The truth is the Nazis lost and they have been demonised ever since the war in a concerted propaganda campaign, of which this 'documentary' is part. How ridiculous to broadcast to the population that they cannot think in contrary political ways. There is only one national socialist state in the world today - Israel!

The allies and russians killed more civillians and POW's than the Germans. I want to see documentaries from THAT persepective.

Robert Halam, Nottingham, UK

I think this is stupid! I am a SS reenactor in Ireland and think that this was offence toward some good men and woman that enjoy it as a hobby!

It offended all most of us....

J, Ireland,

Why is ok to portray menbers of the NKVD or the red army in the reenactments??? I have not see any kind of documentary from the BBC about this guys that like to dress on soviet uniforms and hang around Stalin paintings and slogans. Why is ok to wear around the town a t-shirt with CCCP or the hammer and sickle on it? How about the che Guevara's t-shirt that you can buy at any downtown hyppie store. Stalin and communism kill way more people than Hitler and the NSDAP many of them jews , so why the eternal bad guy has to wear a german uniform. If you guys are in the bussiness of pointing fingers make sure that you guys dont let anybody behind. Including the country that used two atomic bombs against civilian populated areas and the RAF chaps in Dresden.

Thanks

F.Bonmati, New Jersey, USA

Perhaps it would be better if a dark red and a light blue side turned up, realised that they shouldnt fight and instead started a workers commune?

Would that appeal more to the author?

Dominic, Manchester, UK

Genocidal nut-jobs scare me too -- so what's with that statue of genocidal nut-job Cromwell outside the Parliament he dissolved with bayonets?

Mack, Kirbyville, Texas

I haven't seen the show, but have to wonder who makes the decisions at the BBC nowadays. Trying to demonise a bunch of people who re-enact WW2 battles... sending out people with hidden cameras to the beer tent... it sounds like complete rubbish.

John, Beijing (ex-London), China

The SS were a fighting machine that did it.s job very well as did our own elites, yet if we are to say what they did was crimes against humanity, then where do we put the fire bombing of Gernan cities with no war value whats so ever, dropping A bombs on Japan, Russia and China have between them have killed 10s of millions of their own people under the guise of peoples liberation movements. We cannot change the past but at least we can learn from it and find a way to live in peace.

josef, cape elizabeth, maine Usa

What I haven't heard mentioned is that all this "dressy-up" in Nazi uniforms is against the law in Germany and Austria.

No wonder the veteran of the Second World War was upset.

Did he fight for this as a "freedom"?

Thick Brits dressed as the S.S.?

Alan Henderson, Whitley Bay, England

Something that Mr Sweeney failed to pick up upon was that the members of the Waffen SS were punished quite severely after the war, and, in some cases, their trials were not always conducted ina truly legal manner (for example the use of fake executions to extract confessions, sham courts, food deprivation, threatening the families of the men involved etc. See for details Micheal Reynolds "The Devil's Adjutant for details.

Many of the methods used were certainly against international law both then and now.

LUKE WILLEN, NOTTINGHAM, United Kingdom

John Sweeney made me sick with that program, his style of journalism is of the worst kind, he has no skill other than to iritate others into making comments, look at his interveiw with the scientologists, and then this.
Personally speaking as a re-enactor, it is impossible to re-enact a massacre, as the main point of those weekends is to entertain the public, and somehow i dont think that re-enacting the murder of POW's, would go down well with the public.

If John Sweeney decides to turn up at an event that i run, i dont think that he will be made welcome

Matt, Hampshire,

The reality is of course that the more post 1945 society continues to adopt an opposite extreme to Nazi Germany; like Correctofascism (political correctness with its 'positive discrimination'), guilt mongering, apologising for the slave trade, acts of wanton violence and assault against Nationalists passively supported by the state, police and state institutional harrassment and persecution of Nationalist/anti-immigration activists, giving ethnic and religious minority a louder voice than the rest, naively allowing extremism to flourish under the guise of 'faith based' education and demonising the British Empire (look at what replaced it!). The attractive the alternate extreme will seem. Don't forget the USSR (which killed more people than Nazi Germany)changed after winning WWII, so why not the Third Reich if it had won?

Chris Gibbons, LB Sutton, UK

This is shabby story telling not reportig. MANY PEOPLE RE ENACT HISTORY. It is a way of showing people 7 tourists the past. Groups cover bronze age to 20th century era's. can we make a programme & reply, showing groups , who's people cameo GI's , UK , german & Russians. MANY RE BULLD vehicles & wear uniforms as part of the display. At Sheffield this weekend, we all took a ceromony of rememberance , held a 1 min siolence for all the fallen & victims of war, including ALL those of present conflicts. There is no Nazi support in re enactment. Its good fun , whilst being educational & good for tourists. Will channel 4 help us make a programme in reply to this drivell ? Journalist - this BBC ? chap is not. He may yet find he is sued over this , as many in the re enactment world are very angry at the blatent mi representation and deffamation in the programme. We have a right to reply ! Th re enactors show , what evil , we did in fact defeat , so the young realise & learn.

joe B, Leeds,

Stuart and Edward raise some good points. However, there is one big difference between a group of Workd War 2 re-enactors pretending to be Waffen SS and a group of modern day Bradford Muslims re-enacting the actions of the Taleban and that difference is that the latter example is a current war in which British troops are currently engaged.. For one thing it would be a matter of extremely bad taste for this activity to be used as entertainment. The IRA example might be considered far too recent and close to home given that the conflict only ended a couple of years ago. By contrast, World War 2 ended over 60 years ago.

However, I think everyone who has commented on this issue would agree that the sale of some of the items availlable such as the concentration camp trolley was wrong and has little to do with historical re-enactment. What is needed is better control by the organisers of such events which still have a value in that they teach us something about the past.

LUKE WILLEN, NOTTINGHAM, United Kingdom

BBC could stand for biased bigoted and childish. It amazes me but each week they seem to manage to pull the rabbit out of the hat and make themselves even more contemptible. When I was young I was told how the BBC stood for impartality and accuracy and balanced news reporting. Were they ?

Bob, Brussels, Belgium

Seeing is not always believing:- I was at the War & Peace show and witnessed Sweeney provocatively pushing his mike into the faces of the re-enactors concerned. I was also quite alarmed at the way that he was being filmed by his crew, speaking to thin air as if he was interviewing somebody.
If the BBC can edit footage of the queen to make her appear foolish, surely they wouldn't do it to German re-enactors as well? I also understood that they were sending female 'undercover reporters' into the beer tents, looking for inebriated re-enactors and starting inflammatory conversations themselves, most of the participants, otherwise, would only normally talk about women, football and beer. Unfortunately, the foreign 'Combat 18' types who appear at these shows also allign themselves with stallholders who come from abroad, they have no connection or afilliation to any of the re-enactment groups present. However, another careful BBC 'edit' inferred membership of said re-enactment groups

Kevin, Essex, UK

Perhaps Mr Sweeny should have used the budget he had for this production ito expose an issue which actually does cause major issues in Britain today ie. gang culture and the growing issue of gun crime. After the events of the last few days perhaps bringing these issues to prime time television would have been a more effective use of the license payers cash. Oddly, the likelyhood of Mr Sweeny being actually physically harmed at the War and Peace (even by the SS) was virtually nil, whilst were he to approach any form of gang on some bleak council estate and ask questions he may not be so lucky (even with a film crew). I agree that some people will find the SS uniforms distateful, and that a very, very small number may hold extreme right wing views, but we live live in democracy, that means we have to tolerate views different to our own. God forbid if any of the "Roundhead" re-enactors in the UK were to hold puritain views!! Next time pick a harder target; cheap TV is never good.

Robert, Dumfries, Scotland

What I find more disturbing than a bunch of closet neo-nazi inadequates playing bang-bang, is the amount of people here who have rushed to defend them with such crass, half-thought out excuses as 'you hear worse down a pub'. Oh that's alright then.

I've attended the military fair featured for seven years now and I do find it strange how many people want to strut around in jackboots. The ratio seems to be 50% German re-enactors, 40% US paratrooper re-enactors and 10% British re-enactors. What's so wrong/unappealing about being the Tommy? By being a re-enactor you are, in effect, paying tribute or remembrance to that soldier and his cause. That's the reason why people find SS re-enactors so objectionable.

The scene where the German re-enactor was punching swastikas over the queen's head on the 50p coin and David Irving's stall which was housed in a tent that openly sold neo-nazi propaganda and racial literature, cannot even pretend to be 'educationally historical' as several said

Edward Jex, Leicestershire, UK

If one studies, in detail, the history of World War 2, whether this be the history of the conflict in general and the military history of the war in Europe one will inevitably have to consider the combat role of the Waffen SS.There were units at every level of military competance varying from the armed thugs of the 36th SS Waffen Grenadier (whose men were recruited largely from prisons, penal battalions and other dross whose main role was to put down the Warsaw uprisng during which many atrocities were committed against civillians. When the Russians captured this unit they shot the lot) to the highly trained, motivated and combat effective Liebstandarte division. It was units such as Liebstandarte that, whatever else, did much to delay the eventual Allied victory and fought withgreat courage, often verging on the fanatical and sometimes with great tactical skill.

Re-enactment is a way in which the memory and lessons of history can be taught to young people. Tell the whole truth.

LUKE WILLEN, NOTTINGHAM, United Kingdom

NB for all those who seem to emphasise the freedom of speech aspect - would you be happy with a group of Bradford Muslims re-enacting a group of Taliban fighters - or Kilburn Irishmen an IRA Flying Column or Provo ASU from the 70s? I agree that most of these BBC progs are rubbish (I used to work for a Govt dept that was subject to equally sloppy journalism) - but it is relevant if groups are being undermined by neo Nazis - maybe at the moment militant Islam is the main issue so that mosques and youth groups being infiltrated by them is most relevant - but I don't want Nazis in this country either and there is a public interest argument if such groups are using such fronts - just as it was in the case of some of those wallies who espoused racist views in the program about the police

Stuart, Liverpool,

PS - there were not 2 Muslim Waffen SS divisions - there were in effect 3:

13th Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS 'Handschar' (Kroatische Nr1) recruited from Croats (many of whom were Muslim as these had fromed the famous Grenzer units of the Austro-Hungarian Army - they wore fezzes a la Tommy Cooper and had own Imams

21st Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS 'Skanderberg' - formed from Albanians who were mainly Muslims (I know that there are also Albanian catholics btw). Wore skull caps and had own Imams

23rd Waffen Gebirgs Division der SS 'Kama' (Kroatische Nr2) -recruited from Croats (many of whom were Muslim as these had formed the famous Grenzer units of the Austro-Hungarian Army - they wore fezzes a la Tommy Cooper and had own Imams

Stuart, Liverpool,

I attended this years War and Peace Show in Kent as did 100,000 others. I am a WW2 Armour enthusiast as well as having a healthy interest in WW2 in general. I wouldn't say I am eccentric, I am ex military like a large number of like minded people.
The facination with the SS is not sinister at all, their behaviour in the war was fanatical and personally I find disgusting, however, that aside the SS demonstrated that they were probably one of if not the most effective fighting formations in WW2. People like to dress up and re-enact as the SS as they are believed to be the finest fighting force of the war. Additionally and of importance to re-enactors is that they had great looking uniforms and the best German equipment and weapons.
I'm not a re-enactor, however, if I was to become one then being a Brit, I'm afraid I would not re-enact as a British soldier purely because of the uniform and equipment - have you seen the Bristish uniforms of WW2? Lets face it the NAZIS knew how to dress!

Conrad, Newark, UK

Furthermore, whoever wrote the above article does not know their military history. On D Day, no Waffen SS troops were actually engaged in combat.

There were two Waffen SS divisions immedietly available to the Germand in Normandy on June 6 1944.12th SS, who were deployed closest to the landing beaches spent the fasy concenrating around Evercy iowing to a mixup of orders and did not see combat until 7 June in the Buron area against the Canadians. Liebstandarte was not available until the nd of the month seeing its first action in Normandy during Operation Epsom 2nd SS Panzer Corps did not arrive in Normandy until June 22.

While it is true that there were atrocities committed by the Waffen SS against both Allied POWs and French civillians during the Normandy campaign there may be some explanation for this in the ferocity of the fighting and the activiites of the French resistance, who were regarded as terrorists by the Germans. That however does not excuse Oradour.

LUKE WILLEN, NOTTINGHAM, United Kingdom

Listen,

You are looking for a story that does not exist. It is a War and Peace show and I would expect American, British, French, and German re-enactors to be at the shows doing there thing. Most of these men are not Nazis but just wanting to be a part of history and want to learn more about it. Why dont you ask American veterans about the shooting of prisoners when they landed at Normandy, its only fair.

Jim Kozuch, Arlington, Texas, USA

As a long standing member of the SBG, who attends every event they do, I feel I have to say something in defence of the group and its Chairman. In all my years with the group the Chairman and senior officers have done everything possible to weed out racists etc. At training days all new members are given a long lecture about the type of people who are not accepted by the group (Racists etc). But obviously as in every walk of life, people have their views. I do not hear racist remarks by members of the group wether it be on our displays or in the beer tent. Biased you might think! Well let me tell you, my wife of 25 years, and my children are black. We have other members with black, Jewish and chinese girlfriends. Weekend Nazis! NO! Just a great bunch of lads who enjoy what we do and have a fantastic time together. My wife has been to our shows and has been made most welcome. I hope this puts the record straight for some of you doubters out there.

peter Knight, Chelmsford, Essex

I wonder if there's also a re-enactment group that represents the bomber crews that destroyed Dresden? What about Red Army re-enactors, specifically those from asiatic regions of Soviet Union? You know, those that raped and pillaged throughout occupied Germany. We could also have re-enactors depicting Red Army troops that raped every woman in liberated concentration and death camp. Or for instance Commonwealth re-enactors that will be shooting German paratrooper re-enactors in the air while the weapons of paratroopers would still be in containers (Crete 1941)?

Also where are re-enactors depicting allied high command, ordering that no German paratrooper and SS soldier is to be taken prisoner while re-enacting battle of the Bulge?

J. Lambertsen, Denmark, Denmark

I have no problems whatsoever with anyone wanting to portray a German soldier from WWII. It's just dead obvious why anyone wants to portray a member of the SS. There are several very good non-political "German" groups in Europe and elsewhere, my experience is that SS-groups attract the sort of people that are more supportive of revisionist views. One feature they at least all have in common is the lame excuses they come up with" Yes, the Nazi's have done horrible things, but the Americans..." "Sure, atrocities were committed, but you know what the Russians did...?" etc., and the assurance that "it's not all black and white in war, you know..." Like that would make up for the milions of victims, let alone the shameless plunderiung of occupied territories the nazi's are guilty of.

I find it quite horrific to see neo-nazi's infiltrating in what is a beautiful hobby, and I intend to keep away from it as much as possible.

Marc Geerdink-Schaftenaar, Den Helder , Netherlands

Any conscript who serves in uniform deserves respect. Many millions of brave men and women, on all sides, lost their lives furthering the ideals of their leaders. Quarrels with the cause they are obliged to further are with the people who send them.

David Masu, Zürich,

I pay a licence fee for that drivel???.

Jock, Essex,

I spent 10 days at a past War & Peace making a broadcast doc. I heard casual racist and xenophobic conversations in equal quantities from all camps at the show, the German and Allied. You can hear the same in corners of most pubs in the UK, its everywhere not just at War & Peace.

Please dont take the snapshot presented by Mr Sweeney as representing W & P, there are 3000 re-enactors and hundreds of thousands of visitors who could show you another side.

M. Jeffs, Newton Abbot, Devon

The sooner we shy away from the past, the sooner stuff like this will happen again. The ss guys only really portray the ss beacuse you can't relive history and teach people without both sides being represented. I am a british re-enactor and the ss re-enactment guys are perfectly fine towards us and my unit and one of the guys is indeed Jewish. Ok, if there are people who are Neo-Nazis and they have infiltrated this unit, then they should be kicked out of it. All of the SS units i know about do not tolirate people using the unit to futher their own belifes and i know these guys will find out who has been expressing these veiws.
With the comments so far the words
"We are the angry mob,
we read the tabliods every day,
we like who we like ,
we hate who we hate,
but we're also easily swaid."

from a song come to mind.
Give these Guys a break!!!!!!!! Thank you to Daniel Seagraves, Peoria, for your good points.

Robert Weststone, Milton Keynes,

I absolutely agree with Leonard Bullhock - I saw the program and was astounded at the narrow-mindedness of it all... yes, those people interviewed are probably racist (through ignorance) and if that was the sole point of the program then well done Sweeney... but sadly, you could have gone into any village pub or town social club in this country for similar ingnorant xenophobic comments - I equally abhor facism - I strongly believe 'Combat 18' and the like are evil.... but pinning an entire argument on the SS' massacres is not enough - tommies also shot unarmed POW's because they didn't fancy taking them all the way to the rear - read Armageddon by Max Hastings - fascinating insight into the heroism and dark acts perpetrated by both sides... got to remember the cultural and social conditioning of these SS group members and (grudginly) respect their unquestioned abilities as professional soldiers...

Richard, Cambridge, UK

M. D., Munich, Europe

Yes, we have heard about that this "European reenactment declaration". Pity that one of the people behind it, who reenacts a German Paratrooper forgot that the LUFTWAFFE (of which one of the instigators of this "declaration" was a NATIONAL SOCIALIST invention! Hypocrite.

This is revisionism at its worst. You dont like aspects of YOUR history, then you choose to "forget" and sanitise it. You are no less of a revisionist than David Irvine.

Typical German really. Trying to tell others what to do, and how to do it. Didnt work in 1914, didnt work in 1939. Wont work now....

J.K., Bracknell, UK

I am in no way defending the SS but I would like to point out that Mr. Sweeney conveniently leaves out of his story the fact that NO country participating in WWII is completely innocent of battlefield atrocities. Japanese sailors machined gunned in the water after their ship is sunk, German soldiers shot after surrendering, and so on. As always it is only the history of the victors that is accepted as the truth. As a retired Army officer I am well aware of this fact.

Jim Kindred, Corinth, MS

What was the point of that documentary?

I think John Sweeney and the BBC should get some perspective. Did this subject really deserve prime time television? My grandfather fought in North Africa and Italy to allow me the freedom to do what I want, subject to being within the law. Surely the same applies here: although a little weird, all we have is a group of men dressing up and re-enacting wartime battles. If John or the BBC could provide any hard evidence of anything sinister other than bar room talk please bring it forward.

This hardly makes cutting edge journalism.

Chris, Bedford, UK

Perhaps you can't have WWII re-enactments without Germans, but there were plenty of rank-and-file German soldiers (my grandfather being one of them) with no ties to the Nazi Party or its ideology. These guys strike me as the sorts of garden-variety white-supremacist apologists in North America who are too cowardly to expose themselves as the pathetic losers they are and instead choose to hide behind the military trappings of an equally pathetic, happily defunct political movement. Racists are basically people who have *nothing* to be proud of other than the fact that they're not X (black, Jewish, foreign, gay, etc.),

Felicity Price, Calgary, Canada

I thought the German guy made a good point, on why people choose the German uniform - the Nazis understood image - and made striking uniforms.

Also the Waffen-SS were seen as excellent soldiers with strong characters - Michael Wittmann, Kurt Mayer.

Steven V, Cambridge, UK

S. CRANE, DALLAS, TEXAS USA

...The SS had two Islamic divisions (64000 men each) in WWII. If you want to wear the uniform and talk history do it. I would add do it accurately....

Mr Crane, what is the source of your information re 2 Ismaic Divisions in the SS? Would really appreciate if you would share your source.

seth taylor, cambs, uk

When you're playing cowboys and injuns, somebody has to be the injuns. And yeah, those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

John, El Paso, Texas

This article is highly disingenuous. Like a previous poster has said, you can hear far worse things said in the pub on a Saturday night. No context was provided for the comments made by Glen Swallow - given that he is ex-Army and probably served in a number of theatres, the 'Africans' he was referring to were probably other peace-keeping forces who have a particularly poor reputation - rather than black British soldiers. The comment by itself did not make sense. As for his anti-Muslim comments, these were no different from the things any non-Muslim might say in the heat of the moment after a few drinks, especially in the light of recent events.

Given that everything was in darkness - how convenient - the other 'reenactor' could have been a dupe armed with BBC beer money.

It should also be added that not every Waffen-SS soldier was a war criminal who shot POWs in the back. By the same token, I wonder if Sweeney might have asked the Gulf War group to show off their 'Abu Ghraib' scene?

Rick Joshua, London, UK

Sweeney seems to be a bit full of himself. The people who participate in war reenactments are rarely the same people who would sympathize with them - it's likely the other way around.

Additionally, Sweeney seems to have taken up the torch of Speech and Thought Nazi. Who cares what Irving thinks? He has a basic human right to say or think whatever he wants, so long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others. I think the Holocaust happened, but I'd deny it just to highlight the right to do so.

Kha, Belvidere, Illinois

stikes me the nazis were expert at propoganda and twisting the truth to excite the masses aginst the real threat by use of the media and clever editing

it seems mr sweeney is a bit of a expert on some of the nazi traits
ive met these guys and they are just guys who enjoy what they do
and as far as i know there were and have never been any massacres ate the war and peace show .

and by the way the russians massacred rather alot of their own side
how come he hasnt had a go at thier reenactors in the spirit of unbiased reporting or am i missing the point ?

K. Howard, southport,

As a visitor to the UK, and a collector of militaria, I visited the War and Peace show in Kent last month. I saw the display of the people accused of being Nazi's. I have to admit that I have not seen a finer collection of original militaria and vehicles anywhere else. As for comments by their members, you cant condem an organisation of 300 people (according to their website) because of the comments of a couple of people.
I also note on their website that they have been in existance for near on 30 years and have done countless film work for the BBC and others, so they cant really be that bad can they?
It would seem these people have been provoked into saying something, just as anyone could have been.
BTW, whilst I was looking at their display, a saw a British WW2 vet (I found out later he was a vet) recieve a large donation of cash that had been collected and donated by these people for comemoration projects.
Doesn't sound like something a group of Nazi's would be doing, does it.

Steve, Cambridge, New Zealand

I know its kind of controversial but admittedly the SS were excellent soldiers. Like the Luftwaffe they were at least as good if not better trained and equipped than anything the allies had. The nazi regime was of course extreme and the treatment of jews was appalling to say the least.
I`m British, and proud of it but find it difficult to understand why people believe it was only the germans that were the bad guys. Holocaust aside we were as bad. Its war. Carpet bombing of Dresden? approx 750,000 german civilans burned to death. In reality thats a war crime. One of many but because it was us there is no mention of it.
Some of the attitudes are right wing on the programme but in reality that can be heard in most workplaces up and down the country. Not that i agree with any of it but i`ve heard worse.

Leonard Bullhock, Glasgow, Scotland

So a few guys dress in old uniforms and say some pretty dumb things - it hardly deserves this treatment from our bold invesigator.

This crowd turned up for some re-enactment event near where we live - about ten miles from there is a council estate dominated by gangs, drugs and a gun and knife culture.

Now tell me Mr Sweeney - which do you think is the matter for greater concern?

M, Berkhamsted,

If thats what it takes to make you shiver
dont go out on the streets today its not nice out there

K. Howard, southport, england

I've never seen the attraction of dressing up in a German uniform but I thought Sweeney's docu was very poor. I've been to the War and Peace Show many times and the average attendee is far less racist and far better educated about history than you would find on the average British street.

I was disappointed that the programme made the War and Peace Show out to be about racism, it isn't, it is about military history. Any gathering of 100,000 people will unfortunately have a small number of racists present.

I do agree with Sweeney that holding extreme right views and dressing up in German WW2 uniforms is very worrying but I thought his film made little attempt to investigate that. His immediately confrontational approach scares people into silence before we have a chance to hear what they have to say. He then narrates his own opinion over the top of footage of them trying to get away from him. I'd like to see a Louis Theroux film on the same topic!

Mike, London,

I think its a more than fair point saying its completely wrong what a lot of the SS did to the Jewish people etc in the 2nd World War, there is no justifying their actions what-so-ever, but the point of re-enacting is to not commemorate or boast those parts of the war but to remember the side of the German army who were brave fighting men, who risked their lives for what they believed to be correct. the point that the majority of the re-enactors want to get accross is that their were as many brave men on the germans side as there was in the english, who they themselves would not of agreed with what went on, and not remembering or acknowledging what they did would be disrespectful, they may have killed our ancestors, but at the end of the day they were doing their job as much as our grand fathers/ fathers where going theirs.

Lewis Phillips, Maidstone, Kent

We most never forget the dead from World War 2. I'm just glad that my granddad ex LRDG was not a round to see these "reanactment Nazis" They are not only an insult but a scary reminder how people can "forget" things to suit thier own ends. My hushand dose reanactement of a D Day Beach Marster. But it is done with great accucy and repect. which is how it should be.

D HARDY, MIDDLESBROUGH, UK

This article confirms concerns that have been discussed within the European WWII living history scene for a while already. Therefore a couple of European re-enactment groups that are aware of the problematical situation regarding neo nazis or neo fascist revisionist within the WWII living history and re-enactment community have published an international WWII Living History Agreement in 2007 (http://au.geocities.com/wwii_lh_agreement/) where they disassociate from portraying NS party or NS party-related organisations. The disassociation also includes the boycott of events where such groups are permitted like it is the case in Kent. These groups feel that there is a big difference in portraying regular Wehrmacht units or portraying criminal racist NS-organisations like the SS which can’t be done authentically and without playing down their true role if you leave out racism, crimes and terrorism. There are many more arguments speaking against the portrayal of NS organisation which are explained at the website mentioned above. The agreement had received a lot of hatred attacks including open threats by those who favour NS re-enactment. By the way, no British re-enactment has joined the agreement so far – but the people who have initiated the declaration have received most violent threats from British re-enactors.

M. D., Munich, Europe

I must say that the programme, and the article, seem to be be forgetting the sheer popularity of the hobby, and it's appeal to many sectors of the community. If one were to dissect any fairly random group of 100,000 people, you are going to find those with racist views - singling them out and painting the rest of them in such a manner strikes me as somewhat mercenary and rather needlessly sensationalist. Having asked some of the Waffen SS groups questions about some of the atrocities in the past to satisfy my own curiosity, I have found them honest and forthcoming, and do not glamourise nor attempt to hide such aspects of the war and the unit they portray, and are a credit for the hobby. Indeed, at one event, I have come across one unit that was purposefully attempting to recruit black and South Asian members, so that the African and Indian troops who served with the British would not be forgotten.
All soldiers have a right to be remembered, not just those who won.

J. Cohen, Brighton, UK

If dressing up as a Nazi is so innocent, why was a senior member of this group not prepared to make any comment when interviewed? Why was one of them so interested in causing violence to the interviewer? If they are so innocent and just playing a role, why is it clear that when one of them is secretly filmed, overtly racist comments are made? This was only one individual who made such comments; I wonder how many others would do so also. There are ways to educate children about the war and the evil events associated with it, but this is certainly not it. Anyone with any decency whatsoever would not wish to dress up like a Nazi (including Prince Harry). Perhaps if any of the individuals posting on here had relatives (including children) killed in the gas chambers and tortured to death by Nazis, they would not be so understanding. Be in no doubt, these people were sick, evil individuals and some of those people impersonating them in such a manner, WILL be also.

Dr M Williams, Bristol, UK

I don't believe Nazism should be expunged from history. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. Forgetting what happened merely allows the guilty to escape their crimes. If they want to wear SS uniforms and behave in an SS manner for the purpose of a war re-enactment or historical reasons, then they should be allowed and encouraged to do so. Visual representation is the best form of education and so many children these days don't remember those who served and died or why they did so. Anything that helps awareness of this is commendable. But if they want to be the new SS and resurrect Nazism, they need to be stopped.

Daniel Seagraves, Peoria, IL, USA

Do these comments really surprise anyone? Just look at their websites and forums. All guts and glory, only talk about the "best soldiers in the war", the "true fighters for a united Europe" and more outright revisionist lies. Not a single word about the atrocities and war crimes. The Waffen SS was declared a criminal organisation not out of a victor's mentality, but for good reason.
In General re-enactors are harmless souls who like to dress up and play war but here the naive, childlike innocence displayed by many of these people is counter productive.
These people are uninformed at best and dangerous. Dangerous because they promote the clean image of tough soldiers like all others and whitewash the history they claim to preserve. The true face of the Waffen SS can never be properly portrayed by any reenactor, but it is not surprising to see that some of these modern weekend warriors embrace the same politics as those which lead to the holocaust of World War 2.

A. Hingerl, Landshut, Germany

Very interesting report, and not surprising to find that some members actually believe in the idology expoused by the Nazis and embodied by the SS.
It is important to remember that the vast majority of the Waffen-SS soldiers were neither volunteers nor members of the Nazi Party and this includes Hitler's bodyguard regiment the LAH.
As early as 1942 the LAH received large transfers of Luftwaffe ground crews into their ranks to make good losses suffered on the Russian Front. (See General M Reynolds' book "Steel Inferno.")
Most probably join this group because of the "cool" looking uniforms - the Nazis did have a keen fashion sense. Others are no doubt attracted by the battlefield exploits of the Waffen-SS which were often quite amazing.
However...
While one might make the case for the innocence of an individual member, or admire the battlefied courage of a particular unit, these are forever tainted by the cause they served and the crimes they committed in that service.

D Reinke, Los Angeles, USA

If more reporters tackled the subjects that Sweeney does maybe there would not be so much TV 'soul searching' at Edinburgh from pompous Paxman and the like.

Sweeney always finds unique subject matter such as the recent docu where he tackled a religious sect. In that instance he apologised for losing it. I can't think why - it was docu-reality television at its best.

I'll be switched on to this - keep up the good work Mr Sweeney!

B Moffatt, Michael, Isle of Man

Guy calm down. People buy and sell slavery items in shops and online - including many african-americans! The same for items from the confederacy during the american civil war. Hell, there is even a HUGE statue to Jefferson Davis is southern ky. The point is that its HISTORY. Now, if people go about diseminating nazi propganda - then you can write your little "Hey, there are nazi's over there!" articles. unless any of the individuals you claim to have interviewed were thin, multi-tatooed, shaved-headed short hoodlums, then I would'nt be worried mate.

Harry, Sellersburg,

Look forward to Sweeney including in his future expose the WW2 Muslim SS Division Handschar.

But given the BBCs and Labour Government current obsession with Islamics in the UK (Muslim Friends of Labour anyone?) I won't be holding my breath.

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_collaboration.htm

Norman, Benfleet, England

I think I'm missing the point here, but surely at a second world war re-enactment, someone has to play the bad guys!

R S, Belfast,

Pretty one sided documentary I`d say. Why is it only the Nazis commited war crimes? We ALL did it. Carpet bombing of Dresden? Nearly a MILLION civilions burned to death by THE ALLIES, buts thats ok. So was killing millions of civilans in Japan by nukes. Thats different of course.
I`m British, have served in the the Armed forces and the attitudes aired on that programme are , in reality, pretty much common place in most workplaces throughout Britain. I know this is kinda controversial but there is two sides to every story.
I don`t for one minute condone any of the Nazi attrocities and if i was took back in time to 1939 I`d be on this side of the fence, no question. I just don`t find any of it shocking. War sadly is shocking, but as long as theres men, there`ll be wars.

Leonard Bullhock, Glasgow, Scotland

I have been doing reenactments and living history of a variety of eras. It always surprises me that there are so many SS reenactors out there. They didn't make up a majority of men on the field for the Germans. Of ten German reenactment organizations I know of here in my area, there are nine SS units and one Whermacht.
There's even a Hitler Youth organization that only accepts teenagers. I can understand the viewpoint of the common Whermacht soldiers on the ground, the average German, but the SS were far from that. Frankly, as a living historian, I don't understand it at all.

Kyle Dalton, San Diego, California, USA

Adriaan of South Africa wrote:

"Dressing up in a British uniform will also suddenly make you a representative of an organisation responsible for atrocities and war crimes. It's a matter of perspective."

Interesting. Please tell us more about the atrocities and war crimes committed by both the Waffen SS and British Army during World War II, so we can put the relative worth of these organisations, at the period in question, "in perspective".

Dominic, London, UK

It is unfortunate that Mr Sweeny approached this subject with such a biased opinion. This, together with poor interview procedures, sensationalist statements and a lack of research (even down to not knowing the difference between politcal SS, Waffen SS, and ordinary Werhmacht units and uniforms), meant that both the programme and the above artical are a waste of time.

It is also dissapointing that both Sweeny and certain other journalists/comentators have been using the term "Nazi" at every opportunity, in an attempt to convince us that all of the German uniforms and reenactors were just that.

Indeed, the fact that the only three people in the programme who you could describe as "Nazis" were all foriegn would suggest that far from Sweeny's opinion that the wwii reenacting scene in England is a hotbed of extreme right wing ideology, it is in fact no different to any other period currently being reenacted. Eccentric - yes, fascist aryan supremecists - no.

J.Elliot, London,

Should be no mystery why a history buff & reenactor would want to play that part - the SS troops had the best toys and coolest uniforms. Who cares about politics? That takes all the fun out of it.

Ben Hoff, New Jersey, USA

I caught the tail end of the programme and it did seem to be making 'a mountain out of a molehill'. It struck me as slightly odd that a BBC reporter should be going around baiting the SS 'actors' with questions about war crimes! I thought that just about every conflict in history included atrocities and war crimes, usually committed by both sides. If re-enactments could only be carried out by sides that were innocent they would all have to be banned. I came across some saxons and vikings in the local park recentlt - don't they realise that the vikings went in for rape, pillage and desecration?

I'm sure there are far more sinister forces at work in this country that the BBC could more usefully investigate... maybe they should take a leaf out of the book of the Channel 4 programme Dispatches. Channel 4 seems less obsessed with political correctness.

Andrew brown, derby, uk

I agree with John Sweeny on most of his points. There was some good old truth bending by way of camera work and editing but he was being blatantly provocative for the sake of the camera I thought - and he was way too agressive interviewing others, no wonder people shied away.

I collect original Third Reich relics and was at the War & Peace show this year, and yes, some of the items for sale there were truly awful; Hitler tea mugs, concentration camp trolleys and SS Deaths Head brollys for the love of God...the people who buy these almost certainly will have some kind of sympathy with the politics of the TR. Sticking a TR symbol on an everyday object is just pathetic - no one with any historical knowledge would buy this tat.

Having an interest in military history does not mean you agree with right wing polices of 1930's Germany as a historian I am dissapointed that there were no intelligent reenactors interviewed to give a balanced view, they have hung themselves and I'm glad.

Jody Thomas, Bristol, UK

Isn't it interesting how reporters seem to always find the "odd ball" during their research and then make it look like the broad majority is like that? Don't quote the exception Mr. Sweeny but state the accurate truth, even when it is a lot less spectacular!
The Ocean may have a brown kelp leaf swim in it, but it is still blue!

S.W., Lexington, KY

The SS recreationists get uniforms designed by Hugo Boss, the mystique of Nordic beauty, and the mythos of paganism. The British recreationists get uniforms made of khaki-painted burlap, the mystique of a chipped enamel mug, and the mythos of Dad's Army.

Felix, Nottingham,

Dressing up in a British uniform will also suddenly make you a representative of an organisation responsible for atrocities and war crimes. It's a matter of perspective.

Adriaan, Johannesburg, South Africa

Sweeney: “Why is it impossible in England in the 21st century to answer my questions?”

Given the fact that the BBC is now part of the Labour's PC Thought Police, I would have thought the answer was obvious. Some people dress up in fancy dress for a bit of harmless fun, and get hounded by a self-styled "investigative journalist" on suspicion that they are not diverse enough or hold views which do not fit the prevailing multi-culti orthodoxy.

Call this a free country?

Daoud, Newport, UK

Saw the documentary last night. I think the issue of the motivation of re-enactors is largely superfluous. In a society where we value free speech, people should be allowed to have a view, however odius or unpalatable - and that includes the off-duty police officer (although there is clearly no place in the constabulary for nazi sympathisers, and if a membership connection with any group with racist sentiments can be shown he should be unceremoniously booted out of the force).

The interesting question is whether, next year, the organisers
of the W&P show will do a better job of policing the items on
sale - ie slap a ban on the sale of overtly nazi/racist material that, not only gives offence to most, but which is clearly in
contravention of recently passed laws on inciting racial conflict.
Regardless of the law, they could always slap a ban on the display of all swastikas with the exception of those on uniforms.

Over to you Beltring committee . . . .

NGB, Peterborough, Cambs

Having seen the programme yesterday I was not at all surprised at the reaction of the reenactors who were "interviewed". Someone they did not know put a camera in their faces and started trying to implicate them into being conspirators in the Fourth Reich. Hardly surprising that they were less than forthcoming when questions were put to them. The tone of the programme was infantile and tried to portray the reenactors as overgrown children playing at war or hardened neo nazis.

Reenacting is a hobby in the same way that fishing or tiddlywinks are hobbies - the reenactors have an interest in military history which they choose to take further than the armchair. Nothing harmful about that.

Tom , Cambridge, UK

I'm a German WWII reenactor in the US. Wehrmacht, not SS. Our group is a fairly large one and frequently holds reenactments, but the SS usually aren't invited. We try to represent what the average German soldier was like, who mostly were not Nazis but merely normal men just like the soldiers of the US or British Army. The fact of the matter is that the SS were not you're average soldiers, they were diehard Nazis. The SS groups in the area stress the fact that they aren't neo-Nazis and such, but one must ask the question "If you aren't a neo-Nazi, why are you impersonating the SS? Why not Wehrmacht or non-SS panzer divisions? Afrikakorps? Luftwaffe, or Kriegsmarine?" You have to ask yourself what the incentive is for these people.

Pat, Philadelphia, USA

The Waffen SS is a complex historical issue. There were divisions who were no more tham thugs in uniform. The SS Panzer divisions however were highly motivated through Nazi indoctrination and had excellent military training. It was primarily due to the efforts of I and II SS Panzer Corps that the Britis took so long to capture Caen and to break out of the Normandy bridgehead. Had Rommel and his successor, Von Klge not been constrained by Hitler's idioic orders the costs of the liberation of Europe might well have been far higher. Units of the Waffen SS including LAH and the Hitler Jugund (12th SS) divisions committed war crimes largely battlefield executions as at the Ardenne Abbey or at Malmedy but Allied troops may also have killed German POWs. Many of these crimes were however committed in the heat of battle and may perhaps be better understood in that contect. However, the SS also were guilty of crimes against civillians as at Oradour but there were certain factors behind these.

LUKE WILLEN, NOTTINGHAM, United Kingdom

I was at this event yesterday, and while most of the stalls are manned by people with nothing more sinister than an interest in history, there were defnitely shops with more questionable mechandise. If the organisers tried to "police the stalls" as they claim, how can they account for T-Shirts emblazoned with SS Logo's, and the infamous motto "Blut und Unhre" (Blood and Honor). I even spoted an umbrella emblazoned with Deaths Heads. I cannot see any possible, historical justification for such things, and if they were joke items, they were in extremely poor taste.

For me, this otherwise brilliant event was damaged by this Nazi edge. Having overheard numerous conversations between shop owners, I am without a doubt that there is something a lot less inocent than the "thrill of the dark side" motivating some of thse who are part of these groups.

Robert Ivall, Chichester, UK

While thinking that for a reenactment it would be necessary to have people playing the part of Germans. I am worried by the fact that some of those you spoke to did not want to talk about it. This does give one a feeling that some of them may have had somewhat sinister reasons for wishing to play the part of SS troops. The event does have a positive side in that it is a good way to learn about WW2 or for those already with an interest to further it. I hope that the old solider you mentioned at the start of the article and others like him enjoyed the event.
I think that worse than those dressing up as Nazis was the presence of David Irving. Boasting of shaken hands with more people that had shaken hands with Hitler than anyone else is downright sick.

Angelina Marriott, Essex, UK

Here is a glowing example of the BBC phobia about the right wing, after watching the first half of the program, all I could see was fishing, for something, other than what it was ,a day out, for most British people, with no underlying Political views.
Ok there was a `nazi`wedding, but there are cranks in all society, I think the vast majority would have swerved this, anyway.
The big joke IMO was the introduction of a German Historian, who was shocked (which she would be, after all the British, along with the Allies won),but the double standards she quoted.
How people forget the Germans are still at it as recent as the Munich Olympics, where the Palestinians were allowed to leave, Germany, after the hijack at the Olympic village.

We all know who’s side the Germans were on there, and that it was not some extreme right wing faction, it was the elected government of the time, watch One day in September, and watch the retired police chief smirk, at the `we let them away` comment, I am sure the BBC German Historian would be equally shocked at this too……..

John Rockwell, Dundee, Angus

I have a friend who participates in re-enacting in the states. One of the challenges (especially after Band of Brothers came out) is that most everyone wants to be GI's. But it is hard to do a re-enactment with all good guys. So he plays as a german, yes, SS. He said that the particular group he portrays, in addition to dying to a man, was the only one commended for their treatment of other troops. He also indicates that they try to keep only those willing to be 'weekend nazis'. That is, willing to do the portrayal and enjoy it, but not, at their heart, following the ideology. They don't want skinheads and neo-Nazi's, but people willing to play their roles, and die when they're supposed to.
Yes, he enjoys it. Not because he's playing a nazi, but because the activity is enjoyable. Which is the same reason a lot of the men playing GI's do so. It's a camp out, a chance to show off innovation ("barbed wire" that looks good but isn't dangerous), enjoy time with friends, etc.

Cat Skyfire, Lincoln, NE - USA

awesome. really. look, it's history and reenactment. get over it. are you going to just pretend that the nazis didn't exist, except to scold them for being horrendous little boys? or can we have an open, honest display of history, even if it means a few boys dress up in grey or black uniforms and heil hitler around a field somewhere once in a while. it's called living history. deal with it.

bob, washington dc, usa

I don't really see the harm in this. Storm in a tea cup. If they let this on as a TV programme they can give me the budget and I could find something a lot more interesting.

greg, charleroi, belgium

Nobody turns a hair, when Viking re-enactors are at an event, yet the list of atrocities they were responsible for were massive.

Nobody criticises the confederate army re-enactors, when they take to the field, yet the 'rebels' supported slavery.

Medieval, Napoleonic etc...etc... the list is quite large.

It is wrong to deliberately target, those people who choose to re-enact as German troops, of whatever regiment.

As for 'Secret Hidden Camera Work' by John Sweeney's crew, that really is abhorrent!! ...I am sure that if you 'secretly' film people speaking in any pub in Britain today you will here comments that might offend Mr Sweeny, but they are made between friend in private and not for filming, editing and showing to the public.

Finally, let me make it clear, I am not a German Re-enactor, I do not know David Irving, nor share his views. My relatives like many other fought two wars, so that people could have the right to live their own lives with freedom of speech.

Barry Ward, Bridgend, Mid-Glamorgan

I just like to correct Mr. Crane, of Dallas, TX on two points he made in his comment:

First
The SS had only one Islamic/Muslim Division, not two.
Second
The largest Division in the German Army was an SS Division. Its numbers never exceeded 18,000 men, reinforced (The average Wehrmact/Army Division ran around 13-15,000, and the Luftwaffe Field Division ran around 15,000.

The largest American Division in WW II was a reinforced Armour Division that had near 20,000 men: think it was the 2nd Armoured that landed at Normany in 44'?

Check them out.

Warnstedt, Lake Villa, Illinois

I have just seen the program to go with this article and the views and opinons raised by those participating were deeply disturbing. Glen Swanllow in particular raised certain personal opinions that did indeed leave me feeling "a little bit shivery".
My grandfather died in the war, to have even a minority group of neo-nazi's going round calling themselves Combat 18 etc, freely walking round this country that the died protecting i find offensive and intrusive.
This is obviously not an event that promotes the freedom of speech, that many millions of people died to protect; but an event that promotes "The dark side" of the war.

James Booth, Manchester, Great Britain

They are wearing replica uniforms. They are not the people who actually committed the atrocities during WWII. The guys quoted in above are clearly unable to answer simple questions. I wonder if all of the participants had similar answers?
In the US, the majority of German re-enactors are capable of explaining their history. We even have Japanese re-enactors at some shows, oh no!
I can't wait to read the follow up article about the hidden truth behind the Revolutionary War Re-enactments. Why do you choose to wear that Red uniform when it symbolizes "oppression & tyranny"? They murdered "rebels" captured during the "Revolutionary War"! Hey you…The Hessians soldiers you represent were "assassins for hire" who pillaged their way thru the American countryside, "so if you are going to wear it, at least do it accurately" & torch a few houses.
I was surprised that re-enactors weren't blamed for "global warming" in this article as well.

Matt C, Indian Mills, USA

I think people are seduced by the images and aesthetics and showmanship of the Nazi era, something that they (the Nazi hierarchy) understood extremely well.

sonny, london,

The people are actors. "...you can't re-enact World War Two without Germans ..." as Mr. Williams has pointed out.
One might well ask the actors in Tom Cruise's current filming why they play German soldiers. My guess would be that they are playing a rôle and aren't neo-Nazis dressing up in a country where even the symbols of Nazism are outlawed. They are being paid to dress up.

In America, where I grew up, we would play Cowboys and Indians. Everyone wanted to play a Cowboy and the Indians were considered somehow villians (historically inaccurate, of course) but someone had to play them.

This is not the same as in America where neo-Nazi racists dress up and march around in demonstrations. They are self-selected idiots who idolize someone or something in the Third Reich.

Obviously, if a Jew (according to your article) can play an SS officer there is no particular danger in others doing so. It is ironic and the author failed to catch that point.

Morgan Russell, Vienna, AUSTRIA

Looks to me like Sweeney is trying to make something out of very little, maybe he should try using his secret camera in a pub, he'll hear far worse than that.. If he can keep his temper in check that is!. Can you remember when programmes like this tackled serious subjects of national importance.

John Goodman, London,

Although I enjoy going with my family to these sort of events, I have always been disturbed that British people would enjoy dressing up as the people who killed their own fathers and grandfathers and sought to take over our own country.

The American Civil War was many generations ago, and the Napoleonic Wars even further. But the Nazis were only a generation ago, a generation that is still alive.

There is something very odd and disturbing in these groups. And seeing a group of men marching in Nazi uniforms and manifestly enjoying it very much shows something more than an interest in history.

Peter, Maidstone,

It's about history and free speech. Our President Regan wore the Nazi uniform in 1942. (for a movie part). Reinactment is big business. The SS had two Islamic divisions (64000 men each) in WWII. If you want to wear the uniform and talk history do it. I would add do it accurately.

S. CRANE, DALLAS, TEXAS USA

You can always find a few cranks among 100,000 people at a show like this. Some of the views may be uncomfortable but probably no worse than you would find in many pubs in England on a friday night. Re-eanctors on the whole are doing a great service in keeping history alive and should be commended for doing so when so many young people are apathetic about thier country's history and history in general. On another note, you can't re-enact World War Two without Germans - however much you may want to - you would be missing the point......

Paul Williams, Egham, UK