I have a sister who lives in Bradford and travels through the Lumb Lane area to work. for many years she has been aware of this phenomenon of pimping.
This issue was raised by an asian leader Muhammed Shafiq
said police were too afraid to deal with the issue

william shepherd, zoeterwoude, netherlands

Its not fair to use "Asian" to describe these men as it is a very vague and general term, these men so should be described as Pakistani's because thats what they are.It isn't fair as it makes other "asians" look bad and causes racial hatred to asians as a whole

Kiran, London,

Asian covers 60% of the worlds population, and a myriad different cultures and races. Call the creepy men who they are, Pakistani's.

Farah, Mumbai, India

The "Asian" term throws mud at those who don't deserve it and fuels racism. The bottom line is - focus on the crime, race is irrelevant. To BNP supporters using this as as excuse to peddle their hatred - You think things are bad now, if the BNP came into power they would finish this country off.

Stuart Barlow, London,

Europe is too worried about being called racist. It's being culturally destroyed by third-world immigrants that are unwilling to assimilate. I myself am a non-white immigrant to Canada that has integrated well into this society. A country's rules should come and be followed first. Wake up Europe!

Toonces, Toronto, Canada

You better believe they will be punished for this behavior!..Asian or not! If you did this in some Countries you would be hung up and set on fire I bet! You wouldnt have time to say Racist ..Come on!

Brian, w-s, USA/NC

i don't understand how a girl dresses can in any way change her worth. you cannot judge young girls for being flattered by older interest. At an age when you are insecure and are going though puberty life is hard enough. i feel out rage when you say these girls should be blamed for going into cars with men who may exploit them. They have a system of manipulation which traps the girls before they realise what has happened to them. They are passed though different people, the men getting older and older.
you cannot blame a child for being exploited due to the way they dress or behave. This has nothing to do with how they may be treated, many of the young girls are venerable, due to a hard life. You cannot symplify it to that extent and definately not blame the children as they do not get educated about the real dangers as they should be.

jass, manchester , England

This is not a new phenomenon. Such incidents were reported to the police in, for instance, Bury, several years ago. They said their hands were tied because when they approached the perpetrators (who, in all the reported cases, were Asians) the men concerned defended themselves by claiming the police were harassing them on racial grounds. Considering the way many young girls dress and behave, and the fact that they don't have to go with these men in the first place, is it any wonder that advantage is taken of them? Underage girls should not be out late, and if they are, their parents must act, promptly. At the end of every schoolday, young Asians in smart cars wait to pick up underage white girls, who openly and, apparently willingly, get into the vehicles and are driven away. Just as much blame, indeed perhaps more, should be assigned to the girls involved, who gladly accept the gifts, alcohol and, yes, the drugs, and the sex that they know will be expected of them.

Frank Sentinella, Manchester, Lancashire

i am a pakistani from pakistan.first of all when i read this i feel a shame bcoz it is a crime,if some western men do like this in asia we cant blame whole west.some bad creatures are every where ,in all societies,in all country,in all civilization.a strict punish is their right. But to say "Asian men" is not the fair.

zealfreaker, multan, pakistan

the fact is that thousands on white middle aged men go around asian countrys having sex with asian girls who are very young even 8 years old its stupid to clump all muslims and islam into one bad event not trying to justify them but the fact thousands upon thousands of white westerners do this every year

Bilal, Feltham,

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2538090.ece
another article on this same story,it clearly state's pakistani male's and muslim.it also say's that the police knew about this 10 years ago but chose to do nothing about it due to fear of riot's by the pakistani community,so much for the post from the police man about this.saying that this is not just a pakistani problem nonce's come in all colours and from all religion's,and my main problem with this is the police inactivity.

paul, nottingham, england

i agree with Paul, i don't see the point of the title using "Asian men", as that is completely irrelevant, these are just perverted, sick individuals who are exploiting children, and just happen to be Asian.

a, glasgow,

It would seem to be rigid policy, that local newspapers play down this kind of abhorrent behaviour when it concerns the ethnic minorities. However, should any incident occur which approaches such prurient and depraved practices, involving indigenous caucasian males, then you can bet no such strictures will be applied. Please tell it like it is for any colour, race, or creed.

A Hargreaves, Pendle, Lancs

The actions of these 'men' is despicable in western morality and Islamic Law. While sex outside of marriage is forbidden in Islam (for both sexes), grooming children to exploit them for it is a heinous crime. The problem here is not Islam, it is some of the individuals who claim to follow it. As many have already stated, there are people like this in all communities. As a society we have to crack down on these crimes. Being PC doesn't help. However blaming whole communities for the crimes committed by some criminals in those communities doesn't help either. If these crimes are investigated there is no reason why the perpetrators can't be brought to justice as we have rightly seen in this case.

Paul Salahuddin Armstrong, Wolverhampton,

I interviewed this mum before the sentencing of these men as part of a book of parents stories for an organisation called CROP. The book is called STOP! She's my Daughter. It's out this month (September) priced £7.99 and available from CROP (www.crop1.org.uk). About 40% of the referrals CROP receives are from girls caught up in organised networks of Asian men. These men are NOT the only ones involved in sexual exploitation of young girls, but there are certainly networks operating. What is happening is organised, manipulative and shatters girls' and families' lives. This particular girl was once left on the hard shoulder of a motorway in the middle of the night after being drugged up and abused. What becomes clear when reading the book is the lack of knowledge, understanding and support by the authorities for girls and their families. We have grooming laws but out of 200 families CROP has worked with, only 2 prosecutions have taken place. Get the book and find out how you can help CROP

Christine, UK,

James from Kent and others of the self-righteous PC brigade commenting here are apparently not disgusted about the facts reported in news story above but rather they are apparently disgusted that people have read it and seen that the issue as reported above is very much one of Asian men deliberately targetting white children - which is what the item is about. They apparently have nothing to say on the subject of the item itself but instead try to divert attention to completely unrelated events and try to silence others who do with accusations and insinuations of racial/religious prejudice - and THAT is truly disgusting.

J Mathers, Bristol, England

i am disgusted by most of the comments here...people blame the muslims or islam for this...if two white men did that to a muslim girl would the muslims say that two christian men did this? You cannot say muslims are all over the world not from just one country and yes alot of muslims are white too.

james, kent,

I dont understand why everyone seems to be sidestepping the real issue. Who cares what you call them? The only issue is that small girls are being raped and taken advantage of and no one is doing anything about it. That kind of thing doesn't openly happen here because older respectable men and strong women will and have stopped these kind of people in their tracks. Now if this was about race, call them whatever they are, Indian, Asian, Thai whatever. Who Cares lets just call them child molesters and rapists instead of any race. THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING HAPPENING HERE IS TO STOP THESE MEN FROM RAPING YOUNG GIRLS.

antoine, Detroit ,MI, United States

Isn't this the sort of thing that the BNP were TWICE taken to court over by our Govt....who then decided that the law should be changed when they were NOT convicted...
The issue was to be the feature of a documentary called Edge of the City, but the Establishment pulled this documentary for fear 'it might cause civil unrest'....So...does the BNP get an apology for being right...

Brit Pat, luton, uk

Marco,
I think you have hit the nail on the head for all of J Mathers bluster and indignation it's fact that literally thousands of old /young british white men go to places like Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia for sex with underage boys and girls but this hardly ever gets the same sort of press / exposure as some asian blokes sleeping with two underage white girls in the UK, Christ they even have organised holidays advertised for this sort of activity, why do you think so many single men go on their own to these countries !!! What hypocrosy for J Mathers to say you should be ashamed, you have nothing to be ashamed about!

Peter , London, uk

Marco from Toronto, despite you trying to sweep the central issue of this story under the carpet with implications of white racism, the issue is very much one of Asian older men targetting white children for sexual abuse - that's what the article is about. If the racial dimension of these crimes upsets you, then you should blame the racism of these Asian paedophiles for deliberately targetting white girls for sexual abuse in the first place. And are you seriously suggesting that because child abuse goes on in Thailand, that somehow this is balanced out by these atrocious old perverts from the Asian community deliberately targetting white children for abuse? Any Asian paedophiles reading your comments will feel totally vindicated in their perverted actions - almost like their activities are "fighting oppression of western civilization" - Was that your intention sir? Whether it was or not, you should be ashamed of yourself.

J Mathers, Bristol, England

It has been common knowledge for some time that this kind of thing has been happening in towns like Bradford, Oldham, Burnley and others in the NW. The authorities are aware that it goes on but nothing is ever done for fear of being branded racist.

Paul, Oldham, England

Instead of framing this incident in terms of race, people should see this as what it is: a couple of (significantly) older men trying to sleep with teenaged girls. They aren't the first, 'Asian' or white, and won't be the last. And before white Brits start moralizing and getting all self-righteous,the readers should know that I just returned from a businesss trip in Thailand and there many, many old white guys (mostly above 50 - even older than the 2 in this case) sexually exploiting underage year old Asian girls AND boys over there. Sexual exploitation of minors is not a matter of race and it is hypocritical and irresponsible to frame it as such.

Marco, Toronto, Canada

"Although campaigners claim that hundreds of young girls are already being passed around men within the Asian community for sex, she said that attempts to raise the problem with community leaders had met with little success, with most of them being in a state of denial about it."

Claims on this board that the Asian community takes these matters very seriously do not square with the lack of action by that community as referred to above. Perhaps if the Times and other national media outlets would give more coverage to these campaigners and publicize the results of their findings more widely then it wouldn't facilitate the denial of the problem. Credit must be given to the Times for covering this story at all and the issues it raises, but can the bare minimum be seen as an adequate response to protecting children? Or does the image of the Asian community in the public consciousness take precedence over our own British children now in Orwellian EU Britain?

J Mathers, Bristol, England

Men involved such an activity is very shameful act and must be treated according law/act passed by U.K Governament.We feel guilty when a muslim is involved in such an activity. As there are very strict rules defined in Islam on this and all sexsual abuse. Shame on those person. The persons must be given punishment.

Shayaan Haider, Rawalpindi, Pakistan

I would like to the address the repeated use of the term 'asian' and consequent conclusions to which people jump to without adequate information. The term' asian' addresses a large range of people from many different ethnic groups - where the majority are completely and utterly digusted at such abuse and exploitation. The supposed class between 'Western' culture and 'traditional' culture is nothing but mere condescension and compeltely overlooks the decades which 'asians' have lived as a part of an integrated community with the utmost respect for each member of society. Although in some cultures it is common practice for women to be treated with such degradation, it is far from being the norm. Please use the sweeping generalisation of 'asian' with care as it tarnishes the name of those who possess nothing but the highest repect for all people, regardless of gender, race or background. Thank you

hardeep, london,

As a person to whom morals are important, it is extremely difficult not to hold the individuals that have been responsibly for introducing and furthering multiculturalism personally and individually responsible and complicit to every single incident like this. Furthermore, the "play to imbecility" by asserting that every one of the incidents like these should be seen individually rather than against a backdrop of norms, and thereby REFUSES TO ACCEPT SOCIAL RESEARCH METHODOLOGIES THAT HAVE BEEN APPLIED CRITICALLY TO WHITE SOCIETIES FOR DECADES. How come a researcher can listen covertly to a group of men discussing, and come to a conclusion regarding e.g. discriminatory attitudes towards women, but not to a group of asian men, and conclude their attitudes towards whites or young white girls? Every intelligent and moral individual recognises the crimes that are committed, and will act to give people back for what they are responsible for.

Jeremy Taylor, London,

Men from anywhere should be killed for raping and/or killing women and children for their perverse sexual desires. Don't want them killed? Cut off their genitalia completely, along with hormones to subdue their sexual and aggressive desires. Period. The End.

Lola, Denver,

There will obviously be people who jump to conclusions from this but im not sure where it stated that any of the men were muslim.
the point id like to raise is that alot of asians like to express that they are on a moral high ground compared to western cultures which is clearly not the case.
i think what this example should show every human is capable of good and evil.

john, london,

Why is this story being ignored by the rest of the media?

Ros, London,

This is a despicable crime and the perpetrators ought to be dealt with justly and publicly.

However, to suggest that this is a Muslim problem is pathetic and ignorant. There is no tolerance or any justification for such an act in Islam and anyone who recklessly suggests otherwise is, I would suggest, trying insight racial hatred towards Muslims.

In South East Asia one sees many examples of middle-aged white men grooming young local girls for their sexual gratification, these chaps may sound and look like me but they do not represent me or my race. To my mind these Caucasian men are no less guilty then the people reported here and the girls they affect are no less precious than the white girls in the story above.

It angers me that something like this can be allowed to happen but that it was not widely reported in the media is no surprise, the masses - MOST OF YOU LOT - are a fickle and ignorant bunch, quick to jump to conclusions about an entire religion you know nothing about

Michael Black, Hong Kong,

These two men responsible for it should be harshly punished. In fact they should have got at least 10 years in my opinion but sadly what got me hooked to it is not the article but the reaction of most British people to the above article. A big majority of them r simply insulting towards Islam and Muslims. What religion has to do with this? Also what these 2 men being muslim has to do with this incident? Its shocking. It appears there r far too many racists in Britain, i'm not accusing all but some of the comments directed strictly towards Islam, and Muslim society r simply unacceptable. I'm lucky to be living in Montreal, Canada as a Muslim Asian. Thank God i don't live in a place where people r full of hatred towards my race and religion.

Rubayed, Montreal, Canada

Awaken from your slumber UK! "Diversity" is destroying your culture and that of every Western society. These people cannot and will not ever assimilate. They despise you.
Remember all your pain and sacrifice in WWII. Was it all for nothing? Sir Winston must be weeping for the land he so loved.

Remember these magnificent words. They resonate as true today as when Shakespeare penned them,

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,—
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.

Taurus689, Atlantic City, NJ /USA

This article is hugely offensive in branding 'Asians' as one homogenous group. The offenders are all Muslim Pakistani men and this problem is evident in areas of North-West England where the 'Asian' community is largely Muslim-Pakistani.

Neil, London,

Folks, enough of bashing each other! None of us would like if our young sister or daughter were to be exploited by a paedophile, no matter which race he belongs to. This is a heinous crime and we should find most effective way to curb it. And forgive me my Asian friends, *IF* it really is the case that people of our community are targetting young girls for structural reasons, then we should wake up and deal with it instead of trying to point fingers and sidestep the problem. If we don't do that, I am afraid tomorrow it will be our young sister or daughter.

Sandip, San Francisco & London, USA & UK

they should not be branded with the name asian, but muslim which they are., since asian could be anyone from a chinese person to a indian person.

kam, slough, berkshire

As bad as these crimes are I think its even more disturbing that the propaganda machines of the BBC and police are hard at work covering them up with Goebbels-like efficiency. I am outraged at the duplicitous media, politicians and judiciary in this country and like other posters here will be taking a closer look at Nick Griffin and the BNP in the coming elections.

David Mann, Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire

I am sure these men will somehow end up being seen as the victims. After all they come from peaceful loving countries, where there is no crime against women and children. No violence against each other. NO RACISM, except different castes which can devalue a person from birth. Just turn on your TV and watch their kindness to one another, it's heartwarming.Do I believe everything on tv? no, then neither do I believe 99% of muslims are peaceful loving people, clearly the dimwits at the BBC do, along with the liberal loons in this country. The lib loons and doubtless plenty of asians will want to go unchallenged, for fear of what will be dug up. We might just reveal that those who often cry "VICTIM" are very good at creating victims.But then who wants to reveal the truth?
It would seem only the BNP and that's why they will get the votes.

bren, Oldham, Manchester

i know it is terrible to target all muslim men. However when my daughter visited indonesia with me she was continually abused, leered at and treated like rubbish by the muslim men. My blonde daughter who was 14 at the time and who was at all times modestly dressed was in tears to be treated in this way. muslim men generally look down on western women and girls. collectively they have a problem and they need to address how they treat women, especially white women.

michelle, durban, south africa

I think it is time we came down heavy on these Asians, and put them back in their place, this is our country. We should stop bowing down to their every request and let them return to their own country if they do not like our ways, after all no one asked them to come here.

rachel, Bracknell,

I'm British Sikh and I am tired of this "Asian" term that newspapers like to use when referring to specific ethnic groups.

Unfortunatley British Sikhs and British Hindu girls have been targeted and groomed by those similar ilk of Mr Hussain and Mr Naveed for the last 20 years.

These radical muslims even if they are British born are hell bent on converting girls from other ethnic and religous backgrounds.

They use various means to coax and coerce young impressionable girls, and either convert them or force these girls into prostitution.

This is not sensationalising but the honest truth with what is occuring within out multi ethnic communties across UK. It seems that not only are they targeting British Sikh and Hindu girls but now also White girls.

These people use political correctness to shield the actavities that they carry out. More has to be done by the Police and Government to defend communities across the UK against these group of people. .

Mr G Sembi, Birmingham, UK

How about all the middle aged British white Paedophiles who stalk children in Goa and Bangkok?.
Where does multiculturism stand in their case?

victor, washington, dc

It is about time we dropped the generic term Asian and reported more accurately and truthfully without fear of being called a racist, if the perpetrator of a crime is of Pakistani origin say so, do not include by inference all Indians and Chinese etc. We should all vote BNP and this problem will be solved, and we could go on being English not white

John Taylor, Liverpool,

I dont think I have ever seen so many comments on a news story.

Sadly Labours love affair with pandering to ethnic minorities rights over everbody else has led to this situation. Until we have a half decent political oposition in the U.K. the views and concerns of the majority will be ignored.

Adrian, Aldershot, U.K.

I don't remember seeing this many comments criticizing the Roman Catholic child sexual abuse cases, when they were reported here. I wonder if these same people here would accuse every single white Catholic of being pedophiles?

Abdul Ali, Tehran, Iran

This story has been running in the Lancashire Evening Telegraph for years. There have been plenty of first hand accounts from white girls in the Blackburn and Darwen borough about Asian men targetting them. Of course, it was swept under the carpet for years. Similarly, the putting up of Kilafah stickers in most lamposts in the borough during the early 90's was not even reported.

Southerners who live in an idealistic multi-cultural smokescreen would be shocked if they came up to Blackburn and experienced the gaping gaps between white and Asian cultures up here.

Si McDermott, Blackburn, Lancashire

The acts of the two men are despicable and they deserve serious punishment. I do not think race should come into the frame.

However I think the root of the problem lies in the title of this news article - that is why it has generated so much debate.

I would be very keen to know the nationality of the two men. If they happen to be British why did the reporters not use the word British instead of Asian? Is rape and murder the sole prerogative of white British?

Refusal to acknowledge that people from the subcontinent who were born and raised in Britain are actually British rather than being branded Asian solely based on the colour of their skin, is not acceptable. It leads to divisiveness and other problems due to a perennial identity crisis. It is one of the primary reasons why integration is not seen in British society.

Integration should be the responsibility of every community: Whites, Asians, Blacks failing which, we would continue to breed such spurious elements within society

SId, Canterbury,

The UK is reaping the fruits of what it so readily sowed and in so many cases is still sowing - a belief in a multicultural society, liberal immigration policies, and a belief that differnces amongst people from different cultures are only a matter of skin colour. Racism is always wrong, but in order to be properly tackled the root causes of racism must be fully understood and not brushed under the carpet. A prime trigger of racism is precisely 'culural differences' that amount to crimnal offences in western societies and yet are being quietly ignored in the name of political correctness - incest, forced marraiges, female subjugation. The UK and other countries need to vigorously enforce existing laws even if the perceived rights of ethnic minorities are perceived to be trampled upon. If these etnic minorities do not like this, then they are free to leave. Arranged marraiges in particular should be criminalised. They are one of the biggest barriers to integration

Mark, Ibrag, Malta

It is very disturbing that A Desai seeks to shift the blame onto the victims, and society as a whole, rather than acknowledge the fact that this is entirely the fault of racist paedophiles. As has been pointed out already there are many "Asian" countries with entirely different cultures and it is disingenious to lump them all together as he does - this is simply a tactic to hide a particular section of offending males within the larger, disparate group. Regardless of the background culture of the offenders neither paedophilia nor racism is acceptable in Britain. You do not get rid of a problem by pretending it's not there so the issue must be identified, brought into the public domain and dealt with, whatever section of the community is responsible. If this is identified as a cultural issue then that culture will have to change to fit in with the laws of this country.

JW, Horsham, West Sussex

Wake up and smell the coffee, this place is going to the dogs.

jay, Southampton, UK

1st of all the article doesn't say the girls were raped & I would like to know what their ages were at the time of the offences, as it seems it was consensual sexual relations but with girls under 16. If the girls were almost nearly 16 for example, older/younger men can still by law be convicted for child abuse offences. Would the reactions be the same if the men had been white 17/18 year olds taking advantage of these same girls ? I don't think so , so Cryer's comments are irresponsible. This is not an ASIAN , MUSLIM , or E.LANCASHIRE PROBLEM . It's a problem of MALES taking advantage -which is not limited to ASIA , PAKISTANI'S ,etc . Our highly sexualised society influenced by the mass media does not help either. SO PLEASE DON'T SAY THIS IS A PROBLEM OF RACE OR RELIGION !!! (This only gives more fodder to all the racists to support the BNP ! ) . & LASTLY I'm SHOCKED by all the racist comments in this section !! People please get an education & wake up ...!

Sarah Williams, London,

Woah, why are the comments full of sweeping generalisations? Hasn't decades of globalisation taught anyone a thing about individuality?

Howard, Manchester,

This problem isnt religion specific, i know some sikh men are like that too, although i know muslim men are probably the worst because they tend to be more traditional. Asian men do generally think low of western women, they think they have loose morals and to be fair they may be correct in some instances. Alot of my freinds get drunk and have 1 night stands! As a female muslim i I know my limits. Not all women are like that, i have studious intelligent white freinds who never do that. Its a question of morals.
Also not all asian men groom white girls exclusively. they go for asian girls but asian/muslim girls are not as 'easy' to get due to their religous and cultural upbringing. Its a big no no!. I think another important point to make is that sex before marriage is forbidden in islam both for women AND MEN. So these men are committing a grave sin. I've heard that some of these men convince themselves its a lesser sin because the girl isnt a muslim, but its still A BIG SIN!.

Shazia Akhtar, Gloucester, UK

Zulfqar Hussain, Qaiser Naveed - sounds Muslim to me but of course they are "Asian" in the strict sense.

It is a pity that "Asians" such as Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and Christians, are not protesting being besmirched in this fashion.

DaveP, Beverley, UK

There are some cultures that do not have an idea of child abuse or indeed of domestic violence.Apparently this includes the UK nowadays.The protection of a child has been put well behind the "rights" of men to abuse them.The sentence is an insult.Are these men now on the sex offenders register? They should be.There should be an inquiry into police behaviour.Were they hamstrung by the law? Or were they hamstrung by the sort of PCness that gets children killed.

frances , Tunbridge Wells, Kent

I know loads of filipino Asians, all Catholic, one of the largest catholic countries in the world, where divorce is still not possible due to it's influence. How can they be grouped in this category that this author describes?
I make jokes with them, because Manila had an water shortages during our floods that filipinos are responsible for our floods, because this is the kind of ludicrous connections that lumping in all Asians makes.

Ian Hardie, Darlington, UK

Over this year, I read several articles of white peadophiles who raped children here in Europe and in the US, and also in third-world countries. Do you want me to refresh your memory? And no one comments about how there is a problem with the white community. I only heard of one case involving two Asians... and suddenly there is an "Asian" problem.

As an "Asian", it disgusts me when I hear that any British child - white, brown or black - is a victim of rape. Why? Because I am British. And yes, the BNP is absolutely wrong, and so is the troll that keeps on making up stories, about how her daughter (or friend's daughter) was raped by Asians.

Paedophiles, and those who are cover for them, should be locked PERIOD. And anyone who links race, religion with such crimes is RACIST.

Julius, London,

We need to shake off the baggage of the Nazi Holocaust before it's too late, and start asking Pakistanis and Arabs to leave our shores as soon as possible lest they continue to wreak this awful destruction upon our society.

I am afraid we will be far too cowardly.

M, London, UK

To all those Hindus and Sikhs crowing about this - I knew plenty of your co-religionists at university who wanted to have "fun" white girls (with no intention of it leading anywhere) before mummy and daddy fixed them up with a nice girl from their own community.

Also, in the incident the wonderful BNP (for whom "record" numbers vote yet it makes hardly any difference in the polls) go on about there were also non-asian men involved but they conveniently ignore this.

None of the above excuses what these criminals do.

Adnan, Reading,

Gabriel- I don't know about Pakistani's, but it is not true that Indian ( Hindu) men hold Indian women in high esteem and look down on White women. Dowry system, female infanticide etc. are proof to the contrary. However rhis is a very regional thing in India. On the plus side, for Hindu's the most powerful of the God's is a SHE.

Grooming is a sickness which pervades all societies.

Kara Swart, London, UK

Firstly, I agree with many of the other comments made here that we should not use the word Asian lumping many diverse communities together and 'tarring' all with the same brush. Two adult men committed a crime and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law without reference to their ethnic background.

There are, however, problems with cultures with sexually liberated women and those where this is not the case living side by side. Living in east London and with parents living in the Middle East I have experienced the negative stereotyping of white women by those out with this community. Such young men do not follow young Muslim women through the local park hitting their bottoms with sticks so why do it to a young white woman?

I remain unconvinced, however, that attitudes will change as I do not see how the acceptance of the sexual liberation of some woman can sit comfortably beside the belief in strict moral codes for others

Leanne, London,

Why is it ok that white men can sleep with asian women and not the other way round? Sleeping with underage children is illegal, irrespective of the race or nationality or religion. Why can't we view this problem in this manner? Frankly I am disgusted by the drunk white men abusing the local women in other parts of the world.

Peter Oost, Rotterdam,

"Despite being told explicitly by police and social services that both girls were under-age and should be returned to care, the men picked up one girl from a children’s home in Blackburn and then drove on to collect her friend who was living in temporary foster care in North Wales. " - So the Police knew there was a problem, why dis they not act correctly first time around?

Rob, Brum, UK

It is tragic. But where were the parents?

Still do not understand how race comes into this - all of you BNP supporters are aware that your lovely community imports them (often to order) from Portugal and East Europe?

It is tragic and our anger should be directed not on racial issues but on this horrible subject - we must protect ALL our children and our community.

Query, London,

Please please can you not refer to these individuals as Asian men - they are muslim men!

A Singh, UK,

First of all people of this country need to know that these are Pakistani people either born here or came from Pakistan. Stop using 'Asian' word. These pakistanis will go white girls because they are easily available. Pakistani muslims have no moral values. Everybody knows about it. It will happen more and more because the immigration and justice system in the country is too lenient. Nothing can be done about this.

Joy D'Silva, London, UK

Organised paedophile rings exist all around the world. All members of such rings should go be accepted in society. It is not reliant on where you are from, eg. school teachers, priests, care workers, from all around the world and members of all cultures.

The comments here indicate just how quickly people want to blame things on a particular race. Most people are racist at heart.

viv, london,

Pardon me if i'm wrong, I'm just an Asian living in Montreal, Canada. In my opinion the issue here should be under age girls being sexually abused by men, which is clearly wrong and in this case it happens to be two "Asians". Ask yourself and answer very honestly , does this mean all or most "Asians" are like these two people? Don't bring religion in these. Please dont belittle Islam in this issue. Beside why some of you r talking about deporting these two men from UK? Did the article say anything about them not being from UK, only because they r termed as "Asian" doesnt mean u can assume they r immigrant and they should be deported. They could very well be British citizen. Coming to the point that i wanted to make, I've heard enough stories of old men abusing not only white girls but targetting very young girls with in the family and these people should be punished harshly. Please condemn the crime, not their race or religion, because its not motivated by their race or religion. Thx.

Rubayed, Montreal, Quebec

"Zulfqar Hussain, 46, and Qaiser Naveed, 32"

Those two criminals have Arabic names, therefore, majority of people who have posted their comments have assumed that they are 'Muslims'?

'Richard Dawkins' sounds like Christian name, can we also assume that he is a Christian?

I sure as hell am not going to send my kids to the UK for their education.

Heidibellinberg, Zurich, Switzerland

I dont think its the whole asian community acting like this. BUT Is their a reason why the Indians are targating "white girls". They dont do black girls. Is it because they have even less respect for black girls. Are they racist ??????? I am aware that in their society the cast system discriminates and ironically the the lower casts are darker. Even the Bollywood stars (their ideal) are lighter. Ironically the Indians are the are the first to play the race card and shout discrimination. Shame on the authorities for not acting irrespective of the race of the victom and irrespective of the race to the perpetuator.

AKAT, London, IK

i find it amazing to interpret this news item in racial , ethnic or religious perspective.

Grooming of young girls for sex is a heinous reprehensible crime whether it is done by White or Asian.
we are living in age when there is so much promiscuity and drug culture that under age sex has become a common ocurance and not confined to one a particular culture. there have been reports of girls as young as 11 and 12 giving birth to babies and it is accepted by society.
Recently there was news of award-winning actor Chris Langham who was alleged to have 'groomed a14 year girl for systematic sexual abuse over three years after befriending her at a West End musical.

There was another news not long ago when a man ( White) raped and strangulated his 3 yeaar old niece in her bedroom when he returned after a drink with his brother.
The society is obsesssed with pornography sex ,paedophilia and drug.
It has nothing to do with any particular culture, race or religion.

Dr Imteyaz Ahmed Khan, wakefield, West yorkshire

Some commentators have said this is regarded by the men as a victory for Islam. WHat has this got to do with Islam? They happen to be Muslim men. It is a cultural problem. Like so-called 'honour killings'. I am a Mulim of Pakistani origin and these isolated, I must emphasis the word isolated, suckens me.

This bring out the worst in people by some of the comments I have seen.

Tizer, London,

as many comments refer to the fact that this happens in 'their towns' by not only asain (& yes this includes sikh & hindu indians not just pakistanis..) but also white & afro-carribeans, shows that it is a social problem which needs to be tackled. not an ethnic one...
the prime example which comes to mind is that of the sikh indian who raped & murdered a british girl & fled to india where he is now under arrest... the names evade me so my apologies...
& finally the people who indulge in this crime usually dont go to friday prayer at the mosque or the church on sunday or the temple... so lets not make this a religion battering when quite clearly these people are yobs who are clearly not religious...
please use your minds before jumping on the 'islamaphobic' bandwagon... & those indians who think it doesn't happen in their communities please wake up, this denial of lumping everything on your eastern neighbours is weearing thin..

Mohammed Ali, Oxford,

I note the above comments about labelling these criminals as being 'Pakistani' or 'Islamic'. However, please note that just as you would not like to be associated with such people, neither would other Pakistanis or Islamic people.

I guess they were probably from mirpur, not all of the UK Pakistanis are from Mirpur, so why should the rest of the Pakistanis be labelled because of them. Secondly they were Asian, not Arab or Indonesian, so you cant label them Islamic either, as that way all Muslims would be labelled. There is also a significant difference between these groupings!!

Where do we stop?? This is a heinous crime, one that we should unite against and one that deserves a harsh punishment. Arguing about what to label them will not get us anywhere.

Imran, Manchester, England

I have heard a number of stories, both from individuals and in local media outlets, concerning this kind of activity. They all appear to centre on Bradford and the surrounding area. They all focus on Asian males preying on young (sub 16 year old) white females and they all feature the use of drugs and alcohol. In one related incident it was mentioned that these "gentlemen" would hang around outside secondary schools waiting for their prey.

If this is all well known and reported, in local media at least, then why have the authorities not done anything to ensure the safety of these children?

Mike, Epworth, UK

Children must be protected from paedophiles.Paedophiles often seduce cajole and bully the vulnerable into compliance.These men should have received a much longer sentence and be on the sex offenders register. Oh and serious consideration should be given to deporting anyone not born here who behaves with such criminality.Why don't we have resident aliens as they do in the States.I had a green card
when I was young because of my parents work. I knew that if I was caught at a party where someone else was smoking dope I and all my family could be chucked out.Why don't we have such a system where one has to wait for and earn citizenship.These men clearly thought female children not worthy of protection.Perhaps their own children should be taken into care because of the dangers they pose.

frances, Tunbridge Wells, United Kingdom

It is not just a case of 2 men being charged. 13 men were charged with this offence recently in Oldham. You would not think there was any link to the muslim community by reading the Oldham Chronicle. Like the BBC they are worried about the consequences of reporting it. When it was reported that Asain males commit 66% of race attacks and are 9% of local population, a fact that was quoted from the cheif of police himself. Their offices were promptly firebombed by disgruntled Asain youths. Not one single Community leader condemned this without a caveat. Get used to it your safety is secondary to the issues of race where Pakistani/bangladeshi muslims are concerned as to report or do anything about it you have to admit to a problem. Noone in authority is this brave. God help the English because noone in England is.

Tommy Ward, Dublin, Ireland

I live in OLDHAM where the Pakistani Muslims are treated much better by the police than the indigenous white population. They have almost got permission to flout the law with impunity .
And yes the Pakistani men are always hitting on vulnerable young white girls . I often have to accompany my two daughters if they go shopping for cloths in the town centre ,for fear of them being ambushed by the low life thugs that hang around waiting . Oldham is a time bomb waiting to explode , the 2001 riots were just the beginning.

Andrew Swindells , Oldham, lancashire

There was a documentary on this subject some years ago but because of 'multiculturism' no one dares act because it would be racist, and we have been told for decades how 'good' Asians are, how good their family lives are. Only now more truth is coming out; honour killings, fgm, dowery killings, they are no better or worse than any other group of people. Once their mind-set shifts into the 20th century (that's right - to the 20th first) they will be far more comfortable in our shared country.

Peggy W, Blyth, England

I'm a white girl in Britain. I can't believe some people don't know that this goes on in England. Of course it does I've seen it myself many times over and over again. Some of the reactions here could be labelled funny if it wasn't such a horrific subject - young children being singled out and raped because of the colour of their skin. Open your eyes Sunny from PA USA, not all asians are Islamic, and calling the UK media and politicans ignorant for discussing these topics (only discussing at this point notice!) is downright STUPID. I'm glad we are (finally) openly discussing this serious problem.

louise, leicester, uK

I am not surprised to see record numbers of people voting for the BNP when Pakistani beasts are targeting innocent young white girls. These Muslim men have absolutely no morals, yet, ironically, they see the 'West' as having none.

The leniency in the sentencing is an absolute joke.

Sandeep Singh Kooner, Leicester, UK

Ehhh...46 and 32 is" young men".....????
These perverts will be jailed in California by now and standing a longer sentence.

By the way Asia is a big chunk of land and is a diservice to call all Asian men sexual offenders!

G Guerra, Cerritos,California, USA

"Asians cannot go to Asian girls because it would be a terrible breach of the honour of the community and their family to have sex with an Asian girl before marriage."

But it's OK to seek sex from women outside their culture? Any culture that looks on women of a different background in that respect is shamefully racist and has no place in a modern society. If these people want to live by their own 'moral codes' then maybe they should think about returning home....for good.

Viv, London, England

Why not refer to the white girls as "catholic" or "protestant" or "non-religious" European girls to give balance? If these were (as seems apparent) Pakistani men, or British Pakistani men, then say so. Anyone who has had experience of these towns (Burnley, Blackburn etc) knows exactly what is going on there. These were not young teenage men caught up in the moment, they were adult men who knew exactly what they were doing. Personally, I would expel any Pakistani (or other nationality) who committed a crime here. Much as Brits abroad are routinely deported from host countries if they commit crimes there. These towns are becoming Pakistani ghettos where indiginous whites, especially women, live in constant fear and unease. Take strong action now or pay the price in the longer-term.

John Smith , manchester, UK

Too bad western nations have become so irresponsible and lost their souls. They will pay and pay. When your not even concerned about protecting your children, there's nothing left to say.

Bobby, Long Beach, California

We should be fair, and realize that the two men referenced as an example were Pakistanis, but this does not mean that the problem is only found in this group. I suspect that older men of every race groom younger women, and would be willing to abuse them in this way. The problem is not an Asian or Caucasian or Black problem.. it is the problem of a society that encourages the strong to prey on the weak, whether male or female. Until we consider the root causes of this behaviour, we shall make no progress in stopping it. I know everyone is indignant and shocked about the behaviour reported in this article, and about the foolish way in which it failed to contextualize this behaviour. Please, let' s leave politics aside, and ask the deeper question - what does this say about how society works, whether in Britain, Europe, the USA, Asia, Australia etc. Why do people feel they can abuse others this way - and what can we do to stop this?

Nick, London, UK

The bottom line is that these were two sick individuals without an islamic bone in their body. I am a moderate muslim and i do feel that the grooming of white women by asian men is a major problem. I have seen it happening.

There is nothing racist about the police acting on Pakistanis who choose to flout the law. If the Police make their presence felt then they will have an impact.

The BNP did raise the issue of grooming by asian men however they made no mention of the grooming of young children by elderly white men on an organised and networked level throughout the UK.

There are a lot of problems within the Pakistani muslim community and they do need to be addressed from within.
Don't lay the blame with the Police.

MB, Birmingham,

Where are the Europeans' cries when other Europeans like Gary Glitter and his ilk are found abusing children in Thailand, Zimbabwe etc? All Europeans prey on little brown/black children for sex. Evil, all of them.

Get a grip; these are two maladjusted paedophiles, their religion and skin colour have nothing to do with their crimes. White Europeans are just using this as a justification for their ignorant prejudices.

Where was Mrs Cryer when her daughter was out and about with these men? Surely parenting comes into it when your underage child is cavorting with 40 year old men.

Carys Mathews, Chester, uk

Why don't you become a bit more culturally aware and stop using the term "Asian" when not referring to the continent of Asia. "Asian Subcontinent" isn't much more helpful containing at least, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Tibet, Bhutan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Maldives. Why do you insist of lumping them altogether! The sun has set on the empire! Wake up!

They are Pakistani! Pakistani Muslim from of North England and a specific group within that community.

I just wish everyone would stop this nonsense that I have heard for decades.

Kiran, London,

These guys are PAKISTANIS!!! Bradford, Huddersfield, Keighly, Preston et al are all PAKISTANI areas!!

Why do the media and the newspapers ALWAYS use the term 'Asian'??? INDIANS (ie, HINDUS and SIKHS) do NOT, I stress: DO NOT, do this kind of thing!!!

when was the last time you heard these stories coming from predominantly indian areas like Leicester or Wolves? Yeah, exactly - none.

Indians are probably the best immigrants to have ever touched these shores - we're one of the richest communities, most law abiding, least likely to go to jail and most likely to go to university. The ONS stats back this up!!

So, why oh WHY are we always tarnished with the 'Asian' tag which lumps us in the same category as Muslim Pakistanis and Bangladeshis??

As an 'Asian' (booo!!) I humbly apologise to all the white families of the north-west for the actions of our 'fellow' community!!

Tarun Yadav, Essex, UK

Reporting this extremely serious statutory rape plus the fact the girls were plied with booze and drugs to loosen them up does really warrant disguising the rapists as coming somewhere in Asia.

If there are consequences to the clash of gang-bang cultures let's work on that problem. Common law trumps sharia law in Canada, and I would expect that all things being equal that is also the case in Mother England.

If a person does shameful things he is not given any multi-cultural slack in the courtroom. If a gentleman wishes to explore his sexuality in an acceptable way he had better make sure the partner is of an appropriate age, and that any exploration occurred as a result of charming conversation -- not spiked drinks. Is that too much to ask for. Also more than one male for each female doesn't look good -- if you later must explain your sexual encounter to a rape crisis team.

Terry, montreal, canada

Everybody on this fantastic island should try and be more tolerant to others and perhaps learn about and engage with other cultures and faiths, instead of sitting on the fence and shouting being narrow minded. If you honesty think that the BNP are correct then Europe will be heading back towards the early 1930's, instead of moving forward positively into this new century. I'm no lefty, but I do feel that it is time to take a step back and examine the path that we are all pursuing.

Joe, Chelmsford, Essex

Well done to the Times for properly reporting this case, unlike the BBC and liberal media who have tried to hide the story.

Unfortunately, this problem will continue since the authorities are terrified of the Muslim reaction. Sadly, I know from my travels that this issue is all too common in the middle east and islamic countries, where such practices are justified by some clerics. The late Ayatollah Khomenei, for example, encouraged in his Tahrirolvasyleh the practice of 'thighing' with young girls as a means for men to release sexual tension. Until the issue can properly be discussed, I fear it will continue.

Georges C, Oxford, UK

the issues raised by this case are disturbing and should be commented on.if any group of individuals are grooming children for sex or commiting rape,then it is a criminal act and the authorities or police should be targeting these people as a paedophile ring,whilst also investigating any religious and racial influence to the crime.
if any group solely targets another group to abuse because they are a different race then it is a racial crime,similiarly with regards to religion.the stats posted earlier suggest a disproportionate rate of gang rapes commited by ethnic minorities,and this should be investigated,without fear of offence,by identifying these people as criminal individuals,whatever particular country or culture. if a persons nationality or religion is highlighted to isolate a specific problem within a community that needs to be addressed,this should not be seen as an attack on that community,as every nationality has its criminal element which brings shame on the majority

js, london, england

A. Desai blames British "society" for the appallingly disgusting and criminally perverted acts of Asian men. This is simply more denial of some Asian actions, blaming the rest of the world for all their own ills. Mr. Campbell of Derry appears to consider that the BNP should instead concentrate on the behaviour of Europeans in third world countries. But, Mr. Campbell, you see, we ALREADY know about that! What we are now having a look at is how some Asian men treat white girls! Are you both for or against this behaviour? I suggest you need to seriously consider your attitudes.

Eamonn, Dublin, Ireland

just reflect on this article, the terms and emotive labels used and the language used in all these statements made on the page. one is stereotyping hindus and sikhs, the other malay man doing it to pakistanis, one is after muslims, the only sensible comment by katie needs serious consideration.
but, what is it in particular about asian men that this is an asian problem? are white middle class, upper class and lower class men not child abusers? who was this langham character recently? was he asian? let us get statistics, over 90% of child abuse is done by own family, in white homes. i am sure simialr things happen in black and other communites but this news item, written by bannerman and ford itself, using such stereotypical langauage itself is condemnable and gutter journalism.
were they asian? or were they british? which part of asia do they live when they live in east lancashire? are we not going to begin to accept people of different ethnic backgrounds as british ever?

m akmal, ipswich, uk

Even more disturbing than the degenerates who do this is the authorities unwillingness to act. This is just a token arrest in what is a massive problem. From what I understand, the police try to turn a bline eye to this, probably for fear of arresting those involved and sparking a riot. This shows how low politically correct britain has sunk.

Chris, London,

The refusal of the police to act on this issue before now is an utter disgrace, and the refusal of the BBC to report the conviction - after accusing the BNP of racist fantasy for reporting it two years ago - is equally shocking. The 'token' sentences for what is statutory rape of child are derisory. What would have happened if it had been "White" males targeting "Asian" girls? (And yes I take the point that the felons were Pakistani MUSLIMS - not Sikhs, Hindus). Our Establishment stinks. There is not a cigarette paper of difference between the Goverment and and "her Majesty's Opposition" on race and immigration. While both are happy to bomb and shoot thousands of innocent Muslims in their own countries, at the same time they are hell bent on importing any number of Muslims here to colonise the country they were elected to protect. We will soon be as extinct as the Ancient Egytptians or Ancient Greeks, having been destroyed by our own rulers.

Clive , Stroud,

I spoke to an Asian taxi driver today about this problem with Asian men raping our little girls, he seemed to find that whole subject amusing he just sat there laughing.
and in answer to the person who says that there are white girls who are as moral as Asian girls obviously does not know many Asian girls they are A moral the Muslims that I know of, bed hop.

jillian , Hudderfield, West Yorkshire

I would like to point out that when you say asian you are including respectable and morally responsible ehnic minorities which include sikhs, hindus etc, who would never be involved in such activities. It is a known fact in other asian ethnic minorities that it is the muslims who deliberately target vulnerable young girls, its not grooming of just white girls ,but all girls accept muslim girls. It is fact that many girls from the sikh and hindu communities have been targeted in the same way and ended up in brothels in Pakistan, and many have testified.

harry, sydney , australia

you Brits go through loops not to say the "I" word or the "M" word--and cal these guys simply "Asia" and these girls as "white" that is in itself a racist statement: Unless these men are from Malaysia or Indonesia, they too are most likely ":white"--Indians and Pakistanis and Banglasdeshis are "white," i.e., Caucasian, desptie the fact that they are "darker" than the "white" Brits. You never look into the disdain that "M" men, according to the traditions of "I," have for "infidel" females--and that a "white" slave (in Arabic "Mameluk") commands a higher price than a "black" slave (in Arabic "Abd")

bob, potomac, md usa

Surprise surprise, the BNP was right all along. Takes guts to speak out doesn't it? I'll think seriously about who I'll be voting for next election. Guts should be rewarded.

Tony, Bilbao, Spain

Zub, who mentioned religion in the article? You are assuming the inference was Muslim perpetrators, but ASIAN was the description.

George, Edinburgh, Scotland

These men are evil and all their defence is evil too, whether from Muslims, Asians or Liberal British. There is no room for committing atrocities against these or any other young girls in any culture or civilised religion. These evil men should serve long sentences as 5 years is an insult to our tolerant society - remembering if they want sex, they can buy that in any city with consenting adults. It is also worth noting they are cheating on their spouses and spreading infections and misery to innocent. May these men be damned.

Ahmed, Watford,

This is sick. The men should be dealth with harshly in court and in jail! I don't care who they are or where they are from. These are sick men and if this is helping on a wider scale it should be dealt with urgency and the men doing this placed on the sex register in addition to being named and shamed. As a note: A lot of points focus on the faith of these animals or their ethnic origin (asian). The hindu/sikhs do not wish to be associated with the term Asian. Others wish to discredit Islam and sterotype. Please don't make political weight from this!! To make it these sick men have NOT used Islam as a reason to do this or justify their actions NOR can they. They are just sick sick men. PS why do Western/Europeans men caught in child porn rings etc etc are NOT referred to as Christian? I doubt that these men practice Christianity as these sicko's practice Islam. In my law books chop their manhoods! PS - I am muslim and from Pakistan (not that it matters)

A.L., Luton, UK

If there is one thing that is going to cause an almighty conflict between white people and the Pakistani's it is the exploitation of the white girls and young women by the Pakistani's . There seems to be a substantial number of Pakistani's quite happy to feed hard drugs to young mothers in Woking, Surrey in order to firstly get them hooked and then fully exploit them in all possible ways. It is unfortunate that the police do nothing about this and it continues unabated as the taxi drivers peddle the drugs around and ferry the dealers around Woking. Don't get me wrong, there are also a large number of very good law abiding Pakistani's but that does not excuse the bad ones who need routing out.

Steve Drummond, Woking, Surrey

We have had the same problems here in australia with young men of middle eastern origin. There is no doubt it is a cultural problem,ask any woman who has travelled alone in a middle eastern or muslim country.

glenn, perth, australia

Recent investigative reports have reported this problem of young girls targeted as sex slaves for other cultures, primarily the asian one. These children are used and abused and thrown away - a plethera of sexual life threatening diseases mixed with drug abuse and physical abuse robs them of everything all of us hold dear about ourselves.

It's past time for western countries to address this serious problem - we're supposed to know better and do better. Obviously we aren't.

This also highlights the problem our societies aren't facing regarding immigration - immigrants must be willing to accept that was perhaps acceptable in their former homes is not in their new homes - some of their cultural traditions simply do not carry into their new chosen homelands. If they prefer their old ways then they can return from where they came from. Clear informative civics courses must be a mandatory for each new immigrant.

Katy, New York,, USA

I have had many 'Asian' friends for over 20 years and this is nothing new. The stench of hypocrisy is overwhelming, notably with the Muslims who often consider white girls as little better than whores or meat. At the same time paying lip service to community values whilst being some of the biggest 'mongers' Just check out the night clubs in Dubai any night of the week! (Arranged marriages are held up as a success given the low or negligible Divorce rate: In reality millions stick with it and lead separate lives to a/ keep face in the community b/ protect kids or c/ their money.) If this was white men grooming Asian girls it would be all over the papers and the Police would act!

Another victim of TRUTH on the alter of political correctness.

There are so many others!

Paul Fox, Gloucester, UK

Ten years ago whilst working as a community nurse, I was informed by a Pakistani Muslim patient that he wanted his Christmas present from me which was sex. I asked him what he was talking about and he continued to tell me that all Muslim men know that white nurses should be providing this service at Christmastime. He then tried to block the doorway to prevent me from leaving at which point I told him that I was completely insulted by his attitude towards me, my race, my religion and my job. From then on I refused to visit this man at home (he was mentally stable) as I felt at risk.
Having lived overseas in South East Asia, I have to agree that this has not been the attitude from South-East Asians. However, having also lived in the Middle-East as a married woman with children (not skimpily dressed) my views of Muslim men in general have been reinforced by their lack of respect towards non-muslim women.

C Gould, UK,

Anne Chohan

You are correct. The article does not mention "Muslim" once. That's the point many people are making; it's like many politicians and commentators, never referring to the blindingly-obvious "elephant in the living room".

However, the names of the two convicted men, Zulfqar Hussain and Qaiser Naveed, are as culturally Pakistani Muslim as "Bernadette O'Keefe" is culturally Irish Catholic.

Paul Middleton, Yorkshire,

I notice this wasn't reported by the BBC, they seem to be very selective in what they keep us up to date on.

peter reddington, leeds, west yorks

It's a disghusting crime and those guilty should be punished severly but the comments im reading in response to this article seem to be blaming a whole religion or ethnicity based on the acts of a few, it's a shame. In response to Ganesh comments about all evil's tend to be muslims , last time I checked it was the Americans (Christians and Jews) who are currently responsible for most wars and deaths at the moment, but as the people being killed are muslims and non-whites I guess it doesnt matter.

Deen, London,

Just make sure that their fellow inmate know what they are in jail for and I am sure that justice will prevail.

Bill, Montreal, Canada

It really is a pity that the article in question did not specify "Muslim" instead of "Asian". It appears to me that a large body of Muslims are either in denial about the origins and teaching of their faith, or else they are following Muslim doctrine that it is quite in order to lie to protect the faith.
Why is it that we very rarely see or hear outrage voiced by Muslims about evil atrocities committed in their name - whether it be mass killing of innocent women, children and man, or raping young girls. When Christians commit rape or murder, other Christians protest strongly. I would have more respect for Muslims if they followed suit and, instead of finding excuses and/or saying westerners are also evil, they protested loudly and demonstrated how offended they are by these vile acts.

Eamonn Gavin, Dublin, Ireland

Yet again the UK media/politicians insist on brushing all Asians with the same wide brush. Is it ignorance of the facts or fear of identifying followers of the "Religion of Peace" ?

Sunny, Allentown , PA, USA

at one time we mixed together and had respect for each other western & asian but since the human rights came into force and all the undesirables flooding the country with the do gooders help we are now living in a very terrifing and unsafe place ,my kids and there friends do not feel safe getting in taxis anymore they have become targets but when anyone refuses they are branded racist you cant win when you are trying to feel safe ,it seems racism is more powerful than safety .

mary, preston, lancs

Apart from the paedophilia aspect and issue of race, isn't this more about the lack of respect for women from men of a different culture and lack of respect of white british females for themselves? The more liberal society our society becomes the more damage we do to it....

chris, st austell, uk

To Irfan in Lahore, your comment shows absolutely no understanding of the article or what is legal in the UK. The men were not prosecuted for having sex outside of marriage, because that's not illegal. What these men did was to have sex with girls under 16 years old. 16 being the age of consent, they were breaking the law. Men (and women) of all races are prosecuted for this crime.

BB, London,

I also saw the BNP report months ago and, being who they are it was totally ignored. Now perhaps the police will close these 'slag houses' and Enmans will preach respect for white women from their mosques. Both actions are long overdue.
I have noticed for myself how white women are treated in one particular Asian run service station in St Albans where the men look with loathing at them and make derogatory remarkes about them loudly in their language.
What also needs to be addressed is the number of fetched marriages that go on year in year out. This scam brings in thousands of illiterate breeders who will always be a burden on the state and will have at least five children each.

Thomas, St Albans,

Nothing said about deporting these lowlifes at the end of their sentences? Why on earth not? We sure don't want them in Britain.

Doug, Glasgow,

So the police fear being labelled as racist?
Well I have another label for them: Incompetent.

And being incompetent is far worse than them being 'racist'.

The police are there to protect the citizens, and if they are unwilling to do their job for whatever reason then they should be given the sack; starting with the commissars at the top.

A Kenworthy, Bradford, West Yorkshire

I totally agree with the above .. The term 'Asian' usually only relates to Muslim men in such incidents, very rarely to other Asian groups. Please do not relate 'all' Asians in this group.

Mariyam, London,

Absolute rubbish! The men engaged in such activities are common criminals found in every society. They should be tried, and if found guilty, appropriately sentenced.
Islam nor Asian culture teaches none of the things you allege, neither does Brtiish culture, but one still finds rapists, paedophiles, homophobes etc. in every community. So let's face facts as they are!

Farouk Ismail, Ilford, Essex

So, it looks as though the BNP WERE right after all.

Peter Taylor , Uxbridge, Englan

Please dont give British Asians one single identity. This is being done by Muslims who originate from Pakistan. Not Hindus or Sikhs who originate from India. Be specific.

Sanjay, London, London, England

nick griffin and mark collett found themselves in court for bringing this to the publics attention.how public spirited the bbc were, to try and get them 7 years imprisonment for it.does this mean the bbc condone this sort of behavior?

csm, derbyshire,

Why is every council so worried about racism if people break the law then they must be punished severly. The sentencing of sex with minors should be increased to one of deterrent of at least 10 years without parole then placed on the register. For those who are not citizens deported to their countries of origin after completing jail.

bugsy, Burley-in-Wharfedale, England

It's appalling to hear people believe there's a huge conspiracy between police, "Left Establishment" and "the authorities" to ignore crimes committed against white women by Asian/Pakistani/Muslim men. This is utter rubbish. Our job is to protect ALL citizens and punish ALL criminals, not ignore some to appease 'certain groups'. People obviously have a very low regard for their police if that is what they think. I can state categorically that we pursue all criminals with equal vigor, irrespective of colour/religion. We're not cowed by 'certan' groups; indeed we've excellent relationships with 'communities'. But it seems that some people want us to pursue with 'a little bit extra' members of minority groups; we dont- we're fair &pursue all equally. Some want to believe child abuse is some how inherent to 'Pakistani' culture; sorry to disappoint but it isn't. We have good people & bad in all parts of our society; we need to accept this &not get hung up on ethnicity, which is coincidental

DC Paul Cunningham, Lancashire,

This is all terrible from all those concerned here and only the BNP come out of this with any honour! Visit Lahore were the muslim men have young girls either from Nepal or orphans.

Chris White, London, UK

The BNP reported this two years back and Mrs cryer said they were only wipping up racial hatered in the area nice to see were her loyalties lie

Alan Brown, Barnsley, England

This story implies that this is something newly "exposed" and yet the BNP has been campaigning about this for years.

For reasons of political correctness the Police and authorities have turned their face away and the media, whilst fully aware of this "industry" have refused to pick up the story.

What faith can we ever have in our institutions if they steadfastly deny what the people see every day on the streets.

Geoff Miller, Josselin, France

Most people who have posted their comment[s] have assumed that a person who has an Arabic name is automatically a practicing Muslim.

Education in this country should be revamped.

Mohammed, London, UK

Protecting vulnerable children is not a 'target' for police. Therefore they presumably don't pursue the problem with much vigor. It's disturbing that they have turned a blind eye to much of this abuse, particularly as it was the subject of a Channel 4 documentary 3 years ago. Hopefully if these practices are given more publicity the police will be shamed into taking effective action. I think most people, like me, are sick and tired of authorities tip-toeing around muslim sensitivities. The police allowed extremist clerics to publicly preach hatred and rally young men to their cause - and now this. Are they ever going to learn the lesson that appeasement does not pay?

Lin, London, UK

"Whatsoever you sow you shall reap" Jesus Christ .......good to see that the BNP has the interests of the law abiding tax paying majority at heart whilst the government's only concern is to ensure nobody offends imigrants

Andrew W, chester, Cheshire

Seem to recall Australia has faced this problem many times but it's all hushed up.

Stan(expat), USA,

To ZEB , and all the others with chips on their shoulders. Who said these beasts were muslims, its Not mentioned in the article, having a muslim sounding name does not make YOU a muslim. For godsake these two men committed a evil act and should be punished, there are many whites who committe these barbaric evil acts. So fellow muslims the name MUSLIMS was NOT mentioned in this article

anne chohan, croydon, england

It is an outrageous fact that asian men believe white women (whatever their age) are 'easy' and that their own women are to be treated with respect until they become their wives and then these women are treated worse than dogs.

If these men are so desperate for sex why not pay for it?

kim, London,

Among all the irrelevancies about whether these criminals are Asian or not, I agree with George Rodger, Vincent Bate and John Standing, that the BNP has been raising this problem for the last few years. It is apparently going on in any town with a sizeable Muslim community. Their religion apparently teaches that they have the right to do whatever they wish with non-believer girls. I agree with John Standing - these are English girls. English!

The English are a racial group within the meaning of the Race Relations Act. Few seem to realise this.

Margaret Stoll, Rochford, Essex, England

So we should vote the explosive-hoarding BNP becasue 2 Asian (or any not normal, non-deviant, white) men have been found guilty of molesting white girsls; by that argument, we should vote Muhajiroon or Hizbut Tarhir when we reaslise that white men have been doing the same thing for donkeys years ; the BNP doesnt tell you about the white men who do the same (and get convicted).The actions of 2 men are descipable, but to tarnish a community of almost 2 million is atrocious.If there are hundreds of cases of this, then take them to court and prove them instead of slandering a whole group.It is unbelievable that the police are hushing up paedophile rings just to keep a few immigrants happy, as people seem to believe; just hear yourself talk.Neil (Manchester), I dont know about your case, but if there was anything non-consensual the police would DEFINITEELY have intervened (I know from experience), & in Manchester they like to do it much more quickly if the suspect is a bit brown.

Joanne , Southampton , England

This article is an excellent one, because at last someone has recognised, as many of us have, that there is a difference between racism, as generally promoted by the PC Brigade, and cultural behavior.
Cultures are by their very nature quite diverse, and many are compatible, but some cultures are simply incompatible, and this difference is most apparent when comparing accepted western culture with those of Islamic origin. The sooner we understand this situation, the sooner we will realise that multiculturalism, as defined and encouraged by our government, is responsible for much of the division within our society. When these divisions manifest themselves they are, routinely, interpreted as being racist in origin when they are not!

Desmond, Barnstaple, Devon

So these men should have been described as Muslims rather than Asians?

Whatever else the Islamic religion can be accused of, handing out ecstasy and alcohol (as these men were) wouldn't be a practice even the most hardened Islamophobe would associate with the faith.

One thing is for sure, if they were Muslims they would not be doing this!

Ali, London, Middlesex

This is a crime that should have been dealt with immediately and seriously by the police but they did not because of the politically correct racism. I disgaree with Anne Cryer's belief that it was due to the strict Asian culture. There are cases of child rape happening in communes that believe in free love etc..The police should have investigated it properly and fairly instead of worrying about the rapists' skin colour. This failure to investigate immediately cause even more racial tension and prejudice. Please remember that politically correct racism is just as dangerous and evil as other types of bigotry.

Carolyn Jones, Surbiton,

they should have got 10 years then deported at the end of their time

patricia, birkenhead, england

Once again, 'political correctness' threatens the fabric of our society and our very liberty. Here is a very real problem that cannot be aired because we all risk being accused of racism. No mention may be made of a religion and culture that abuses women, is violenty homophobic and belives in virtual witchcraft. A community that is violenty patriarchal and exhibits the worst bigotry and prejudice since Medieval times. No wonder emigration is rocketing!

Fiona Baines, Manchester,

Well, well, well. Who would have thought it, 8 years after Macpherson and the police are institutionally racist against the indegenous population.

jasper, chelmsford,

This has been going on for forty years or more in this country and the authorities have consistantly failed to do anything about it.Its not being racist,its applying the law and the sooner all parties concerned understand that and apply the proceedures to bring these people to justice the better.

Colin, London,

I am disturbed that the courts and the police are failing in their duties to investigate cases fairly and actively, and to deal with convicted criminals with appropriate severity, because of concerns that what they do may be 'racist'.

I don't care what country or culture the criminal comes from. This is England and its (generally) enlightened values need to be respected. Any notion within any ethnic community that a woman falling outside a strictly defined system of 'honour' automatically deserves to be treated without any respect at all(and, by default, is free game for the sexually repressed males of such community, e.g. witness the gang rapes committed as part of honour killings, gang rapes that occur as part of disputes within a community, and gang rapes of the white girls described above) is sick, stupid and quite deservedly should be squashed with serious, deterrent punishment. No kid gloves here please.

david lee, HK,

Why does it always have to come down to a muslim being a pervert and a bad human.... all because of some evil individuals who do crimes and call themselves muslims??...even our muslim laws disallow such behaviour of abuse and punish em severely...these criminals are not muslims they are bad humans...
it shouldnt be blamed on a country or religion or any community whatsoever...everywhere their exist human beings who are extremists and ill mannered...why do we need to blame the whole community for their crimes....
why not just use their names instead of labelling them asians or muslims or pakistanis?
The media should just regard the criminals by their names instead of saying two asians just two men. No arguments and no hatred. problem solved.
I dont understand why people are recalling incidents....they feel proud of it or what.. they wanna show everyone who is better and worse? i can google right now and name countless rapists and criminals of every religion!

Zub , India,

Unethical men from "traditional" cutlures tend to view all anglo or wester women as worthless whores, as it suits their exploitation mentality. I suspect in many parts of the world the converse is true, such as in Asia, where unethical western pedophiles prey on Asian children forced into prostitution.

Amma H., Ottawa, Canada

It's about time that all people from whatever background they come from realise that the British law applies to everyone, residents and visitors alike, British passport holders or not! I work all over the world and have to adhere to all the laws of those lands, and as is the case in Britain - 'Ignorance or cultural background' is no excuse. In some of these countries I would have been whipped or even stoned to death for much less!
I agree with the previous statements that we should not 'generalise' the Asian community but is it not about time that they started to be seen to police themselves and deal with law breakers instead of turning the other cheek. When the general population see that these communities are acting, then they will receive the respect that the majority of them deserve.

J. Geering, Norwich, UK

Re Ann Cryers statement that: "They ( asian men) do not seem to understand that there are white girls as moral and as good as Asian girls".

"Moral and good". What patronising rubbish. Young girls of whatever race or background should have the right to grow up freely without the attentions of predatory males. Regardless of whether they are "moral and good."

It seems if a girl goes out unswathed in cloth and unaccompanied by male relatives she is not "moral and good".

james c, london,

http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/cri-crime
can find in this site some statistics on crimes of all sorts by country
please note the site is of euroamerican origine evn the CIA is cited amon the authors!..
nevertheless it shows the muslim's amongst the less contaminated
i hope it's not too late to put an end to antiislam hysteria
NOTA BENE : TAJ MAHAL ALSO IS MUSLIM

med, tunis,

Surely this is rape. Both these girls were younger than 16 and therefore could not consent. Why the short prison terms?

The crime of rape carries an eight-year sentence. As it has been established that neither of the girls could consent, and yet the two men proceeded to have sex with them, no furher prima facie evidence should be required to secure convicition.

The only possible means of avoiding the charge would be in the 'grey area' where if the older partner is less than two years older than the younger, the Police take no action.

This is not the case here. This is the second scandal to come from this apalling tale.



I've never commented on a piece in this paper before and think that the feature is a bit of a cynical ploy to get people back to the site to view pages they've been on before to read responses to their comments, thus driving page impressions up. I won't be doing that, but feel free to comment on my view.

Seb, London, Engalnd

This issue has been swept under the carpet for nearly 10 years in West Yorkshire by the West Yorkshire police, who failed to tackle the issue.
A retired senior west yorkshire police officer is on record as having said so , and the BBC have evidence of this statement, obtained for a Five Live report documentary.

The same attitude is also prevalent in lancashire , with the Lancashire Police, who have attempted to sidetrack this issue by issuing 'warning notices' instead of arresting and cautioning individuals.

The reasons for this is that the police have now become 'politically correct' to the extent that they feel they must not take any action that rocks the multicultural boat.. During every discussion of this issue they declare ' it is not a racial issue' because they are afraid to reveal the facts.
We all KNOW it is a CULTURAL issue, and the police are a laughing stock amongst the white communities in Keighley, Bradford and East Lancashire.

Tom Williams, London,

Quote:
"After the trial, Ms Cryer said that young Asian men were caught between two cultures having been brought up in a Western society in families while retaining the cultural values of the Asian sub-continent. "

Why do we always have to find an excuse? They enjoy the advantages of our society why should they not accept the rules of our society?

Barbara Brennan, Bonn, Germany

One thing always surprises me. Why muslims react adversaly to critisism. Garnted that all the muslims are not evil and terrorists. However almost all the terrorists and evils tend to be muslims. I suppose muslims need to look inwards and reform their faith first with courage and purpose.

No point in avoiding the truth.

Ganesh, Mumbai, India

When I was at university there were plenty of non-muslim south asians who had the attitude that they'd have "fun" with a white girl before mummy and daddy fixed them up with a nice asian girl from their own community. Of course this is not as bad as what's been reported here but is to a some degree the same kind of attitude.

Adnan, Reading,

This is despicable behaviour. It gives all Asians like myself a very bad name. To be honest here in London we live in a very different world and i don't think this could happen, as there is far better integration of minorities.

These Asian ( mainly Muslim) males should liberalise their attitudes and stop living in the medieval world. It is only because relationships are so strictly controlled within Islam that these kind of things happen.

Deepan, London, U.K

I agree the whole asian thing is BS if your going to publish this sort of an article atleast go one step further and say there pakistani muslims (which they are). Im from england but no matter what im going to be considered an asian person and i dont want to be seen depicted in relation to these paedophiles.

RP , brum,

Please be specific and say 'Pakistani Muslims' and not 'Asians' and tar other ethnic communities who fall in this category including Hindus and Sikhs with the same brush.

AB, Guildford,

Perhaps Enoch Powell will be alot more prophetic than he is given credit for.

michael, ex-pat san diego, ca. / usa

Please stop reversing the truth, look EVEN the united nations statistics prove that muslims commit the less the average criminality only one tenth 1/10 when compared to all of other communities in the world

med, tunis, tunisia

Yes, it is clear these so called "Asian men" are not really men even, they are mere dogs or hyenas. They deserve to be treated extremely harshly.

Jack Stow, Birmingham, UK

I'm afraid I have some personel experience of this. The 13 year old daughter of a good friend of mine, although warned against it.....persisted in associating with a number of pakistani lads.some of them, (it turned out) up to 22 years of age.

Plied with drink.....9 of them ...had their way with her. The cuts, bruises and hysterical nature of her when found, gave away what had happened. Numerous individuals were arrested......They received, what amounted to , a slap on the wrist. Not enough proof....Haveing said that...the same police.denied a murder was racist.when 3 Pakistanis Knifed a locasl barman for no known reason.....What the Pakistans had been shouting, both before and during the murder was not released in court.

We live in a country, which thanks to labour lunacy , and the PC brigade, which has one rule for some, and another for others.

What is happening in the UK today, is vindication for Enoch Powell, and those who left to become Aussies, Kiwi's & Canucks.

N Wilson, Bourne, Lincs

This is clearly about MUSLIM men from a deprived part of the Unitied Kingdom. I am utterly shocked at the complete ignorance and racial stereotyping displayed by The Times -- which is now in the same league as The Mail. It is bad enough to make me buy The Guardian!!!

Don, New York City, USA

John, they are all Asians as you are a (perhaps) an European. How closely do you share your identity with a Bosnian Muslim? The root of the problem lies in rigorous medieval social structure practised by a particular group of people with a certain set of beliefs. Referring to them as Asians completely muddles the issue. You might as well call them British, because they are British anyway!

Sammy, Dundee, United Kingdom

My wife is Asian and finds the British use of the term Asian to generally mean Indian/Pakistani offensive: she is from China where 1.5 billion Asians live. Asians include white Russians from the Russian far east, Japanese to very dark skined southern Indians. Please be more specific.

Would you use the term "European" to only describe say Greeks ?

mark, bristol,

Why are all 'Asian' men being lump together. The two men in question are both from the muslim community. As a asian man I sick of being lump together with communities I have nothing in common with. This is an example of lazy journalism.

siva, london, UK

If a man is desperate for sex,isn't it preferable that he consider paying for the services of a "professional woman" rather than groom innocent girls with drugs and alcohol.As long as she's not forced into prostitution I think that this is by far the lesser of two alternatives.

Mike, Dunstable, England

So this story has finally reached the mainstream media? In the mean time, how many white girls have been abused while PC idiots have been wringing their hands.

By the way, the practice of arranged marriage to foreign born cousins must be ended now, or at least impose a 25+ age limit as they do in Denmark. This is vital if the worrying demographics are to be halted.

Hugh Appleby, Ealing,

I can't see how the comments about young Asian Males are relevant in this case. The two men involved are 46 and 32.

Celine Hynes, west midlands,

I am disturbed by your article. It is totally wrong to categorise this as an 'Asian' problem. this is aproblem created by a promiscuous, liberal society. If this was truely an asian problem, surely it would have been prevalent in Asian countries.

A desai, gerrards cross, uk

What about all he Europeans that go to all these third world country's does the BNP tell us about that ? All races are much the same when it comes to sex.

michael campbell, DERRY, N IRELAND

The jail terms seem (to me) to be shockingly low - just under 6 years (effectively, less than 4 years) for abducting young girls and then giving them class-A drugs, alcohol and then raping them? Either I've mis-understood this news item, or a judge somewhere needs to be fired immediately.

Michael, Brighton, England

Thankyou for The Times for printing this story, i feel in this time of political correctness, that it would be ignored, people need to know the truth about what is really happening in our towns and cities...

Please can you report on the trial of Charlene Downes in Preston, the 14 year old school girl who it is alleged was strangled by the owner of a Blackpool kebab shop, Iyad Albattikhi, who is accused of having sex with her then strangling and disposing of her,after which it is said he joked that her body had gone into the kebab meat....

These stories need to be reported for us, the silent majority who have to put up with this politicaly correct society we have been thrown into....

Again many thanks to the Times.

Shane, Blackburn, Lancs

To Vincent Bate.

People like you are demented. People like you are responsible for the behaviour exhibited by similar thinking people, irrespetive of the colour of your skin. Radical solutions are in your opinion kicking out everyone else from the country, just because they are brown or back, will lead to chaos. BESIDES THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO COULD BE WHITE AND WILL BE DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Mr P Mulay, Wadebridge Cornwall,

My daughter was similarly targeted and abused by 3 asian men. We live in Manchester. When I discovered what was going on I went to the police.

They just were not interested. We had groups of Asian men arriving in cars at all hours banging on the front door. It was a living hell.

I went to the police a total of 3 times, and tried to talk to the older family members of the Asian lads.

The police were very quick to respond then and I was threatened with arrest. The word racism was mentioned a few times.

In the end we had to move. My daughter was lucky nothing to serious happened but I unfortunately know of other young girls who have not been so luck.

Greater Manchester Police were ineffectual and seemed more concerned about my daughters attackers.

We know live in Macclesfield, Cheshire where this problem does not exist as there are no Asians.

Neil Smith, Cheshire, UK

Are they Asian, or are they more specifically Muslim? If thhe two people found guilty are Muslims, that fact should be revealed, since otherwise, Sikhs and Hindus are being unfairly demonised. Hussein sounds to me like a Muslim name, i.e Saddam Hussein. Why is Muslim always substituted for Asian? The police aren't the only people who are worried about offending groups of people.

Senior, Dewsbury, England

Why does it always have to come down to a muslim being a pervert and a bad human.... all because of some evil individuals who do crimes and call themselves muslims??...even our muslim laws disallow such behaviour of abuse and punish em severely...these criminals are not muslims they are bad humans...
it shouldnt be blamed on a country or religion or any community whatsoever...everywhere their exist human beings who are extremists and ill mannered...why do we need to blame the whole community for their crimes....
why not just use their names instead of labelling them asians or muslims or pakistanis?
The media should just regard the criminals by their names instead of saying two asians just two men. No arguments and no hatred. problem solved.
I dont understand why people are recalling incidents....they feel proud of it or what.. they wanna show everyone who is better and worse? i can google right now and name countless rapists and criminals of every religion!

Zub , delhi, india

Both Labour and the Tories are completely useless in this disgraceful situation, and so are the BBC and much of the rest of the media. They'd much rather either turn a blind eye or scream "racist" at the BNP for pointing it out.

If we want truth and common sense policies to be brought back to government the only way we will ever get them is to vote for the BNP.

Herbert Thornton, Victoria, Canada

THIS IS NOT RACIST IT'S CRIMINAL.
When will our Police & government accept this ?
The offence sex outside marriage is called adultery in Iran & other Muslim countries, & carries the death penalty, here it's called an offence.
We know the repression these males live under & the hypocracy of their religions, they are users of women outside their own culture. Such sects that prevent sex before marriage , FOR GIRLS, have real sexual hangups.
How dare they despoil our girls & not their own .
Just take a look at their activity on Skype Me mode , of Skype, the majority of men, I repeat, the majority of men, are Asian, & Arabic.
The problem of a multi racial country is not being able to change the culture of the immigrant, are we supposed to be this tolerant ? & we kid ourselves that it will ever change as long as we have weak government, who can't even implement proper laws & punishment for 'honour killings.
As for Tyler here on morals,you think that help's when 10 ecstacy tablets are given?

Maggie Millington, Brittany , France

While the media are afraid of calling a spade a spade none of these problems will ever go away, ASIAN term hides the fact that majority of these men are muslims. The word ASIAN is being used so much to describe these incedents that the men who do this feel that they have gotton away with these crimes. If the media told it how it was, particular communities would be afraid of doing such things.

Many thanks from hindu and sikh community for including us in such issues.

singh, london, united kingdom

According to Tyler, men try it on --- so it's normal for adult men to seek out girls of 13 /14 to have sex with is it? And young girls need to be taught the importance of morals. Why is it down to women (or in some cases, female children) to be responsible for the actions of another?

Jamie, London,

What I find worrying is that this is the ONLY place this news has been carried, nothing on the BBC or Scotsman for example.
Am I being cynical to say that if it was young black or asians being exploited by whites we'd have multiple enquiries and govt hand wringing by now?.

Adam , Edinburgh,

James (if that is your real name) of London, UK - All communities have their rotten apples. If Indians have more rotten apples than Pakistanis, there would be proportionately more Indians convicted and in prisons. If so, the Indian community would need some serious introspection. Likewise, if it is Pakistanis who have a disproportionately higher number of their compatriots in prison, then it is they who need introspection. Putting a label of Asians on both does not help, and only blurs the issue.

KM, London, England

Lighten up!

Just because a couple of people from a race do anything bad, it doesn't make the entire race bad. Why make this into a racist campaign? Isn't there anyone in the white race who has commited a crime? Following the faulty, racist ideas of Cryer, that would make the entire white race bad.

Unless what Cryer wants is an all-out race war, such implications are misplaced.

A Reader, New York, NY, USA

Please distinguish between ' Asian Men'. Hindu culture is completely different from the Arab inspired cultures of South Asia. The Kama Sutra. the temples of Khajuraho celebrate women and their sexuality. There is traditionally lesser sexual frustration and hence lesser need for deviant behaviour in the Hindu society ( with regional exceptions).

The Muslims, Victorians and other invaders found it contrary to their sensibilities at that time. Some still don't get it..

Kara Swart, London, UK

I am sickened by your political correctness in labelling these men "Asians" when they are, in fact, "Pakistanis" or "of Pakistani origin".

You unjustly tar a whole continent with the same brush.

John Sinclair, Halifax, England

The same thing happens in Sweden. Muslim men are raping and gang raping Swedish women.
The rate of rape has increased by six times and it's put down to the increase in the muslim population.
Like England the government in Sweden does not want to deal with this because of so called racial tensions.

Fabrizio, London,

It does not mention that these 2 have been added to the sex offenders register.
Also more worringly why was it that they were told explicitly by police and social services that both girls were under-age and should be returned to care, and not arrested then?

This smacks of double standards and suggests police and social services are turning a blind eye in the name of political correctness and racial sensitivity.
I do hope the Times investigates this further.

aub, london,

This is not about the 'BNP being proven right again' - this is an ignorant view. This happens in every culture - not just Asians. People are just afraid of the truth and as the reader above put it - focussing on one ethnic group sells more papers and 'sensationalises' things more.

Susie, New York, New York

I agree with Ravi from Bangalore, I really dislike the tag "Asian" this is used far too often in cases related to terrorism and other such matters like this one described in the article. People who are Hindu, Sikh etc find this term really offensive and misleading as at least 90% of the stories presented in the media are connected to people who are Muslim. This is the real thing that everyone is afraid of saying - and the aspect that is most necessary to be dealt with. It would be brave journalism to stop maligning an entire sub-continent and instead being brave enough to call a spade a spade.

S. K, Manchester, UK

Let's be fair! This is a sad act by two grown up muslim men on young under-aged girls, who happened to be 'white' and an easy prey for them. Hence, these guys should also be placed on the sex register, like everyone else, what ever race they belong to.
Sadly, this muslim culture wants their own young girls to walk around with 'burkas' or other full body coverings, whilst the guys go around 'ruining' the lifes of girls from other 'cultures' whether they come from the white, black or brown colours, as long as they are not from their own 'religion'.
It is true that the 'politicians' want to sweep this problem under the carpet, in case 'they' shout out that its a racist policy.
Ms Cryer is right though about them being made to understand that 'morals' are supposed to be the same for all 'girls', whatever their race or colour.

Arvin, London, Uk

Of course, if it has been white people grooming Asian girls, this would have topped the TV news for weeks on end. It's good that 'The Times' has had the courage to run this story, but it does show the double standards that the people of this country have to live under in the name of political correctness. In particular, the attitude of the police has been utterly disgraceful. All they seem to care about is to please their political masters and safeguard their precious pensions, rather than enforce law and order.

Mark LV, Reading, UK

John: I find your comments dishonest and hypocritical. Saying this is an Asian issue is equivalent to saying that all criminal activity is a White issue. You do your comments no justice by failing to understand that the term asian is a generic term which can have a wide variety of meaning. Hindus are asians as are muslims as are chinese as are sikhs. The history and culture of hindus v/s muslims is as different as chalk and cheese. By generalising as this article does and as you do, you are not helping to solve the problem. By failing to identify the actual perpertrators of these horrible acts, and by actually insisting that all asians be placed in one basket and this be treated as an asian issue, then I am afraid this helpd no one but only creates a feeling of prejudice.

Srinavas, london,

its a human instinct and there must be many "whites" and "asians" inluding not only pakestanis but indians, bengalis, arabs etc, doing the same thing. what measures are being taken to erradictae the problem rather then classifying it as being committed by "Asians" or "browns" or "whites" or "moslems" or "hindus" etc. in my view the way this problem is projected is making thing worse rather then curing the problem. you are isolating someone this way and losing control. get them in the circle, things will improve much.

Shiraz Mehmud, Karlskrona,

Agreed, appalling to generalise and call them Asians.

However, to assume that all white males are Christian is equally ludicrous, the vast majority are not practising Christians. I adhere to no religion at all.

John, Sussex,

I seem to remember when I was a teenager about 15 years ago that White men of around 25 to 30 years old used to ply young White girls aged 13-15 years with drink and drugs. This is very common amongst the working classes, particularly within housing estantes. Such behaviour is not new and has been happening for many years in all communities. To scapegoat Pakistani (Muslim) men is dishonest and panders to our increasingly belligerent Islamphobic attitudes.

Sam, Glasgow,

Yes I am of Pakistani origin. Yes I am British. No I do not condone this sort of behaviour. I can also see why the BNP are angry about this. Let me assure you that the overwhelming majority are decent human beings, getting on with earning a living etc. I would happily grass up anybody I suspected of this kind of behaviour.

Disgusted, London, UK

Multicultral Society....! ..What a joke....hold on to the sail, because things are gonna get worst.

Adam, Rotherham,

It does not matter if the men are Asian, American or from Mars. The fact that they are Asian is meaningless compared to the fact that they are sex offenders.

Carlos Ribeiro, Sao Paulo, Brazil

I would like to know why these two men were not charged with statutory rape. If there was enough evidence to convict for grooming why on earth were they not charged and convicted for statutory rape? They had sex with girls under the age of consent. I find that quite disturbing. There is such eagerness to use new legislation to prove its worth and efficacy that perfectly good legislation is ignored in its favour. If you knowingly have sex with a child under 16 you may be charged with, and possibly convicted of statutory rape. Period.

Aimee Sexton, Cardiff,

"Gang rapes in London:

59% of victims are white

49% of gang rapists are black
13% of gang rapists are of Indian/Pakistani appearance"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3397433.stm

Now, these stats does not mean ALL blacks are rapists. Evil people exist in every ethnicity/race.

Peter Parker, Luton, UK

"Funny, isn't it, how when a Muslim man does a crime, it is representative of Muslim culture, but when a Sikh or Hindu does it, it comes down to a bad individual.

Hypocrites!" ~ James, London, UK

Well said James!. Intelligent & honest folks such as you, are a rarity in UK.

Mohammed, London, UK

I wonder what would happen if the situation was opposite and white men groomed young Asian girls? I believe that riots would erupted immediately and would lasted for weeks. Probably some of the innocent people would be killed and property destroyed.
And now we have an absurd situation that judges have to apologies for sending some Asian criminals to prison!
Stop pamper with criminals no matter who they are and what colour of skin they have.

Bess, Uppsala, Sweden

I am a modern sikh male and am sick and tired of the word "asian" being used so as not to offend muslims. A white male is not refered to as european in any other press reports, why brand the people of a whole continent. If a muslim commits a crime say it is a muslim if it is a sikh the nsay it is a sikh.
The sikh community has long known about this sort of predatory sexual behaviour of muslim males. To a muslim all non-muslims are looked down on. For many years muslims men have been targeting non muslim girls (especially sikh) for sex grooming or to convert into muslims.

j.singh, coventry, west midlands

Just which group this is must be clarified quickly and clearly by Ann Cryer or else it gives fuel to the BNP which has indeed raised this, but in a racist way. Nobody doubts that certain ethnic minorities tolerate or even encourage a truly disgusting attitude towards women, but these groups need to be identified clearly and have it made plain to them that this type of behaviour is just not acceptable to the rest of us. If they don't like it, tough.We won't make the problem go away by pandering to them. Of course few sane politicians want to be seen to be targeting Muslims, but if it most of these abusers are a certain type of ignorant Muslim then there is no point in pretending otherwise. If they're not stopped, then all brown Asian men of whatever religion will be smeared by being lumped together with these cruel and backward peasants. This is both unfair and very damaging to future race relations. .

Ja, London,

John Lynch from Whittington, UK said:
"No, Arindam, they are Asians. Until we accept that we will make no progress. Allow me to correct that -- until YOU accept that there will be no progress. It's too easy to brush things off by saying, "Oh, they're not really Asians". They ARE really Asians. There is too much denial among Asians in this country and it is merely a form of hypocrisy and dishonesty."

In that case John, it would only be fair to blame Brits for crimes committed by Poles, Lithuanians, Germans, Norwegians, Romanians, and any other 'Europeans'. Going by your logic, Brits are 'Europeans', hence crimes committed by Romanians would make Brits equally guilty. I'm sure you'll agree with me.

Prasant, New York,

I am very frustrated at the various news repots where issues relating to Pakistani men are passed of as an Asian issue. Please be specific and be brave enough to call these men Pakistani and not asian as it is not fair on teh Indian community.

Jas, Birmingham,

Look, you say they're from the Asian sub-continent. So call them by their proper names. Over 1.8-Billion people, in a wide swath from Korea up North to Indonesia down south, and stretching all the way to the eastern edge of the "Asian subcontinent" are also technically Asian, but are definitely not of the cultural mindset you are referring to.

Ed, Manila, Philippines

18 women a month get raped in UK. I don't get it, where did race come into it?

Query, London,

Firstly, they were caught and convicted. Secondly, they are not Muslim but Pakistani Asian men. In so far as the supposed "Hindu", "Sikh" analogy goes - does the same standard apply to say the Sikh, Hindu murderer and rapist of Hannah Foster, or is this just open "Muslim" bashing season?

Finally, how the indigenous people can talk beggars belief. Yes, these two were criminals and convicted but how can a nation which itself is chest deep in despicable crimes against women (and children) claim the moral high ground? This maybe is the greatest hypocracy.

On the other hand, the largest rape pogrom in the history of mankind is managed by the Hindutva in India who have systematically terrorised, murdered and raped the Dalits in India for over a millenia - where is the outrage on this? Will Sunita of London ever comment on this? I very much doubt it.

Seems as though this is just another dig at Islam and Muslims - whereas in reality it has got nothing to do with it.

Zeb Khan, Manchester, Lancashire

Part of the problem is the inability or unwillingness of our western culture to stand up for, and protect, the rights of young women. In particular, to defend their right to a safe childhood, and a properly supervised adolescence. We abandon our young boys and girls to rampant cosumerism, inappropriate sexual knowledge and behaviour - eroding their self-respect and making them vulnerable to every kind of exploitation.
We owe our children a better life than this.

Sarah N., London,

It's clear this isn't an 'asian problem'- it's a problem of men wanting sex, & the easiest way for them is to go for the easiest people, i.e. alienated young women who are in 'care' homes. If these men had found easier victims, whatever age/colur, they would have. A. Birch is right- this is a problem facing all communities, whatever colour, race or religion. To pretend that it isn't done in Hindu, Skih or Christian communities is ludicrous; it does. Furthermore, this lumping together of all 'Muslim males' as being sex-deprived beasts is ofcourse nonsense- there are some people who claim to be Muslim but do beastly things; yet there are vast number who don't; the same is true for all communities- there are some very bad people, but most are not. My sis-in-law married a Muslim, and i can assure you he does not view all women as non-persons, nor does he have a special hatred for 'white' women; nor does he view them as 'conquests'; rather adultery, & especially paedophilia, are forbidden

jo beth klein, newcastle,

England is in such a sorry state of affairs that most outsiders would consider its present cultural state as being irrelevant and irreversible. The writing has been on the toilet walls for a number of years, England has become a cesspool of cultures that are not integrating or building a greater England. Will historians look back and say that; “this was their darkest hour at the beginning of the end.

Steveascension

steve Ascension, sydney, Australia

Damn political correctness! If a man breaks law, he's a criminal and must be persecuted by law, no matter he's an Asian or a white. Shame on the authorities if they are unwilling to act because of fears of being labelled racist. These bastards should have been punished more severely.

Eli, Taipei,

Why are people suggesting the term muslim should be used and not asians? Correct me if I am wrong but muslims are found all over the world (2 billion approximately)? They are located in places such as Africa, Middle East, Asia, Eastern Europe & Europe (Parts of Spain). So what has religion to do with this article and the conviction of them men?

PS for all those muslim haters, Muslims believe in Jesus (isha phuh)Christ, along with Moses, Abraham, Noah etc. We also believe that Jesus will come to Earth Destroy the Anti-Christ (Dajjal). The Quran is the last & final message from God. Peace

Abdul, London, UK

Disgusted, isn't a strong enough expression to express my feelings. Yes, I too want my country back and consider this sort of cultural phenomena totally alien to me.

Unlike others here who seem to have faith in the authorities that they WILL receive their country back, I don't. I am emigrating soon. Cheerio, I'll send you all a postcard!

Stefan, London,

This story comes as no surprise to me. The area where i come from has been plagued by this problem for years. And yes it is muslim men grooming very young girls to use for sex.

Unfortunately and i believe down to fear of upseting certain communities it has been brushed under the carpet and ignored by the police and others in authority.

The BNP and the channel four despatches programme reported on this happening a good 18months ago, and nothing was done. However if it had been the other way round and had been white men grooming young asian girls can you imagine the outcry, all the MPs would have come out of the woodwork to complain that something should be done, It stinks of hypocrisy.

Carolyn, W. YORKSHIRE, ENGLAND

To Joanna in Bristol "Where are the other convictions"

National media such as the BBC rarely cover these stories.

As an example across the Pennines search the internet for 'Operation Parsonage' and the coverage from the local press Telegraph & Argus. You will find details of convictions back to 2003. Convictions are hard to get.

Would it be fair of me to retort "I think we know where your political motivations lie". Hopefully your request for more evidence is a positive step in the removal of your own blinkers.

Jim, Northampton, UK

i would just like to make people aware of the fact that pakistani people may also be christian, so just because you are pakistani does not necessarily make you a muslim.
also, just because these terrible people have muslim names does not necessarily make them muslims.
so i must disagree with all the people that are claiming this is a muslim problem.

zara, nottingham,

I am intrigued by the comments of the various Asian writers. Let us not forget similar attacks in areas such Southall (with a large Sikh community) and Leicester (with a large Hindu community). Pre-marital promiscuity is rife in all ethnic communities. Another example of how discontent among the ethnic religions only serves as fodder for the BNP. Whilst the BNP side with Hindus and Sikhs, against Muslims it’s only a matter of time until they realise that for the BNP, it is not a hatred against a particular religion, but rather against anybody who is not white and British. Attacks such as these are a serious problem, regardless of what community, religion etc. Lets not lose sight of the problem.

John Brody, Leicester, England

This is not a purely asian male or muslim male problm but rather, as some others have also said a male problem. Therfore, why are these men being categorised as belonging to a certain ethnic group with having a propensity to committing such crimes?There are so many incidents in this country where white English men commit this sort of crime but are never referred to as "English, white or christian" men.
And another thing, even though those girls are under age, all teenagers these days understand and know what sex is so why did they allow those adult men to befriend them? Why did not they tell their parents or guardians that adult men were making sexual advancement to them? If there was a better working relationship between child and parent/guardian in which parents explained certain moral rights and wrongs these kind of incidents can be avoided.

N Gondal, London, UK

Why do indiginous British people use the term "Asian" to label someone who has family connections with another country? This expression has been encouraged by the "Asian" community as a rallying point , principally against white-racist views, and as a means of reinforcing their self-identity. However, when used in this context, the term has obviously outlived its usefulness, especially to non Pakistanis! This "branding" of various races has always puzzled me. Why do people who are born in the UK want to be stereotyped as Asians/Indians/Pakistanis/Bangladeshis etc etc? Why do some also want the label "black"? Then there are the "faith brands"; another layer to their identity as a Muslim/Sikh/Hindu/Jane etc. This case has also highlighted some anti Pakistani views amongst fellow "Asians". This is the racism that dare not speak its name. Tribalism is the root of all racism, and it also masks serious gender related cultural ssues. These were just bad men from Lancashire. No more, no less.

Ian Simpkins, Offley Hay, UK

It is wrong to term these two men simply "Asian" as it seems clear from their names that they're from the Muslim community. Of course "Muslims groom young Christian girls for sex" would be a much more inflammatory headline so political correctness and fear of the Muslim community's hypersensitivity strikes again. These men are clearly brought up in ignorance of the community around them and of sex in general and as a result behave in inappropriate ways. Society has a duty to face this problem openly and tackle it with education.

Muslim men who commit these crimes need to learn that just because a woman is free and educated and given rights equal to men, it doesn't mean she's immoral. These men are taking their aggression and ignorance out on the girls they meet. This reflects the racism existing among many Muslims in their assumption that all non-Muslims are immoral and promiscuous, based on an inability to understand how a secular society functions.

MB, Edinburgh,

There have been many cases this year in the West Midlands where Muslim men have been grooming young Sikh girls , some as young as 12. I work in the legal service and these cases are on the increase and have made me physically sick. It is Muslim men committing these crimes against YOUNG White/black/Sikh and Hindu girls. Not "Asian" men

Steve Anderson, Birmingham,

"They do not seem to understand that there are white girls as moral and as good as Asian girls.” Cryer in this statement confirms the sentiment that controls the labour party in this country. White girls are as good as asian girls ,not just some of the white girls, Cryer.

Terry, Radstock, England

This problem is not only with asian men but, with all men. Gary Glitter is not asian!!!! The views on sex in this country are to be ashamed of. All men in this country are allowed to exploit women and girls of any age. Women and girls need to be protected and not be available to these monsters to abuse. We have to censor tv that shows sex just to be about fun or its cool to have lots of partners. Hardcore porn is easily available to everyone of all ages since the arrival of the internet. We have to be responsible for our children. We have to control all the easily available porn on the web. Check any teenagers mobile these days and they will have plenty of hardcore porn on there. WE MUST EDUCATE OUR CHILDREN ON THESE MATTERS. PROTECT THEM FROM THE MEDIA. PUT AWAY FOR A LONG TIME THE SICK MINDED PEOPLE WHO EXPLOIT GIRLS OR WOMEN.

stewart, manchester, uk

All Parents should take note that some Children's Charities working in Schools and elsewhere systematically Advocate "Free Time" and create the expectation for this whether or not this is putting Children at Risk of Exploitation or not.

These sort of issues exist elsewhere in the UK as well.

Jane, , Scotland

You bend over backwards to be understanding of these Pakistani child molesters with all this "caught between two cultures" rubbish.
Would you be that understanding of those who voted BNP?
Must they always be racist scum?

B Wood, Kingston,

It is mainly a muslim problem, and it is an insult to asian people in general to not say so.

MM, Andover, UK

Asian Men having sex with young girls has nothing to do with Islam, how many times do we hear 'white christian arrested for rape' 'white non believer arrested for armed robbery'

Do me a favour and jump of your islamaphobic band wagon Brian Roberts from Oxford!

It is not just Asian men doing it and if our whole society wasn't revolving around sex sex sex then just maybe it wouldn't happen quite as much. while i'm not arguing that sex with an under 16 is wrong, there were girls having sex at 11 when i was at school many moons ago, children are having sex in school fields! Maybe we should look at the wider community too

English Muslim, Peterborough,

Living in West London, where the majority of Asians are Hindus and Sikhs, I see repeatedly how these men who have just come from India (they're not British born) are eyeing up "white schoolgirls" on the bus, making lewd passes at them, and joking between them whilst doing so.

Whilst I do not deny that the areas that this articles refers to are full of predominantly Pakistani people, Hindus and Sikhs are living in denial if they think that this is a "Muslim" problem and does not happen in their communities.
Wasn't it on Crimewatch a few years back when three INDIAN immigrants were working in a restaurant, and they RAPED an underage WHITE girl. Hasn't an INDIAN, Maninder Pal Singh Kohli, been charged for the rape and murder of a WHITE teenager, Hannah Foster?
Funny, isn't it, how when a Muslim man does a crime, it is representative of Muslim culture, but when a Sikh or Hindu does it, it comes down to a bad individual.

Hypocrites!

James, London, UK

alce, london. that's a bit of a sweeping statement regarding asian girls. You only have to look at white, british girls (and boys) on holiday on the continent to know that promiscuity cannot be a label you can just mindlessly plonk on any group. Does the behaviour of a few entitle you to make ill informed, distasteful and sweeping statements about the majority? Incidentally, is that how you spell - hipocresy? duh! I can feel another mindless and sweeping statement coming along about literacy levels in this country. I only hope that your excuse is that English is not your first language.

katie , midlands, england

I resent that in one sweeping statement, I, as a tax-paying, law-abiding, white-collar Malaysian born Chinese contributing to UK society, am put in the same category of societal scum mainly from Pakistan, by the use of the word 'Asian'.

If they are Paksitani, say that they are Pakistani. If they are Muslim, say that they are Muslim.

Chee, Coventry,

Its true the BNP have been crying about this for years...

Hugh, London , England

authorities are reluctant to tackle the issue for fear of upsetting race relations in areas of the North West with large ethnic minority communities - they have always regarded anything that might challenge the Asian male communities "rights" as against local authority rules of political correctness. And what authority can afford the costs involved when challenged by the Commission for Equality? It has been going on for years, Ann Cryer is the onlyt MP to cover this issue.

Jane, Whittlesey, UK

Only 5 and a half years for such a crime? I suggest the UK adopt something similar to Jessica's Law. Here in the US, many states have adopted Jessica's Law which mandates a MINIMUM prison sentence of 25 years without parole, followed by a lifetime of electronic monitoring for the crime of child molestation. It's a bit draconian, but very necessary.

Note: The law was named after Jessica Lunsford, a 9 year-old girl who was kidnapped, raped, beaten, and burried alive by a sex offender a couple years ago in Florida.

Solo, Columbus, USA/ohio

The amount of stereotyping going on here is quite incredible. I am a British Indian woman Alice, and your generalisations are particularly egregious and offensive. In fact they mirror the kind of misogynistic rhetoric we hear from men bickering about the purity of 'their women', and talk about which race has women who are more promiscuous than the 'other' is such a base conversation. You come across as a major chauvinist.

Ruby, London,

I totally agree with u Prasant. Asia is a big continent which is inhabited by nations of different colour and race and culture. I always tell my friends that they should always make a clear distinction between "South East Asians" such as Chinese/Koreans and Asians like Pakistanis/Indians.

Joe, Newport,

Let us please be honest about this, taking a handful of extacy pills and having sex with older people before the age of 16 is actually distrubingly common (if you dont think so, you might not know your children as well as you think you do), and the men taking advantage of this fact are not , and have never been from one geographical location, age group or ethnic/religious group. If this had been a case involving two 19 year old white lads, would there have been a fuss, or even a case to begin with?

It is the crass, simplistic and essentialising cultural 'explanations' (' Asians are trapped between two cultures' etc) put forward by people like Cryer which obscure the real issues and play into the hands of the BNP and others who 'want their country back' (I can only assume that this is because they would rather go back to the 'good old days' when young women were only molested by men of their own ethnicity and faith).

K. Anders, Leamington Spa, Warwks.

As many other posters, I take umbrage at these men being labelled Asian. Call them Pakistani/Muslim etc. but lets not put all Asian men at risk! I realise that in Britain that is a synonym not for Japan and China but South Asia but its time that responsible media began calling a spade a spade. These men are NOT Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh and YES that makes a HUGE difference.

Anamika, London,

It's clear this isn't an 'asian problem'- it's a problem of men wanting sex, & the easiest way for them is to go for the easiest people, i.e. alienated young women who are in 'care' homes. If these men had found easier victims, whatever age/colur, they would have. A. Birch is right- this is a problem facing all communities, whatever colour, race or religion. To pretend that it isn't done in Hindu, Skih or Christian communities is ludicrous; it does. Furthermore, this lumping together of all 'Muslim males' as being sex-deprived beasts is ofcourse nonsense- there are some people who claim to be Muslim but do beastly things; yet there are vast number who don't; the same is true for all communities- there are some very bad people, but most are not. My sis-in-law married a Muslim, and i can assure you he does not view all women as non-persons, nor does he have a special hatred for 'white' women; nor does he view them as 'conquests'; rather adultery, & especially paedophilia, are forbidden

jo beth klein, newcastle,

So why not prosecute them as statutory rapists? Too old-fashioned for New Labour?

If "grooming" for sex is a crime, rather than actual intercourse, then the government is going to have prosecute 90% of the media, marketing and advertising world, and about 60% of academia. As far as I can tell, most modern Western "culture" consists of grooming young people for sex.

Ted S., Swindon,

Throughout history there have been those who have attempted to warn of dangers but who have been at best, ignored and, at worst, vilified and persecuted. Starting with Cassandra of ancient Greek mythology, working up through Winston Churchill's days in the wilderness warning of the dangers of Nazism, then Enoch Powell with his vision of a multi-cultural disintegration of our homeland and now the British National Party under the leadership of the only politician who always tells the unvarnished truth, Nick Griffin.
The problem of "grooming" was, to my certain knowledge, run out in a series of articles, video and audio presentations and leaflets by the BNP, at least FIVE YEARS AGO. Masses of information has been handed to the police with sworn witness statements and other evidence and has been completely ignored...until now, with the conviction of these two monsters.
It is possible to say, "Not all Muslims are Terrorists." By the same token, "Most terrorists are Muslims" is also true!

Peter Mullins, Liskeard, England

The boys do drugs and the girls do sex attitude is alive and well in some 'places of care' for children.
It is quite obvious that the resposible authorities are turning a blind eye to it and are showing no will to clean up this situation.
The public must be forgiven for the perceptiont that the lack of any seen proactive will on behalf of the authorites to do anything about it is a form of colluding with the exploitation of the children.
The public must be forgiven for the perception that many of the children who are unfortunate enough to not be enabled to live with their birth parents are being rendered into something called care, which doesn't seem to be enabled to care for the children, in many cases, very well at all.
This in a country which has one of the largest child care and protection industries in the western world!
The Every Child Matters Mantra as chanted by NuLabour is having a very hollow ring!

Darnthesafetynet, London ,

Firstly this is not about womans rights and their place in society as some are saying, this is about children.

Secondly this is nothing new, the BNP have been trying to highlight this for years, but of course if they say this they are racist. You can only bury your heads for so long.

Andy Haywood, Chesterfield, England

As an Indian female I am quite tempted to join the BNP as they seem to be the only organisation voicing peoples real and valid concerns. Strange is nt it, due to their so called 'racist' views and observations, I just call them accurate. Deportation and long term imprisonment is the only way forward for any ethnic minority who does not wish to behave themselves BETTER than the indiginous population. I know my family believes that . Wake up Britain!

Sunita Smith, London, UK

I agree with a few comments said above that the people who committed this crime are Muslims and not Hundus or sikhs. Please be brave and have the courage to say Muslim men , not Hindu or Chinese or Korean or Sikh.
I do not want to be associated with these people

sarang, basildon, essex

In reply to John Lynch: If you want to narrow down the people by race then do so with accuracy and describe them as Muslim Pakistani men.
Otherwise by generalising them as "Asian" you are doing a disservice to the majority of Asian people. The Indian population here in Leicester is probably one of the most peaceful and law-abiding communities of immigrants you can find in the UK.

If you want to generalise, then call these criminals "Men" and blame the whole male human population of the world.

P King, Leicester,

I live in Goa in India and here the newspapers (like yours) tend to portray us as paedophiles, crooks and drug dealers. Generally, British people who are resident here are looked at in a very negative light. Same problem in Portugal. One just has to look at the Madeliene tragedy. Just goes to show that we are all racists and constantly on the look out for scapegoats!

kevin gower, goa, india

The perpertrators are 100% Muslim and should not be termed Asian which is too broad a term and unfair on law abiding Hindu's and Sikh's et cetera

Carl Morphett, Dewsbury,

Jesus was Asian.......

david hicks, cumbria, uk

I know many Indian British girls who are far from being decent . It is an appalling hipocresy and because of their strict family rules towards men , they are usually the most desperate for sex with whoever and, wherever. So this "good Asian girl" is a myth. They are the worst when it comes to morals.In fact they are the most promiscuous.But everyone knows that right?

Alce, london, uk

Once again the proper approach to a problem is sacrificed on the bed of political correctness. While not personally a BNP supporter I don't see why an issue raised by them should be ignored by the establishment because it was the BNP that raised it. It is generally no secret that Muslim males place little value on women or young girls who do not cover up.
Well done The Times for reporting this story . It seems to have escaped most of the other quality papers. I wonder why?

J steele, Liverpool,

i think that the problem that a lot of people miss here is that many Desi/Freshie (legal immigrant men of Pakistani birth) have an almost unrealistic attitude to British culture.

Britain is perceived as the 'whore of Babylon' where all manner of excess can be found on every corner. This attitude extends to all women and the fact that teenage children are perceived as 'easy' too is shocking.

Children are thrilled to have notice taken of them. Children do experiment with drink and drugs. The two factors and in this particular case that the young girls involved were residents in a failing child care system, are a particular worrying state of our nation.

In The Times this week, we also read of the aquittal of two other Asian men for the murder of a 14 year old missing girl. (In this case the men were from Jordan and Iran). The news stories relating to the case had also highlighted a problem in "Paki Alley" where teenage girls were indulging in sexual activity in return for drugs

Michael West, Manchester, United Kingdom

I'm of Asian descent and am a Christian.Neither I nor any Christian in India marries cousins.I do come into contact with a lot of people in the wider Asian community.It is the situation that a large majority of the Asians have no respect for white women as they believe all white women have sexual relations with several men during their lifetime but hypocritically the same rule is not applied to men whether white or brown.It is especially the Muslim men who not only have no respect whatsoever for white women but see them as objects for sexual release.This reprehensible attitude is directed to all white women, even married.As far as Muslim men are concerned they are white so 'they are fair game' and second they are Christian so through sex a perverse sense of superiority of the islamic religion is gained.By the way unless very well educated, muslims believe all whites are Christians so each white women 'conquered' is a ' victory' for islam.

PV, Dundee, UK

On this and other serious national issues where they have been villified and shouted down as "ray-sists" by the lying, traitorous, venal PC brigade, ..... the British National Party have been telling the truth all along.

I'm sick of all this and I want MY country back!

The BNP will be getting my vote from now on.

Arthur, Swindon,

when using the term Asian- you need to be more specific

ie muslim - not christian, sikh or hindu

generally it is known that such things are not uncommon amongst certain cultures more than others

k singh, brum,

Ann Cryer's comments are irresponsible and without basis. This type of hysteria drives a wedge between communities. This type of crime is prevalant in all areas of society and nees to be dealt with by harsher sentences and parental accountability.

Hamad lone, ex-pat brit, Middle East

Firstly, I think it is strange that there is no concrete evidence cited in this article to prove that the problem is as wide-scale as it implies. Where are the other convictions?

Secondly, to stereotype the Asian community in this way is ludicrous, and from an MP we should expect better. Yes John, these two men were Asians - but, just to clarify, you're suggesting that because another Asian male says that the situation described is not the situation in his community he is guilty of "dishonesty"? I think we know where your political motivations lie.

Joanna, Bristol, UK

Quoting Ms. Cryer, "They ( asian men) do not seem to understand that there are white girls as moral and as good as Asian girls.”
The issue is not whether white or Asian girls are moral or good, it's whether underage girls should at all be exploited by men (then again, Asian or not).
Anyway, measuring a girl's morality by whether or not she goes out with different men in public, or having sex before marriage, is quite hypocritical.
One only has to go to any chatroom to find supposedly moral Asian or muslim girls, married or not, are just as willing as white girls to engage in cybersex, or take their clothes out for unknown audiences.
Besides, it's not quite valid to compare the pre-marital behaviour of these two types of girls, seeing that one group are not exactly free to do what they really want, being under great familial pressure (which can involve physical violence) to hold themselves to a 'moral' standaard that they may not really want to adhere to.

Gina, Brussels, Belgium

Ann Cryer has done a magnificent job in bringing this to public notice. But it does show how certain Muslims regard others as infidels and so can be treated in this way - I suspect it wouldn't matter whether or not the girls were white; it's more to do with their being non-Muslims. The sentences are far too short. Technically, this is rape given the girls were under 15. In addition they were both in care and hence more vulnerable than the usual under 16. The BNP may have also brought this problem up but Ann Cryer has done this in a much more balanced fashion. Her agenda appears to be about the welfare of the girls in question and have the Muslim community make sure that such behaviour is simply unacceptable and will be reported to the appropriate authorities. The BNP have a very different agenda.

Ian Burgess, Bristol,

In west having sex between male and female with consent is common with out marriage. Even it is forbade in christianity.
many white christian male are doing this practice there it is nt noted and objected instead it was noted for muslim asian males which is very rare case and sent them to prison due to hate of islam and muslims and it is double standered of west againest Islam. why not white christines male will be treated same way if they commit this action.

Irfan, Lahore, Pakistan

These men arie Pakistanis possibly British Pakistanis. They are not Indian , Chinese, Japanses, Korean, Filipino or Indonesian. Be specific. If they were French, Belgian, German, Russian you would not call them that not Europeans. Please treat Asians the same way.

oldasiahand, Guildford, UK

Please clarify this as it tends to be a problem in the Islamic community, not in the Hindu community. Please don't classify us all as just 'Asian', because I can assure you there are significant differences between us.

Dr S Patel, London,

Well said Roger.

Imagine if the cards were reversed!

Claire Brubaker, Derby,

Why is the word 'Asian' being used in this report? 'Asia' is a huge continent, and Chinese, Filipinos, Japanese, Indians, Sri Lankans, Koreans et al are part of it.
As is quite clear, the perpetrators of the crimes mentioned in the article are of Pakistani origin. Why do you want to subject the rest of the 'Asians' such torment, just because The Times wishes to be a bastion of political correctness, by not referring to men of Pakistani origin as Pakistanis, rather than 'Asian'?

Prasant, New York,

Who's going to vote BNP?!

I want my country back, London,

Thanks to the Times for revealing this story, notably not covered by the BBC at all. The 'liberal comfort zone' identified by the Tait and Jay reports really is now censoring major news issues. This is a dreadful phenomenon, a dark face of multi culturalism, and needs to be named and shamed now.

Hildebrand, Woodstock, UK

"Asian men" are obviously the problem.

So should I be warning my daughters against Chinese chefs, or Gurkha soldiers, or perhaps Filipino computer students?

Paul Middleton, Yorkshire,

No, Arindam, they are Asians. Until we accept that we will make no progress. Allow me to correct that -- until YOU accept that there will be no progress. It's too easy to brush things off by saying, "Oh, they're not really Asians". They ARE really Asians. There is too much denial among Asians in this country and it is merely a form of hypocrisy and dishonesty.

John Lynch, Whittington, UK

Why is it being dubbed an "Asian male" issue? As I can see it, it is muslim men who have trouble respecting white girls. Asians are also Hindus and Sikhs.

Ravi, Bangalore, India

Their are certain communities in this country where their view of equlity only applies to men - women are second class citizens with no right to equality and even hark back to the medieval/dark ages view of women as chattles.

However any one who dares to raise women's right issues in these communities is label and hounded as racist - perhaps the louder they shout the more they know they are in the wrong.

Unfortunately we have a week abologist Government that talks plenty and does little. Perhaps they should pass a law to make it illegal (it can join all the others that gather dust on the shelves and are seldom if ever used).

Dave Dee, Gretna, Scotland

I live in a mixed race community in west London.The problem isn't so much an 'asian' one but MALE.Unfortunately, with the culture we have in our society relating to casual sex, men try it on. Speaking as a white male, the problem is that young girls need to be taught from infancy the importance of morals. The problem with paedophilia at the moment is a white one (ie old white males).

Tyler Halifax, Uxbridge, UK

I would like to know why this article did not mention that the BNP has been raising the issue of Asian grooming for rather longer than "womens groups" and Anne Cryer. The party has presented bundles of evidence to West Yorkshire Police on this disgusting activity, and been ignored.

In other words, it's more important to police to avoid stirring up more trouble with Moslems, and to avoid being called racist, than it is to protect vulnerable young English girls (the word "white" is unacceptable - are Moslems "brown").

John Standing, Brighton, Sussex

As is so common nowadays, the whole Asian community gets tarnished by the activities of a few Muslim Pakistani men.

It is sloppy reporting as well as sloppy thinking by the MP that honest law abiding Indian and other Asians are lumped together with criminal Pakistani men.

P King, Leicester,

There is something seriously wrong with a society that has been brought to this point by politicians where such vile criminals are sentenced to only 5 years and 8 months. And everyone knows that by law they will automatically serve only 2 years 6 months, if they are not freed earlier for lack of space, or simply do "community service".

Beyond decades of imprisonment, they should never be capable of an erection for the rest of their life!

As for the cowardly authorities afraid to act for fear of being labeled "racist", they should be stripped of their office for nonfeasance, and imprisoned for malfeasance.

Bob Evans, Anaheim, California

I have never seen such insulting comments from a MP loaded to this extent with prejudice and lazy language.

In short, according to Ann Cryer, as an asian male, I am someone who is apparantly marries my first cousin or relative, is on the look out for sex and finally do not think much of white women.

Pathetic.

G Singh, London, UK

Yet another failure to really tackle a serious problem because of the prevaling political correctness in the UK with regard to race and islam. The problems of honour killings, the validity of asian/african medical qulaifications, and the low rate of economic participation by the muslim population is not being fully addressed.

There is even an element of political correctness in Ms Cryers statement - the problem of adverse male attitudes towards white women is not a predominately asian problem- but a muslim male problem. Buddists and Hindu's do not appear to have these attitudes.

Brian Roberts, Oxford, UK

This happens in most towns and cities, and it not just asian men. Where I live its predomitly while males. It just something society as a whole dosen't want to face up too, nobody is prepared to admit it, the truth is society is in denial of the extent of child exploitation dispite several charities which have in recent years tried to raise awareness, and the subjest being cover by the BBC Real Story program, but hey, I suppose it dosen't sell papers as focusing on one ethnic group is going to.

Andrew Birch, Medway,

please do not categorise them as Asians. they are beasts by any name.

arindam, calcutta, india

And so the BNP are proven right again. How long will it be before people stop vilifying this party, the only party prepared to tell the truth, and with the radical solutions required and actually listen to them?

Vincent Bate, Greenwich, London, England

So that'll be the situation the BNP were raising months ago, but for which they were shouted down and called racist liars...?

george rodger, glasgow , U.K.