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From The Times
August 22, 2007

Chindamo stays – and I’m proud of it

The verdict on this man is a mark of civilised society

Alice Miles

I would think, said the Home Office Minister Tony McNulty, that given the “serious and heinous nature” of Learco Chindamo’s crime, “the individual has forfeited any right to domicile in the UK”.

Which only goes to prove why ministers should rarely be allowed to interfere in the judicial process. For the implication of Mr McNulty’s remark is that anyone who has committed a sufficiently serious offence should be deported. Deported to where, I am not sure: much as it might suit our politicians, there are no more Van Diemen’s Lands awaiting chained and starving British convicts.

Chindamo is clearly British, having lived here since he was 6 years old. He speaks no Italian, appears to have no connections with Italy other than the accident of citizenship, and grew up in North London. To try to pretend that he is not a British problem, grown on British streets, fostered through a British education system, is a further abrogation of responsibility by the Government. Would that it were so simple; would that we could just deport this social problem, Mr McNulty, sweep it under an imaginary Italian carpet.

It is far trickier than that, a fact recognised yesterday by Frances Lawrence, widow of the headmaster, Philip, who was murdered by Chindamo 12 years ago. Avoiding the pat certainty of the politician, Mrs Lawrence, on the day of what would have been her husband’s 60th birthday, made what she admitted was a confusing plea for nothing less than an upending of the modern justice system in favour of what she called “humanity”.

She conceded that, had she been a judge on the appeal panel, she too would probably have decided that Chindamo had a right to stay in Britain. The law (a combination of human rights legislation and EU immigration regulations, on both of which Chindamo won) is clear. Yet the politicians have wrongly given the impression that Chindamo would be deported on release. Why? Because it’s an easy headline in the face of public hysteria over youth crime, immigration, and in particular the deportation of foreign prisoners. But Chindamo was always going to be a different case to the adult asylum-seeker who robs, rapes or murders.

Having admitted that Chindamo probably has the right to remain in the UK, having admitted that much of her furiously devastated reaction is due to shock because she was led to believe otherwise, and having so admirably said that she wishes him well and a positive life – “it’s never given me any pleasure to see a young man locked away” – Mrs Lawrence added that she wanted “humanity” to overturn the law in this instance. “In this case it’s to try and say the law is not always what must be our context; humanity is more important . . . people feel so confused, that their needs and fears are second place, squashed by some bureaucratic, insensate law.”

Mrs Lawrence has been, unforgivably, the cog in the machine. Having lost her husband and raised his four children alone against the backdrop of growing public fears over teenage knife crime, she was abused again by a government publicity system that lied over what was likely to happen to her husband’s killer on his release. One can understand why she feels squashed by insensate bureaucracy.

But to draw the conclusion that “humanity” should therefore override the rule of law is, however understandable, wrong. The rule of law developed to put humanity on a legal, equal footing; it is an attempt, however imperfect at times, to deliver humanity objectively to everyone. The decision to allow Chindamo to remain in the UK is in fact a perfect expression of that humanity, and I feel proud to live under a system that ultimately took the decision to allow him to stay.

The alternative – to allow subjective feeling to overrule rational law – is to move back towards the days of crude local justice, of public stocks and floggings and hangings; to the Salem witchhunts, to the boatloads of convicts headed for Van Diemen’s Land.

Mrs Lawrence said yesterday that she didn’t understand how the Human Rights Act, which she had “always been a staunch advocate of”, as an exemplar of how human beings could live together equally and kindly, has now “allowed someone who destroyed a life to pick and choose how he wants to live his”. But it hasn’t.

Chindamo isn’t picking and choosing. For a start, he hasn’t yet been allowed out of jail, and won’t be until he is considered no longer a danger to the public. The very decision to release him would rule him out of deportation under a law that allows it only for those who are a fundamental threat to society and national security. And he will be on licence, subject to return to jail with any misdemeanour. To refuse him his rights at that point would be to deny the possibility of rehabilitation or, to use the Christian language that Mrs Lawrence said society should stop shying away from, redemption.

The fault here is with the politicians who forced Chindamo to use the human rights and other European legislation to fight for the right to stay in the country that, like it or not, is his home – and who wrongly gave the impression that they would be able to deport him. “We’ve always been given the impression that he would be deported and so I suppose that was part of the whole justice system for me, this was what would happen,” said Mrs Lawrence. “If you see things being dealt with properly, that can alleviate a lot of anxiety.”

I can understand a little of that anxiety. I can certainly understand why it must feel as though the system has gone wrong. But it hasn’t. It’s gone exactly right. And it’s the people who led the Lawrence family to believe that it would go otherwise, and who are still doing so with gung-ho promises of “robust” appeals, who should be explaining themselves today.

Thank you for an excellent article. I have never been able to understand why it would be okay for released murderers to prey on Italians but not British. Perhaps there is more than a silver of xenophobia in the minds of those who want him sent back to Italy. Alice Miles did not make one comment on the sentence in her column,. She simply argued that a crimnal should be released into British socliety not Italian society. I have no doubt that the same people calling for him to be deported would raise hell if crimnals from Britiain who were coming to the end of their sentences abroad were deported here.

Richard Brennan, Oxford, Britain

It wasn't a very civilised death for the victim, and perhaps you could explain your pride personally to the victim's family. After that, perhaps you could leave the UK - people with distorted values like yourself have created a society in which violence thrives. Unfortunately it does not affect the chattering classes to the same extent as those less financially able to choose where they live.

Tony G, Harrogate,

Come on, Alice. I somehow think that if the actions of that fella had affected your loved ones, you wouldn't be holding that view. The way you understand a society being "civilized" is unusual. A civilized society according to what you imply is one with a virtually non existent penal system. In such a society the illicit actions of the criminal are always rationalized and the punishment amounts to just a slap in the wrist because of that rationalization. It is like that because civilized people do not resort to punishment since it is perceived as cruel and uncivilized. Well, if that's what a civilized society is all about, you can rest assured that those sitting on the fence won't hesitate to do wrong. They wouldn't not even for a minute. The next thing you know the proportion of the population being affected by crime skyrockets.

Richard L, Hannover, FRG

You're right Alice, he shouldn't be deported. He should instead be dangling from the end of 6 feet of hemp!

craig pond, stoke-on-trent, England

Chindamo should have been sentenced to spend the rest of his natural life in prison, and the key thrown away. This country has long since become a cesspit of crime thanks to a limp-wristed, hand-wringing Labour government obsessed with the so-called human rights of the criminal rather than the victims of crime.

christopher pelly, Parkstone, England

Alice, sorry to say it but you're a silly woman. The much bigger picture is that we hear nothing - nothing - about the rights of the innocent, vulnerable or pro-social. We only ever hear about rights for criminals, terrorists, extremists, immigrants and failed asylum-seekers. that's why people are jaded and cynical. The more wrong you do in the UK, the more rights you are accorded and their legal defence is always freely accessible. If you don't fall into any of the dubious or outright anti-social categories, rights are not yours. That's why we all know about the rights of this killer, the rights of the Afghan hijackers who threatened their victims with guns, knives & grenades, the rights of Abu Hamza's wife and family, the rights of Maxine Carr, and on and on. Who - no, really, Alice - stop and ask yourself - who can name their victims? who mentions their rights? It really, really, really has to change.

cath, london,

Surely it is time we scrapped all Law except that law which protected the majority of society from those who fail to realise that with rights come responsibilities.
Punishment not rehabilitation should be the purpose of sentencing. Unfortunately we now believe the criminal has the rights that the society he (she) has offended against gives to those who obey its laws for the protection of the many.
The criminal must lose all rights during the period of their sentence.
Only those who accept the "Rule of Law" can be entitled to the protection of it .

Howard, Basildon,

How about all other countries deporting the thousands of British criminals banged up in their prisons? There are far more released criminals from Britain in other EU countries than the other way around. The aggression of the paralytic consciousness of some of the commentators here is not surprising. Poor fascist things they believe in the purity, and the attendant to it righteousness of their nation -as if virtue comes with a birth certificate- so that they can feel justified in hating everything that happens to cross their path. Although one understands the grief of the Lawrence widow I wonder whether she reserves application of her Christian beliefs (in which radical forgiveness holds the top spot) only for, presumably since she is a devout Catholic, attacking women who chose not to be mothers.

Harriet Hall, London, U.K.

Stay...he should be locked up for life preferably in Italy.

I despair of any human rights issues when anyone has murdered another human being.

Anarchy is on our doorsteps and it is going to come from the law abiding people of this country. We really have had enough of soft sentences and phrases like "hug the huddies" and "tough on crime".

Ken, Bristol,

Maybe when the laws of this country and the fools who make them take into account the feelings and needs of the law abiding citizens of this country the vigilante hyseteria will abate. Until such time I do not need overpaid underbrained hacks teaching me what is right and what is wrong.

Rufusgrey, Brentwood,

For such a 'heinous' crime, a life sentence should mean life.
Parole could be considered no earlier. Simple, really.

Rick, Greater London, England

And when he's out of jail, let's hand over lots of lovely welfare benefits to the poor thing

Tim, Bangkok, Thailand

I agree completely. If he has served his sentence, then that should be the end of it. The hysterical nature of many of the comments here only serves to show why they, and politicians, should be kept away from the judicial process as Alice Miles states.

M Jones, Brighton, UK

What is the point of even discussing the prospect of this murderers deportation if whilst in the EU he can walk straight back into the UK..
This is a red herring. He really should be in jail for another 20 years at least.

Steve Byrne, Christchurch, UK

Having read so many comments I have to write again. I am dismayed so many hangem and floggem individuals remain among us. Perhaps these troglodytes would welcome a return to the thumbs up or down summary judgements of the Romans!

The abuse being heaped upon Alice and the Tribunal is unbelievable. The latter had no choice but to come to the decision that it did as Mrs Lawrence has acknowledged. The fault (if there be any at all) is, as usual, with the politicians who make the laws and not the judiciary. There is an argument that 'life' should mean imprisonment for life; but that is not the law or the issue. I am grateful that I live in a Country where the rule of law, and not hysteria, prevails. The law says he cannot be deported. End of story!

If Chindamo had been born in UK then, all other things being equal, he would be released into the community at due time and that would have been that. None of this abusive nonsense about hoping he would live next door to Alice etc.

Maurice S., London,

I disagree with the comments made condemning Ms Miles' article. It is a rationale and well though out response to a difficult and emotive issue. She does not discount the grief of Phillip Lawrence's widow, or make an impassioned defence of the criminal. Alice Miles presents a logical discussion of the considerations one needs to take when commenting on this situation. It is right and just that the law bw upheld and furthermore, as Mrs Lawrence herself observed the judge made the correct decision. People who want Chindarmo deported would do well to remember the case of the paedophile who was deported to Britain (his birthplace) from Australia. There was an outcry here at the time, we did not want him! We are a nation of hypocrites who now wish to inflict our criminals on the Italians - well if that were to happen then we would be opeining our shores up to all British criminals who reside abroad. Do we want that?

Nicola, Hampshire,

Quote
"I would think, said the Home Office Minister Tony McNulty, that given the “serious and heinous nature” of Learco Chindamo’s crime, “the individual has forfeited any right to domicile in the UK”.

Wouldn't Britain be more worthy of consideration as a serious country if this senior representative of its public order ministry had said something like

'... the individual has forfeited any right to domicile on Earth, and the British government pledges to make every effort to bring about his removal from the planet at the soonest possible opportunity."

L.W., Montevideo, Uruguay

As I understand it, the case turned on EU law and the Human Rights Act was only a secondary feature. Based on EU law, it seems that the case was always doomed to fail, as would be any appeal. However, Mrs Lawrence was told by Jack Straw that the murderer of her husband would be deported (he said this on the Today programme yesterday). I agree with Alice Miles that the government is playing politics, trying to get a good headline, at the expense of Mrs Lawrence and her feelings. How disgraceful is that? Much of the media has also been guilty of misleading reporting, and the BBC news headlines yesterday concentrated on the HRA when they knew that the main issue was EU law. No wonder journalism is losing any respect it might once have enjoyed.

Cathy, Bristol, uk

I agree with Alice Miles. She´s right. Chindamo is British. It´s no good pretending that he isn´t.

It´s no good confusing established principles of nationality with the concept of justice. If Mrs Lawrence´s legal advisers have given her hope on this basis, they were very wrong to do so.

If Chindamo had been Anglo-Saxon, what would we want to do - er - deport him to the Isle of Wight? Lots of people are being murdered by young thugs every day on British streets and in British homes by British children having an ancestry in Britain going back to Stonehenge. Does that make it better? Deal with the law, and with justice. Get the law changed. Make people pay bitterly for their crimes. (Here I differ from Alice Miles). Hang 'em and flog 'em if the case is proved beyond reasonable doubt. No remission without new evidence to warrant a review. Rigorous imprisonment. Long stences. Anything we can think of within reason to deliver justice. Bring back victim-centred justice.

cerronevado, Malaga, Spain

Alice Miles may be delighted by ridiculous judicial verdicts like the one on Chindamo. And it may well be that the judges have done their job correctly applying the law as written. There is something rotten at the core of the Human Rights legislaqtion as Mrs Lawrence suspects though she has supported the intentions.
In our system parliament makes the laws judges interpret them. What we need is a decent commonsense government which legislates sensibly in accordance with the wishes of the mass of the people, not idiosyncratic commentators like Alice Miles.

Dr J Findlater , Carnforth,

With such a philanthropic and altrusitic nature, surely Ms. Miles would be keen to offer Chindamo shelter not just in her country but in her own home as well, assuming he is released from prison ?

Rick, Greater London, England

Let's face facts. We glorify violence in the media. Our country invades other countries for their resources and have done for centuries. There is a term collateral damage which dehumanises people's suffering. Until there is a mind-shift away from "might is right" then honest, decent peaceful people will continue to pay the price and the safely ensconced will intellectualise the merits of such evil.

Jan Evans, London,

Alice - you'll probably be the last one left in this country so turn the light off before you go.

That way it'll be harder for the rest of the worlds murderers, rapists and thieves to spot you.

Bry Barnes, Somerset, Uk

Does Alice Miles believe all this or is she the agent provocateur? The removal of Chindamo seems to be a 'no-brainer ' unless you actually believe that his rights predominate over those of the person he killed. This is the perfect exemplar of a seemingly liberal cause erupting and the rush of bien pensant opinion to support the thesis, whatever it may be; a club for the unrepentantly smug. Has Alice taken the mantle of saviour of the soul in some quasi-religious phantasmagoria? Her picture seems to portray a transcendental state, euphoria. The loss of formal religion seems to have emboldened some to saintliness. Having denied religion and its ability to forgive and suffer, they have written their own litany, worshiping at the altar of peer group sensibility, professing their being 'more saintly than you', but without responsibility; like some rather grotesque Harry Enfield sketch. Britain’s’ are not to be sacrificed to prove her hypothesis; we are against using animals for research.

Malcolm Turner, Alsager, England

Patronising drivel. Perhaps Ms Miles should imagine how she would feel if one of her kids or other loved one was stabbed to death. Deportation may not be the way forward but 12 years is laughable. 'Gang culture' is not responsible for this murder Learco Chindamo is and he should pay a hefty price for it as have the Lawrence family.

Charlie , London, UK

Enough of this nonsense.

Bring back the Death Penalty & have done with it !

John Rogers, Vnhedo, Sao Paulo, Brazil

What irrational thinking. A man who was born neither of British parents nor on British soil, and was probably brought up with people of similar circumstances (who would probably never consider themselves to be British), and he is the product of a society he has almost as little in common with as he does that of Italy! (Other than being "accidentally" a citizen of the latter).

Of course he shouldn't be deported - he murdered a British subject and was sentenced by an English court. But what you haven't addressed is why he won't remain in prison. If he was given a life-sentence, then he should serve for life. Clearly the law isn't so separate from the "humanity" which you so clearly disdain. (Or is his release more to do with over crowed prisons?)

I'm only 18 years old, but it is for reasons like your proud arcticle that I'm leaving this country as soon as I can. I'm only "accidentally" a citizen here anyway.

James, Newcastle,

More and more people who are born and have grown up in this country are living the UK. People are not happy, there is an increasing lack of respect for each other on all levels. Until this is sorted out we are going to be arguing whether a man who murdered should be deported. Deporting is not preventing the crime. I dont think it would have changed whether Mr Lawrence was tragically murdered or not. Fixing the root causes surely would. Find out what they are and deal with them. Stand up and admit where we are failing. It has to be the first step. Its time to be honest with ourselves.

Biber, London, UK

Alice, I'm sure you would have happily accepted his legal aid money to represent Chindamo's human rights.Unfortunately what goes amiss are the views and concerns of the victims of crime which take second place to the 'human rights' of the offender. Mrs Lawrence has been through enough and is conducting herself with dignity, sadly your article suggests you have chosen a different path. Its easy to take the moral high ground when you are a million miles away.

DC, Derby,

It's interesting: people fleeing for their lives from war zones, from oppressive regimes, from tyranny and genocide have no right to remain in this country. In fact they're returned by the bucket-load. Others are washed up on beaches, stay in a detention centre for several years and are forced to remain in a state of limbo or go back to wherever they came from. Yet more will try to gain invitations from their relatives (as mine did) to simply visit the country and they're turned down because they 'might' commit crimes, they 'might' be carrying drugs or weapons, they 'might' try to scam the welfare system.

Then we have a boy who HAS committed a crime and the first thing people say is that, despite him not being a British citizen, we ought to forgive him and let our 'humanity' reign. This is not a symbol of a civilised country. A civilised country would be less brutal to genuine, innocent immigrants and rightfully deport idiots who stab head-teachers.

Jay, London,

If you are proud of a system that prevents the government of this country from removing a murderer from our country, then you should seek medical help frankly. He is not to be deported to Baghdad, Kabul or Darfur for heavens sake but Italy.

No wonder that over 300,000 Brits are fleeing these shores for a more sane existence elsewhere.

Would the last person to leave the country turn the lights off please ?

Oh, don't worry. Alice can do it.....

Jon, Epping, England

The whole problem with this case is NOT the issue of whether or not this person should stay in the Uk, but rather the inadequate sentence he received in the first place.

If a cold blooded killer such as this were to face what I believe most people would consider to be a suitable sentence - lets say thirty years before the word 'release' was even mentioned -then there would not be the uproar about issues surrounding release. Instead, Mrr lawrence gets the death sentence, his family get a life sentence and the killer gets JUST 12 years. That I believe is the REAL injustice in this case.

If cold blooded killers were looking at thirty years we might see fewer of these cases.

Andrew Brown, derby, UK

if there is to be any repatriation, it should be the repatriation of this government to scotland.

the nationality of this murderer should not be an issue. either he has been properly punished or he hasn't and either he is a danger to the public or he isn't.

this would not be an issue if he were not being released. most people would agree that the sentence he received is pitiful. personally, I think he should have been hanged. but then personally I am not so concerned with the theoretical chances of "redemption" as I am with the safety of my children. why should they be put at risk on the off-chance that some scum might be reformed? it's not a question of revenge, it's a question of appropriate justice and the well-being of the law-abiding majority coming first.

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind? glib nonsense. it makes people think before poking. and we should start by educating and disciplining everyone who lives here so they know it's wrong to start with.

jem, london, uk

As a democrat I believe some sort of vote is in order to sort out this little connundrum. You see, people instinctively know what is right and wrong, what makes them feel happy, safe, secure, nervous, vulnerable etc. If the government would abide by the will of the people, what a great country we would have. After 300 years of enlightened thinking and over 100 years of state education for all, I for one trust the British people to arrive at the right verdicts more often than the law-makers.

The likes of Alice Miles would also be spared the ordeal of getting themselves all tangled up with their mental gymnastics, and be able to utilise their time more constructively, and perhaps with beneficial consequences for society.

Lawrence, Liverpool, England

Yes, the guy is Italian born, his mother a Philippine, his father an estranged Italian Mafiosi - this young murderer seems fairly typical of the kind of individuals that the UK regularly welcomes to its shores nowadays.

We must do more though - it clearly wasn't enough that the UK public provided free accommodation, healthcare and education for this poor, impoverished fellow and his family. Yes, it's our fault that this happened - he stabbed Mr Lawrence because of our failure. Yes, I'm proud that he's allowed to live in the UK - although I probably will move to Italy in the next year or so.

Mark, London,

Why not just let him rot in prison (as he clearly deserves) and the problem is immediately solved?

David, St Albans, UK

He should certainly remain inside Britain, in jail, for the rest of his life.

Roger Cole, Carson City, USA

In Australia, it is simple. Carry out a serious crime and you are deported to the country of your nationality if you have not taken out citizenship before doing the crime.

It is a shame that politicians in the UK have made it a nice place to migrate from...hence I am here in Adelaide..

stephencleland, Adelaide, Australia

"Chindamo is clearly British"

Clearly - its not clear to me hes half italian half phillipino born in Italy, if that makes him British I'm The Queen of Sheba.

"I feel proud to live under a system that ultimately took the decision to allow him to stay. "

I bet you wouldn't be so proud if it was your loved one he'd brutally stabbed to death. OK let him stay along with all the other foreign violent criminals who I am sure you would leap up to defend their 'rights' as well....on one condition -that they are made to live in the streets of people like yourself, middle class PC liberals. Its time you lot were given a dose of the medicine you have forced down the throats of ordinary Brits for the last 30 years. That should wipe the smiles off your smug self righteous faces.

Jon, Northumberland, UK

elaine, this is not about forgiveness at all. it is quite possible to forgive chindamo, but at the same time accept that he should never be in a position to reoffend. here or anywhere else.

jem, london, uk

This is a "not on my doorstep" situation. If Chindamo remains a danger to the public, why on earth should the Italians be placed in that danger. To attribute blame to his absent Italian father rather than British society is ignorant at best and xenophobic at worst.

If he does remain a threat then he clearly should not be released. However, The sad fact is that the prisons are too full of similar products of British society to keep them all locked up forever.

Perhaps it would demonstrate real British humanity to trace the obviously evil ancestors of all our incarcerated criminals to discover if they are domiciled elsewhere in the world, which would allow us to release and then foist them dangerously on our neighbours.

David S, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

This man forfeited his human rights the moment he decided to put a knife in his pocket with every intention of using it if anyone got in his way. Whether he has family here or in Italy is completely irrelevant. It should be automatic that any foreign national or indeed anyone who has been granted citizenship who commits a major crime should be out immediately they complete their sentence. If they wish to appeal they should do so from whichever country they come from and at their own expense. It also shows how low and lacking in any common decency that our legal profession has fallen. What sort of man could put forward a defense that his client would be denied a family life without any consideration for the widow and children of a decent man murdered and denied any family life at all? I don’t know which I feel the most contempt for. The fluffy liberal witterings of Alice Miles are a typical reaction of our so called liberal elite who despise the citizens of this country .

Stuart McCloskey, Rossendale,

I agree with you, Alice. Well said.

Matthew Clarke, Worcester, UK

Tom Tom Leeds, you must be reading 1984 as I am-again, London is Airstrip one, Orwell used the word newspeak, spot on about Nulab which is itself newspeak. How far we have come towards this Utopia with "Nulab"

ann, london /airstrip 1, England

Chindamo has been given a new life. He is old enough now and have the courage to pay penance to Mrs Lawrence for the wrong doing.
He should publicly state carrying weapons is not cool.
I hope the prison has not made him a hardened criminal.

Kim L, Uxbridge, Middlesex

Pegah Emamblkhsh is a young Iranian woman threatened with repatriation to Iran. She is threatened with execution by stoning for being Lesbian. Her partner has already been imprisoned, tortured and prpobably executed.

The Italian gay and lesbian websites arcigay and arcilesbica are organising a sit-in protest outside the British embassy in Rome - they are calling Pegah's case, "the case that Britain wants to hide". They have previously hosted a campaign to urge people to urge Mr Prodi to protest to Gordon Brown.

There has been so far as I know, no press coverage at all of Pegah's case.

Please do what t you can to bring this case to light and to have Pegah allowed to stay.

James Lees

James Lees, Kelso, S cotland

I respect Alice Miles as a journalist and always read her column. But, this time she has got it all wong. Th murderer can enjoy the rest of his life after serving a paltry 12 years,while the fear and lothing of his pemeditated crime has robbed Mr Lawrence and all future victims (of knife crime) of their human rights. Chindamo should be in jail for the rest of his life. He will laugh as he walk from jail and every gang member in the country will cheer. One really has to ask whether the liberalism that infects our country is facilitating disrespect, anarchy and fear. Perhaps if Alice Miles got stabbed (and I sincerely hope not) she would say "there, there - I understand you and why you did that". Sorry Alice lock them away and protect society. Remember killers NEVER consider their victim's or anyone elses human rights.

Steve Whitmill, Nothampton, UK

If we forget the argument around the length of time served, this case is about FORGIVENESS. That determines our humanity, aligns with the God many of us purport to serve and is the only way many wrongdoers will be rehabilitated to live better lives in the future. Mrs Lawrence needs to meet him, forgive him, and move on, in order to help this young man make something positive of his life. That is the best outcome for all. Villifying him forever will achieve nothing. My only brother was murdered at 17, cut up into pieces and tied in bags to prevent him being identified. That, and other traumas, kept me mired in vengeful and suicidal depression for years. Then one day, 12 years later, I learnt to forgive the men who did that. I just wanted to help them somehow to change their lives for the better, and strangely changed mine in the process, dramatically. I am a much better person for letting go of that pain and that vengeance and replacing it with love. Truly awesome, forgiveness.

Elaine Sihera, Maidenhead, United Kingdom

For people who harm or kill,their human rights should be forfeited,and face the strongest of penalties.

sean denis, london, southwark

The concept of human rights was nurtured and promoted by lawyers for the benefit of lawyers. As these rights do not exist outside the legal formulations in which they are couched, the scope for disagreement as to their interpretation and application
in particular cases is limitless. This has proved a goldmine for the legal profession but has done nothing to further the cause of justice.

Martin Litchfield, Wimborne, England

"If Chindamo is truly remorseful he would offer to leave the country because this is what would help the Lawrences" - Quote: Frances.

Absolute nonsense!!! Leave the country? Why? Where to? Perhaps to a dumping ground for "garbage"? As Ms Miles rightly pointed out, Mr Chindamo is a product of the British socio-political system and Britain must deal with him whether people here like it on not. Stop passing the buck. Would you offer him to another country if he were a star athlethe or a brilliant scientist? Wake up guys...this is 2007 and not 1807?

Alex, Manchester,

12 years is not long enough. And he should not be deported. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough, but I haven't seen many other journalists tackling this issue, so kudos to Alice.

SpiderMonkey, Cambridge, UK

He's a citizen of an EU member state, and as such has the right to freedom of movement throughout the union. It is his choice to settle in the UK or not. If we sent him back to Italy, the same laws would allow him to simply wait at the airport, before boarding the next flight back.

i do love the lack of oppurtunity being granted by the respondents here, for the guy to show that he is in any way reformed or able to live a normal, productive and useful life in the UK. Lovely attitude you;ve all got.

Stuart, Southampton, UK

Chindamo is from a common sense point of view - british, and to suggest otherwise, implies that our ministers are trying to find excuses for the growth in youth delinquency in the UK today. Sending him back to Italy would be a whitewash, dwarfed by the complete inadequacy of our own justice and social systems.

The pendulum is swinging...

Scott, Birmingham, UK

I think Alice Miles is working undercover for the BNP. A masterful article, they'll certainly get my vote next time round.

Erik Thomas, Grimsby,

I must agree with Richard Horton and Alice Miles, he should be sent to jail but once we accept he is sufficiently safe to be released, he has been sentenced to life under British law, we can not then argue that he is so dangerous we must deport him.

Poor Mrs Lawrence has been dragged into a publicity stunt between one group of politicians trying to look tough and another group trying to sound Anti-European!

Dan, Oxford, UK

Chindamo stays – and I’m proud of it
The verdict on this man is a mark of civilised society.........
What a stupid stupid statement.
Scum such as this should not even be allowed to ever walk our streets again.. The Law in this country is an Ass along with the PC brigade and the human rights, die hards. They have too long abused the whole idea of human rights and made a mockery of this country.....Send the nasty little creep back to where he belongs and all the other criminal immigrants in this country that cost us the tax payer too much to keep them in our prisons. Let their homelands pay for them. I dont want to and I dont want them in my country....

Scully, Exeter, UK

Absolutely disgusting. If Chindamo's name was Tom Smith or some other similarly English name repatriation would never have been an issue - even if he is of Italian descent and has been here since he was six.

Clearly having spent most of his life here (regardlss of the fact he speaks no Italian) he is British and a product of the our welfare system.

What ties him to Italy? The fact that his parents happened to be born there? This is just typical of the hypocrisy policiticians and xenophobes in the UK display.

TomTom, if Philip Lawrence had been an Italian and not a native British Citizen as you say would you still condemn the fact that he's here? Or what if he had been a native Brit? Would that make his crime any more forgiveable?

It's alright to have a multi cultural Britain when it suits us but now when someone with a drop of foreign blood commits a crime we'll scream repatriation. Racism? What racism? Is this the government's new solution to overcrowded prisons?

Dalia Elsokari, Ickenham, London,

Thank you, Alice Miles, I agree with every word you have written.

It ill behoves this Government, with the blood of so many of our young men on its hands as a result of the unnecessary Iraq and Afghanistant wars - (not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens of those countries) to take the moral high ground where Learco Chindamo is concerned.

He has paid the price, according to our law, for the terrible crime he committed as a child and will be out on Licence for the rest of his life.

I am horrified by the blood-lust shown by so many in the media and my fellow countrymen.

Thank you again, Alice, for your thoughtful and intelligent article - which has nothing at all to do with "wishy-washy liberalism" as claimed by some ignorant souls.

Patti B., BEACONSFIELD, England

A simple set of rules should be put into place to protect the rights of British nationals.

1/ Has the convicted person been in Jail? If no, take no further action. If yes go to 2/ below.
2/ Does the convicted person hold a non-british passport? If yes, even if they are dual country passport owners, deport them. If they do also have a British passport, revoke it. If no, they can stay.

It is about time we got serious about crime. All races, colours and faiths are welcome to the British Isles. But when they come they are obliged to adhere to the laws of the land. If they do not, and the crime is of a nature that results in a prison sentence, upon completion of the prison sentence they should be deported, without right of appeal.

By adhering to such rules will the Briish publics faith be restored in the criminal justice system, or at least the piece that manages immigration. Right wing? Yes, but it will go some way to stop people being murdered by immigrants.

Simon, London, UK

It is unclear whether the British government can meet the hurdle (imperative grounds of public security) to expel an EU citizen. Some Home Office analysis suggests that the threat of a serious crime is sufficient (others suggest only terrorism is serious enough) - the prior bad action is insufficient, so there must be an ongoing threat. In this respect, we should applaud the legal system for affording due process.

However, Alice Miles is eager to blame Britain for Chindamo: Grown on British streets, etc. I see no mention of his family and their responsibility, surely a major factor? But then they are not British.

She claims that his lack of citizenship is an "accident". This ignores the fact that citizenship has obligations and priviledges. Chindamo is not as obligated to the British state as if he were a citizen. No draft could call him up for military service for example. To blithely ignore this duality is wrong. If the government make their case, let the alien be expelled.

ken, Oxford,

If, as Alice rightly pointed out, the law is the law. Then Mr Chindamo should receive punishment according to the laws in operation at the time of his offence. Which, as far as I know, allowed for his deportation after release from prison. No law on the statute books has ever been retroactive, and that applies to EC law too.

The vengeful public is satisfied, the bleeding hearts are satisfied, and have another cause to discuss over their canapes the politicians are off the hook, even the judges are satisfied.

It won't happen though, the real world has lost touch with reality.

Allan Stevens, llanelli, Wales

Oh Alice, just burning with self-righteous, moral superiority - just how much more enlightened can one woman be? We are all lucky to have such people around us to ensure that the rights of the violent and hateful are respected. We cretins would be tearing at the very fabric of our fair society if we were to deal decisively with social abominations.

My thanks to you Alice. My only hope is now is that Chindamo comes and lives next to me - maybe I could get to know him. Maybe you would like to come over and coffee sometime Alice?

Dan, London,

What is truly alarming, is that by the incredibly stupid behaviour of politicians , they have succeeded in giving a foreign institution (EU) and a ridiculous law created overseas ( Euro humans rights act etc) More rights over what is done and not done in this country by its elected MPs. Although of course the present government are a whole lot to blame for this nonsense.

Regarding Mile's article however , it does prove a few things. Instead of writing on things she obviously as no real idea about ..in this case she writes eloquently on something she obviously does know about, very expertly.

What it does do..is confirm beyond all manner of doubt , that the likes of Miles and her lefty/liberal cohorts , are not living on another planet. They are in a totally different universe. Its sickening that such people will expound so much about criminals , yet say nothing of victims , unless its to criticise and harp at them .

Frightningly sickening.

N Wilson, Bourne, Lincs

There is nothing to be proud of in either accomodating Chindamo in the UK at the expense of good law-abiding citizens nor in releasing him at an age when he can readily enjoy a full life (with crime most likely). His incarceration instead of punishing him has rewarded him with education and absence from work....which the rest of us carry as our burden through life.

It is not really practical to deport him, but if we cannot make him pay for his crime with his own life, we should at least make him pay for it by doing serious time, which 12 years is not. I did 12 years in the Navy. It went past in a flash and is now 20 years behind me. Incarecerating murderers for life should mean life!

Jerry Shadbolt, Geneve, Switzerland

The only reason for deporting him would be if Italy still had the death penalty. We as a nation are far too soft on crime, we think more of the criminal than the victim. Once someone has committed an act of this nature, they should loose all right to be considered human. There can be NO redemption.

J.Mathews, southend,

Your columnist, Alice Miles seems to be suffering from what the late, great, Alice Thomas Ellis called ‘ the Lord Longford Syndrome’: the compulsion to forgive the perpetrator of a crime against someone other than oneself. It is hard enough, when one is suffering, to be told to forgive an aggressor, but quite intolerable to have some third rate hack dish out absolution on ones behalf.     
Moreover, her contention that the decision of the tribunal is the mark of a civilized society is really rather silly. The Law in the United Kingdom is no longer administered 'to punish the wrong doer and protect the children of the poor' but to line the pockets of shyster lawyers. Time to wake up and smell the stench.

Peter Whelan, Leamington Spa, UK

Ben from Reading, I would consider myself a Liberal and I have been mugged, admittedly not at knife point, but I was mugged and beaten around the head.

However I feel a sense of relief that this article was written and that I am not the only one who agrees with the courts decision.

I think that expression "A .
Conservative is a Liberal who has been mugged" distorts what Conservatism and Liberalism mean and stand for. As far as I am aware harsh punishments made on snap emotional decisions without regarding the facts is part of neither view points.

Stephen, Maidstone, UK

Our liberal society, as with many other countries, supports a more humane approach to the treatment of criminals. When we say that Chindamo is a product of British Society where does that leave us?

This is the same society that created the likes of Sir Tom Hunter, Ajaz Ahmed and David Arnold to name a few.

We have challenges ( and some really big problems) most of which are linked to poverty, education (or the lack of it) and the consequential loss of opportunities.

Chindamo is a product of that challenged end of our society; what he did was inexcusable and he is our problem, so we need to find a way to deal with him.

If we still had capital punishment for murder, and Chindamo had been old enough to swing, we wouldn't be having the debate about either his possible early release, or the rights and wrongs of his deportation.

Mark Simpson, London, UK

Deporting violent criminals wherever possible seems an excellent policy, and I am puzzled why Alice Miles thinks otherwise.
Perhaps she will offer Mr Chindamo a room in her own house as she feels so strongly as to his right to a home in the uk ?

Brummy Doug, Birmingham, UK

I can clearly understand how the Lawrence family feel but a mans human rights cannot be undermined by a Family's personal grievence. We are a civilised society and that also means that we should never deprive anyone, no matter what they have done, of their right to live in this country. The Lawrences haven't considered other famili's whos loved ones have been killed by British citizens; they face the possibility of meeting theior loved one's murderer in the streets also.
I agree that with rights come responsibilities but it is this governement that have signed up to the Europpean Bill of Human Rights and it is hypocritical to challenge the EU's deccission. The government says that he still poses a threat...well doesn't every killer, but they still release them early. The issue that needs to be tackled is stricter sentencing for these ruthless killers. No one, no matter what they have done, deserve their human rights to be revoked. He has served his punishment, thats the end of it.

Damien Jarrett, barrow upon humber, north lincolnshire

Presumably, Ms Miles, you would be quite happy for Chindamo to come and live next to you. Thought not.

J Marshall, London,

How about the UK taking back it's pheadofiles from all over the world? How about the UK taking back the Costa criminals?
This guy sounds just like thousands of other BRITISH teenagers, and has commited a horrible crime, again very much part of the fabric of growing up in Brittain, in fact he could hardly be any more british, from 'norf london, innit'.

JC, London,

Talk about missing the big picture, Alice.... Read the Ruling by judge DK Allen. It gives this killer: the right to freedom of movement; the right to respect for private life; the right to protection from media scrutiny; the right not to be expelled; the right to family life; the right of permanent residence. Notice anything? No mention of any rights for Mr Lawrence or his family. This is what people are concerned about. The legal/rights industry is earning itself a fortune handing the streets over to violent thugs. Criminals in the UK know that, no matter what they do, the rights professionals will consistently rally to their cause. And no matter how expensive the process, it won't cost the criminal a penny. Pandering to the violent is fuelling ever more confident crime at the expense of the rest of us. It's not liberal or politically correct - it's anti-social. The fact that you're proud the courts are elevating this thug's rights is pretty indicative of these skewed priorities.

cath, london,

Let him stay in the UK. Paid for and living next door to the lawyer responsible for his UK residence. Then see how many of the liberal cretins would volunteer for the job.

R. Nock, Saltash, Cornwall

Ok Alice, Mr. Chindamo can stay next door to you under your supervision.

Ian, Maidstone,

I would like to thank Alice for demonstrating the media and legal elite that live in a different world to many of us proles. The dripping arrogance of the "Moral" high ground. The blindness to Justice - it is many a year since Justice and the Law were one and the same. The complete lack of common sense and any sense of compassion for the victims. The fact that you make a nice profit off defending people like Chindamo's "Human Rights" is a bonus. Personally I'll take the crude local Justice and Van Diemens Land thanks. Bring back the fear and misery to the criminal rather than the victims.

Chris, London, UK

I seem to remember a number of countries returning British born criminals on their release back to the UK, some with far more years in their adopted country than this individual. Are they wrong too? It's hardly surprising that foriegn criminals view our country as a soft touch and Ms Miles viewpoint reinforces it.

C. Young, Hampshire,

"Chindamo isn’t picking and choosing. For a start, he hasn’t yet been allowed out of jail, and won’t be until he is considered no longer a danger to the public."

He is not going to serve just 12 years. Hopefully it will be much more as that is the real issue here.

F.Bishop, Hamilton, Bermuda

"the judicial sentence has two purposes: to punish the crime but also to offer hope for rehabilitation and reintegration back into society." really, dr. pelfrene? I would say the number one priority is protecting the public. and if we have to balance that with offering hope for rehabilitation and reintegration, I say we should weigh things very much in favour of protecting the public.

there are also many who would argue that for the punishment to fit the crime, 12 years for a murder is pathetically inadequate. if the fine for stealing £100 was £5. do you think that would act as a deterent? I don't.

jem, london, uk

Well done Alice Miles!
I am shocked at the prevalent "gutter press" mentality...how far is this mob witch hunt from the gangland culture which turns teenager in to "feral teens"

Rule of law and Civil rights should be upheld in all instances... that is why our society is a civilised society and not a anarchical mob ruled hell

PK green, london,

Praise the lord- this paper finally speaking sense over this insane frenzy. I just cannot understand the argument. Of course he's British, of course he should stay in this country. It's the law, it's the way things work. People talking of needing some 'surety' that he won't reoffend must be living a life of constant terror: one cannot be certain any released convict will not reoffend. Are they suggesting ALL prisoners be incarcerated indefinitely, or just those who could, possibly, just about, if one is silly and tenuous and illogical about it, be shown to maybe belong in Italy acutally anyway? Nonsense. Alice Miles's 'wet liberalism' is the kind of even, common sense that is all too rare amongst the hideous pessimism, scare-tactis, and xenophobic hysteria that is all too common today. Personally, I think we've most of us got it pretty good.

Joe Pierson, Clacton, Essex

"Chindamo is clearly British"
His father is Italian, his mother Filipino and he was born in Italy.... So what exactly defines his 'clearly British' citizenship?

Abby, Chester, UK

Life should mean Life, then nobody would need to worry about Chindamo's future, because he would die in Jail.

Mrs Lesley Howard, Fareham, Hampshire

The terms of the European Convention on Human Rights are generally bland and unobjectionable. It is the way they have been interpretted by the Strasbourg court that has caused problems. It should be remembered, however, that these judgements apply to all the 47 countries that have ratified the convention. In England they occasionally cause our political masters embarrasment, but in countries such as Russia, Turkey and Serbia, to name but three, they may constitute the only hope the people have for obtaining the rights we take for granted. If we abandon the ECHR we also abandon them.

Nick, Burley, Hants

Alice Miles, I would deport him and also you can hold his hand and go with him. Such tripe you write, have you seen any crime in your life? Put yourself in Mrs Lawrence shoes, you would scream revenge, it is called human nature.
Two young thugs close to where I live knocked an old lady down and grabbed her bag leaving her with a broken hip. So its the old ladies fault for being outdoors. Jesus! where do you people come from.

gil bolton, ashton, uk

"The alternative – to allow subjective feeling to overrule rational law – is to move back towards the days of crude local justice, of public stocks and floggings and hangings; to the Salem witchhunts, to the boatloads of convicts headed for Van Diemen’s Land."

Umm, no. I think people just want him to be deported to his country of origin. Massive difference. Pitiful argument.

Alistair, London,

I think Alice and people like her are a real problem in the way they always put the criminal first , because the law is being enforced in this way, it does not mean that the law is always correct.
I fear for our already abused country and I am sure this kind of attitude will see decent honest people suffer further and emigration spiral( further), as people are treated with contempt by criminals and their supporters.
"He is unlikely to offend again", I wonder who can read the future and make this statement
I also wonder what Alice thinks about the massive reoffending figures of ex convicts.

Tony, dorset,

It strikes me that even if he is deported to Italy, under EU rules all he needs do is get off the aircraft and catch the first bus back here, and being a citizen of the EU we'd welcome him!
Apart from a point of principle, deportation would achieve nothing practical.

Mike Asacret, Cambridge, England

Ben, Reading, UK says: "A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged at knifepoint."
I say "a liberal is a conservative who has been arrested."

Lee, Sterling, VA, US

Its a pity we cannot deport Alice.

jon homan, Doha, Qatar

Perhaps the Government should urgently spend more money on education and facilities for youths to play , so that we do not continue down the route that we are on now where there is a sub culture of youths who have no consciences and are happy to stab or shoot you. It is alarming to see what is happening to this Country, but the answer is not to export it but deal with it here AND NOW !.

Simon, London, UK

Nobody seems to realise that deportation was part of his punishment. If, as a result of our EU membership, this can no longer be achieved then the rest of his punishment should be adjusted to compensate. Instead of a chance of parole at 12 years, it should be increased to at least 20 years.

These sorts of wrangles are a result of the abolition of the death penalty. If he had been executed for this crime we should not have had to face this dilemma. Moreover, had the death penalty remained it is highly likely that the crime would not have been committed.

It is also an option for us to make parole less likely. Criteria for parole should not be confined to whether he remains a danger to society, but include whether the stench of the crime has disappeared from the nostrils of the community. That was the real reason that Myra Hindley stayed locked up until she died, and it should apply here.

Terry Hamblin, Bournemouth, UK

"Chindamo is clearly British" Oh yes. Clearly, being only half Philippino and half Italian.

Roger, Norfolk,


Well done Alice and PaulJ. Spot on. Simple and easy question of law. If he is still a danger then he should not be released. If he isn't a danger he CANNOT be deported to another EU country because our law says that he can't be. The rest is emotion and hysteria. The Human Rights issue is a red herring in this case. I heard Mrs Lawrence agree on the BBC Today programme that she would probably have come to the same decision as the Tribunal.

We still, thank goodness, have judges who administer the law as it is, independently and without emotion fear or favour. This law probably can't be changed as it binds us as an EU state. Don't criticise the judges. They are all we citizens have left with the power to protect us. The media can't protect us as it has influence but no power.

Perhaps, rather than now belatedly seeking to be 'robust ' in appealing, the Government should have thought of this situation arising before agreeing to the EU law in the first place.

Maurice S., London,

is it possible to deport an Italian, since Italy is an EU state? Surely that would be akin to deporting a Scot to Scotland? What is the law on EU deportation?

neil, waterford, ireland

Chindamo should have swung for his crime.

Bringing back capital punishment would start reducing the prison population.

Why should I have to help finance this sort of person's life?

David, Poole,

The interaction of U.K. law and E.U. rules is very confusing. Obviously, Mr. Chindamo was raised largely in the U.K., and most of his formative development was shaped there. Yet, citizenship should matter. The U.K. should have a right to determine which noncitizens will have the privilege of residing within it. It's not surprising that at 15 Mr. Chindamo was not hurrying to acquire British citizenship (assuming he was eligible at that point). It's unclear to me if he could have applied for citizenship during his imprisonment. However, it is clear that he is not presently a British subject and he has most definitely committed a vile crime. The U.K. should have the right to decide that this man has forfeited his right to remain a guest in the U.K. and demand that he leave. This isn't a minor crime or even a nonviolent one. If a 15 year old is willing to gut a man, it doesn't bode well for his future behavior. Perhaps he should be offered a choice of no parole vs. life in Italy.

Jill, Pittsburgh, PA, USA

I fully agree with Alice Miles. The judicial sentence has two purposes: to punish the crime but also to offer hope for rehabilitation and reintegration back into society. Chindamo was a young lad when he committed the murder and in part victim of an upbringing in a fractured family and poverty. When it is decided to release him, he will have matured. The best way to offer him real chances of successful rehabilitation is to keep him within this society and not to deport him. It is a pity his lawyers had to apply EU and human rights, but it shows the rule of law prevails and the system works against undue interference.

Dr. E. Pelfrene, Beckenham,

Quite simply the punishment must fit the crime - irregardless of age, he should be jailed for life. Has anyone checked to see whether he is indeed fit to be released - has he been educated over the past 12 years, has he shown any remorse for his crime, is the Parole Board made up of qualified individuals who can accurately assess the man's state of mind. Furtnermore, he is not British (is his Mother now a national of this country) and since his father is in jail in Italy, he must indeed have family there to whom he should be sent.
There is absolutely no reason why he cannot be returned to the country of his birth.

Chips Westwood, SARLAT LA CANEDA, France

If Mr Chindamo does not hold a British passport he should be excluded from the UK immediately after release. He has abused our hospitality by committing the most heinous of crimes. The reasons for his arrival in this country and how long he has lived here, guest of Her Majesty or otherwise, are completely irrelevant.

Peter Anderson, Winchester, UK

I am a great believer in the term "outlaw". Once an individual has broken the law he or she exists outside it and is no longer entitled to the privileges and protections it affords.

Furthermore, I do not believe that anyone is born with inalienable "rights". Such things are granted by the society they live in and form one half of the basis of a contract between society and the individual. The individual agrees to take on certain responsibilities, society agrees to grant them certain rights. In any other context when a contract is broken the innocent party (in this case society) is entitled to treat the contract as ended. The innocent party is also entitled to reparation. Convicted criminals are proven to have broken the contract, and must pay reparation through the various punishments imposed by the court. Until those punishments have been worked off they remain outside the law, and the social contract cannot be reinstated. We are all far too generous with the "rights" we grant.

L Kent, London,

Well said Alice Miles.

The critical issue is how we get to have a political system where politicians like McNulty, Straw, Cameron and Davis have integrity rather than sound as if they believe what they are saying when all they are doing is trying to curry favour with the vociferous part of a media and electorate who do not think like me, that public safety comes about when we integrate those who offend rather than exclude them, at least when there is good reason to expect integration to be successful.

Andrew Hatton, Maldon, Essex, England

I was as upset as anyone could have been by the thought that this man would remain in this country but Alice Miles is absolutely right. He is not Italy's problem. He is ours. The real problem is the system that allowed him to arrive and remain here in the first place.

Tam Earl-Aine, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

I think Alice is right on some level. Him not been a native born british citizen had nothing to do with his crime. but i do think that life should mean life.

Kek, Loughborough,

He's had twelve years to learn Italian.

Gwilym Rhys-Jones, costa del sol, spain

Suddenly I find aspects of Sharia law hugely attractive when the law in the UK has descended into such a farcical mess over its treatment of a simple street thug.

Tim, Birmingham, UK

I don't understand what would compel Italy to take him? Why is he more their responsibility than ours.

Having said that I think that if he felt a shred of remorse he should offer to move to italy upon his release.

Pete, london,

Alice Miles states "I feel proud to live under a system that ultimately took the decision to allow him to stay". The decision was apparently dictated by an EU directive and the Tribunal that made the decision did not have any discretion, it simply implemented the directive. Logically, It must follow that Alice Miles is proud of the directive. Why?

Mark, Manchester,

I think Alice has missed the point....do we WANT this thug in Britain? And should human rights apply to foreigners? It is the liberal attitude that confuses the issue. We do not need people like the murderer of Philip Lawrence in this country. I think we should have taken immediate steps to return him to the country which created the problem.

Judy , Liverpool, england

Could Kathleen Bell tell me what colour the sky is on her planet.

Will, Leicester,

What a load of self-righteous, bleeding-heart tosh! Chindamo deserves to be deported to the next world.

Ms. Miles may be very pretty but I am afraid that it is this pathetic mushy, aren't-I-saintly way of thinking that has turned Britain into a criminals' paradise.

Gervas Douglas, Andorra la Vella,

I must agree with Richard Horton and Alice Miles, he should be sent to jail but once we accept he is sufficiently safe to be released, he has been sentenced to life under British law, we can not then argue that he is so dangerous we must deport him.


Poor Mrs Lawrence has been dragged into a publicity stunt between one group of politicians trying to look tough and another group trying to sound Anti-European!

Dan, Oxford, UK

'The verdict on this man is a mark of civilised society'.

What fools we are.

I hope you will not be nearby when this man is released and he gets his knife out again, Alice.

There will be a 'next time', of course - because that's the way things are these days.

Annie , Bath, UK

Where is the logic in suggesting that deporting a dangerous man will save a life? Or is it somehow OK for him to kill an Italian rather than a UK resident? If he is dangerous, the answer is not to release him, not to send him off to be dangerous somewhere else. I really think this whole fuss is completely artificial; the issue simply would not arise but for the accident that Chindamo's parents didn't apply for British citizenship.

Elaine, London,

Im am very very scared reading some of the comments. Let's face the facts: Chindamo is "italian" only by an unfortuanate combination of genes and passport. he is a product of modern British society. Deporting him to wherever will not resolve anything. Or bring Mr Laurence back. Or make Britain a better place. Letting Chindamo stay in the UK is not only a correct interpretation of the law, it is the right thing to do. Thanks Alice for your article.

Catherine, Luxembourg,

Ms Miles states that government should not involve itself in the rule of law! Of course, that would mean that a democratically elected body representing the veiws of the electorate would have a say in legislation controlled by self appointing buisinessmen and foreign governments. Regardless of the media spin that surrounds the case does Ms Miles believe that the majority of the population would agree with her sentiment.
The idea that law should exist without humanity is a total nonsense, regardless of how impartial our legal system is deemed to be. If it were not for the concept of humanity then why bother with law and the protection of the innocent. Without humanity why would we care.
Why has this man been released at all?

Mark, London,

Pride goeth before a fall...

Hugh, London , Albion

What we have never explored is the welfare of victims .Their needs are endlessly put a long way behind the needs of the criminal .This is weak and bizarre,a mad Orwellian doublethink. We should do whatever comforts and restores the sense of safety and agency to victims.If Chindano is truly remorseful he would offer to leave the country because this is what would help the Lawrences.That he doesn't suggests that his outlook remains as egocentric as ever.

Frances , Tunbridge Wells, UK

you've lost the plot Miles, it's not humanity, it's just insane humanism . i' m already looking for somewhere else to live

phollie, Bromley,

The question I think is at the heart of the problem here. Just because you have lived here seen you were 12 does not mean that you british. His mother and family have clarly failed to provide the right support and role models needed. His father has totally disappeared from his life. Does he respect british values? I believe that he will always be a danger to society because he believes in only himself and thet value of others. Mr Lawerence's wife has made a very important point with regard to her human rigths, where are they? The human rights law is being used in a negative way, it should be serving the majority and not the minority of society. Its seems that we all have rights, so more than others!

Ash, Birmingham, England

Thank heavens for Alice Miles, I was beginning to think it was only me whose sympathies lay with Chindamo on this. There is simply no moral or legal justification for attempting to deport him. He is here legally, this is the only home he has known. He has committed a terrible crime, and has been punished according to our law (some may think the punishment is insufficiently severe, but that is a different issue). The moment we resort to arbitrary and unpredictable penalties, decided by tabloid lynch mobs and politicians desperate to look tough, we cease to be civilised. I like being civilised.
Incidentally, I am not a bleeding heart liberal, but a card carrying conservative on the right of that party.

Richard Horton, Purley, Surrey

Dear Alice. please take the trouble to find out what constitutes equity in a situation such as this. Of course we expect persons to be treated equitably under the law. But what you fail to recognise is that not all persons rights are the same. I despair of sound thinking ever again emerging in this country.

peter, herts,

Thank you Alice, and to the few voices of reason who have written here. It seems that the majority are confusing the issues. As a society we have laws which allow us to punish offenders for the crimes they commit. In this case Chindamo is serving a sentence handed out by the courts which is to punish him for his actions as a teenager. After serving his time, under our laws and in keeping with the humanity of our society, he will be free to go and to start a new life. That is the basis of our justice and I for one wish it to remain so.

Whether that new life is here in UK or somewhere else depends on other factors. In this case it has been decided that Chindamo is effectively British as this is and has been his home. He should stay and be allowed back into our society, and all the anger and frustration of those who think otherwise should be directed to solving the root cause of the problem that made a 15 year-old boy commit such a crime in our society in the first place.

Mike, herne bay,

I agreed with every single word of this excellent and sane piece of journalism.

Miles is absolutely correct in concluding that the decision not to deport Learco Chindamo is a vindication of our justice system and that the politicians who have grubbily rushed in to damn that decision have shamed themselves. Cameron's comment that the decision "is a shining example of what is going wrong in our country" is a shining example of why he shouldn't be allowed to run our country.

As Chimano has lived here nearly all his life, it’s clear that he is a home-grown British "problem", a product of our increasingly violent gang culture. Even if he does pose a risk what possible justification could there be for then dumping this problem on someone else's doorstep? It's our duty to attempt to solve it ourselves.

I would be much happier if politicians would attempt the hard work of tackling the social problems which have helped this gang culture take root than the easy path of tabloid pandering

James, London, London

I actually attended St.Georges RC School in Maida Vale during the Philip Lawrence era and witnesssed the the truly great man that he was, he totally transformed the school during the brief period that he was there.
To offer Chindamo the right to stay here once he's out is akin to allowing a Barclays Bank robber to still bank with Barclays once he's let out! it's absolutely ridiculous and it's time we as a nation realised that!

Whysaliya, London, England

Sadly, some (step forward, Stuart Booth) of your correspondents are clearly prejudiced against Chindamo because of his foreign birth. I wonder how much of the furore is due to his having a foreign sounding name: if he had been born Lee Chindham in Canada, and lived here since age 6, would there be such a clamour to deport him? If there were, as someone born outside the EU he would be in a worse position than Chindamo; but the clamour to deport him plays well to the tabloids only because he has a funny sounding foreign name and appearance: I bet it wouldn't be half as loud otherwise. He's a scumbag; but he's our scumbag, and we have no right to offload him on some other poor country. I have little doubt that he'll be back in accomodation provided at tax payers' expense before too long. Ho hum.

Martin Scott, London,

It would seem we in the UK have a very real problem deciding what standards we do have. This man cannot be deported to a friendly country which shares the same ideals as our own. Similarly we cannot deport dangerous potential terrorists because they may suffer under a regime which has none of our standards.
I thought that perhaps my view that this country has gone mad was due to my age but heres proof the problem lies elsewhere

mike gee, bournemouth, uk

Three cheers for you Alice. Some politicians, shamefully including Mr.Cameron, tried to play to the gallery of public prejudice and to the lynch mob over this. Thank heavens for the law and the judiciary.

It's very simple. Either he's a danger and he stays in jail or he's not and he is released and has the same rights as anyone else.

The day victim's rights include revenge we may as well all convert to Islam and adopt Sharia law.

Politicians would be better off addressing themselves to the overall phenomenon of fatherless males growing up on the streets and the ever growing problem of knife crime.

PaulJ, London,

Chindamo is a convicted murderer. If you took straw poll I think you'd find that nobody really cares about his human rights and would rather see him deported, regardless of what the rest of the world thinks.
Of course, the governments hands are tied by European law and we're all wasting our breath.

paul betteridge, london, UK

"We should take pride in it."

A man who needlessly and violently takes the life another - leaving a wife without a husband and 4 children without a father and devastating their lives - is allowed to roam the streets again before he's even 30.

I see little "pride" to be taken in any nation that allows that.

I wonder how Alice Miles would feel if it were HER husband who'd been MURDERED and HER children who'd been semi-orphaned?

The utter lack of respect that she shows for the VICTIMS of this MURDERER is pathetic.

Jon Leigh, Southern, France

I think that it is a disgrace that this government and the courts will not protect its own citizens from foreign criminals who want to come here and remove the qualities of life that we hold dear.

If the current legislation leaves the court with no opportunity but to allow this animal to stay here then perhaps a change to the law to enforce deportation of any person not of British descent who is found to have committed ANY illegal act. Perhaps this could be broadened to ensnare those who would change our way of life (yes, I am talking about Muslims!). If a muslim chooses to be British then they may stay, if they show any desire to live under sharia law or bring about the caliphate then we should deport them to afghanistan clean and simple. I can't see Iran, Saudi or Iraq allowing me to go there and become a citizen only to state that I want to change their entire system for one of Christian values, so then why should they be allowed to come here and demand that we change to Muslim?

Stuart Booth, Northampton,

He is a product of British society, committed his crime in Britain and served his sentence here.
His home is here and here is where he should stay.
MP's and ministers only get involved if thet think there are votes in it, a chance to look macho.
We sit behind our chintz curtains and pronounce sentence on people just because of the colour of their skin.
We made him, we should take responsibility for him.

Ken Wyatt, Todmorden, UK

A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged at knifepoint.

Ben, Reading, UK

Actually I agree that he should stay here. The law says that he should stay here, so stay here he should, and those that decry this judgment are actually bringing about the kind of scofflaw society they so deplore. Just so that somebody doesn't accuse me of being a woolly-minded liberal let me add, that of course he should stay here because he should be spending most of the rest of his natural life in jail. The idea that he might get out after 12 years is just insane. 30 years might seem more realistic. If there is a problem, it is with the sentencing. It is not his staying in the UK that is the scandal, but that he is up for release.

Laurence Eyton, Taipei, Taiwan

No doubt Ms. Miles went to the university of PC U.K.. Ltd. she obviously never attended the university of 'Streetwise' Worldwide Ltd. I have no doubt she does not live in an area patrolled nightly by feral career criminals like Chindamo. What you should be asking Alice is why this piece of scum is being let out after a mere 12 years partly spent in a holiday camp not writing reams of stuff about how Britain souuld be responsible for him. Yes, I know there is no more Van Diemen's Land (more's the pity) but politically we need to be shot of him.
I understand he has been trained as a sort of nurse - to be employed by who, may I ask? Pass the employment forms NHS...not possible? - you wanna. bet?

Victor M., Malaga, Spain

No doubt if the murdered man had the ability to air his view here I am sure he would be proud he once lived in a civilised community too!
Ridiculous Miles, if you met this killer in a dark alley one night would you apologise for civilised society locking him up for twelve years?

Rufusgrey, Brentwood,

Flogging would help us step back from barbarism?
Dear God!

Ken Wyatt, Todmorden, UK

The virulent intolerance shown by some commentators is not far from the gang mentality that brought about Philip Lawrence's death. While the killer of Philip Lawrence was a disturbed adolescent who has since reformed and grown out of his violence, these adult "defenders of decency" revel in stirring up hatred, prejudice and xenophobia.

kathleen bell, Nottingham, England

Well done Alice Miles. It's upsetting how ready the vast majority of people are to throw out any idea of consistency, integrity or justice when considering this man and his crime.

Alex T, London,

Those who object to the 12-year sentence might reflect on the fact that this sentence is nearly as long as the killer had been alive when he committed the crime. It may not be "life" but from that perspective it is a lifetime.

Josh, Ashford,

What a sane column amidst all this hysteria! All the punative, illogigal and horrible comments in this paper and in others makes me nervous of my fellow (human?) beings.

Robert, London, UK

Alice Mile is spot on. This is a story and a situation manufactured by irresponsible politicians, sadly aided by civil servants, largely at Mrs Lawrence's expense. Articulate as she is, she simply couldnt answer the question put to her 'so why should he have to leave when this is his home'? And Jack Straw lamely says he feels he has been misled too (by 'the system', not any one individual)! Extraordinary!

Graham, Ashbourne, UK

'And he will be on licence, subject to return to jail with any misdemeanour'

Misdemeanour? We're not talking about someone who might steal a packet of wine gums from a supermarket. If he comes out of jail and kills again, do you think the sight of him returning to jail would compensate his next victim's family's loss?

AJ Duiken, London,

"Chindamo is clearly British, having lived here since he was 6 years old. He speaks no Italian, appears to have no connections with Italy other than the accident of citizenship"

That is a strange notion of British Citizenship but shows just how far Alice Miles has gone in accepting failed asylum-seekers et al as "British". This country has no self-respect when "British" is bandied around like a raincoat to be worn as needed

The issue with Chindamo returns us to the barbarity of a system that could have aborted him before birth, but cannot execute him after he commits murder. Instead it gives the rights of a foreign convict against The State greater emphasis than those of the victim's family when they are native British Citizens.

We no longer have the right to determine who may live in our country because we have no country, simply a region of a European Zone - Airstrip One.

TomTom, Leeds, England

If it is considered too harsh to send a murderer to live in a country where he doesn't speak the language why do we cause suffering to innocent immigrants to the UK by allowing them to remain in a country where they don't speak the language?

Michael Withycombe, Burgundy, France

it is about time life ment life.
if you murder you NEVER come out

this country has gone soft on killers but comes down hard on motorists and the oap`s who can not pay there council tax.

mick houston, cambridge, cambs

Surely one question that should be asked is.
What and how does a Filipino girl with a Italian husband and a child who spent his first five years without any connection to the UK end upliving here ?
If the law deals with only proof and not emotion why do we believe he will not commit any criminal offence on his release ?
It is to be hoped for, certainly, but where is the proof ? Perhaps you, Alice, or better still, his Solicitor would be prepared to stand surety ?

Peter Bolt, Redditch, UK

Oh no!Not another wet,liberal,media lovvie expressing her empthy for the poor disadvantaged criminal.He`s as much a victim as Mr Lawrence(RIP).What utter liberal tosh.Alice Miles and her kind have brought about a situation where gang warfare and mass murder have become common place in the streets of Britain*( perhaps Miles has not noticed this).Thanks to her and her kinds simpering,a situation has arisen where there has never been more fear about crime.The murderer should be deported just as soon as he is released.This might save the life of some as yet unsuspecting innocent person.But to hell with that.Its a murderers right(according to queen of pc Miles) to have access to potential victims.My hearts bursts with pride indeed.

Pat, Notts,

A few points of clarification. There hasn't been a " Van Dieman's Land " for generations, that estimable island having been called Tasmania since prior to living memory. The convicts who were transported there were not muderers as they were punished by death, as indeed were much lesser offenders. Like as not the people sent there were guilty of nothing more than stealing bread to feed a starving family. And the inhumanity of their treatment rested not so much in their transportation as in the treatment they recieved once they arrived. The nature of this treatment can best be judged by the following common practice. Two prisoners would draw lots for one to murder the other. The survivor would be confess to murder and be executed. This desperate ruse was thought to avoid the Christian injunction against suicide. To equate transportation to " Van Dieman's Land " with deportation to modern Italy is egregious sentimentalism.

James , Canberra, Australia.

And Miles says she is proud of the decision??? well that just about sums up whats rotten and effete with the UK today. I suppose if ollie bin laden turns up she will be there with the welcome carpet (facing east of course).

gordon gray, Auckland, New zealand

Two people called Lawrence, two murders and two different re- actions from the bleeding hearts. Every piece of English common law was to be overturned in the Stephen Lawrence case because he was black and the killers assumed to be white. The trendy lefties wanted to keep trying the accused until they were found guilty, how different in this case is it because this dead Lawrence is white?

Arthur Flynn, Baton Rouge, USA

No more Van Diemen’s Land ?

Outsource it, it's all the rage, how about to Singapore or Malaysia, they know how to deal with thugs.
Minimum qualification = one Asbo.

Stan(expat), USA,

Is he a British Citizen ? ...NO
If not, why not.
If you remain in a country all your life, and do not bother to become a citizen, how can you expect the country to do anything for you. If on top of that you break the law of your host country, then expect to be kicked out.

Zartiblartfast, France,

An excellent article by Alice Miles, which correctly affirms that not only do people convicted of criminal offences have legal and social rights, but that a civilised society is proud of that fact. It is depressing to read the petty nationalistic hate letters which some of your readers have sent in: in fact, they are part of the culture of violence and aggression which seems to prevail in contemporary UK.

Martin Baldwin-Edwards, Athens, Greece

Our legal/immigration system hit the pits when they gave a residents permit to the home secretary's girlfriends maid.

john smith, birmingham, uk

I wonder if Alice Mills would say the same if it were her husband who had been knifed to death.
It isclear that in this particular case although the law does not give the flexibility needed to expell this murderer from the UK, it certainly should do. Does Mills really consider that this is the first step towards public floggings and hangings ?Seems unlikely to me. I suggest that she is more concerned about Chindamo's rights than British society being rid of an evil person who will no doubt hurt or kill other innocent people if allowed to stay in the UK?

Julian Connor, Zurich, Switzerland

What's wrong in taking a step back to flogging? There is an argument for saying that to reintroduce flogging would be a step forward; a step towards ending the barbarism that is now so prevalent in this squalid little island of ours. Fear rules the lives of these knife-carrying hoodlums: they enjoy seeing the fear in the faces of the people they attack and they judge themselves only by the fear they feel on the streets. Flog them until the whites of their bones show, make them whimper with fear, and they'll soon start showing their fellow citizens some of the 'humanity' Miss Miles so loves.

Gavin Smith, London,

The common theme that connects the decision not to deport the killer of Philip Lawrence and our open doors immigration policy is the fact that the concept of nationality is no longer accepted by an influential section of our political class.
If you do not accept that citizenship and nationality has any value then it follows that individuals have a "Right" to live wherever they please. This is regardless of whether it is in the interests of the existing inhabitants or not.

James Staunton, London,

Absolutely right, Alice. It is a pity that the government has not made this argument but has instead pandered to views bordering on xenophobia in promising to pursue an appeal, which Mr Chindamo's lawyer rightly described as hopeless. (Incidentally, however, the Human Rights Act had very little to do with the case. It was not even mentioned in the judgment. These were matters of black-letter EU law.)

Robert, London,

Personally I believe he should be deported. Why should we keep him here. Not only that I am sick of criminals getting away with their crimes while the Great British people (who are hard working, honest and law abiding) have to put up with this - nobody ever takes into account our human rights to be allowed to live in peace and be allowed to live our lives as honestly and decently as we can be allowed to. All there seems to be in the news at the moment is people being stabbed or shot and it is about time we got tougher on criminals instead of pussyfooting around them all the time. No wonder there are more British people moving abroad. I am disgusted with the state this country is in and it's lack of a proper legal system that punishes the criminal and protects the victim (which is what it should be)!!!

Stephanie Torr, Barnstaple, United Kingdom

Our 'humanity' should be towards the victims first, not criminals. When is the liberal mindset going to understand this very basic fact. Most people aren't advocating hanging and flogging; just simple sensitive concern for victims and meaningful punishment for those who have harmed them. Chindamo has taken a life but it is considered too harsh to send him to a European country because he doesn't speak the language. This is not a sign of humanity but weakness and shows blatant lack of concern for Mrs Lawrence and her children who have suffered so much.

Lin, London, UK

The victims of crime are often the worst people to know what to do about the criminal. My own family has suffered at the hands of a child murderer and my emotional part would like to have half an hour alone with the man who did it, but my rational side recognises that that is not the way forward and will not bring back my relative. I understand Mrs Lawrence's pain - but the presses' spitefulness and vindictivenss against Chindamo will not bring back her husband (and I note that she has not directly called for his to be deported but has given rather confused messages). The Chindamo of 12 years ago was a child, a killer yes, but still a child. His home was in England, his family were in England and he knows no other country but England as his home. Let us keep him here and keep an eye on him. He is our problem not Italy's. We should remember, above all, that he was still a child himself when he murdered and not judge that child as we would an adult!

Mark, Cardiff,

There seems to be doubt as to whether he should be released as he's reacted negatively in situations acording to the lead news article and his education seems to nave been at best poor..
I wonder if the Psychologists and Social Workers that provide evidence to a Parole Board would be more reticent about recommending releasing 'troubled' prisoners if theyhad to share any future sentence for a serious crime (GBH, murder) committed in the five years after release.

DM, Eastbourne,

"An eye for eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
Most people here are not talking about justice or law, just revenge.
It is not human rights law the one that compels UK to allow this person to stay, it is EU law. He is a European citizen and cannot be deported from a European country.
Is this the same government that went into a foreign sovereign country, attacked it, killed hundred of thousands and lead it into chaos in the name of democracy, rule of law and human rights? Those seeking revenge (don't give justice a bad name by naming it), will they agree when other societies cut hands and stone to death people as part of their judicial process? Are those claiming that things should be put as they were before a teenager killed a man, willing to live in the poverty that they would live if England leaves the EU and gives back all what took from the former colonies without their populations consent? Be decent and praise this very correct and balanced article.

F. Barrio, London, UK

The whole situation is a mess.
He should not even be a British problem, he should not have been in the UK to begin with.
How long has he served for murder? 12 years? Reformed or not, It's a travesty which ever way you look at.

Newcastle, Tyneside, UK

The usual drivel that I have come to expect from a country now used to crawling on its knees than standing on its own two feet. Why can't he be deported? Australia did exactly the same with the UK-born paedpohile Robert Excell who had moved out when he was 10 and was deported at the age of 66, despite having never been back to the UK in the interim. If they don't like real justice they should learn how to behave. Simple really.

Grevill Walbrooke-Soames, Sydney , Australia

I was the victim of an attempted rape by a Sierra Leoneon national who in similar circumstances was not deported as the Asylum and Immigration Tribunal ruled that as he came to the UK aged 7 he has no affliation with any other country. The ruling also quoted Article 8 of the ECHR. However that article has exemptions "except such as is in accordance with the law and ...public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others."

So why is this ruling allowed??? I only hope that the Appeal against this ruling is successful and my sympathy to Mrs Lawrence whose turmoil over this must be imense.

Gabrielle Browne, London, England

It brings up the question of responsibility of a specific kind of criminality that is very much connected to immigration although the individual is effectively British. Everyday I watch afro-carribean youth in Hackney who are certainly nominally British yet pursue an identity which isn't remotely concerned with a social contract with the country they have grown up in. In much the way a racist would judge them primarily in terms of the colour of their skin they have opted out on the same basis. It ain't 1974 or 1979 or 1987 - there is now a quite distinct problem in second generation immigration as well as recently arrived immigrants. I stress this isn't so neatly dealt with as Learco Chindamo, it's what allows him, encourages him in the first place. Oh, and that does not mean gang culture or whatever is OUR PROBLEM! What exactly can you do!? Listen up, kids... Yeah, right.

leon huff, london, london

Whether Chindamo is a British citizen or not is irrelevant, he is a result of our society and that therefore is our problem.This is not a debate of whether he is to serve longer in prison or not, it is a debate of whether we are going to acknowledge the problems within this country that we have caused.He is a product of our lack of compassion,hope and inspiration that plagues this nation as we speak.It is time for us to progress and to get out of this selfish middle class cloud that seems to have swept over the country.Where have the aspirations of the youth gone - they have been destroyed by the negative attitude this country has come to adopt.Its time to break the cycle once and for all.The saying prevention is better than a cure has never been more true.

Toby, Exeter,

It is precisely this kind of wrong headed sentiment which is giving our justice system such a bad name. How do know nothing apologists get jobs commenting on matters like this? Miles talks of not allowing feeling to influence decisions, if we had no feelings we would need no justice. This is plain stupidity. It is an arguement purely to defend the interests of those law makers who are unable to deliver justise. If we cannot have the death penalty for these types of murders then at least give us banishment and spare the relatives of the victims from watching their killers strut around enjoying a long and fruitful life while they continue to suffer and grieve their loss. This is an idiotic philosphy which will soon be swept away by the tide of anger which it is engendering.

john W, Oldham,

The politicians now trumpeting their wish to deport this thug are the same politicians striving deviously to make Italy and UK two regions of one state. In the EU state, deportation of villains from UK to Italy becomes about as sensible as their deportation from Kent to Yorkshire.

Cyril , Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Bring back the death penalty.

Cato, los angeles, CA

Another nail in the coffin of a once proud and great nation. I appeal to all to sign the Downing street petition.

M Tinsley, London,

it is the sort of madness that is driving decent people out of this country.
Rather like the old style science fiction films where Earth is shortly to dissolve in a ball of flame and the best people to continue the human race are placed in a spaceship for a journey to a planet where they can start anew.
I will not bother to slot in the obvious parallels as if you do not understand it rather makes my case

J Chambers, melton mowbray, uk

"Chindamo was a home-grown, British problem, who moved here when he was six; a dangerous teenager forged by life in a British city, educated at British schools."

No, you're just plain wrong!
He is Italian; his father is Italian; and he should be given every opportunity to join his father in an Italian jail. That is what will do most to give him contact with his family.

Desmond Persaud, Wimbledon, London, UK

Come on people. Its this wishy washy liberal viewpoint that is constantly undermining our society. Good people need protecting first and foremost. A safety net to protect unjust treatment for criminals is desireable. Currently the balance is overwhelmingly the wrong way. Thugs get so many free shots. The backlash will come and when it does the wishy washy liberals will be 100% to blame for the situation they are creating.

jim curtis, Blackpool,

Poor Mrs Lawrence...She (and the rest of us) will just have to accept that we are stuck with this kind of riff-raff. However much one may deplore the fact, Alice Miles is right. Someone who came to the UK at the age of six is our problem, whether we like it or not (and I don't like it one bit, but there you are...).

J.Fletcher, Canterbury, UK

As usual Alice Miles gets it wrong, our society is very capable of producing criminals like him but to say his actions have no link to his life in Italy? his father is a dangerous gang member and as Chindamo has decided to follow in his fathers footsteps he should go back to Italy.
For Miles to say we should take pride in being weak, and liberal and in having no sense of pride in our country or in any attempt to protect ourselves from every do gooder and criminal is wrong.
The human rights Act is in essence, as envisaged a good thing. but that is the crux "envisaged". Since it was passed it has been warped, twisted and defiled until it does not balance the paramount needs of citizens in this country with that of protecting abuses against immigrants.
Leaving 1000 criminals to wander our streets and commit more crimes because of their human rights removes any balance in the law. Now one more.
The Act must be removed from our lives, and Chindamo from amongst us.

Paul Phillips, London,

Just the sort of wet liberal nonsense that has landed us where we are.

Time and again, the human rights laws are seen to protect the perpetrators of crime, whilst the victims get no protection.

Time and again we see soft sentencing sending the message that the underclass don't actually have much to fear from the law. It will soon cost more in fines to drive in a cycle lane that it will to rob old ladies in the street.

Tell me, Ms Miles. Who speaks for the human rights of the man who was murdered?

The way I see it, then someone breaks into a house or assaults someone, they forfeit their human rights.

Get back to the real world. And have the guts to print this comment. No? Whose human rights have I violated?

Dave, Notts , UK

Wow Alice you've brought a lump to my throat. My chest is swelling with pride. First off, we give this murdereing thug a lenient sentence in an 'open' prison. We then release him as a young man proven capable of extreme violence. Finally, we have the deceny to recognise his human rights, and not kick him out of the country (because he's a 'home-grown, British problem'). How well would his human rights be recognised in the rest of Europe ? Not so well I suspect.

Perhaps those outside Britain see 'British humanity' as merely being soft on crime and punishment. I would.

tosh, Manchester, England

The solution to the dilemma is really quite simple, murderers having been sentenced to 'life imprisonment' should remain in prison until they die.

The notion that criminals rehabilitate is really a triumph of liberal fantasy over the reality of human nature. Training courses merely result in more articulate criminals not reformed ones.

Peter Mason, Chelmsford,

"The law is our best attempt at putting “humanity” into effect, for everyone, equally and objectively."

Er, no it isn't, Alice - the law is a system of rules recognized by a country, both adopted and implemented by its parliament, and designed to regulate the actions of its members. Compliance is enforced by the imposition of penalties should said member transgress, largely in the hope that the consequence of such imposition outweighs, to the perpetrator, any potential advantage over committing said transgression.

Nothing about equality and objectivity there, I'm afraid. Humanity is there, but it concerns the imposition of penalties and is governed by our past - we used to hang people, but we don't any more - and humanity is thus directed entirely towards the perpetrator of the crime. And that's the problem...

Time and again, British law is seen to show compassion for the perpetrator, and contempt for the victim. If this were the USA, Chindamo would be deported, no question.

SM Winslade, Chesham/Bucks, UK

When Chindamo committed murder, in my view he set aside all his rights as a British citizen. His sentence of life should mean life.
I dont believe he has any human or civil rights. How can he expect to be treated the same as a law abiding citizen.

If we have to release him then not on our streets please.

e.jones , merseyside,

The murdering thug should still be in prison serving hard labour for another 20 years, or as some might quaintly put it, three life sentences.

Phil de Buquet, Newport, England

Alice Mile's reasoning, Comment 21/08/07, about British Humanity is unbalanced by ignoring the Human Right of the
widowed Mrs Lawrence who is only briefly mentioned to provide a reference point.

Her political correct attitude biased towards the criminal fails to recommend full compensation of the victim, the re-instatement of her personal circumstances before the killing of her husband. This may be difficult but would be a correct starting point for discussion rather than taking the side of the criminal

Government officials and civil servants may have have made a mistake by expressing a particular view but Chindamo has killed.

Chindamo may be home grown British problem but is he a British citizen? If not, I support the view of the Government official who stated that he would be deported at the end of his sentence. Basta.

Eckart Jack, Cambridge, UK

Are you serious?

Alice, Stevenage, UK

Law has nothing to do with 'humanity' - it never has. Law is really nothing more than a series of rules which we use to administer civil society. As such it has to reflect the generally accepted social mores and policies of our society e.g. debt recovery and the law of bankruptcy are not much concerned with 'humanity' - more with balancing the interest of creditor and debtor.

Further, the law must balance competing interests and priorities. If there is ever a disconnect between 'the law' and what society regards as fair or right or the law does not allow for these competing interests then the law falls into disrepute and the rule of law is imperilled.

Ms Lawrence was not suggesting some subversion of the rule of law. She did however wonder whether this law fairly reflected the social mores of our society and fairly balance competing interests. Too often it seems to be something that is asserted by those who deny the rights of others or treat the law generally with contempt.

H, London,

Since you imply that he became dangerous due to his growing up in a British city, you should be content with the fact that the authorities have tried to ensure that he would have to endure the harsh life in such a city. Furthermore, it doesn't really matter since when he lives in Britain for the fact that he is not a citizen. He is more like to turn up to be just another recidivist instead of getting rehabilitated. Just twelve years for a human life?

Richard L, Hannover, FRG

Thank you for a clear and balanced article. I can imagine the intense feelings the Laurence family will be going through. Why should someone who has perpetrated such a crime be allowed to rebuild his life - perhaps laugh again, have relationships and so on. However as you so clearly say this was a home grown problem. This gang culture needs to be fought by all of us not only as a tribute to Mr Laurence but also to prevent such tragedies recurring. And how can we do that? Well what about lobbying the Government to set up a variant of the Venezuelan 'Systema' of music teaching to promote community values? What about media types demonstrably giving up drugs to end that market and its attendant evils? What about donating to a fund to support Libby Purves' Batman and the Kids Company? More ideas welcome. Lets challenge ourselves and this neurotic culture where drink, drugs and violence is glorified.

Robert Grundy, London,

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Car leasing


The clever way to lease a new car is with Car leasing made simple™

New Audi A5 Coupe from £399.99 inc VAT

2009
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Jobs

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Intelligence Analyst

£24,250 - £30,346
MI5
London

Finance & Corporate Services Manager

£60,000
The Environment Agency
Bristol

Programme Manager

Up to £90K
Boots
Midlands

Sales Professionals

OTE £85k
Credit Protection Association
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Properties

Rushmore Condo's

Luxury Condo's in Manhattan with NYC views

Diadem Homes

The best new homes in Wimbledon?

Holidays

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Virgin Atlantic 2009 Cruise Deals

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Amazing Cruise Deals With Virgin Holidays Cruises

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