Why say we hide behind quran to condone any crime? Have anyone of these reprehensible minded people ever, ever, ever studied the quran or Islamic shariah and its fine divisions between crime and punishment in Islam? A girl or woman CANNOT be forced into marriage that is detrimental to her, where the other party has prior motives of revenge, salacious intentions, the man is not physically and mentally competent..ooh Allah my Lord, thou knowest best that Islam brings peace and harmony to the world and whatever distortions by so-called Muslims or unbelievers, truth will out, be it here or the thereafter.

noorlida, Kuala Lumpur,

This has nothing to do with Islam nor any religious faith. It has to do with the finger pointed specifically at the Islamic faith because of those that hide behind the Koran in order to have things done their way. This was practiced also with the Hindu religion and centuries ago within the Christian faith. It is not part of any true faith to harm others nor to exterminate family members. These men have true issues interpreting the meaning of "honor" because of those they learned from. This is a man made belief and NOWHERE in the Koran is it condoned to murder in the name of "honor"

Lori-Anne, Bronx, NY, USA

Many Muslims appear ot be be getting really defensive about this matter, claiming that it is not about Islam and instead this is a crime far removed from any religious influence. These people are completley missing the point. The point is not whether the condoning of female opression is in the Koran or not (not theolgoical), it is the perception that real and actual Muslims (so it's more sociological) think they can commit crime because they believed it was part of their religion. Nobody cares whether it was in the Koran or not, they care that other Muslims think it is in the Koran. So what if it is not in the Koran? The fact is that the Islamic community cannot get their act together by arriving at a general consensus about right and wrong.

Sara, Vancouver,

this is nothing to do with islam!!! its to do with local culture and bringing family to a certain country for money purpose!! it so unfair to use the word 'muslim' in this context. You dont see titles like ' Christian man rapes 18 old model' on any newspaper!
its so sad that the media causing an anti-muslim feeling! Media in muslim worlds dont create such anti-christian feeling so i ask the media that they have a moral role in covering and reporting stories, and they do this with respect.
many thanks
ahmed, london

kamil ahmed, london,

im just ashamed on the muslim people who want to make a bad name for the islamic religion

fatima, sydeny, australia

In Islam, both the pride and the groom have to give their consent before the wedding is carried out. Also, it is stressed that they should love each other. Evidence of this can be found in the Coran (the Confederates).
It is therefore a shame that some people associate horrible traditions with Islam.

Amanda, Cardiff,

Trying to distinguish between culture and religion is almost impossible for most communities, and to try and do so is a peculiarly Protestant Christian notion. Islam, like Christianity and Judaism, is as multifaceted as the number of cultures and communities that profess the supposed same faith. The British people of whatever ethinicity should not accept any such (cultural) behaviour for whatever excuse is offered. No religion is offended by protecting innocent lives, just the stupidity of barbarians and the pride of the worthless.

Benjamin, Gloucester,

Come on Britain, grow a backbone. And an identitly of our own.

I am so surprised that such breaches of our own law are treated so delicately in order to make foriegn settlers more comfortable.
I am a very tolerant person and feel that all cultures should be celebrated here, but law is law, whether first or third generations. Religion or other cultures should have no say behind our own borders.

Sharyn, Wantage, Oxfordshire

Please start sending these people back to their lovely country.

Steve, columbus, OH

That was truly awful and nothing acceptable in a true Islamic home and environment.

There is always an odd few who ruin it for a whole religion, what a shame.

PK, UK,

They manipulate this to make the shariah ceremony worthy of blame, and to add insult to injury - they fail to mention that the marriage was INVALID according to Shariah Law!!

FACT: If the man is unable to provide for the girl and/or fulfil her rights - then she is well within her Islamic rights to leave him!

FACT: The Islamic Sharia Council looks @ the technicality of the contract only, i.e. that the two individuals have submitted their verbal consent and that there are relevant witnesses. They are not a supervisory body that checks both sides for any ill-intent, hidden agendas, etc. Their "approval" is on paper only, as they simply dont have the means to investigate any more than what is made apparent to them! Such forced marriages could've taken place in normal secular registry offices too!!!

FACT: If the girl is being forced - then the ceremony is NOT recognised by Shariah at all, and in fact the marriage is NULL!

FACT: Such "honour" killings are condemned by Shariah!

AK, Luton, England

This is perfectly consistent with Muhammad's Lifestyle and Precepts

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."
Qur'an 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them."
Qur'an 24:1 "(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

MIC, Lubbock, USA

I guess women are still considered less than animals in that religion. I hope that religion is wiped from the face of the earth very soon.

Lynn , Cincinnatti, OH

I'm an African Muslim living in the US. When I read the comments that are blaming Islam and Muslims for the behavior of one criminal family, I realize that most people in Britain are either in denial, or simply ignorant or bigoted.

This kind of violence against the poor girl is CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION!!

It is like saying that Christianity is to be blame for that woman in the US a few years back who drown her children because she thought they were possessed by the devil.



The article is written for sensationalism

Fatima, NYC, USA

I feel for the young women, in some cases just girls who are being so terribly abused. Islam doesn't teach this. An essential part of classical Islamic teaching, is that when you are living in another country, you obey and respect their laws. Hence, it is not only illegal but not following Islam to marry underage girls in the UK.

According to Sharia, it is forbidden to lie, trick, rape, force a marriage agreement against someones will. So even according to Sharia these people don't have a leg to stand on. We need to end this appalling situation, and make sure once stopped it never happens again.

People who know about this, but are turning a 'blind eye' to it, are complicit in these crimes. One day they have to answer for their crimes. All Muslims, as with Jews and Christians, believe everyone will have to stand before God on the Day of Judgement to answer for their sins... Have these individuals no fear of God?

http://wulfrunasufi.wordpress.com/

Paul Salahuddin Armstrong, Wolverhampton, Great Britain

For all those who want to read an EYE-OPENING book on the proliferation of radical Islam in GB and the weakness of the liberal British government and the press.....check out...................Londonistan by Melanie Phillips. I wasn't sure of the validity of her writing until I read this news story.

Gary Hunt, tewksbury, ma

All right guys lets not stereotype all of us muslims yeah? I just want to make it clear, that a marriage is only permissable if 1) its done with the consent of BOTH the man and the woman. 2) the man and the woman are mentally stable. now obviously in this case the man wasnt, and the girl wasnt prepared to marry him either. Although i am a muslim i have no doubt in saying that the islamic council was either bribed to stand up for the corrupted family or it did not have a clue what it was on about.

I have actually fired an email to the islamic council and attached a copy of this report to ask them what they think they are upto. as soon as i get a reply i will post it here.

rayza, glasgow, scotland

Well… if someone goes from Pakistan to Britain to live there permanently, this someone must obey the civil regulations of Britain.

This fear of repress the abuses of sharia in name of non-racism or not “offending cultural sensitivities” is just a blatant demonstration of what can happen when white colonial guilt, political correctness and multiculturalism get out of control of rationality.

Democracy presumes individual liberty and respect for the law. And there is no such a thing like “third generation immigrants”; these people are British people of Pakistani descent, and deserve to be protected by Britain as the same way that white protestant Britons.

Worse than “offending Islam” is to offend ourselves and the rights and liberties assured by the Western World.

That’s it.

M., São Paulo/SP, Brazil

I am curious to know the Sharia law in this case. SS mentioned the fact it was a fraudulent marriage contract. Perhaps someone can enlighten us how the case would be dealt with in an Islamic court. Is UK law more lenient to all the parties involved? It is a pity that all Muslims should be "tarred" with the same brush - as a former member of a university islamic society, I always was impressed by the beauty and mercifulness of Islam.

stephen pain, odense, denmark

I think all the views are very unjust and rude. None of this kind of thing is permissible in Islam. I have reaserched extensively and marrige can only happen in Islam if the man and woman are happy to go ahead. There can be legitimate forced marrige.
About them being backward, i like you to reasearch some history on the UK. I will not divulge any deeper as I have made my point.
STOP BEING SO IGNORANT AND FIND THINGS OUT FOR YOURSELVES>YOU ARE OLD ENOUGH.

BOB, London,

Forced marriage is inhuman treatment. Make Mullahs and the Muslim Council, and any other religious leader, legally responsible for acts of inhuman treatment carried out in the name of their religion by those they preach to.
This should also applies to religious leaders and politicians who preach that war and jihad is justified.
Similarly make police legally responsible for their incompetence or inaction. A fixed penalty of 12 months imprisonment should apply.

Nick, Ashford, UK

Sadly this type of thing goes on around the world. It is not just confined to the Muslim community although elderly men marrying far younger women are far more common amongst Muslims than any where else. They use historical cases in the Koran to justify their actions and yet Muslim leaders say it has nothing to do with their religion. This is where the problem lies. It is the same with so-called honour killings. People who carry out these acts justify on religious grounds and yet the leaders refuse to condemn.

John, Leicester,

Lets face it - this Country is screwed!

We've allowed far too many backward, uncivilised, barbaric and intelerant cultures influence the British way of life over the past 4 decades or so.

Britain is literally tearing its self apart and its all come about because successive British governments have allowed people from every culture on the planet to come here knowing that the British will make allowance for their sensibilities, rather than them having to assimilate to the British way of life.

In less than 20 years time large parts of this Country are going to look like war zones. Or, and I don't really know which is worse, will be effectively foreign Countries.

AJL, Newcastle, UK

I think that difference between ethnicity and religion must be understood before one begin to criticize everything on asian ethnicity.Asians consists of different religions and nationality.Mostly people of one particular religion are the trouble makers.When you scan world affairs and world history with an unbiased attitude you will understand that religions bring more harm to the world and one particular religion sees every thing in opposite way.What others sees as right ,they will see as wrong,when they themselves are the culmination of violence,they imagine others as trouble makers.Only if rationality ,sense and scientific thinking gets inculcated in them will the world see a better future.Otherwise the world is doomed.

bobby, kerala,

It;a a very perverted system that condones the murder and killing of girls and women - for refusing a forced marriage or simply for not kow-towing to a dress code devised by men etc. If men were killed for walking merely down the road with a woman or for not wearing a cover-all headdress they might change their viewpoint. The strictest or purest brands of religion are always the most cruel.

Phil, Hong Kong,

Danny from Cambridge: Love the beginning of your sentence mate, "I will start saying that I am not racist."

Well, I will start by saying that the Pope is not Catholic.....

Sarcasm aside, these are the characteristics of some backward Barbaric cultures which are not always or even necessarily 'Muslim'. And, yes, nobody should put up with it.

Blaming ALL Muslims for the practice of a few is like calling ALL Catholics pedophiles just because some Catholic priests were caught in that heinous practice.

Krishan, Sydney, Australia

This is not a Muslim country.
If people come here from other countries they should be prepared to integrate into the UK's secular society, whatever their faiths, or go elsewhere.
That has to be made clear at every stage.
Any signs of Sharia law setting up shop in the UK have to be stopped before they start. There is ONE law for everyone in the UK or there is no law at all.

Thalia, London,

It's interesting that the marriage was considered 'valid' - just as rape and murder are allowed in Islam as well.

Rich, Detroit,

Let's be clear that the rights and wrongs taught by Abrahamic monotheistic religions of Islam, Christianity and Judaism are more or less the same. The "Christian" commentators who keep bashing Islam are atheists more than anything else. If the preferred way of life in Europe is unlimited sex, alcohol and drugs and hatred of all outsiders is a common thread that is fine. However using the name of Jesus Christ and Christianity to protect this way of life is absurd. Hate filled comments towards Muslims is not Christian at all.
Stop trying to turn believers of Christianity, Islam and Judaism on to each other.

OMER , LONDON,

A few simple questions. Why do so many muslims on this forum feel the need to defend their religion? Crimes such as the one highlighted in this article are not endemic of a religion. It is patently absurd to suggest anything else. Tolerance is always needed. This does not mean tolerance of crime or injustice, but a basic respect for people. Let's not forget that the girl in question is also muslim. Don't the 'islamophobes' see that the victims of all these stories are also muslims? Yet you have people calling all muslims evil. Does that include the victims? A reality check is in order I think, not jumping on the bandwagon of hatred and scapegoating. p.s. Does it matter if this post is from a muslim or not?

ransa, New York, USA

Islam is not a culture, it is a religion. What is practised by people who carry out such acts has nothing to do with Islam & everything to do with culture, namely South-Asian culture. Yes I am a Muslim & yes I am of an asian background but I do not for one second condone any of the above actions. And neither does Islam. In Islam, a marriage is contracted into by two able parties who give their full & free consent and without which there is no 'marriage'. So although an Islamic marriage ceremony took place, in reality the ceremony was invalid as it did not involve the true consent of both parties. In fact for the girl of 15, due to the fraud committed by the girls parents and the man's mental disability, the marriage was invalid from both sides. So, when you speak of Islamic ceremonies in forced marriages, please note that it has absolutely nothing to do with the religion and absolutely everything to do with the backward thinking of a group of people who wish to ruin it for us all.

SS, London,

If these people don't want to be "westernized", they should stay out of western countries. They want to enjoy all the benefits of living in a western country, but in their own heads, they are living in the third or fourth world. Very sad indeed.

Rick Friedl, Edwards, USA/ California

I am still listening for the voice of moderate Islam to condemn this depravity. I am waiting.

Steve, Cambridge,

In my work as a translator for South Asian immigrants, most Muslims I've met have wanted to assimilate, but there is no one to help them with that process. The only people they can turn to are their religious community, the leaders of which are often barely literate, but make up for their lack of knowledge by being manipulative and cruel. But look at Muslims in the US: they are almost invariably Westernised and well-educated, and there is virtually no domestic terrorism, no "honour killings," and really, no Islamic extremists at all. This is because Americans make efforts to help them learn English, find jobs, etc., but still allow them to practice their faith, speak their native languages, and keep their traditions.

Lalita, London,

This has nothing to do with religion or culture. These things are illegal in this and many other countries. It is about time we ended this political correctness nonsense. I live in a very ethnically diverse city where relations between the various groups are very good. I applaud our tolerance in allowing freedom of religion and expression. However, if things like this aren't stopped soon this will very freedom be jepordised by a terrible backlash from ordinary Brits who see our society being undermined by a perverted sense of fair-play.

carol, Leicester , UK

This act just reflects a proof of the unconciousness of the "Islamic System" and the wrongful ideology presented in this type of belief. Islam is not a religion, it is a system that goes totally against the Western culture and tradition. If you read the Koran, you would notice that it's a belief that includes a lot of hate, killing, punishments, and the word love is barely mentioned.
Now is this truly a religion of peace and love?
is it really what God (Allah) wants for us in the world?

Jorge Cabrera, Mendoza, Argentina

As far as I am aware, Khalid, the sex trade across Europe and America is not, and has not, been perpetrated in the name of God, Jahweh, Jehovah, Jesus, or any variant thereof.
Enforced coupling, be it sexual based or marital based, is a criminal offence commonly called rape. It is perpetrated by criminals who do so for monetary or pervers gain.
The "honour" killings, the enforced marriages, and subsequent abuses, that hail from the Eastern and middle Eastern continents are often done in the name of Allah, and come heavily laden with religious guilt and oppression.
Instead of trying to swriggle out of this debate by pointing fingers Westwards to show up our failings, you would be better served to look inwards and at your fellow "bretheren".

Religion is a cancer that has plagued this planet and humanity for thousands of years. There seems to be just enough to make us want to kkill each other, but not enough to teach us to tolerate and love our neighbours.

Ahmed, Burnley,

Muslims still have a long road to travel - and while I see that many posters here claim that honour killings have nothing to do with Islam, it is beyond question that the Koran repeatedly affirms womens inferiority to men.

Arnold Ward, Weybridge, Surrey, UK

Yet another example of why the West should be more tolerant of other cultures. Now if you don't mind, I'm off to read more books this year than the entire muslim world, whilst not beating my wife.

Mike, Pittsburgh,

Sam Booth, London, UK - unfortunately, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is not recognized by many of the world's muslims, who instead point to the Cairo declaration of human rights in Islam, a watered down version that preserves the primacy of sharia law - and all the human rights abuses that sharia entails.

Nick, Rotherham, UK

For the Muslims who say this has nothing to do with Islam, here is a challenge: Mohammad did things that would be illegal in the UK today; my challenge is, condemn something Mohammad did - ANYTHING - on this page, then perhaps you may inspire some confidence in your religion. If you don't condemn anything he did, you condone everything by your silence. Put your money where you mouths are or nobody will believe a word you say.

Hubert, London, England

I'm surprised by the number of xenophobic comments on here in such a public forum. I'm white and proud to be British, concerned about immigration and islamic extremists much the same as the next person but this is quite scary to read. On the one hand we could be being quietly and decisively taken over by Muslim seniors and Sharia Law destined to become an Islamic State - or, we're all a bunch of paranoid racists and have linked this crime to religion because it suits us to do so? Either the way the future is not looking great.

Vic, Derby, Derbyshire

The first sentence of the article says: "A GIRL of 15 was tricked into a "telephone marriage" ceremony ... in a ceremony recognised by sharia (Islamic law)."

And people wonder why Islam is mentioned in the article??

Annabel, Dorset, UK

Au contraire Joe, I do not practice religion but I still have the decency to respect other religions. How can you be "disgusted" by a religion that you do not know much about. Obviously I am making assumptions, as you have of my religious faith, but i beleive you are misinformed of the nature of Islam. I understand how people can have ideas about the religion by how it is portrayed in the media but it is illogical to do so. I assume you have not lived in a Muslim country either so how do you know women are treated badly. There are several emminent politicions, doctors and scientists who are female and Muslim. Of course there are fanatics in this world, but fanaticism is not only a muslim thing. Its in every religion from the White Christian Suppremists in USA to Hindu and Sikh extremists in India. Your argument is weak I'm afraid. Maybe you should read about the history of other religions such as Christianity before you respond with such trite.

I.U, London, UK

Religion is not mentioned in violent crimes unless it's an ethnic minority. How many "Christians" have committed equally appalling acts. It's the individuals who are to blame.

K. Jordan, Abergavenny, UK

Whoever said on this thread that this type of behaviour only happens amongst British South Asians is either ill informed, in denial or a liar plain and and simple. This type of behaviour has been documented in Gaza, the West Bank, Jordan, Qatar, Iran, Saudi Arabia just to mention a few places other than Pakistan.

A.M., Birmingham, UK

Many muslims here speak out in the comments section, how "evil" that all is and foremost (of course) "un-islamic".

Didn't they read the article or know they're ideological system anymore ?

The Times wrote:
............................................
The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain. She is typical of the runaway brides at risk of an "honour killing".
............................................
"Approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain"... This is the real scandal!!!!!!!!! Is the "Sharia Council in Britain" un-islamic???

Thomas, Frankfurt am Main, Germany

If these families are so desparate to stop their children becoming westernised why do they come here? And let's call 'honour' killings what they are - murder.

carole, London, UK

I am absolutely disgusted by the pathetic and uneducated responses that have been posted in response to this article. Islamic culture is not full of uncivilised barbarians as many people seem to have implied through their comments - go and look at your history books, look at the history of Andalucia to find that Islamic culture was at the forefront of medicine, cleansiness, hygiene, art, irrigation etc. If anything Islam has been the civilising force behind many western countries. And as for the comments regarding Islamic family values I think many British families would do well to follow their example when it comes to bringing up children, taking care of your elderly parents, grandparents, and the sick rather than sticking them in care homes so they can be conveniently out of the way! This family's treatment of the girl was abhorrent and pure evil and should be recognised as such rather than an opportunity to bash another culture/religion which has plenty of positive aspects to it.

Zara, Herts, UK

This report accurately points out that the real cause of this problem are Politicians and Public Officials who simply refuse to act because of PC paralysis.

Cultural sensitivity has never been an excuse for moral blindness and we all know that absolutely nobody ever voted for so-called community leaders who seem to impose themselves in the public sphere – now they can even claim benefits for multiple wives in polygamous relationships.

Isn't it time for the Government, society and each of us to assert that there is only one law in this country? We must all be equal under it with no exceptions. There must be no more special pleading for minority groups and the family courts also need to be religion free. We can also sack each and every one of the Police Constables who refuse to do their job or are even complicit in criminal activity – same goes for the taxi drivers.

Of course, to do any of this requires true political will and a moral backbone so don't hold your breath.

Jason Mead, Bristol, England

Maybe when the people are fed up with this crap they will outlaw any arranged marriages and start to send these pople to prison for long periods of time. Is this England or Saudi?

TC, denver, USA

Who is ruling this country - British or Sharia Law?

Lucy, London,

to zee in Geneva-
please dont be racially/nationally or religiously ignorant. these honour killings are not only limited to muslims but also Hindus and Sikhs.Also many other parts of the world. lets be constructive and reasonable about dealing with this ghastly state of affairs.

Yasmeen, high wycombe, UK

To all the xenophobes and quick to judge, this is truly a barbaric and unacceptable event by any means. I'm a muslim and cant see how the Sharia Council would have 'let' this go by, something doesn't seem right. As mentioned these are deeply culturally bound and ignorant, immoral individuals, Islam DOES NOT allow this, EVER, in any way, shape or form.

The article mentions the police and those in authority turn a blind eye, its hard enough for girls of this background to stand up against the family, but when those who are meant to 'serve and protect' let you down, leak information, etc, where do you go for help?

Yes it IS an issue, and yes we are speaking out about it, but as always there's always something in the media about Islam/Muslims, or something PC related, which doesn't help!

Please people I agree with you when you say these nutters need to be kicked out and for the record were not trying to take over...well I'm not!

A concerned muslim.

Irfan, Preston, Lancs

Irfan, Preston, Lancs, England

Considered the most translated document on planet earth
THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS

Article 4.
No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

Article 5.
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

Article 16.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

TIMES Newspaper, please could you put the UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS and other important instruments in circulation? Brits will recognise their identity and core values.

Sam Booth, London, UK

This is an extreme example, but the truth is many West Asian families (not just Muslims) in Britain would threaten, disown, or pressure their daughters for marrying someone outside of their faith or colour. Native Britons are far more likely to marry people from another culture or faith. I think it shows the growing tolerance of native Brits, as opposed to the intollerance of many immigrants from certain parts of the world. Might be time for the immigration authorities to consider looking at this issue and consider limiting immigration largely to peoples more likely to integrate and become part of British society.

john, London, England

How Islamic Sharia Council could runs if rules against Home Office?
Foreign and Commonwealth Office's forced marriage unit ?Sounds like a Monthy Phyton film!
Have you british enough tax payers money to hold all the forced brides of the muslin world at your refuges?

jabberwocky, Wonderland, Spain

Plz plz it has nothing to do with Islam or Pakistan. No one supports such action in Pakistan. A normal Pakistani muslim knows that a person of "Unsound Mind" cann't enter into any contranct including marriage which is a contract under Sharia Law. So this marriage is Null and void from the very begining. Instead of lashing all the muslims or Pakistanis (which has become a happy hunting ground for most of the westners), we should focus our attention on culprits which include every member of the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain on account of endorsing such marriage.
In the end, I will endorse the views of my friend Mr. Taimur (from London).

Majid Khan, Lahore, Pakistan

Our laws are made by our elected representatives in parliament and apply equally to everyone throughout the area of jurisdiction. That is democracy.

The police and other enforcement authorities have a statutory duty to apply these laws equally, to everyone throughout the area of jurisdiction.

Judges have a statutory duty to interpret the law and apply it equally, to everyone etc etc

What is so difficult about that?

Neither Goverment Ministers nor Chief Constables have the authority to interpret the law or to be selective in where and how the law is applied.

I live in France, I speak French, government documents and forms are in French, civil servants speak French, the law is applied without any consideration for religion or ethnicity.

Why is it that Britain (British Governments) gets it so wrong?

By pandering to noisy minorities this goverment has done more damage to multi-culturism than any previous government.

R Bingham, Lauzun, France

When are the British going to wake up to the enemy within,which they have,so far,signally failed to acknowledge.The concept that Sharia,so-called,law is allowed to operate side by side with the Laws of England is nothing short of a gross dereliction of duty by legislators.That young women should continue to treated in such a manner is a gross violation of their human rights.
Every immigrant from non-European backgrounds should be obliged to swear allegiance to the constitution,and also be obliged to pass a language test before admission.

L.A.Healy, Dublin, Ireland

People need to realise that forced marriages is not a part of Islam but peoples backward culture or parents. Show me anywhere in the Quran where it does say this??? The ignorance of some peoples comments surprises me there are bad eggs in every religion/culture and country. The media amplifies this because of the issue of islamic fundamentalisim. Why not have the headline as 'Family of Pakistani Teen invited men to rape her' because they want a reaction and that headline would not get much of a reaction compared to the muslim headline thats what it comes down to.

I know more than enough people who have westernised and kept some of their culture(me being one of them) why shouldn't we be allowed to have the best of both worlds and that is not just muslims but other cultures and religions. What i am more concerned with is that there does not seem to be much sympathy for the girl in this situation but has turned into an oppurtunity to criticise islam. My heart goes out to her

Sabc, London,

'What is our country turning into before our very eyes. '

'When in Europe do as the Europeans do ! .... or leave ! '

Question to all who sadly feel this way. I was born in this country like my parents, their parents, their parents parents etc.

I am one of those 'evil' ones, but this is MY COUNTRY where do you propose to send me??

R Foote, Leicester, UK

Sometimes I wonder if it is not more to do with culture than religion.
I say this because I am of Nigerian descent (a christian) and I know muslims in my region of Nigeria don't get forced to marry their cousins (any father that tries it will be considered mad) or anyone else for that matter.
Even muslims from the Northern region in Nigeria who you may refer to as the more "extreme2 muslims do not FORCE their kids to marry. Maybe they could introduce to their family friends.
I really pity these girls.

olu, Amersham, London

Noone can be expected to read this article without feeling positively repulsed. I am sure many readers shared my sentiments of absolute anger and disgrace that these practices occur in our nation. However, we need to recognise that this isn't what Islam teaches; these are the acts of mentally ill criminals, not devout Muslims. I, myself, am Jewish and not Muslim, but I am able to separate religious acts from these acts of rape and torture.

What we need is a dialogue where it is made abundantly clear that this behaviour will be dealt with as severely as the law permits but not right-wing rhetoric. If all our dialogue is based around how different our cultures are, then the gap between these cultures will seem un-bridgable and we will never have assimilation. As a secular Jew, I have enjoyed the freedom of expression England provides.

Adam Daniels, London,

It was interesting to read your article but i am struggling to understand what this has got to do with Islam. None of this behaviour is allowed in Islam, it comes out of the backward and masoganistic cultural practics of people from areas such as Pakistan. I certainly don't see why there was any need for the "Muslim" reference in the title.

Graham little, London,

A criem is a crime, no matter who commits it. To hold back because of misguided nonsense about 'sensitivities' is appalling. Other police should go in there and not only prosecute these families with the full force of the law (then deport them?), but having done that they should then prosecute those who have turned a blind eye to these things.

No matter what other ocuntries may allow in the field of abuse, we must not. And we must not allow Muslims & Hindus to bring such behaviour here.

Dominic Stockford, Teddington,

have we had enough cultural enrichment yet?

pete, Hull,

Your post is just a flurry of obscurantism Dr I.U. Like most Muslims (I assume you are one) you simply won't admit the facts about your religion. In countries where Islam is practised undiluted, attitudes to women like this are almost universal. Women are oppressed and subjugated, and if they disobey the Muslim codes are subject to barbaric penalties and violence. Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, its all the same barbarity.

"But no one actually reads about history any more do they?"

Yes we do - its Muslims who do not. These attitudes, and others, trace back to the example and times of Mohammed who had a harem of girls, one of whom was nine - treated like cattle.

Your response "Dr I.U," and that of a few others here, just confirms the outrage and disgust that people feel about Islam. Instead of admitting the facts, you deflect them and are more interested in protecting your religion from criticism.

Joe, Manchester,

Let’s be brutally honest. There is no place for Islam in a civilised country. Period.

James, Budapest, Budapest

I'm also a muslim and just can say: That this news always shocks me and makes me every time angry
if these ppl thing that this has something to do with Islam .... well those ppl misunderstood islam from the top to the bottom!

Those ppl bring the whole muslim community into shame... and show how undereducated they are...
Forced Marriage is forbidden in Islam... this is maybe legal to the "salafiye" or to "wahabiye" who pull Islam into dirt!
no wonder that such those girls, who were in a forced marriage later than convert to any other religon and pblish a book about how bad Islam was to them!

Islamic Organization in England should immediately react against forced marriage and protect those girls!!

It's a matter how parents raise their children appropriate in Europe! If they can't cope with this situation they should really think of further training.

Sahra, vienna, Austria

I feel disgusted by some comments left on this page about Islam. Don't blame the religion, blame the people responsible. Religion cant be used as an escape goat for everything thats happening. All religions have practiced such barbaric pracitices now or in history and thus it is unjustified to say its all down to Islam. But noone actually reads about history anymore do they? Comments such as people like this, implying those from an ethnic background, should "leave" are naive and racist. Immigration has brought its problems but without immigrants the country would not function. Who can actually claim that they are native to this country?I do condone what has been said in this article but its not down to religion its "education". Instead of saying inflammatory comments we should try to stop the route by educating people of the problem and trying to solve it.

Dr I.U, London,

To the person who asked, for how long are the indigenous British population going to put up with this?, the answer is simple: for a while yet.

We have been bought off with cheap, unsustainable credit which means that we don't think beyond next year's Caribbean cruise or "stag" weekend in Prague or Tallin.

When the Brits do wake up from their slumber they may find it's too late - i.e. this country will have been culturally and ethnically Balkanised and politicians (being the unscrupulous types they are) will act in favour of whoever delivers the most votes for the least effort, and that is the various "minority" groups.

Myles, Glasgow,

The same minority groups who cite the importance of the rights of the individual to further their own selfish causes, are often at the extreme end of abusing those rights.

When did race & religion become more important than gender equality & the right that everyone has to life?

Being critical of Islam is not racist, nor prejudiced, it is absolutely essential for the health & freedom of women.

VB, London, UK

Wether religious or culteral - murder is murder, and rape is rape. However in Christain-based societies like Europe & the America's we value (or we used to) human life more than many Muslim-based societies. Like Osama bin Laden is quoted as saying in reference to the war, "Islam will beat the West because the West values life, where we (Islam) values death." I don't think he's saying Islam values murder, I think he is simply stating that the West (Christian societies) value individual life & liberty than much of Islam.
We on both sides of the Atlantic need to take a real hard look at our PC (a phrase coined by communists) societies and how quickly our tolerance and repect for others is tearing down our societies. We need to return to more traditional ways, with the enlightenment of the past 150 years guiding our decisions. Never to repress race, sex or creed, but definately to protect our culture and societies from falling to atheism or Islam.

joe, Atlanta, Georgia, US

Islam is not a religion. Islam = evil
I am sorry for those "good muslims", but since I can not distinguish which of them are good and which of them are bad...I'd rather walk thousand kilometers away from them. I don't want them to be my friends, I don't want to sit with them in one room, not to mention the same airplain.....I am not a racist, but I do see the difference between muslim culture and western culture and I am not afraid to admit it....

And I am tired to force someone to live in democracy....It is like, they would force us to obey their "stone age" laws...I would never do it...
If they don't like democracy and our laws we should start to build a giant wall and sparate thier world from ours....I want to live, not to think about muslims, what are they going to do next...
I don't like them and I never will...I am scared of them!

Dagmar, Hlohovec, Slovak Republic

It's nothing to do with the religion, it's down to the people. My parents are from Pakistan and Muslims, it's never happened in our community of friends and family, forcible marriages etc...Events like this are down to people.

Haider, London, UK

I have Sikh friends who are undergoing similar problems so it is an Asian issue. Political attention for various reasons on the Muslim community shouldn't blind us to the existence of the same issues facing sikh and hindu girls. And what of the white girls who are threatened by racist/xenophobic parents when they want to marry outside their culture? There's a lot of posturing and chauvenism, but its young people of many cultures who are suffering. And disapproval of marriage/partner choices has afflicted even royalty - as we all know from the stories of our first citizens.

Keyf, Brockley,

There is no place for this type of behaviour. It is not native to these isles and never will be. Such people need to be removed from our society as they fail to accept a civilised way of living.

Whom amongst our politicians will have the guts to stand up for what the majority (for the time being) believe? Alas, I know the answer. There will be conflict ahead, possibly direct action, as the voices of the indigenous peoples are no longer heard.

We must prevail. Our country will not be surrendered to those dark forces that seek to expunge all that is pleasant from our native land.

The politicians will learn this to their cost.

Paul, Manchester, UK

Sick. We obviously need to convert these people to be good Christians to stamp this sort of thing out! Or is that not PC? Tough, but I'm not putting up with it!

Lukey Boy, Herts., UK

My dear God.
What is our country turning into before our very eyes.
The authorities MUST enforce the law of this land and allow no other law to take precedence.
There can be no compromise with ethnic minority beliefs.
British law must be upheld
Zero tolerance must be the name of the game before it is too late

J Taylor, Colchester, UK

Sir,

We in the Europe (and particularly Britain) are totally blinded by political correctness !

One tenth of the 'contrary to society' behaviour described in this article would see any Westerner literally torn to shreds on the streets of any Muslim country!.... try walking around the streets under-dressed (not naked!).... or approaching a woman/girl.... yet Muslims here have no issues with approaching European women !

Through our PC approach we actively encourage a world of double standards.

Individuals and organisations (such ans the Islamic Sharia Council) should be forced to subscribe to European law & Human Rights - promotion of values contrary to ours should face termination of the organisation and/or permanent deportation of the individual...

My comments have nothing to do with religion, it is question of Respect ! I respect anyones views - but Europe is our land, our society, it is therefore OUR choice.

When in Europe do as the Europeans do ! .... or leave !

Jones, London,

I think we are going to have to stop the 'fetching' marriages, place serious age restrictions on marriage to overseas citizens, and prevent them from marrying cousins from their home countries - as it is used as a means of immigration. Otherwise the marriage will not be recognised and the all important British residency visa not granted. Other European countries have taken these measures with some success.

I think we have to have a new government. One that realises that we need to do certain things that are not always going to be seen as being 'culturally sensitive'. The Muslim community needs to be brought into the modern world; to achieve this some sort of barrier must be placed between them and the old world.

Symond, London, England

The Government's decision to allow men in polygamous mariages to receive state benefits for their 'extra' wives, even though polygamy is against British law , continues to place Muslim men above our legal system. This paranoid fear of offending Muslims is driving justice from our society. It really is about time this Country stood up for the values that we as citizens have fought for, for centuries: equality for everyone regardless of gender or race, with secular laws not interefered with by male-dominated religions that are grossly abusive of women's rights to live without oppression from men.

J.E.Poole, Romsey, Hants, UK

I cannot imagine EVER treating my daughter in the way described. This behaviour to people is illegal under UK law and as such should be prosecuted - no if or buts.
Repect for cultural differences has limits - this is one of the them

Tony , Cardiff,

I am sick of reading the quote "this has nothing to do with Islam". It has everything to do with it. It is a controlling religion that treats women like slaves and the honour system killing is an ideal extension of it. It is not the culture it is the religion. 'Women' and 'choice' in Islam - an oxymoron. It's do -or die that is their real 'choice'
It wasn't the brightest idea in the world to allow mass muslim immigration into the UK. Most half-wits knew they would fail to integrate and would bring their violent form of bigotry to our shores. You do not reform by pandering. You reform by confrontation.
The government are colluding with the Islamic population in propagating every bad aspect of this religion. Faith schools will soon have muslim inspectors - another catastrophic, stupid error by grossly ignorant politicians. Muslims are shutting us out of their little world. it is going to cause more social tension.
The police now look at minority crime with a PC eye.

David Thijm, Stourbridge, UK

I'm of South Asian ancestry. This behaviour is deplorable. It really begs the question, should these people even move to the West? My family migrated to the West to live a different life, in a Westernised way. My father and mother were both very wealthy and didn't come for financial reasons alone. In fact nearly all of my relatives haven't left. It was for education and cultural reasons my parents decided to emigrate.

We shouldn't accept this tribal behaviour. Rape is rape, murder is murder regardless of the race or religion of the perpetrator. Last I checked those were heinouse crimes.

Leonard H, Perth, Australia

I agree with the phrase 'when in rome do as the romans do'
hence respecting the laws of the land is mandatory

leading an ethical, good and moral life does not require religion... its about about time that we all realised that religion of all kinds is just a corrupt money making scheme whih does more to divide humanity than to unite... Believe in a God all you want, but to follow any 'holy' story book is detrimental... Do Christian's really believe Jesus was resurrected? Do Muslims believe their prophet rode a winged horse into heaven or Jews believing Moses parted the seas?? We're in the 21st century people.!!!

n singh, birmingham, uk

As a Muslim I see this as I crime. This girl should no way have been forced to marry, nor should she have been forced into prostitution. I'm not sure why the Times have chosen to publish this article. It only vilifies Islam and Muslims. This is not any different to the act's that go on in London, where women are exploited sexually and promised work in this country. Yet, we don't pinpoint such a crime on the Christian segment of society.

sohiab, london, herts

Why has the government not acted against the Sharia Council of Britain? Why does everybody have to pussyfoot around Islamic issues? Why, as it would appear, do so few Pakistani families have any honour? The government seems to be colluding with foreigners to make this an Islamic country, it is not and hopefully will never be so, if this is the standard of treatment towards women that seems to be prevalent within some societies.

David Leslie, Perth, Scotland

Again another misleading headline! Why the word "muslim" and not "Pakistani"? There are hundreds of millions of muslim in other countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia who do not practice honour killing because it is not in their culture. Please do not confuse culture with religion

Zee, Geneva, Switzerland

This medieval behaviour, which seems to be widespread among UK resident muslims, reminds me of the courageous headteacher Ray Honeyford, who in the 1980s warned of the standards of 'parenting' demonstrated by his muslim pupils' parents. His career was quickky ruined by the screams of 'racist' from the Left's multiculturalists. The Left's plans then to create a divided Balkanised state in the UK are continuing to proceed at an impressive pace.

Alan, Haslemere, Hampshire

Sorry Carole Naylor, I said that their citizenship should be revoked - and I am Muslim. Maybe people live in such stereotypes that they just see and believe what they want to, and for "civilized opposed to uncivilized, Muslim ipposed to Chistrianity" comments here (many from North America), lets not start about murdering 1/2 mn Gypsies and 6 mn Jews, or X mn Amernican natives or or ... all done in the time of enlightenment!

Taimur, London,

so women in islam can choose their husband?

what choice had aisha at 6 years old? what choices had the slaves (war booty) of your prophet?

barbara, italy,

So this is the multicultural Britain that Nulabour want all of us to be a part of? What ever happened to Human Rights Nulabour or do those only apply when NON Muslims are involved? This barbaric custom of 'honour killings' is alien to most Muslims but those fanatics who perpretrate it should be deported never to return as they are not fit to live among decent people.

George, Glasgow, UK

These things are against British law. They should not be tolerated and neither should the perpetrators. Uncivilised people should not be able to hide behind religious laws of any kind. Richard Dawkins is correct in at least one respect when he points to the unwarranted respect that religious adherence often has simply because it is religious.

Peter Orme, Nanaimo, BC, Canada

All religions have their dark side and ignorant or fanatical followers are not particular to Islam. However Islam does , by all reports, seem to have the preponderance of them at the moment.

Bob, Reno, Nevada

This has nothing to do with Islaam ,, this is something from their culture.
A muslim girl has the choice on who to marry , her parents like any parents can advice her , but force her no way, this has happened due to her and her family's ignorance .

UMM Ahmed , Dubai , UAE

The Government has shed its responsibility in the name of political corrrectness and multiculturalism, which can never work so long as people do not acept the same laws and customs.
All the Government has to do is enforce the law and if this is not sufficient make sure that sharia law and any religious customs that go against the laws of the country are made illegal.
Those who are unwilling to to accept Western ideals, with their faults, should leave and find a country which suits their own beliefs.
This problem is one that needs resolving not only in the UK but by every European nation through the U.E. The alternative will ultimately lead to civil unrest and a collapse of our society

peterfieldman, paris, france

Absolutely horrific. All done in the name of religion and culture. Excuses really, these people are common criminals and should not be allowed to hide behind their so called way of life.

Dave, Cork, Ireland

yesterday there was news regarding labour govt proposal to give extra benefit for men w/ multiple wives even tho' such practise is banned in the u.k. under the bygamy law, however, as the news continued, if the person can prove that the marriage(s) took place somewhere outside britain then it shall be regarded as 'qualified'. and hence the extra benefit for men w/ 2, 3 or 4 (max-according to islam) wifes, paid for by the british tax payers. and now this news...wallahualam

geoff, bradford,

Human Rights and acceptance of the Rule of Law are not negotiable. Damn the consequences of offending so called religious sensibilities. Prosecute the family - Throw away the key, revoke their citizenship, deport them.
They are typical of the Moslem - Pakistani mentality, that believes it is morally superior because some ill-educated Immam has told them that this is what the Koran says.
There is no place in Britain for people like this. When are British people going to say, 'Enough' ?
Tell them to behave in a civilised manner and yes I did say 'civilised' because this is not civilised and if moslems don't like these comments, then I have a question for you - What are you doing about changing your society to stop this behaviour ?

Riley, Kiev, Ukraine

For decades now, we have been led to believe that "diversity"
is good, and the values that have made Europe and America
are bad. And as a man I must admit that Islam would place me
above women no matter how great a failure I might be.
However, we as Westerners cannot deny that Islam tolerates
and accepts the abuse and places a reduced value on women. The forced marriages, circumscion of women and the
Honor Killings must not be accepted. At some point we must
have the courage to say that this is wrong, unacceptable and
yes quite simply SAVAGE CONDUCT . There is a right and wrong, when we lose sight of that we perish as a civilization.

Rick, Chicago, USA

This sort of thing happens all the time in the Europe, and has generally become acceptable in Russian and Eastern Europe. So please tone down the peasantry and apply your outrage to the crime and not the fact that it happened to a Pakistani girl.

Sara, NYC, NY

This Is Islam for you - the religion of peace and tolerance.... for MEN.

In Malaysia's muslim-controlled states, girls who are raped must prove that they are properly covered, did nothing to seduce or attract the men rapists. Of course, the rapists never get charged. The Islamic system is devised in such a way that women are born to serve men.

Religion of peace for MEN ONLY.

SK Lin, Singapore,

"We should recall that similar things happen in Britain and the USA all the time. "

Yes, fundamentalist Christians in the U.S. and UK forcibly marry their 15-year-old daughters to disabled men and force them into prositituion. It's so common, it's practically epidemic. And Jeeze, the constant stories here of girls being shot by their Christian fathers for having a boyfriend or talking to a man when she is not chaperoned, or wearing revealing clothing, gosh the bodies are piling up!! I don't know why westerners just contantly pick on Islam. They are all just normal, you xenophonbes. And all you Christian cops who are turning over Christian girls back to their families after they have run away to avoid honor killings, you just quit being so judgmental of the Muslims when you do it yourselves! And no other Christians ever condemn or villify other Christians ho do all this evil. So you just quit being bigoted to Islam. It's a religion of peace.

Janell, Los Angeles, , CA

Khalid,
I wholeheartedly applaud you for your comments defending the true Islam faith, but you must remember that no TRUE Christian could keep a slave, let alone a sex slave.
I am a Christian & I also know sharia law.
I have read the Qu'ran (Koran) from front to back, many times to well acquaint myself with the Muslim religion.

By the way, the Qu'ran also refers to many events from Jewish and Christian scriptures, retelling some of these events in comparatively distinctive ways from the Bible and the Torah, while obliquely referring to other events described explicitly in those texts.

From reading the posted article, I assume that the offenders are in custody, awaiting trial and sentencing, as is the practice in England as well as here in Australia.
That may be the reason for no mention of the perpetrators status, as we are "innocent until proven guilty".

William George, Sydney, Australia

Khalid, you're the first person I;ve seen who's associated this story with religion, specifically Islam vs Chritianity. Methinks you do protect too much. hwther there are 60,000 child sex slaves in America or not, that in no way justifies what was doen (and might still be done) to thus young girl. It's about time Muslims in this country spoke out against such barabarity by parents tioward their fenale children. If the're some reason you can't, look to the underlying causes.

JamesY, Glasgow,

Surely the time has come to distribute the Universal Declaration of Human Rights among other important instruments to everyone, as a guide to acceptable and unacceptable behaviour as well as uncivilised/civilised behaviour in the UK and Europe.

There are numerous outlets including airplanes, airports, schools, hospitals, places of worship, etc.

It amazes me, the UK has never insisted on recognition and respect for the UDHR before awarding British citizenship. Having problems today are we?

Sam Booth, London, UK

Does anybody else think its odd that Muslim women chose to tolerate this conduct? I know this individual girl had no choice at all. But as a community Muslims do not seem to have female organisations or support groups in the way that there the West does. It would be difficult to organise but the West managed it.

jo, grays, uk

DId I miss the part about the mother in law and her family being in JAIL?? Or were they even detained?

Lee, Atlanta,

The comments here are amazingly xenophobic.

What the elders of this girl have done is evil, by any moral standard, western or Islamic, and by any cultural standard, British or Pakistani. You are not going to find any traditional Muslim scholar who approves of forcing a girl into such a marriage and renting her out for prostittution!

We should recall that similar things happen in Britain and the USA all the time. According to the New York Times, there are approximately 60,000 child sex slaves in the USA, the vast majority of them from families of Christian heritage. Yet we do not blame Christianity for this evil.

Khalid, Edmonton,

"Many Asian parents would rather resort to violence against their children than see their reputation tarnished by the perceived dishonour of allowing them to become "westernised"."

Incredible hypocrisy, if true.

There's a simple solution for those who don't want to become "westernised".

Jon Leigh, Southern, France

I wonder if those who have commented on "Muslim values" actually have had any contact with Muslims? Any practicing Muslim knows that honour killing and forced marriages are
abominations.

This is a real problem that needs to be tackled, but I fear the incident is being used as an excuse for Muslim-bashing. This whole article hangs on an organisation called the Islamic Shariah council approving this marriage. I'd like to know what this "approval" means, its all too little vague...

Honour

Mohamed D, London,

These Traditions are not Islamic at all, if in any case this family was not following Islam, as in Islam the women have a right to choose their husband, Islam does not condone encourage or endorse women into forced marriage.

The religion itself is against these heinous crimes.

Mohammed, London,

i'm surprised that non of the respondents asked to SEND all muslims back- yet

saud, riyadh,

I agree with Barbara...revoke their citizenship and send them back to their country of origin.
Looks like Britain doesn't have any backbone anymore. What happened to "Rule Britannia" the Britons never never shall be slaves!
Looks like they already are.

Carole Naylor, prince albert, Canada.

It is wrong, absolutely no excuse about culture or misinterpreted religion. Time the religious leaders openly condemed such activities. Punishment for the perpetraitors and those colluding should be sewere - revoke citizenship!

Barbara - Islam is not a cult (trying to provoke ?)

Taimur, London,

This is nothing new. This is a case of the uncivilized and unscrupolous world colliding with the civilized and scrupulous world.

wayne, boston, usa

Some will say this was only a bad family in a good & peacful Religion. I say NOT! I say Islam is the root of the problem. I say Islam is bent on politically controlling people through a violent religion and opressive Sharia Law.

Good Muslims in Islam are too weak to speak out ... because the Islam machine will never speak out against the wrong that occurs under Sharia Law. This weakness is what makes Islam EVIL. Satan is allowed to reign through Sharia fear mongering within the Muslim community. It is time Muslims change Islam to a moderate religious system & one that does not politically control or hold ground to govern. Islam says submit (or else). Christinaity says decide for yourself.

Object all you want, Islam is demonstrated as the motivation of violence every day. If you object with what I have written above then start proving it through action in Islam instead of through talk.

Proud Christian, Lebanon, PA, USA

If the UK doesn't get tough on the Muslim extremists, it'll soon look pretty much like Iraq or Lebanon. Those countries also have Muslim extremists in their police forces, leaking classified information, sabotaging operations, and undermining the enforcement of secular laws. Better drop the political correctness soon guys, or Sharia law will take over your entire government. Good luck, we're facing some of the same difficulties here.

Jerry, Miami, USA

Forced marriages are not allowed in Islam...its as simple as that.

m, london,

Were an "honour killing" to take place in Texas, the one in the U.S. and not the fictitious one of Richard Five, the perpetrators would receive the death penalty . In form and in fact.

Lloyd Petre, Long Beach, California

If racism was correctly defined as treating people differently (and that includes better as well as worse ) because of their race colour or creed then the political establishment and the various authorities (police, schools, social workers etc ) would no longer be able to turn a blind eye to illegal acts of this kind.
This is a secular society in which all religious beliefs have to be subjugated to the rule of law.

Ian Richards, Manchester, England

Honour killings are a custom for people from particular regions and have nothing to do with Islam. Islam condemns murder in the strongest terms and the vast majority of muslims loathe to be associated with people that carry out such appalling crimes.

Under no circumstances does Sharia Law permit forced marriage or rape. To the contrary, these acts go completely against the spirit and letter of Sharia Law. Rhiannon - one of the qualities that we in the west like to think we display is tolerance - perhaps you could do with a little. Perhaps also, those who follow religions have opened their eyes and see something different to that which you see; that doesn't make them close minded.

As for the comment that 'Muslims' values are so far...'' ; I respect those younger than me, those older than me and my pier alike; I believe in marriage as an institution that binds society and importantly I also believe that there should be no compulsion in religion so please avoid generalisations.

Mohamed , London, UK

Disgusting in any age. What were they thinking?

Mark Paterson, Johannesburg,

as amuslim i am ashamed what is happening in the of islam , how dare they claim ie sharia council that they represent all muslin they are nothing .who gives them the authority to speak on my behalf
sharia or shar .thisword means the path or the road leading to the water ie a way to the very source of life so how come we the so called sharia council has any right to say that 16 year old girl marriage is justified

zahed hossain, london ,

concerned british muslim, since you are sooo concerned, why don't you comment on the establishment of sharia law, which is a anti-human rights system, as we know from the many non-muslim persecuted in every muslim majority countries?

Stop defending your cult. Islam is about dominance and violence. If your cult is so powerful why you cant stop female mutilation that happens for the most part in muslim countries?

barbara, italy,

No civilised country should accept or/and tolerate practices and customs that are against human rights, the dignity of the person, and the freedom of the individual within the context of an organised society.

Stamatoula, York, UK

Isn't it about time that sharia law was made illegal in the UK, and suitable punishments to all those that follow it.

Anyone that can't see that religion was nothing but a method of controlling a large population and making them behave my fear of an unknown force should open their eyes to the world a little more.

Rhiannon, Oxford,

Muslims' values are so far removed from those of us in the West we really need to have a good long think about why we allow these arranged marriages to happen.

Two political/judicial systems are evolving in the UK, one which allows Muslims to carry out antiquated practiceswhich no one dare question in this PC world, the other system for the rest of us in this once fine country.

Meanwhile our MPs (or at least MP Mr Khan) do nothing about this whilst finding the extradition of his suspected Muslim terrorist friend. Where will it all end?

MikeW, Glos, UK

"The girl's marriage last April was not recognised by the Home Office but was approved by the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain"

The Sharia Council? This is not a legal entity and not a recognised court, why would its opinion matter. The only thing that matters is the law pertaining to England surely. I am tired of hearing about this 'Council'. It should not even be allowed to operate in any capacity.

Robert, Virginia Beach, USA

As long as the families involved in these sick crimes are allowed to get away with it, they will carry on terrorising and murdering young girls. It's basically slavery - how come it still exists 200 years after supposedly being abolished?

Emma Chambers, Paris,

I keep hearing about the 'Islamic Sharia Council in Britain', lately.
When did it come about that we have two separate legal systems in Britain? I thought we had one law, for all? I think we should be told.

John Flemming, Scunthorpe, UK

Rickard Five: "It's not Rape if you are paying for it!!!"

It is rape if the woman is not consenting. Simple.

Even as a prostitute, consent is rarely a clear-cut thing. You might have been forced into it by others or by economic circumstances.

Nick, Leicester

Nick, Leicester, England

Please,please,please......Islam does not permit parents to force their daughters into marriages like this. Rather it advises parents to marry their daughters to someone of the same standard of intellectual and social ability, someone who will be thier "other half", someone who will give them as much love and respect as they deserve.

This is not Islamic, but purely ancient cultural traditions which Islam came to abolish along with female infanticide which was rampant in the pre-Islamic era, especially in the Asian sub-continent.

Please posters and readers, dont mix up culture and religion.

A concerned British Muslim

saifi, Burton,

This is directly attributable to multi culturalism and political correctness. Politicians should tell Muslims and other cultures that human rights and British law are non negotiable. Sharia Law cannot and will not ever have legal force in this country. People cannot choose which laws they like and don't like on the basis of culture, religion or anything else. It is time to simply say no.

Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK

All in the name of 'religion'? Funny that! Its about time muslim culture got in line with the culture of the country they are living and the last time I looked Britain wasn't under sharia law. Please don't say its only the extremists or a handful of muslims, everyone needs to open their eyes!! Shows how fickle this 'religion' is when you force your own child into a marriage they don't want, carry out honour killings for family members that go against the beliefs or invite men to rape your daughter. Not really helping their case is it when we read about this on what seems to be a daily basis now??

Matt, Mids, UK

I am always stunned at the hypocrisy of some people. "Many Asian parents would rather resort to violence against their children than see their reputation tarnished by the perceived dishonour of allowing them to become "westernised"." But you are quite happy to live here, and in this case, obtain benefits. If being "westernised" is so disgraceful why did you come here? How can you bear to live in this society? Is anyone forcing you to? One day decent people (and that especially includes those who have accepted the westerised way of life), will say "no more". I personally am fed up with being treated like a second rate citizen in my own country, while politicians pander to the whims of an ungrateful few.

Graeme, London,

These are culturally and religiously damaged people. The level of self-denial and self-deception within the Islamic world, and it's purported superiority is truly phenomenal. I would like to see one or two Muslim people, even on this comments page, to unequivocally state that this is wrong and an abomination. No excuses, no "but you made us do it", no "it's a relative issue". Muslim organisations and individuals need to take part in OUR society and speak out.

Gary, Sunderland,

Rickard Five were you being ironic/made a typo ? The girl isn't paid any money her in-laws are. She gets nothing as she is the 'product/service' that is being bought. Even if she was paid, the violence/threat of violence means that her bought and therefore fake consent is even less real. Rape is exactly what it is. Even worse it's not a one-off attack but imprisonment and slavery with repeated attacks, forced labour and murder thrown in. Wouldn't this be a list of serious offences if it happened to women in Texas ? If it isn't I must make a note to cross Texas off my holiday destination list.

Lisa, Paris,

They key point here is that the Islamic Sharia Council in Britain, has in this case acted against UK Law. I am sure this is not the first or last time this or similar religious immigrant organisations have acted against UK Law.

Firstly all organisations that act illegally should be closed down and should have all benefits from the UK government removed.

Secondly the non-islamic population has to repeatedly and convincingly make it clear to the islamic population that integration is a requirement of UK citizenship.

If mosques are used to preach illegal practises they too must be closed. Any Islamic people who want to prey in such an atmosphere of hate can find a different country to do it in. M15 must spy on each and every Mosque, and report which Preachers and which Mosques allow illegal preaching.

Once Mosques start to be closed the radical islamics who prefer their own law to ours will discover they are not welcome to change Britain into a Sharia State in any way.

Zen, London,

It is rape if the girl was forced, regardless of money transfer. The money probably went to the family holding her, not to her!

Sven Oxtoby, Cape Town, South Africa

Rickard
It is rape if the person objects, whether it's paid for or not.
And we get done for being racist, it's hard not to be.

Dave Madley, Alicante, Spain

Bloke:
it is not just about religion. it is about culture. The only thing I do not understand is why these people, if they are so adamnant about sticking to their own 'culture', should come to another foreign country to impose burdens on those country. (I am not a local myself) but I sincerely believe in the saying that when in rome, do as the romans do.

Jos, london,

What honour is there in Killing Your Own child or colluding to murder someone elses child?
IT'S MURDER & should be treated as such.

suzyn, clacton on sea, essex UK

My Pakistani friend was married, in Japan, to a Japanese lady. His family eventually took umbrage and told him that if he didn't come to Pakistan to marry a Pakistani woman, his brothers would come and kill him.

I always thought he was exaggerating but stories such as this one make me begin to believe that he was telling the truth.

He divorced the Japanese lady and now lives in Japan with his Pakistani wife. He told me that he really loved his Japanese wife.

BC, Japan,

I will start saying that I am not racist. But that doesn't mean either that we have to keep putting up with muslims coming to this country and insult us with their traditions which are simply wrong to the eyes of our society. We are not better than you, we have our oun issues but please, leave that traditions in your contry. I'm sorry that a majority of muslims have to pay with discrimination because of the few rotten apples around but that is how it works I'm afraid.

Danny, Cambridge, UK

How can the Government wring its hands over this aspect of muslim 'culture' at the same time as granting benefits for polygamous wives?

Tricia, E Sussex, uk

If you are paying the girl's family for it and the girl has not given her consent it is still rape. That is British law the last I knew but I'd be grateful if there is a lawyer out there who can confirm whether or not I am right. Maybe Texas has a different law

Irene, Orpington,

This is a can of worms to say the least. However, the statement "with some Asian officers actually colluding in crimes" is very worrying in terms of where society is heading. It is reminiscent of a fifth column in society, not hindered but actually encouraged by our self-destructive left-liberal establishment. If this country has a future, it does not lie in continually voting for the Lib-Lab-Con establishment parties that have brought us to this sorry state of affairs.

Paul Williams, Egham, UK

Nothing surprises me about these dishonor killings any more. They are heinous, truly heinous.

Ellen R. Sheeley, Author
"Reclaiming Honor in Jordan"

ERS, Paris, France

It's not Rape if you are paying for it!!!

Rickard Five , Pickup truck , Texas

I think she better change her religion.

Bloke, Kings Lynn, UK