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From Times Online
February 3, 2008

RAF forced to borrow planes

Michael Smith

THE RAF is being forced to borrow American spy planes and paint roundels on them to replace its fleet of Nimrod R1 signals intelligence aircraft.

The crews of the US Rivet Joint spy planes masquerading as RAF aircraft will not even be totally British with US personnel expected to take control on some missions.

The move, forced by a Ministry of Defence (MoD) cash crisis that rules out the money for a replacement aircraft for the Nimrod R1, has provoked outrage among RAF air crew who say it will mean a major loss of capability.

The MoD said last week a final decision had not yet been taken. But Air Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy, chief of the air staff, briefed air crew during a visit to the Middle-East just before Christmas.

“He told the R1 crew that he had brought them an early Christmas present,” one source said. But when he described the plan to use the RC135 Rivet Joint spy planes the response was blunt.

It was so unenthusiastic and blunt that several RAF officers were subsequently hauled up before their commander for a dressing-down, the source said.

“I am incandescent with rage that we are even considering ditching what is a world-class, ‘gold standard’, war-winning capability in the name of economy and the dubious claimed benefits of greater interoperability with the USAF,” one insider said.

The Nimrod R1 aircraft, among the most secret aircraft in the world, were due to be flown on to 2025 but the loss of one of its sister aircraft, the Nimrod MR2 over Afghanistan in 2006 has forced a rethink.

Both aircraft types suffer from the same fuel leaks and are fitted with the same hot-air pipes that caused the Afghanistan incident in which 14 servicemen died.

Restrictions on the use of hot-air pipes following the inquiry into their deaths has sent temperatures inside the already cramped Nimrod R1s soaring above 50 degrees Celsius.

Initially, RAF chiefs were to replace the Nimrod R1 with a different aircraft which could be fitted with a brand new top-secret signals intercept system called Helix, which is currently under development.

But that would cost more than £600m altogether whereas the cost of sharing the US Air Force’s Rivet Joint aircraft would be much cheaper in the short term.

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There are a few people here that dont understand what the R1 does, It's not awacs therfore not in the same group as the old shackleton or the new E3 sentry. It is also is not a maratime patrol aircraft such as the Poseidon P8 the Nimrod MRA4 does that job very well although we ideally need double what we are getting.
The R1 is an electronic eavesdropping and electronic surveliance aircraft that really needs replaced by simply using the updated MRA4 body with the R1 kit installed.

AWACS is Advanced Warning and Control: Therfore it monitors aircraft in the sky and can control joint operations.

Maratime patrol: It patrols over coastal areas looking for suspect vessels and submarines.

Electronic surveliance: Does the nice things like monitoring ALL radio and microwave frequencies in an area for intelligence. it can also jam radars etc.

I hope that cleared it up??

Euan Stewart, Glasgow, Scotland, UK

Actually, since the R1 Nimrods would be the only three left flying who could afford the cost. A new platform, and avionics would be very expensive. Integration of the Signals Intelligence equipment is a very specialized job. The only folks who do really good work nowdays are the US and Israeli companies.
Having flown on both types, I can understand the RAF gripes about the ELINT fit. However, it's the only thing the UK can afford.

BTW, these are NOT AWACS aircraft as Nick thought. The RAF has already bought the USAF Sentry AWACS to replace the ancient Shackletons.

Bill Strand, Vienna, Virginia, US

Nice way to write around the real point. If the UK does this it will need US support (aka permission) to launch an attach on a country with an operational defensive radar system.

The US doesn't have an over supply of radar jamming aircraft either. So having a solid ally lose their capability is no bargain. Give them the Joint Rivets to run until they figure this out. But hopefully the UK will see the need to build from within sometime soon.

Bob Evan, Vineland, NJ, USA

If you really think the war is worthless you don't need planes. Let the "Yanks " do it..

JoeSF, San Francisco, CA

Its a sad day when we follow the yanks into a pointless war. An even worse day when we dont have our own military equipment!

Farrukh, Woking, UK

Less money to government bureaucracy and social services, more money to Armed forces. I'm sure a £1bn black hole is nothing to these other areas of limitless expenditure.

Richard, London, England

The Government should cough up money for the Boeing P8 Poseidon Multi mission aircraft, just as the Australians are doing.

For me, at a time of increased conflict, cut backs to front line aircraft are not acceptable..

In addition to new P8s, we also need additional C17 transports, will someone please do something?

G. Holland, UK,

bring back the Shackletons- they might have been old technology but at least it was tried and tested technology.
Failing that why don't the RAF buy /lease a job lot of recently retired Boeing 737, 757 and McDonell Douglas MD80, DC9 jets that have just been recently retired by civil avaition operators (British Airways, Bmi, First Choice Airlines etc) and then kit them out with the AEW equipment has to be a more cost effective option than buying new AWACS aircraft?

Nick, Farnborough, Hampshire, Wessex, UK

Obviously, the RAF aircrew who said This is a “very, very short-sighted and very cheap solution”, was an MoD spokesman announcing the Treasury's new policy for the national defence!

Any day, now, we shall see the PM following in the footsteps of New Zealand's Helen Clark and scrapping the RAF's combat capability. That will put Britain right along side the Kiwis in an embarrassing plea for private aircraft owners to provide make-believe air cover for joint training exercises with other nations.

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

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