Time for the brass hats to learn to say no? Where in the name of hell did you come up with that? I'm not sure how things work in Australia, but in the British army they have a thing called discipline...you can't blame the Generals for our socialist leadership being willing to sacrifice mens lives by fighting 2 wars on a peacetime budget...god help us if we ever face a great power war with the current leadership, it'd make Dunkirk look like El Alamein...

Brad Cohen, Staines, UK

They are people not robots or operational units.
Uncaring.

I Samwell, Northampton, Northants

Surely it is past time National Service was brought back ,it would help to reduce illegal immigration and return South London streets to NORMAL peacefull abodes,and sort out delinquency especially if the age was reduced to 16.

derek bevan, you dont care, where ever

agreed, in the USA if an immigrant wants US Nationality they have to serve 7 years in the armed forces, then they're allowed status. In the UK i gather, all you have to do is enter and you get a passport, hardly an incentive.
Besides this might help your 'ethnic minority recruitment targets'.

G. Hewitt, London,

Of course we can't afford to train and equip our forces adequately. Taxpayers' money goes on more important things, such as subsidising MPs' booze in the House of Commons and paying the fecund idle to reproduce. The list could go on. By "important" I mean of course important to the current government.

gerry dunlop, exeter, england

This war is pointless. What kind of parent allows their flesh and blood to die for nothing?
Those troops should be repatriating Britains aliens' here at home and gaurding the channel tunnel. If we didn't have these foreigners invading here under the guise of immigration we wouldn't even be involved or attacked.

Keith Bentham, Wigan, Lancashire

As an Armed Forces Veteran (1977 - 1992). I have seen it first hand. These problems have alway's been there. Bad kit. Poor pay, inadiquate living conditions for the married and single.
It will never change untill these idiots in government pull out the finger and take note of what the lads on the ground are saying ! But to send half trained troops straight into a hostile environment is a disaster waiting to happen. Who in the right mind would want some one like that watching your back ? Because when the bullets start flying it's you & your mates that have to deal with it the best you can, through training and experiance!
O, sorry what training?
But what ever happens. I would like to wish All the Armed Forces, the very best of luck and well done for the job you have done so far.

Eddie Watson, Plymouth, U.K

What are we doing over there anyway? It's sickening to hear of 18 and 19-year olds coming home in body bags and this latest cut can only make a bad situation worse. Funny how PC we are here, a nanny state, yet we shove our young people out to a hostile territory ill-equipped and ill-trained to fight. And for what? I for one will not be encouraging my 18 year old to join up.

LCG(a mother), Norwich, Norfolk

Lynda Goffiin, Norwich,

You must have some empathy for those that hate the West. Heck the only shot they have at the Nobel Peace Prize is to be a terrorist. Hopefully a newsworth one. It worked for Arafat.

David Monnastes, Spokane, USA/ Washington

Didn't we go into Afganistan to fight terrorist group Al-Quada? not the Taleban army?

Strange becuase this could have been avoided when the Taleban said to the US. Yes we have Bin Laden and if you provide us with evidance that he was part of 9/11 attacks, we'll give him to you.

Unfortuantly the reason Bin Laden isn't on the FBI's most wanted list for 9/11, is becuase they them selves say that "there is no evidance linking Bin Laden with 9/11". So he's just listed for the terror bombings of embasy buildings etc.

Do your reseach guys, do your self a favor!

As a side not, the UN report says there is more Smack/Drugs comming out of Afganisation NOW than BEFORE we invaded. What does that tell you?

Andy, england,

Jobsworth Ainsworth rides the army again

Ron Yeo, Lochgelly, Scotland

Self-defence force? Come on guys - this is not 1939/40 facing a convential invasion. Even in the cold war, the USSR would not have bothered invading. The UK was just considered an air-craft carrier for the US and would have been nuked. Threats to the UK are already here and are world wide. The self-defence force are our counter terrorism forces, secret services, the police and the armed forces doing what they are already doing. Put the money were it is most needed and will be most effective - we are taxed highly enough, so were does it all go?

John, London, UK

"Steve T, Norwich, UK - This is a war we must win otherwise all our sons will be dealing with the result on their doorsteps. "

Why must be win this ?

We're fighting people because they hate us (the West) and would like to attack us. But, they hate us because we invade their countries and generally treat them like dirt.

All we're doing is giving future generations of Muslims reasons to fight us. It's time to look for a political solution.

For all those gung-ho types out that - bit of history - look at Northern Ireland - we tried for 25 years (more ?) to "beat" the IRA. Was never going to happen. In the end we had to sit down and talk to them. Result - problem solved.

Same with Muslims - we're never going to "win" miitarily, so let's give it up now before we get hundreds more of ours killed/injured and before we destroy the whole of Afhanistan and leave simmering hatred behind us in the Muslim world.

Clive, Surrey,

I believe that newspaper articles are written with a particular spin. This one presents a half-trained army being sent to war.

The reality is that all these soldiers have received basic training in weapons, tactics, fieldcraft and the like. Many of them will be returning for a second or third tour of duty in Afghanistan; we don't put together battalions of raw recruits.

Having received further training for a particular theatre of operations the replacement battalions need not go immediately into "front line ops", - their training and acclimatisation can continue in theatre.

Only when they are ready need they be committed to operations. If 20% of the troops are new - 80% are old hands.

However - the government MUST ensure that if these troops are to continue with Bush/Blair's war they have nothing less than the best equipment available.

R Bingham, Lauzun, France

This is bordering on criminal negligence. Would you want to be operated on by a half trained surgeon? Fly on a plane with a half trained pilot? Unfortunately this measure if put through is going to cost troops their lives.

Either increase spending to do the job properly or reduce the commitments.

Broon despises the armed forces and has severely cut their funding over the last 10 years. The election can't come fast enough to get rid of this lot.

Russ, Reading, UK

Poor pay, cuts in training, no confidence in the Government, lack of supplies, having to fight with one arm tied behind their backs- no wonder the army cannot get enough recruits. I cannot understand why anyone would want to join up,

John ex pat, Bangkok, Thailand

I bet the MOD and the Government are pleased with themselves for disbanding a couple Battalions of Infantry in yet another cost cutting exercise a couple of years ago.

Forward planning eh?

Labour constantly insist they have increased defence spending, but this disingenuous political doublespeak the Govt excels at fails to take into account the Military is fighting two wars with what is essentially a peacetime budget.

They've run all three services of the military into the ground. God forbid we ever have to call on them to actually defend the UK as thanks to Labours disastrous tenure, we'll be in serious trouble.

DanVN, Leigh on Sea, Essex

Let's do the maths. 600 or so MPs in Parliament = about a battalion of infantry. Let's send them out -I'm sure they could fit in 14 weeks training given their working hours.....Conditions might improve if they actually experienced being shot at in 50 degree heat for days at a time.

That might get their attention.

Paul H, Cambridge , United KIngdom

I pity the son of Phil, The Wirral. The way to ensure his son doesn't reach his potential is by having a father making his career decisions for him.

I hope his son joins the Army, I'm sure it will be the making of him.

Each conflict has it's problems and they have to be addressed. The reasons for being in Afganistan haven't changed. This is a war we must win otherwise all our sons will be dealing with the result on their doorsteps.

Steve T, Norwich, Uk

While our brave lads are placing their lives at risk many times a day, the private getting £12000 plus per year. The police are threatening to go onstrike, just because a constable gets £24000 per year. What are we coming to?.. Give the Forces lads not just free telephone calls home from the front line, but a substantial wage increase, forget the percentage of cost of living, give them the money. I am proud of them.

Brian, Norwih, Norfolk

This is absolutely pathetic. As paltry a number the UK contributes they still have to send over half trained men? And the UK is a shining star in NATO. This rush is a direct result of the other members of NATO not contributing to the effort. There really is no NATO any more. Europe apparently doesn't wish to have a military and is content to let others, mostly America of course, bear all burdons.

For some perspective look back to World War II and the numbers involved with a much smaller UK and European population. What has happened to the West? How have we reached this state?

Sam, New York, USA

Yes, Jack from London. Halve the number of universities. That's exactly what this country needs, LESS education.

Graham, Windsor,

Just when you thought that this government couldn't come up with another 'jolly wheeze' there they go and surprise us

It beggars belief that thay are even considering this given the ferocity of the fighting in Afganistan.

If we had our backs to the wall like in 1940 I could see the logic, but we are not in this position today so why even consider it ?

Tony , Cardiff,

I've just withdrawn my permission for my son to join the Army.
They're not using him as cannon fodder.
The MOD and polichickens can send their own kids if they're that desperate

Phill , The Wirral, England

What's next, conscription?

Is this more cost cutting - not enough troops, equipment and now training.

The manpower crisis within the forces is with experienced troops, not recruits, so how is this supposed to help?

Andy, Shrewsbury, UK

This is unbelievable. It is bad enough that we are out there fighting in the first place, but sending out half trained troops is tantamount to sending these young people to their deaths. Come on, lets have some serious political,military, moral and legal minds applied to this situation in the interests of humanity.

Rodney Barker, Gainsborough, England UK

Cut welfare which will reduce immigration costs on social services, reduce civil service to 1997 levels (lose a million of them), halve the number of MPs, remove devolved layers of government, privatise health provision, halve the number of universities, AND SPEND THE MONEY ON DEFENCE BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

Jack, London,

If we're going to send half trained troops, I wonder if its a good idea to tell the enemy first.

Geoff, Sydney,

It's criminally irresponsible for this government to send troops to places like Iraq & Afghanastan when defence spending has been cut and cut for years. The UK military makes a fine self defence force, but it doesn't have anywhere near the resources to go off and fight major wars like Blair & Brown want to do. The Royal Navy is less than 30 000 people for God's sake! How does Gordo think they're supposed to get there, and keep the troops supplied? Defence spending would have to be close to 3% of GDP to do the sorts of things Blair & Brown have asked for, and if they're not prepared to spend that kind of money then don't send the troops.

Dan, London,

And this government will probably see fit to pay them only half their salary. TB's happy, though: he's struck gold off the back of dead British troops.

David Masu, Zürich,

someone is going to have to tell Gordon that Mr Blair used all the toys up when in power, someone needs to say sorry no Gordon we cannot do this anymore and unless you pay for it properly it will break, 10yrs of Gordon Brown at number 11 are the result of this problem today for the armed forces, the MOD has been made to do more with less for too long the results are now clear we are placing our troops in danger and short term fixes will lead to a serious problem even deaths which will ruin our forces reputation just to suit new labour budgets

Richard de Gerber, Kingston upon Thames, UK

Half trained troops to fight 'people fighting fully trained troops for the past 4 years non-stop' - err... How about sending some half trained MPs, you know, the ones who employ their kids, misappropriate funds for property etc. That I think would be a wonderful way to say thank you for their quality of service.

Farrukh, Woking, UK

why not ask all illegal immigrants to join the army for a return to stay in the country surely this will prove popular

Phil, Milton KEYNES, eNGLAND

Why not spend all the excess training money propping up a failing bank...oh, done that already

Blood on YOUR hands if they die through inadequate training Mr Brown

David, St Albans, UK

I'd hardly describe giving someone 20 mins free calls a week home as generous. I always felt it was the least they could do.

Ian Robertson, Helsinki, Finland

Maybe it should be compulsory for the eligible children of elected Members of Parliament to serve in the forces while they are in elected office? I imagine we would see less involvement in controversial conflicts and a much better equipped, better prepared and thus more motivated army, navy and air force.

It is time the over paid and over expensed MPs were made to have real connections with those they have the right to govern and make life or death decisions over.

chris, Dubai,

Time for the brass hats to stop worrying about their gongs and learn to say "NO". Gordon Brown will have blood on his hands.

Mike, Sydney, Australia

Why are we in Afghanistan ? To resist the Taliban who wish to impose a regime more akin with the stone age. However, while this is bad enough, maybe it isn't the biggest problem.

Maybe the problem is that if they rule Afghanistan again, extremist expertise will, again, have a solid home base.

Either way, we'll end up fighting. Here or there is the choice. Pay up Gordon and take care of the troops and quit wasting my money on your pet nanny state worthless projects.

MGD, Stratford Upon Avon, GB

To mikegee of bournemouth. "let others who can afford the high cost of fighting do it". Isn't that kind of like saying I'll have a pint at the pub as long as my friends buy?

Murph, Madisonville, USA/KY

why not? it worked at waterloo.

jason , Lake Jackson, Texas

Having read what the Paras and others faced in Afghanistan it is not a good idea to send unprepared troops. What was aprticulalry concerning where coments from above that they were expending too much ammunition and the lack of equipment to the point they were borrowing from Danish troops for basics. If you send them make sure they are trained and equiped for the job. Good luck as they are doing a great job under severe stress (not just from the Taliban but from Karzi's incompetent regime.

Reece, Melb, Aust

marvellous what you can do when it's not your life thats on the line. reduce training. reduce monies that support the forces etc,etc. to send troops into a war zone not fully trained and with the best equipment is nothing short of murder. soldiers will get killed, thats what happens when your involved in a war. but to compound the problem by deploying undertrained and badly equiped personnel is inexcusable.

stephen baron, leith, tasmania

This is the beginning of a downward spiral for recruitment of soldiers. Who in the right mind would join the army with the prospect of being sent overseas half trained, and in the shortest time?

Dave, Hong Kong,

"Troops in A-stan need more training in counter insurgency?"

Wait a minute, didn't this same crowd want to draw and quarter our Sec. of Defense for saying the SAME THING a few days ago. We admire your fine, dedicated soldiers, but you can't have it both ways.

Marco, Miami, FL USA

mikegee

we are one of the richest countires in the world we can well afford to fight in Afghanistan, with properly equipped troops

wether we want to though is another matter

Graeme, Nottingham,

We massively underspend on defence for the role our lords and masters have decided we should fulfil, so we should eitehr up our spending massively or we shoudl reduce our commitments.
.

neil murphy, cromer,

I have been on operations in Afghanistan in the past year and have had first hand experience of the realities war. I have also 18 years of experience of combat environments and I must say even with my background the environment is harsh, tough and unforgiving at best.

I do think that many young sodiers with this limited training will struggle, maybe even become a hinderance to the Junior or senior ranks on the ground.

Ultimately the one thing anyone in a position of responsibility wants in their men is for them to a liability either to themselves or to their comrades.

I do however understand the MOD's need to fill the ranks with personnel as without the right numbers of troops on the ground this in its self becomes a liability
for commanders and their operational effectiveness. So it reallly is a case of damned if you do and damned if you dont.

JCM, UK, UK

Half-trained new recruits to Afghan nightmare lands?. Would we be wrong to equate this with kindergarten kiddies going into a gang-warfare zone?.

Gloria B. Devine, Taunton, UK

It is time this country accepted its real place in the world and stopped pretending we are still a world policeman. Let those who can afford the high cost of fighting other peoples wars do just that. It is time we had just a comprehensive home defence
force and forgot the past. The saving in defence budget alone would be huge and maybe we could then concentrate on infrastructure which we so badly need.

mikegee, bournemouth, uk