To Rob, Tonbridge, UK:

According to Britain's own statistics:

"The Home Office figures - which exclude crimes involving air weapons - show the number of deaths and injuries caused by gun attacks in England and Wales soared from 864 in 1998-99 to 3,821 in 2005-06. That means that more than 10 people are injured or killed in a gun attack every day. " (Source: TimesOnline)


Where did you get your stats from Rob?

Scott, Durham, NC, USA

Well, Rob in Tonbridge, how do you explain the remarkably low murder rate in Switzerland where virtually every home contains not just rifles and pistols but fully-automatic assault rifles ?
Moral: be careful with the selective use of statistics.

James Carver, Portsmouth, UK

Murder rate in the USA is over 16,000 per annum (down from a mid-90s high of 24,000 pa). In the UK it's 800. The USA has 5 times the population of the UK, so the per capita murder rate in the USA is 4 times that of the UK.

Total firearms deaths in a single year (current statistics) in the USA run at around 28,000 (including suicides and accidental shootings). In the UK they run at 160, all causes. The US rate is therefore THIRTY FIVE TIMES the rate in the UK, per capita.

So yeah, it obviously makes sense to deregulate in the UK...Not (and I'm speaking as someone who was *against* the post-Hungerford blanket ban on handguns).

Rob, Tonbridge, UK

Scott - Durham NC -
The system you advocate for gun control is, broadly speaking, what we have at present in the UK. The problem is that the government keeps changing the goalposts by changing the status of various categories of firearm. Thus, for example, it is now virtually impossible to own a cartridge-firing handgun but, subject to licensing and background checks etc, a cap-and-ball revolver such as was used in the American Civil Way back in the 1860s is permissible. I have yet to hear of anyone being unlawfully killed (or injured) by someone using such a weapon which would seem to show that properly licensed firearm owners are no threat to anyone - except to the muggers, rapists and vilent intruders.....

David Thomas, Burnham, UK

High level/mass immigration creates these effects - see NY or LA post the 1965 immigration act, crime spiralled upwards shockingly and these cities were hellholes right through the 1970s and early 80s.

Now Londons murder rate is escalating upwards in the same way, and with similar causes.

Mr B. Clamp, liverpool, uk

Four Years prison for carrying a knive? I ve never heard about such silly methods to fight crime and violence - except in the medieval. This threats are of course for everybody as I suppose. Haha, unbelievable!

fmj, Vienna, Austria

Now you know why we carry guns in the US...try getting into a knife fight with me and you'll get a cap in the head...

Pauly, New York, USA

Thanks U.K. for demonstrating so vividly that gun availability not the problem! A study by Harvard Law in the U.S. demonstrates rather completely that allowing citizens to arm and defend themselves is only exceeded in importance by locking up violent criminals! Do an internet search for "WOULD BANNING FIREARMS REDUCE
MURDER AND SUICIDE?
A REVIEW OF INTERNATIONAL AND
SOME DOMESTIC EVIDENCE" by DON B. KATES AND GARY MAUSER. Here is an illuminating excerpt (pg27) backed up by statistics from the U.S. and Europe:
"On their face, Tables 1, 2, and 3 and the comparisons gleaned from them suggest that gun ownership is irrelevant, or has little relevance, to murder. ...As Hans Toch, a senior American criminologist who 35 years ago endorsed handgun prohibition and confiscation, but then recanted based on later research, argues “it is hard to explain that where firearms are most dense, violent crime rates are lowest and where guns are least dense, violent crime rates are highest."

Alan Aipperspach, Winslow, Arizona, USA

Rising knife crime was the plan. It was always understood that criminals, deprived of guns, would turn to knives, but it was felt that knife crime was less threatening than gun crime. Had the government been against criminal violence in general -- rather than criminal violence using a particular kind of weapon -- they would have focused their efforts on eliminating the criminals rather than the guns.

Frank Silbermann, Memphis, Tennessee (USA)

Andrej, Ljubljana, Slovenia

Yes, you do bring up the one point with which we have trouble in the States, that being the easy availablity of weapons to undesirables.

Consider, the UK already has much tighter restrictions on gun control, but it also has a smaller population and a much more regulated society. Thus, I would be surprised if it would be too difficult to implement a strict licensing scheme which would include extensive background checks, waiting periods, and firearms training. The problem in the States is the availablity of "Saturday Night Specials," those mass produced cheap small caliber handguns available from disreputable unscrupulous dealers to almost anyone.

The British authorites would have the abililty to design a system corectly from the beginning: to force checks on applicants but also to limit the licensing of gun dealerships to a small number of approved and highly-regulated establishments. Ammunition purchases should also be highly regulated.

Scott, Durham, NC, USA

To Ben in Folkestone - "gun control is historic in this country".
Well, yes it is - but only since 1920; before then there was no requirement for anyone to have a licence of any kind. Funny though: gun crime was rare.....
As World War I was ending there was a government scheme to
give those who had bought War Bonds a captured weapon as some token of gratitude - a Mauser rifle for modest purchases
right up to a field gun for large. The scheme was scrapped - why? Because of the Russian revolution of 1917 and the new perception of populations as a threat to established governments.
The undeclared policy from then on was - and is - to reduce to an absolute minimum the availability of arms to the population
- a prophylactic against armed revolution no less. Of course such a policy is too shameful to be publicly declared ("We don't trust you") so it is advanced under the banner of "public safety".

J H Clay, Nottingham, UK

All you have to do is look 2 inches down the web page to where it says "Dangerous prisoners may get early release."

The police CAN NOT protect you. When you are attacked, only YOU will be present. YOU need to tools to do the job. A loud scream of terror isn't sufficient. Not even if you scream in an Oxbridge accent. Britain's "wait for a cop" philosophy just encourages crime. As, of course, does the "catch and release" policy referred to earlier. Civilized but unsafe. Benefits the thugs, though.

Joe Olson, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA

To those Brits who want a change for the better: I'd recommend you immigrate to the other side of the lake...except that -our- immigration process is the U.S. is extremely ludicrous and basically broken. If you can get in, please do so...and move out to the Rocky Mountain / Midwestern states where crime is minimal and protecting yourself is encouraged.

To those Brits who think harsher sentences for carrying a knife is prudent, who think carrying guns (or anything) for protection is a recipe for disaster, and who really believe American cities are more violent: Please do some research. What were British gun and crime laws like 100 years ago? What was crime like back then? Which American cities are the safest, and the most dangerous? What are their weapon and crime laws like? You'll be surprised when your preconceptions get destroyed.

Greg, Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

Scott, Durham, NC, USA,

I think your idea is brilliant, I just don't understand one point... "The answer is to increase the parity of the public to that of the attacker by giving the attacked an equal chance of defending itself through the use of much greater force than that used by the criminal," How would you prevent criminals from getting hold of guns?

I'm afraid that Trevor, Suffolk, UK has a point... the statistics say having more guns didn't exactly solve the crime problems of the US. Furthermore, howmany guns would be stolen every day? Howmany reported stolen and sold on? Is that not a problem in the US? Besides, when everyone, including criminals, has guns, what do you do then? Arm the "honest " people with missile launchers?

Andrej, Ljubljana, Slovenia

The Brits don't need a revolution per se. They need what must happen here if the lowlifes ever tell us to turn in or register our most basic right, or tell us we can' t defend ourselves, even in our own homes - "Liberal" season. The Brits didn't start killing their "Liberals" when they were told to turn their guns in and now they're paying the price. The "Liberal" scum will be made to pay here.

Barry Bright, Taylor County, CSA, Kentucky

i went to see 'The Bourne Ultimatum' at the cinema on saturday night. Fantastic film. very violent, many men graphically beaten to death. This film was a certificate 12!
now i'm no prude, but i really don't think this is helping the situation.

kirsty smith, Crewe Cheshire,

Two thoughts:

"An armed society is a polite society."

"When knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have knives." What a riduculous idea to prevent the public from being able to defend itself from yobs and punks. The right of self defense / self preservation is an innalienable right which no government may legislate away. There are no excepions.

Doug, Phoenix, AZ, USA

ok Gun control is historic in this country, In the US the opposite is true, different cultures, Gun realted deaths in the US (admittedly 1995 figures) about 50 times that of the UK per capita, however Knife crime the reverse is true. different cultures different tools used in crime. criminals will always find a tool to use. the police need to be re-enpowered and the judicial system not hamstrung by lack of prision facilities as well as looking at the causes. as to less poor than 50 years ago, the wealth gap has increased, it is not absolute wealth that drives crime but relative wealth. Finally the jobs that used to be done by the less academic were killed off by Thatcher and Major in the 80's and early 90's Blair and Brown just didn't bring them back. So more police, with more powers based on common sense, and more employment granting a stake in society. but these are not quick soundbites so don't hold your breath.

Ben, folkestone, uk

This is a very telling article, a damning indictment of the state of our nation. Society has been breaking down over the last decade; recently UNICEF 'awarded' this country LAST place in a league table for child well-being across 21 industrialised countries. We are now officially declared the most violent nation in Europe; Britain is worst in Europe for teenage pregnancy rates. Women in the UK are the worst binge drinkers in the WORLD. The list goes on and on...
Nevertheless, the government have an endless stream of well-rehearsed glib excuses to play down the facts.
Wakey-wakey, Gordon Brown and company ! Stop living in denial and DO something ( preferably not involving another tax if you could arrange that ? )

Rick, Greater London, England

This comes up time & time again. When will the penny drop- politicians don't care a damn. They have Police protection wherever they go, courtesy of the taxpayer. It's the public at large being robbed, burgled, killed, harrassed and mugged. It doesn't affect them. They do know, however, that prison is expensive, so they have no interest in keeping serial criminals off the streets, because we are victims, not they. I fully agree with John in CA that law abiding folk should be armed- never has it been more necessary. I am 37, and have never comitted an offence, and have no intention of doing so. I am not violent, but I will now carry a rounders bat in my bag when I walk to work for my protection. If caught with it, the Police will pursue a conviction for possession of an offensive weapon relentlessly, but I value my life more than the risk of a conviction.

John R, Chelmsford, Essex

When New Labour promised to be ' tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime', they lied. When Blair said there were '24 hours left to save the NHS', he lied. When this government said their number one priority was ' Education, education, education', they lied. When the Labour cabinet warned ominously that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, they lied.
Can you detect a trend here ???

Rick, Greater London, England

I quote:

"This challenges the notion that there is a policing or punishment solution to this problem. Success in tackling knife-related violence will require a concerted strategy to deal with the causes of violence, of which the social antagonisms caused by poverty and inequality are key.”

So kinfe crime has doubles and we are back to "society is to blame". Peoples faces are beeing slashed open, they are beeing stabbed, traumatised and we are back to "society is to blame".

Well how about this? Society is indeed to blame, for allowing itself to being duped into accepting that crimes as horrific as slashing someobody's face with a knife will go virtually unpunished, probably not even investigated. How about considering the possibility that lack of punishment is an incentive to commit more crime, fuelled by the sense of power that comes with having gotten away with it. So how about sticking violent thugs behind bars where they belong and stop feeling sorry for them.

alan, s,

You may be taking your lead from America. The majority of violent crimes over here are committed by children with absent fathers. Since we took the shame out of having a baby without the benefit of marriage, out of wedlock birth have rocketed to astounding proportions. Fully 76% of African-American babys are born to unwed mothers. Growing up in a home without a father figure and male influence leads to kids banding together in a gang and figuring out what it means to be a man. They see their life as having little value and then the do not value other persons lives. So shooting and stabbing in their world are seen as no less than acceptable. Gone is shame, personal responsibility, as well as the government has taken away parents ability to disipline kids... and you get what we got. Is there an answer? Not in my lifetime will we get back to the world where you went to church, learned values and guidelines, and learned the Golden Rule. Good Luck.

Alan, Tracy, Ca

If you do a really worthwhile survey you would most probably find out which sector of society is carrying and using knives. This would be too pc for this lot of New Labour liars.

Fred, Dubai, Dubai

The Law needs to change, and quickly. Anyone caught carrying a knife, even if it's for self-protection, should get 5 years in prison.
Maybe if the government put more regular Policemen/women on our streets, the need for people to go out tooled up will decline.
But then, we don't have the luxury of having 24 hour protection like those we chose to represent us.

Paul Mcgoochan, Bury St Edmunds, England

Trevor has a point....but the problem in the UK with guns and knives is that the wrong people are carrying them ! Not for nothing are criminals the greatest advocates of "gun control" - they feel (and are) much safer from retaliation when the law-abiding are effectively disarmed. The more thoughtful senior police officers are now prepared to admit that the 1997 Firearms Acts were a mistake. The result of emotion supplanting dispassionate analysis and argument.

Lewis Thomas, High Wycombe, UK

A Home Office spokesman said: “Public protection is our top priority" . Sadly it isn't , if it was then the mass unrestricted and unchecked immigration of people from cultures more likely to use knives and guns into Britain would be top of the list. The Government are trying to fix something they broke in the first place by turning a largely law abiding land into something resembling the chaos that we used to see only overseas.

graham casey, PERTH, australia

It would be interesting to see if the increased immigration has any correlation with the increase in knife crime.

Roger Parkes, Tunbridge Wells, England

The United Kingdom is a gun-grabber's paradise. Isn't this the same society which, just a few years ago, famously prosecuted some poor fellow for shooting a home invader/robber? Of course, the public officials are shocked by the rise in knife crimes, simply because they were fools to begin with. In their relentless quest for the highest form of cluelessness, why don't they ban knives? Then we'll see an identical story two years hence which will merely substitute "pencil" for "knife".

William Dye, Glencoe, Missouri USA

To Trevor in Suffolk- what on earth makes you think the US has more crime than the UK??? For example New York is far safer than London. The ability of US police to catch criminals is also exponentially higher than in the UK. I know where I'd rather live. To John W, your kind of 'hey, kids, I know where you're coming from' hoodie-hugging analysis misses the point. Every generation has that conflinct, but previous generations have not had the levels of wealth, and overall crime that we have now. The criminals know that the likelihood of going to jail, given the 5% chance they are caught, is near nil. There is no fear of punishment that other, much poorer generations, have had.

John R, Chelmsford, Essex

The answer to preventing muggins and street crimes perpatrated with weapons is NOT enacting more laws designed to disarm the public and make them even MORE vulnerable to attack. The answer is to increase the parity of the public to that of the attacker by giving the attacked an equal chance of defending itself through the use of much greater force than that used by the criminal.

I can never understand why there is a certain element in every country which feels that individuals should not be allowed to protect themselves with force since crime will be solved by, "dealing with the underlying causes of violence, fear, and insecurity." That is the most INANE statement and a great explanation to tell a victim's spouse and children when they learn their parent will never be comming home again following a mugging. It is also a most ARROGANT statement.

Criminals will be criminals. Rather than disarm a population, lawful citizens should have all means possible to protect themselves.

Scott, Durham, NC, USA

Well we felt the need to ban the sale and ownership of handguns. Given our risk averse authorities, perhaps we should do the same for knives? Or at least only permit the sale of round end ones like those we use on aircraft.

David Jenkins, Weybridge, UK

The answer to preventing muggings perpatrated with weapons is NOT enacting more laws designed to disarm the public and make it even MORE vulnerable to attack. The answer is to increase the parity of the public to that of the attacker by giving the attacked an equal chance of defending itself through the use of much greater force than that used by the criminal, and the criminal a pause for thought. Tight control of handgun purchases and permits for their concealed carry prevent undesirable elements from getting them.

I can never understand why there is a certain bizzare element in every country which feels that the public should not be allowed to protect itself with force since crime will somehow be solved by, "dealing with the underlying causes of violence, fear, and insecurity." That is the most INANE statement and a great explanation to tell a victim's spouse and children when they learn a parent will never come home again following a mugging. It is also quite ARROGANT.

Scott, Durham, NC, USA

Trevor (Suffolk) says we don't want the knife-crime problem to be replaced by an even bigger gun-crime problem (than we already have). True, but why is it assumed that permitting the law-abiding to own guns would lead to increased gun crime ?
In the past century few gun crimes have been committed by licensed firearm owners (I believe the total for the 20th century is less than 150 - hardly a major social problem). Gun ownership by the law-abiding increases the risk and uncertainty factor for muggers, rapists and violent intruders. Some of them might even be killed...but then they chose to lead a life of violent crime and are the authors of their own destruction.

David Thompson, Slough, UK

Yet if I am atacked by someone with a knife it is my perception that if I put up a fight the police (if they happen to be interested which one may never be sure of these days) are just as likely to arrest me as my attacker.

Michael, London, England

We are marching towards lawlessness and we are now having to look to defend ourselves. What an indictment of this Government's lack of control and lack of concern for the young. Where are the jobs to keep these youngsters off the streets because that is the problem? Mr Blair and Mr Brown have a lot to answer for.

Judy , Liverpool, england

Is everyone too brainwashed by the religion of multiculturalism to say it? The UK doesn't have a crime problem, it has an IMMIGRATION problem. Adding to that problem, and largely causing it, is a government that appears to be openly trying to destroy your traditional culture.

Much like us Yanks, you Brits are in desperate need of a revolution.

Robert, Santa Barbara, California/USA

To Martin, Surrey.
Police are using their stop and search powers. The unfortunate fact is that knife point robberies, in London at any rate, are almost exclusively commited by young black males, whilst a high proportion of such victims are also young black males. The problem then starts when police officers increase the use of their stop and search powers, based on an offenders profile, are then accused of racially discriminating behaviour and disproportionality by stopping and searching such potential offenders. The police are in a 'no win' situation.

phil, Sutton, Surrey

"If you Brits allowed anyone to pack heat, you wouldn't have a knife attack problem over there. One good .357 slug takes care of a punk wielding a knife pretty quickly and fairly permanently."

So, instead of being robbed at a knife point, we would be robbed at a gun point? Great.

Simon, London, U.K.

"Don't bring a knife to a gun fight." When laws are passed that restrict weapons the ones left unprotected are the law-abiding citizens. It is an amazing deterrent when law-abiding citizens retain the right to be armed. For example, I have the freedom to carry a weapon or not carry a weapon. The bad guy doesn't know if I am or not. Can someone argue a more common sense approach to stopping random acts of violence than good guys having a right to defend themselves and their families?

Lane, Eagle River, USA/Alaska

Has the British society realised that all these crime rise is a result of a social breakdown? The UK society needs to reestablish atleast a few of its moral values that it so willingly dumped a few decades ago for the sake of ''modernisation'' in order to avoid a Chicago situation.

Andreas Andreou, Nottingham,

Not that our useless government care, it doesn't affect them and as usual their response is too little to late.
We need really punitive action against this scum. Sentence for possessing a knife without a very good reason 10 years no remission, using it in a robbery 20years and if you kill somebody THROW WAY THE KEY.

jeff cox, London, England

The CCJS statement is a load of PC twaddle.
Social antagonisms my backside ! In the 1950's people generally, and teenagers in particular, were FAR poorer than they are today. But they didn't go around stabbing people.
There is a simple solution to the knife problem - 10 years without remission for anyone carrying a knife without lawful excuse. 20 years without remission for anyone using one or trying to use one in a confrontation.
And build new prisons to keep them in.

Yes, it will be expensive, but the first function of any government is the protection of life, liberty, and property. (Though you'd never believe it with the shower we've got right now on both sides of the House.)

If the government is unwilling to protect us, we must have restored to us the right to protect ourselves - for example by a legal right to carry a pepper spray - without some out-of-touch Judge prattling on about "taking the law into our own hands".

Trevor, Suffolk, UK

this is a clearly identifiable problem and this government appears to be doing nothing about it whatsoever and not even commenting on the situation.

we are clearly taking our way of life now from america when we should be aligning our way of life with that of the rest of europe. this country is loosing its identity very quickly.

the reason the police are no longer respected in this country is that the average person has no contact personally with a policeman on the beat. the police are cacooned in cars and are seen as issuers of tickets for minor traffic and parking offences

it is about time that the 'slent majority' stood up and said 'enough is enough' and make our feelings felt and not sit back and do nothing. if the politicians won't do anything let the decent people of this country stand up and demand action.

richard davidson, arundel, west sussex england

Those who run this country react to its major problems like Brian the snail running a marathon. They first massage the figures to tell us its all ok, then once the real truth gets out its only a blip, they hope. Britain has become a country soft at the top and hard at the bottom. The deterrents in place for law breakers are a joke, the sentences are even more pathetic hence the position we now find ourselves in. It is a terrifying prospect to be living in a country where so many young people are growing up lawless, unguided, misguided and yet we appear to be poised again to vote those who have created such problems back into power.

stuart, london,

We do need tough sentencing, and less policially-correct inhibition on police 'stop and search', but a bigger impact would be made addressing the motivation of kids.
Schooling, with its focus on the academic, alienates many non-academic children and leaves them with a sense of failure, little self-worth and scant respect for a society which has committed them to years of purposeless boredom.
Schooling needs radical change to allow children much more choice – to ensure that as well as life and work skills, they develop fulfilling leisure activities, whether they be sport, music, dance, drama, DIY, fishing – whatever – to displace the anti-social and criminal behaviour.
We have children in school for a large part of their early lives – what a missed opportunity!

John W, Altrincham, UK

Thank you, John of Hollywood. But we in the UK would prefer that our knife problem was not replaced by an even bigger gun problem than we already have.
In any case, America has no place lecturing the UK on street crime, since you have a far greater problem in that respect, and it is mainly your USA street gangs that our misguided young men are copying.

Trevor, Suffolk, UK

This increase in Knife related crime shows the Government is going soft on the criminals. Police Officers - use your powers of stop and search, make the criminals scared!!

Martin, Surrey,

If you Brits allowed anyone to pack heat, you wouldn't have a knife attack problem over there. One good .357 slug takes care of a punk wielding a knife pretty quickly and fairly permanently.

John, Hollywood, CA, USA