I only hope those two PCSOs don't have children themselve's because if they do, how the hell would they be feeling now if it were their children that needed help? As far as i am concerned they should not be doing the job, as for the police officer that wen't in the water and the fishermen they should be comended. If i were a police officer on the same force as those two PCSOs i would serious'ly wonder if they would come to my assistance in an emergency? I very much doubt it.

Ian, Wrexham,

So which front line service would have the training to go into the water to rescue someone? I can only think of the coastguard, but they would only rescue from a boat.
Emergency services are just that & should be trained for such events.
Even though PCSO's are not classed as such they should have at least the basic training for life saving, from heart attacks, drowning, wounds & general first aid.
Another point, why was there no apparent life ring in the area, come on HSE & council you also have to answer for this tragic event.

Mick K, Bham,

As a young policeman in the 1950s I was trained to Life Saving Standards and used these skills to pull a young girl from the deep waters of a local dock.
My son, a fireman., was commended for jumping into a deep, fast flowing river to rescue a wouldbe suicide.
The Health and Safety Industry and the litigious lawyers did not then have their pernicious grip on our every day lives.

What a dreadful society we now live in.

Charles Nunn, Wirral, Cheshire

Just what sort of society have we arrived at, are we completely devoid of moral backbone that we need training to carry out a humanitarian obligation to a drowning child. Reading this story made me feel sick, we always seem to look for excuses to stand by and do nothing. Is this what "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS" has done for us !

Neil, Liverpool, England

Were the PCSO's the only adults at the scene? Did no one else try to rescue the boy, or is the culutre now "that's not my job" or "someone else's problem"

Rob Robinson, Crawley, GB

I don't care what the orders are or what the punishment would be I couldn't stand by and not try to save another human being in trouble, particulary a child.

Perhaps the police officers we recruit these days no longer have "the right stuff"?

Adrian Matthews, Horley, Surrey

My sincerest condolences to the family. Their young lad was a hero.

You don't have to swim to make some sort of token effort and I'm glad at least one policeman had the decency to have a go.

The HSE, DNAD, ID cards, police targets & bureaucracy have ruined this once great country.

Sprouty, Seaton, UK

Do they not teach people to swim at school anymore? I was taught to swim and basic lifesaving and resuscitation, I thought everyone was taught this. As an island nation with a lot of waterways it would seem a basic requirement that most of the population can at least swim. If there are police officers who can't I am amazed. It seems highly irresponsible to close the police training pool and not teach officers lifesaving over one accident that was not the pool's main use anyway. As for entering the water, suitably trained people should be allowed to use their own judgement, without fear of reprisals whether they decide to do so or not.

Andy, Leicester,

Have we lost sight of what we are? Human.

James Robson, Carcassonn, France

It is a sad fact as a senior officer in an emergency service we are continually trying to strike a balance between saving life and that is of our staff as well as the members of the public we serve and the risk of proscecution by the authorities or even our own emloyers if we do not follow the policy. The other aspect which is over looked - do any of you know how much training would be required to enter a cold lake in September and effect a rescue - so to say we should train everyone up is not realistic - the public expectations from our EM Sevices is sometimes too high they are after all only human them selves and suffer all the insecurities and concerns that everyone else does and hind sight is always the most powerful tool. My final word has to be to point out the MISS Reporting being done by the press if you look at the facts the CSO's did not stand by and watch the boy died sadly it looks as if he was already dead when they arrived as he had been under the water for so long.

Jim C, Shrewsbury,

I know many, many police officers in the Manchester force and do not know a single one of them that would not willingly have risked life and limb to try to save this young boy. For a senior GMP officer to claim that these two PCSO's acted correctly is just adding insult to injury.

Lets not forget the prime purpose of the police service which is PROTECT LIFE AND PROPERTY.

This country needs and deserves a fully trained and capaple police service, at present it has a cross between the boy scouts and dads army.

Mick Pearson, Manchester, UK

Any one who takes any life saving training learns the basics to reach , throw or wade to rescue people before taking the decision to swim.

But these PSCO's weren't even giving this training. I am shocked. What other training don't they get? first aid? Driving?
5 weeks is not enough training for any job.

What training do they get? How to ticket people for littering, how to read a tax disc.

tony seaton, Southampton, Hants

As a recently retired police officer, all I can say is 'you get what you pay for'...PCSO's are a disgrace to the service, the public is being fooled....the recruitment standards for PCSO's are disgraceful

Matt, Sheffield,

This "Health & Safety" gone utterly mad. Presumably the officer's Rule Book starts with Rule 1 - Everthing is forbidden unless specifically permitted.

I am disgusted by this whole shambles, it merely reinforces the correctness of my decision not to return to the UK.

Adrian Ryan, Donegal, Ireland

So, PCSO's are told to "withdraw" and 'phone for help are they? Most people now have mobile 'phones - anyone could do that. What, exactly, are the PCSO's supposed to do for the money we pay them? Some of us would like to know.

B Jones, Oxford, Oxfordshire

As has already been said it was not established whether the two pcso's could swim. This is just an attempt to slate pcso's once again, when the focus should be on why there was an eight & ten year old unsupervised in deep water? PCSO'S are a good idea if they given just a few more powers to make a difference this cheap shot devalues the tragic death of a young boy to gain points. Many of my colleagues have been assaulted in the course of their work doing things beyond their remit ,so unless these people putting these mindless comments forward know every pcso in the country i suggest they keep quiet or try not to generalise based on one incident.

David , portsmouth,

Calm down everybody! The PCSOs didn't "watch a child drown"--the child wasn't even in sight by the time they arrived. They're not trained lifeguards and they're certainly not equipped to dredge a lake for a corpse. Would a couple of traffic wardens have been expected to wade in? What about lollipop ladies? Librarians.
In the circumstances they did the right thing, which was not to take a pointless risk, and as a result have been effectively blamed for the child's death by the parents, not to mention the media and armchair heroes everywhere. But whose fault was it really that two children were playing unsupervised in a deep, water-filled lake?

Mick, London, UK

does this mean that a new series of Baywatch would be called "Watch"?

tim, london,

The public pay for & expect emergency services are there to help people. If people employed in these services cant accept their public responsibilities then they should get out. Police, PCSOs, Firefighters, Ambulance crews, Coastguard should let basic human concern for others override instructions not to enter the water. The appropriate course in these circumstances would be to act as human beings. The Firefighter who saved a woman in the River Tay & later informed he could face disciplinary action shows whats gone wrong. Its his superiors who made that decision who should be on a discipline. The comment by Asst Chief Const Thompson who said The 2 PCSOs acted correctly & he fully support the actions they took is despicable. Why am I not surprised, hes obviously one of the many senior officers who dont lead from the front but from behind a desk. The last thing he would dream of doing is get his hands dirty. Our society needs a period of deep reflection to get back to basics & priorities

Lynda Plum, London, england

would like to know where HSE stand where my son is concerned he has been to Afghan for 6 months would like to know if HSE make reguarly trips out there to make sure they are not risking there lives LOL. Very sorry to hear about young Jordan i am not a great swimmer but i would have tryed my best

mike claydon, bude,

None knows how they will react in these situations until it happens, hopefully never.

First rule of any first aid course I have ever attended is 'Look after yourself, be aware of danger'.

I FORBID my children to swim anywhere but a swimming pool, found my daughter once in a canal lock with friends and grounded her for a month. These places are dangerous, a disused pit especially so. The two fishermen who rescued the little girl should be applauded, but if they where unable to save the boy when already so close, what chance would the PCSOs have arriving 15mins later, we were not there and no amount of debate and accusation will bring him back.

Any one of us could have MAYBE done something different, something more. Or froze and been unable to act.

The two worse things to happen to this country are Human rights act and Health and Bl**dy safety.

BrianStHelens, StHelens, Merseyside

Despite what the uninformed politicians and ex politicians are saying it is the case that the police in the Uk is not a rescue service. There is far too much emotive talk on this issue. From my interpretation of the facts the child was under the water by the time the PCSO's arrived so it is not the case that they were standing there watching a child drown! There have been far too many lives lost in the past by would be heroes jumping into water without any thought for their own safety, their ability or the risks involved. The PCSO's acted with a great deal of professionalism by coordinating the rescue operation and not placing themselves into a situation whereby they themselves would become casualties and require to be rescued. It is particularly sad to them now being hounded for political gain - water rescue is particularly hazardous and should be lect to the professionals.

Douglas Macfarlane, Argy,

This is 'political correctness' gone mad. Lets forget about training & rules etc. Where does human nature kick in? These 2 PCSO's should be ashamed of themselves. One would think that to do the job properly, an ability to swim would be a basic requirement. Obviously they are totally unprepared for whatever situations the job may entail. Should we depend on these people in our hour of greatest need...I dont think so! I just hope that if I ever find myself in a difficult situation, a public spirited citizen is close at hand.

Stewart, Aberdeen, Scotland

So - the PCSOs who did not leap into the water to save a child - as anyone would - were not lacking in courage. They were just obeying orders.

roj, London,

Hmmm. Standing on the shore and watching a child drown is actually just another example of an increasingly secular U.K. In Christ's telling of the parable to the lawyer, the Good Samaritan came to the aid of the traveler who was robbed, beaten and left to die. No question of "proper training". Neither was it the Good Samaritan's responsibility to pay an inn keeper two silver dinarii *out of his own purse* to feed and watch over injured man.

So powerful was this parable, that ever since our culture has labeled as a "Good Samaritan" those, who without thinking of what is best for themselves, is prepared to do whatever necessary to render aid to those in need or at risk. Canada and most states in America have gone further to protect from liability those who in good faith render aid.

Increasingly, we now see in the U.K. an obnoxious and officious bureaucracy, and a litigious society relegating to the dustbin the very thought of goodness and caring or loving thy neighbor.

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

they can put everybody else.s lives at risk by chasing them in their cars ? and they still cant catch them ,how can people have respect for a police force who only want to catch you doing 31 mph in a 30mph zone and let you bleed to death on the side of the road because of health and safety ,how could they just stand there and let the boy drown ,i wonder if health and safety would come in to it if it was their SON.

vince stephens, swansea, wales

What is next? Nurses banned from using syringes, surgeons banned from using scalpels and other sharp instruments? These tools could all be hazards to the health and safety of these people. Perhaps soldiers should not be sent to foreign countries - it's dangerous out there - people are firing bullets. Cooking should be banned too - all those hot objects and flames!

David, Nottingham, UK

We feel sorry for the parents of the boy .However one has to ask - are THEY trained ? Trained in being parents.Why were they not supervising their children and on hand to help themselves ! Please , are we living in a culture where we expect others to make good our mistakes.
The poor PCSO's .They must feel terrible with this negative public support .What if they had families and they drowned in attempting to save this boy .How would their children now be feeling .
My brother and cousin once rescued a drowning mother , her father in law and her two children on Lake Windermere. when their boat sank with no( life jackets.)Both rescuers were water sport fanatics , were very fit and young and recently trained lifesavers .They both found it VERY physically exhausting dragging these people to safety .
Why should we expect Police officers to save lives under these circumstances .Lets get rid of this 'some one else should help us 'culture. My thoughts are also for them.They were correct .

PENNY , ashington, uk

Britains Health & Safety regulations make the country a laughing stock all around the world.

Peter Fordham, Pego, Spain

All the blame here seems to be thrown at the PCSOs, the government, the Health & Safety first culture, Greater Manchester Police. Hardly a whisper about why four young children--Jordan, age 10, was the eldest--were playing in such a dangerous location unsupervised by their parents who seem to be lashing out at everyone except themselves.

Bob, St Albans, UK

It beggars belief that the 'Emergency Services' are prevented by their own regulations from responding to an emergency. The next thing we'll hear will be our troops on active service won't be issued firearms because guns are dangerous.

Finn, Dublin,

The answer bring back fully trained Officers. Surely that is what we pay taxes for. It seems incredible that a child should have been left so long before any action was taken.

A sad day for us all. Give the services we pay for and bring back the good old Bobby on the street. We have good Officers and their reputation is being tarnished.

izzy, wirral, england

My sincerest condolences to the parents and family of this remarkable boy, Jordon Lyon. The world has lost much in his passing.
My own late Father received a number of awards for saving lives. He was a policeman.He was also a life-saving instructor
(swimming) for the police. In the 'old days' a policeman simply laid his life on the line! In those days the police also had considerable respect within the community and enjoyed the general support of society.
This is a most difficult case on which to form a judgement although human nature/motivation to try and effect a rescue
seems the most obvious thing to do.Though, would it have helped if another had died in the attempt?
We do not know the swimming capabilities, physical
potentialities or emotional state of mind of the PCSOs. Nor are we aware of their assesment of the situation upon their arrival.It is unjust to condemn without those facts.

Keith Robotham, Dalsland, Sweden

Almost speechless! Do they excise the aitruism/humanity genes from emergency workers? Politicians complain that people are "disengaged"-wonder why? We just can't believe what is happening to Britain.

Feel sorry for support officers, they have to live with this, but why did they sign the contract ?

Sorry for incoherence, most official decisions no longer deserve considered response, are we ruled by inhuman aliens?

Leni, glyncorrwg, wales

In 1982 my life was saved from drowning by a bunch of off-duty RAF personnel.

The crate of whisky I took into their mess that evening wasn't nearly enough to express my sincere thanks.

I suppose these days, they'd all be on a charge for doing the same thing. :(

Ed Shields, phoenix, arizona