into accepting something that is considered as going against its interests. The EU has a master plan....It will never be a mere Free Trade Zone.....If Britain or others got it wrong, then you have to draw the appropriate conclusions.
the main aim has always been to create a " Federal union of nation states"....whatever the name, federation, union, confederation....:))

pascal-pierre, Dinan / France, European Uniion

Fair enough! All the countries had given mandate to a group to come with a proposal that was agreed. Once the negotiation was completed, most EU countries approved it! Now, the difference for Britain is that it has been able (unfortunately to my mind) to opt out of several important clauses hence preserving its so called "red line". So, the new agreement is basically the constitution with the UK opting out on sensitive issues...hence, it is fundamentally different for the UK but basically the same for the other countries!

Antoine Songeur, London, UK

Blair never could tell the truth and Gordon Brown's administration suffers from the same syndrome.

Roy Shaw, Nantes, France

The Amato group are only making patently clear what any informed reader already knew. The proposed Reform Treaty is a trojan horse to smuggle the EU Constitution into British Law by the back door of a parliamentary vote. The so called concessions to the UK are not worth even the paper on which they may be written. They are a cynical ploy.

I am an independent voter and a europhile but I am against the EU Constitution. It is unnecessary and has as its only objective an increase in EU bureaucratic power without parliamentary oversight or control, whether it is the EU parliament or that of the UK.

If Gordon Brown does not grant us the right to vote for or against the Constitution by another name then I suggest that UK voters as a whole should regard the next parliamentary election as a substitute referendum and vote for whichever mainstream party opposes approval of the Reform Treaty.

This so called Reform Treaty is an invasion of our sovereignty and should be opposed as such.

Daniel Cramer, Welwyn, Hertfordshire,

I think those of us with our eyes open have been aware of the european creep, facilitated in hushed tones by the labour government under blair. In fact, it probably constitutes the most dishonest thing he's done.

Quite simply, if our nation does not get the referendum now that we were promised a long time ago,there will be no point to it, as we will already have lost much of what a referendum may have protected.

It will not matter, as it rarely does now, which of the major political parties you vote for in future, as any policies they seek to construct will be subject to european approval, and any laws they promise to amend or introduce, will be undermined or weakened by the so-called european court of human rights.
I say 'so-called' as that court has a tendency to give unreasonable consideration to 'rights' of illegal immigrants, terror suspects, and criminals, whilst it appears to give inadequate consideration to the 'rights' of the law-abiding majority. We need our referendum

Will Richards, droitwich,

Whether it's the same or not, let's have a vote on it just to make sure and also to not make liars out of the gevernment.

Phil, Preston,

Why dont the UK media and the Conservative Party be honest about Europe.There main target is to take the UK out of Europe.Lets face up to the issue,The other countries in the EU want the constitution and will move on without the UK. The Tories and media should stop insisting on having a referendum on the constitution and be brave enough to support a referendum for the public to decide whether we go along with the other countries or vote for total withdrawal. I am no fan of UKIP but they are the most constructive party on this issue.

Bill Rees, Truro, Cornwall