I can't help but feel that this article focuses far to much on Islam. We see that they arise in cultural hotspots, not only by practicsers of Islam so why not leave Islam out of it altogether, there are many bits in the first testament for instance which if practiced today would be equally condemned
james l, London, Middlesex
I do feel sorry for the women in this culture, not however when they sit upstairs whilst their Sister/ Mother/ Aunt is being brutally raped and murdered.
When becoming a British citizen you accept our laws. We welcome new cultures into our society and beleive in basic human rights, but if a culture is clearly in direct violation of our rights as Bristish citizens then surely they should not be allowed citizenship and more should be done to stop illegal immigrants entering Britian and brining this sort of brutality with them.
Amy. C, London,
British citizens are subject to the British legal system and as such these men will justifiably be punished accordingly.
C D Learmont-Hughes, Merseyside,
Twenty years is not nearly enough.
M Brown, Glasgow,
The middle eastern culture of the bedouins is a harsh and primitive one. The British installed the Bedouins as Kings in Saudi Arabia in thier War against the civilised Ottomen empire. Now they kill South Asian maids on trumped up charges.
Middle Eastern Primitive culture should not be confused with Islam which is an enlightened philosophy . Those who will use islam or Christianity to commit crimes have done so and will continue to do so.
Islam in Asia (Indonesia and Malaysia) appears a great deal more civilised than what is depicted here.
Animals in the form of humans such as this criminal subculture of men are found in every society. I had a girl-friend in Australia (a white girl of Anglo-Celtic background) who at a most intimate moment confided a rape she suffered in the hands of a country yokel from the same background. She was so fearful after the event that she never mentioned it to anyone. She said that this was a subcultural character in her community. I had to listen in shock
Ravi, Melbourne, Aus
Its crimes like this that gives bringing back the death penalty a solid argument.
Jason, Calgary, Canada
This is not Islam. This is not what Islam says. Islam preaches patience and rational actions or reactions. What this Kurdish family is doing is what their regional culture says. But Islam differs from the cultures of differemt regions. It has its own rules and regulations.
Ansarul Haq, Mumbai, India
When you invite a visitor into your home it is a requirement for them to respect your home, and to abide by the 'house rules'. I doubt if there is anyone that would think it ok to go into someone else's home and then start doing whatever it is they want! So, why is it any different when requesting to live in a country that is not the country of one's birth? It should be no different - respect for the 'new' country and those living there should be naturally part of the deal, and also not wanting to offend.
This country has laws, and anyone wanting to live here must surely accept and abide by those laws, and also recognise the best of the values of those already living in this country.
And the onus surely is upon those applying to live in this country, not the other way round? Can we not bring common sense into the equasion, rather than 'political correctness' - which isn't at all correct, and allows these unfortunate situations to arise.
Tarni, London, UK
Yet according to the Muslim council of Britain, Integration is a two way street with the British having to accept this as an example of cultural diversity to 'enrich' britain.
gabe, Dublin, Ireland
How utterly ignorant.
Why, in this particular culture, is the woman's fault and the woman's responsibility not to ever provoke the eye of the wrong man? And why, when a man sexually assaults a woman, is it her fault, and not his for his lack of control?
How sad, and again, how utterly ignorant.
Carmen, Nashville , TN USA
Are these the kind of 'Muslim values' Dr Bari would have us adopt in the UK. The cultures which are Muslim invariably involve the subjugation of women and are therefore incompatible with British law, where men and women are equal.
These so-called 'men' have no honour - they are just viscious thugs. They should not be allowed into this country.
The Government should act to outlaw marriage between close family relatives; should outlaw forced marriage and should prevent the importation of spouses unless the person is over 25 and in a private interview with immigration officers confirms that the marriage has been freely entered into.
A law should be enacted which prosecutes all the male members of a family who are involved in a so-called 'honour killing' plus any women who are proven to have participated. The main perpetrators should be jailed ... the wider family members should be deported to their home countries and their possessions in this country forfeit.
Donna Walker, Effingham, Surrey
Reading this makes me feel physically sick, I find it outrageous that whenever someone talks about limiting immigration they are branded a racist. The fact of the matter is there are some nasty people out there and since we already have plenty of bad people here it is the duty of immigration officials to filter any more bad apples coming in. Its not racist.
Enough is enough, this kind of thing needs to be cracked down and fathers like this need to be entrapped - allowed to believe they can get away with murder and then arrested when there's enough evidence to put them away.
Jayson Bank, London, UK
What an horrific tale. Clearly most westerners will find it very hard to identify with such beliefs and actions. Similarly many Muslims consider that many of our standards - the flaunting of sexuality, the excessive public drinking by both men and women, freedom to speak and believe what you like - are equally unacceptable. The problems come when such diverse cultures and belief systems come in close contact through the ever growing movements of people. Why do those with strict muslim or other belief systems chose to come and live where their values are at such loggerheads with the societies they live amongst? I will never seek to live in fundamentalist muslim country ,where my wife and daughter could find themselves as second class citizens. Neither would I move to some backwoods community in the USA where the fact that I am an atheist will be held against me. Some belief systems are totally incompatible and tolerance is not an option.
Kevin Miller, Tonbridge,
The problem arises from acting on the premise that the people seeking sanctuary or to live in this milieu value its culture, and will seek to be acculturated. Assimilation is not the goal. They continue to govern their lives based on the values of the community in which they were formed.
Has anyone questioned the qualification of these people for asylum status? Was this claim a contrived pretense? It seems that "the brothers" were actively involved in gulling the authorities by providing falsified documents, which seems to be a rather routine activity in qualifying asylum seekers.
The problem lies not with the people seeking a place to live and then seeking to impose their conditions on the general community, but rather the passivity and laxity of the sovereign, which has even conceded the authority of sharia courts and accorded their decisions the imprimatur of governmental authority.
It bodes ill for a country with such low self-esteem that it accepts such disrespect and activity.
Johnson, USA,
If there are any girls or women reading this and find themselves in a position to worry about family honour or forced marriage, I advise them to contact the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation in London via www.ikwro.org.uk
Joanne Payton, London, UK
I loathe to admit it but I was just thinking the same thing Edward.
D. Chisolm, London,
I can't help but feel that this article focuses far to much on Islam. We see that they arise in cultural hotspots, not only by practicsers of Islam so why not leave Islam out of it altogether, there are many bits in the first testament for instance which if practiced today would be equally condemned
james l, London, Middlesex
I do feel sorry for the women in this culture, not however when they sit upstairs whilst their Sister/ Mother/ Aunt is being brutally raped and murdered.
When becoming a British citizen you accept our laws. We welcome new cultures into our society and beleive in basic human rights, but if a culture is clearly in direct violation of our rights as Bristish citizens then surely they should not be allowed citizenship and more should be done to stop illegal immigrants entering Britian and brining this sort of brutality with them.
Amy. C, London,
British citizens are subject to the British legal system and as such these men will justifiably be punished accordingly.
C D Learmont-Hughes, Merseyside,
Twenty years is not nearly enough.
M Brown, Glasgow,
The middle eastern culture of the bedouins is a harsh and primitive one. The British installed the Bedouins as Kings in Saudi Arabia in thier War against the civilised Ottomen empire. Now they kill South Asian maids on trumped up charges.
Middle Eastern Primitive culture should not be confused with Islam which is an enlightened philosophy . Those who will use islam or Christianity to commit crimes have done so and will continue to do so.
Islam in Asia (Indonesia and Malaysia) appears a great deal more civilised than what is depicted here.
Animals in the form of humans such as this criminal subculture of men are found in every society. I had a girl-friend in Australia (a white girl of Anglo-Celtic background) who at a most intimate moment confided a rape she suffered in the hands of a country yokel from the same background. She was so fearful after the event that she never mentioned it to anyone. She said that this was a subcultural character in her community. I had to listen in shock
Ravi, Melbourne, Aus
Its crimes like this that gives bringing back the death penalty a solid argument.
Jason, Calgary, Canada
This is not Islam. This is not what Islam says. Islam preaches patience and rational actions or reactions. What this Kurdish family is doing is what their regional culture says. But Islam differs from the cultures of differemt regions. It has its own rules and regulations.
Ansarul Haq, Mumbai, India
When you invite a visitor into your home it is a requirement for them to respect your home, and to abide by the 'house rules'. I doubt if there is anyone that would think it ok to go into someone else's home and then start doing whatever it is they want! So, why is it any different when requesting to live in a country that is not the country of one's birth? It should be no different - respect for the 'new' country and those living there should be naturally part of the deal, and also not wanting to offend.
This country has laws, and anyone wanting to live here must surely accept and abide by those laws, and also recognise the best of the values of those already living in this country.
And the onus surely is upon those applying to live in this country, not the other way round? Can we not bring common sense into the equasion, rather than 'political correctness' - which isn't at all correct, and allows these unfortunate situations to arise.
Tarni, London, UK
Yet according to the Muslim council of Britain, Integration is a two way street with the British having to accept this as an example of cultural diversity to 'enrich' britain.
gabe, Dublin, Ireland
How utterly ignorant.
Why, in this particular culture, is the woman's fault and the woman's responsibility not to ever provoke the eye of the wrong man? And why, when a man sexually assaults a woman, is it her fault, and not his for his lack of control?
How sad, and again, how utterly ignorant.
Carmen, Nashville , TN USA
Are these the kind of 'Muslim values' Dr Bari would have us adopt in the UK. The cultures which are Muslim invariably involve the subjugation of women and are therefore incompatible with British law, where men and women are equal.
These so-called 'men' have no honour - they are just viscious thugs. They should not be allowed into this country.
The Government should act to outlaw marriage between close family relatives; should outlaw forced marriage and should prevent the importation of spouses unless the person is over 25 and in a private interview with immigration officers confirms that the marriage has been freely entered into.
A law should be enacted which prosecutes all the male members of a family who are involved in a so-called 'honour killing' plus any women who are proven to have participated. The main perpetrators should be jailed ... the wider family members should be deported to their home countries and their possessions in this country forfeit.
Donna Walker, Effingham, Surrey
Reading this makes me feel physically sick, I find it outrageous that whenever someone talks about limiting immigration they are branded a racist. The fact of the matter is there are some nasty people out there and since we already have plenty of bad people here it is the duty of immigration officials to filter any more bad apples coming in. Its not racist.
Enough is enough, this kind of thing needs to be cracked down and fathers like this need to be entrapped - allowed to believe they can get away with murder and then arrested when there's enough evidence to put them away.
Jayson Bank, London, UK
What an horrific tale. Clearly most westerners will find it very hard to identify with such beliefs and actions. Similarly many Muslims consider that many of our standards - the flaunting of sexuality, the excessive public drinking by both men and women, freedom to speak and believe what you like - are equally unacceptable. The problems come when such diverse cultures and belief systems come in close contact through the ever growing movements of people. Why do those with strict muslim or other belief systems chose to come and live where their values are at such loggerheads with the societies they live amongst? I will never seek to live in fundamentalist muslim country ,where my wife and daughter could find themselves as second class citizens. Neither would I move to some backwoods community in the USA where the fact that I am an atheist will be held against me. Some belief systems are totally incompatible and tolerance is not an option.
Kevin Miller, Tonbridge,
The problem arises from acting on the premise that the people seeking sanctuary or to live in this milieu value its culture, and will seek to be acculturated. Assimilation is not the goal. They continue to govern their lives based on the values of the community in which they were formed.
Has anyone questioned the qualification of these people for asylum status? Was this claim a contrived pretense? It seems that "the brothers" were actively involved in gulling the authorities by providing falsified documents, which seems to be a rather routine activity in qualifying asylum seekers.
The problem lies not with the people seeking a place to live and then seeking to impose their conditions on the general community, but rather the passivity and laxity of the sovereign, which has even conceded the authority of sharia courts and accorded their decisions the imprimatur of governmental authority.
It bodes ill for a country with such low self-esteem that it accepts such disrespect and activity.
Johnson, USA,
If there are any girls or women reading this and find themselves in a position to worry about family honour or forced marriage, I advise them to contact the Iranian and Kurdish Women's Rights Organisation in London via www.ikwro.org.uk
Joanne Payton, London, UK
I loathe to admit it but I was just thinking the same thing Edward.
D. Chisolm, London,
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