Shocked,horrified, dismayed. I never thought I would say this - seriously thinking about handing in my British passport. So glad I don't live there any more.

Jacqueline Walker, Limerick, Ireland

Items of news like this seem to mainly polarise peoples' views at the moment. I don't understand whether this is just because the only people who feel it necessary to air their thoughts are those who either feel passionately for or against the proposal, or whether there is a general hysteria amongst the Times readers' population?

Personally i'm not sure if the idea of taking everyone's DNA would be that bad for the un-prosecuted, unless it is used and they are caught having commited a crime.

I'm not a scientist but wouldn't having a record of everyone's DNA fingerprint help further medical research?

The thought of a jail in Selfridges sounds barmy, but would be worth a try to see how it went. If it reduced the number of pick-pockets operating in central London i can't see it being all that unpopular.

Justin, Wuhan, China

i agree this is so orwellian!

have you also seen the cctv camers with loud speakers attached so that the camera controller can shout at passers bye!

Very wierd.
I can imagine that these privately run holding cells will end up like abu grabe, with an abuse scandal and god knows what else. Privately run jails and other services have been terrible failure in this country...so why do we need more.

m elliott, bath, somerset

Remember these are just Home Office proposals, albeit scarey one's. Even if supported by the Commons, I live in hope that by the time the Lords have pulled it to pieces MP's will have returned from the land of the fairies and realise those that vote for them are adults and do not require monitoring 24/7.

Failing that of course the Governments record in IT procurement will mean that by the time the DNA database has increased much beyond it hold the current 5% of the public the system will either become unreliable or so expensive it will be scrapped.

Protect us from the people already convicted first!

David, Ashford, Kent

I think the best way to address the problem is by holding parents responsible ,especially by making financial compensation to victims

spielman, Vancouver, CaNADA,b.c.

Do people think it is normal to in a free society.
I am pleased that I emigrated elsewhere.
Goodbye Britain. You hold no charms for me any more.

J.Lee, Kingston-Upon-Thame, Surrey

This is insufficient - children should be implanted with a small identification and behavioural control device at birth, capable of monitoring every movement and transmitting the data back to a massive government database. The same system could be used to deliver painful electric shocks in the event of the child failing to eat five portions of fruit or veg a day, and would spark of a chain of shocks to each individual whenver five chips are present within a certain proximity, in order to deter loitering in groups. A small microphone could monitor conversations for key words related to terrorist or criminal activities, triggering the chip to deliver a fatal payload of cyanide.
It's plain to see that society is on the verge of collapse - don't ask the doom-prophets to provide any actual evidence of this beyond their vague notion that things aren't as nice as they were - and so radical action must be taken to preserve our free, egalitarian British way of life.

jack, Northampton,

Will the offenders be able to use their Tesco Clubcards while in custody ?

Darryl Johnston, Hastings, England

yet again, our fabulous government is forcing us more and more into a police state. And the poeple who this is affecting? no say. Yet again.

We should stop trying to "patch up" the crime problem and head for the root of the problem. All this is is another money wasting plan that will no doubt backfire.

But i must say that national ID cards, if done correctly, are a good idea in my opinion. having many continental friends i have asked them what having them is like. no major complaints as of yet.

Shaun, Bradford, ENGLAND

The root cause of preventing crime has once again been neatly avoided. Education at home is the key to reducing crime and ant-social behaviour. But this is currently impossible, because the parents unlike their grand parents before have lost this ability;
What is needed are family training courses at local level to teach parents how to educate children properly with sound values, not as is the case at the moment of young single parent mums not equiped for life to bring up children, with the obvious results. Drunken youths roaming the streets, kids having no imagination of what to do,because they have not been educated by their parents in early life.
My parents lived in Forest Hill, London during my chilhood, I didn't have an easy start in life, but my parents spent a lot of time with me at home when they could, in play and visiting a library regularily to read books.
My own children have been brought up in the same way.

John.Gilmore, Chantilly, France

they should have them in full view of the shop customers.. that way the criminals have to be in full view of people who may reconise them.

this would give longer lasting effects when there cuaght after sentancing, being known as a shoplifter to the locals etc. acting as a bigger deterant to the people commiting the crimes..

David McIntosh, Forfar, Scotland

Every few weeks it seems the Labour party release another proposal for oppressing the innocent.

Clearly, unlike businesses, the government does not operate on the principles of supply and demand. Perhaps they should actually ask what people want rather than telling them. I've never ever seen a socialist do that.

Paul, London, UK

british government is more and more resembling a lunatic asylum.
i don't read comedy books any more , just wait for another draft or i should say daft proposal.
no wonder more people are leaving the country but more asylum seekers are coming in .
i think tony blair has totally lost it and we need to seriously rethink the future of this country.where are we going?and what stupid idea is next?
tony blair and the labour party has had it although i voted for them last time.what a big mistake.never ever labour again.

ebbi, london,

I will willingly put my DNA in the national identity bank, when the members of the Houses of Parliament and the Police do it first ... who watches the watchers?

Gary, Exeter, UK

Anyone else worried they might wander into what they think is a shop changing room only to get their finger prints taken?

Sally, Southampton,

Guilty until proven innocent.

I've never been so angry with or afraid of a government.

Labour out. ASAP.

rob, Bristol,

Whereas if you shoot an innocent Brazilian six times in the head, in cold blood, for no reason other than he 'looks suspicious', you get a pat on the head.

Interestingly, they haven't put forward as one reason for having in-store jails "so that people who haven't done anything can be quickly released without having to go to the nick".

Frank Upton, Solihull,

Will illegal immigrants and those who escape profiling get stiffer penalties for crimes because they do not become profiled? Will anybody know they exist to do anything to them? When will we be getting our career chips installed? All these and more valid question will not be answered just as soon as we've chained your leg to the safety walkway so can't run in front of a politicians car after they've taken you, the general populous, off the road.

Since when did politicians get to decide on how low the bar is set for the public freedom? And why the -long expletive- do we as a voting democracy not seem to be willing to do anything to stop them! Is civil war around the corner as the downtrodden feel they can do nothing else? It's a discussion a housemate and I had three years ago and, as the old future ambles gamely into the past, I can honestly say I think there is a possibility come 2040. Unless of course we are all mandatorily taking emotion suppressing drugs.

Alistair Kipling, Birmingham,

When will the market place stocks be erected. Dig out the village pond to make way for the ducking stool. Any sign of those gallows for the sheep stealers?
We will soon have to gain permission to leave our houses.

Anthony B, Wretton, UK

well all in favour say i!!! oh not in favour some of you? well something to hide then? todays shoplifter is probably stealing for drug money. the same ones who probably break into houses, rob people in the street. all the time leaving dna of somesort. if there is nothing at the scene to compare it to they will never be caught. on the other hand if they have a reference! if you have nothing to hide then why worry. oh all of you bleating big brother. speed in your car do you? using your mobile? letting your dogs crap on the pavement. a crime is a crime. this counrty is far too soft, its about time we brought back the birch.

dave, cleethorpes, ne lincs

The government can't get the main prison system in order, now they want jails in shops?! During sale time, I can see over crowding and potential prison riots. I assume government inspectors will be up to the task of popping into M&S, Comets and Homebase, to check prisoners rights are not being abused at the back of the shop. I suggest good old fashion stocks. I am sure throwing rotten vegatables at a few hoodies would brighten up anyone's shopping trip. OOPS littering, that's DNA extracts and fours hours in M&S for me (any man's worst nightmare)

Dino, Guildford,

I'm just waiting for the day when the Government insist on installing Telescreens into all our homes... we can't be far from being able to prosecute ThoughtCrime now can we?

John, Bournemouth,

This should be taken 1 stage further. Bring back the stocks.
A day of public humiliation will do more than prison. It also creates a market for rotten fruit & eggs.

Paul, Banstead, Surrey

I agree with Jeremy from Sheffield. The reason we don't record these crimes is because the police have more important crimes to worry about. If there is a murder but the police were busy fingerprinting a shoplifter there would be outrage! And rightly so!

Julie, N Wales,

Who are the people who wish all these new measures upon us, as they themselves will be subject to them? Someone out there in a position of power must believe that intrusive scrutiny of their being will improve their life so much that everyone else must be compelled to endure the same level of scrutiny.

As the joke says, "Tony, 1984 was a warning, not an instruction manual".

John Adlington, Oswestry, UK

Speeding and not wearing a seatbelt while in a moving vehicle are dangerous and irresponsible, in a similar vein to drink-driving and using a mobile while in control of a vehicle. Dropping litter and dog "mess" are unsightly and unhygenic. They just shouldn't happen.
As for a DNA database, I might well be biased as a molecular biologist, but surely criminals would be caught quicker if potential suspects can be narrowed to a few at the click of a button. As long as those potential suspects are still regarded innocent until proven guilty by additional evidence, I personally don't see a problem.
A lot of this country's problems could be solved if people exercised more social responsibility.

Cally, Southampton, UK

Richa/rd, London: the USA was never a democracy, the term is completely mis-understood. The USA 'was' a constitutional republic to proect the people from the ravages of big government. It is only since 9/11 that they have banged on about democracy, as an excuse to throw out portions of the constitution that does suit the present dictator Bush. The Patriot Act , Patriot Act 2 and the most dictatorial of all, HR 6166 (passed by Bush Dec 2006) have been eroding American constitional rights to the point where they are now in a vitual police state.

But back to our own country, I never thought our country would come to this but any way they swing it the government are increasing able to watch us. 4.5 million security cameras make us the most watched people on earth. Council proposals to photograph every home and sattelite tracking of vehicles for road tolls complete the picture.

Roger, Epping,

I support the use of national ID cards. It has worked in the rest of Europe for years. I have lived on the continent for 6 years now and have always had to carry an ID card. I have felt no threat to my rights from this. As a law abiding citizan I have nothing to fear. ID cards protect identity theft, credit card theft amongst others. The only people who have a fear of the government introducing these cards are those who have something to hide.

cormaquinho, Madrid, Spain

The Home Office should be relabeled the Ministry of loony ideas and a prize given for anyone who comes up with the daftest idea of the week. This one is the winner so far

Marian Oakley, Abbeyfeale, Limerick, Republic of Ireland

completely ridiculous. can you imagine being accused by a shopr assistant or store detective of doing something in their shop and them having the power to detain you for four hours? i will refuse to give custom to any shop signing up to this. i wouldn't normally consider myself much of an activist or an anarchist but i have no respect for our police force or our government. there has to be some sort of protest from normal, civilised and repsectful people before we take another turn towards tabloid press nirvana and the human rights erosion of our present day society. i really think that these people have completely lost the plot.

andy, newcastle,

Canada here I come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Liz Flynn, Exmouth,

This is really dangerous. The 'innocent until proven guilty' concept will be out of the window, and the evidence of a crimes will be more and more DNA related. What really bothers me is how this is going to be protected, given the lamentable record of the Government on data protection. One could easily envisage a situation of criminals hacking into DNA details and placing it to be found as 'evidence' of 'who done it'. With the police mentality, once they have allocated blame, based on a suspect DNA sample, they will look no further, and our politically correct courts are unlikely to protect the innocent. However, it's clear that Labour is determined to get the whole country's DNA onto data bases- they grab every chance they can to extend its reach. You can see the logic- brings the day closer when every member of society will be under the thumb of the State.

Doug, Glasgow, UK

The UK is becoming more of a fascist state by the day. We need to fight to regain our freedom.

Michael Debham, Bedford, UK

Be a better idea to bring back the stocks!

Mike Asacret, Cambridge, Cambs

And back we are in the big brother scenario. They are watching and they want to watch more closely. I hardly think that if I were to let my dog foul the street, drop some litter, speeding or other such offenses that I would be a suspect for the profiling against a murder case. Another frivolous waste of taxpayer money.

Alistair Kipling, Birmingham,

What the......? Just another daft proposal, and a total waste of money. The sooner we get a new government the better; perhaps then some sanity will prevail.

Christine , Merthyr,

Guilty untill proven innocent!
The new British way.
You cant die if you want to, 68 year old grandmas are denied the medicines they feel work best and if your dog poos your going to be treated like a rapist.

Tom Miles, Sheffield, England

Ron Price is right to an extent - a written constitution would clarify whether the government does have the powers it garners to itself. Of course,it would be written by the government, and it would ensure that it had the powers!

More seriously, though, I do worry about the erosion of due process. There is a real sense that the government is afraid of the population, and needs to control us with cards and threats of loss of control over key aspects of our identity in order to prevent ...what? Mass civil disorder? The government clearly acknowledges that people regard the DNA database as a bad thing by using inclusion on it as part of the punishment, from which there is no appeal - once your DNA is added, it will never come off. What sort of government really thinks that giving people the presumption of innocence is a handicap to justice and civic society? We have done very well up until now.

Jeremy Wickins, Sheffield, UK

"Suspects would be held for up to four hours in a small room with a clear plastic front so they were visible to custody officers..."
Safer for all if they were visible to to the shoppers as well. Not, of course, to embarrass or humiliate them or otherwise endanger their human rights, but so that the public could recognise them, and act accordingly. Thieves might even be deterred.
Those wrongly detained must be compensated.

John F Lewis, Isle of Wight, UK

Its not enough. I say they go the whole hog n make everyone wear tracking devices to catch the hardcore offenders. People who use foul language. have bad breath, don’t hold the door open, roll their eyes, cant parallel park, slouch, don’t wear tweeds, wear headscarves or turbans, talk on the phone in the tube, listen to loud music, drive around the congestion charge. All of them
n why retail jails?
i say they rent out some land next to guantanamo n start shipping them there.

bilal qureshi, london, uk

An argument that culminates in an appeal for the rights of drug users falls at the last fence I feel.

The American political system seems to me analagous to the delinquent fifth generation of a once-great family living in the remains of the family home (the constitution). Lacking the tools to demolish the edifice, they content themselves with building ramshackle annexes that are swept away by the winds of change leaving the innovators exposed (and accountable).

Let no-one suppose that a politician of any pursuasion would sign up to the bill of rights today - witness the continuing reluctance of successive US administrations to make the actions of their forces subject to international law.

In a world of realpolitic we all owe a debt of gratitude to the Founding Fathers.

Adam, Istanbul,

Short term jails? I thought all British jails were short term!

Steve Lee, Gillingham, England

Cursorily thinking, how about recording all UK residents' DNA, and forgetting the ridiculous ID card scheme? Would it not have a great positive impact on crime detection and thereby deterrence?

Steve Price, Wokingham,

We need to chuck this government out before 1984 becomes a reality. Spy systems in our cars, DNA testing and finger printing of children, anyone would think it was a Sci Fi episode not real proposals!
Tony Blair & Gordon Brown seem to get away with things that Thatcher could only have dramed of.

Dave, Newquay,

Why not go the whole hog and stop people for, walking on the cracks in pavements, coughing in public, wearing offensive jumpers, and as for those shoes!!
On a serious note there has to be some sort of backlash to all this rubbish thats going on buy whose going to do it?

Mike, Farnborough,

It just seems to be one excuse after another so that the government can have more control over the British public. The new measures mentioned in "Modernising" Police Powers are disgusting and redolent of Orwell's 1984

JC, Manchester,

And people will STILL deny the UK has become a police state. What a basket case of a country the UK has become thanks to New Labour. Glad I'm not living there any more.

David.M, Tokyo, Japan

This is the advance of The New World order .You have been warned ... The police state is advancing at a rate of knotts. We have to halt this now before it is too late!

neil ashton, wigan, lancashire

Although I'm not going to defend the changes, I have to correct you when you say the British govt. is acting 'without your consent'. They do have our consent - we have voted for them three times in succession......and we can vote them out if we don't like them. As with America, the UK is not a true democracy: we delegate decision making to our elected government.

Your Constitution, a fine document in principle, still causes you many problems: gun control for example. I also seem to remember something called the 'Patriot Act' in the US.....and Bush's nation-wide wire tapping program (officially acknowledged in Dec 2006).

Richard, London, UK

The Home Office have forgotten to fingerpaw the dog and DNA it's poo.

John Cooke, Maidstone, Kent,

So, if you decline to have an ID Card, you will have your Passport confiscated. Your dog then drops a mess on the pavement. The Police pick you up but, without ID Card or Passport they cannot identify you. So, you are then 'held' whilst they harvest you for 'identification'.

And they say they are not setting up a Police State???

T Llewellyn Jones, Isle of Man,

What's the point in having constitution if your government rides roughshod over it?

By the way, Ron, I hope you aren't one of the Americans, who have had their phones and emails monitored by the US government in the last few years.

And I also hope you aren't an American Muslim because your neighbours might report you for suspicous behaviour if they see you praying or making "strange" chants.

In my view it is the fault of the US media that many US people have an idealised and innacurate view of their own country. A large number of people being fed a lot of biased and often inaccurate info about their country and the world. The US media is pathetic.

And in the land of the free, ask the million prisoners, some of whom have done nothing more harmful than smoke/grow marijuana, how free the US is

Kev lax, Shanghai, China

At least we ain't got Bush! Who the great US of A voted for twice.

Peter Day, Doncaster, UK

This is what happens when you don't have a national constitution, and you use the Parlimentary system of government where the HP's have the power to make and change any law they want too without your consent..

It looks like you and your goverment is becoming the George Orwell's Big Brother. Better change now or the next thing will be TV cameras in eaach room of your home and the loacal busy-body reporting everything you do to the cops.

Good luck and God Bless, your going to need it!

Ron Price, Saratoga Springs, USA

Holding facility while suspects are ID'd. What a waste of money... and with ID cards just around the corner.
What's more it's just another way of getting everyone on the 'bid brother' database.
I'm glad I left over-regulated and over-taxed Britain.

Dennis Spence, Manila, Philippines