Sean O’Neill: Crime and Security Editor
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Young Muslims are being convicted of thought crimes and branded as terrorists for life, the country’s most prominent Islamic leader has told The Times.
Muhammad Abdul Bari said police and prosecutors were criminalising youths for harbouring “silly thoughts” and were undermining Gordon Brown’s £400 million drive to win Muslim hearts and minds.
Dr Bari, Secretary-General of the Muslim Council of Britain, was commenting ahead of the sentencing today of Samina Malik, a shop assistant who styled herself as “the lyrical terrorist”, wrote poetry in praise of beheadings and joined extremist internet forums.
Malik, 23, burst into tears after an Old Bailey jury convicted her last month under Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000 of “possessing documents likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism”.
She was the first woman to be convicted under the terrorism legislation since the events of September 11.
The trial judge imposed bail conditions which he said amounted to house arrest and warned her that he was keeping sentencing options open.
Dr Bari told The Times: “Many young people download objectionable material from the internet, but it seems that if you are a Muslim then this could lead to terrorist charges, even if you have absolutely no intention to do harm to anyone else.
“Samina’s so-called poetry was certainly very offensive but I don’t believe that this case should really have been a criminal matter.
“Young people may well have some silly thoughts. That should not be criminalised. It is their actions that we should be concerned about.” He said that if police were concerned about Malik they should have placed her under surveillance and detained her if she was involved in “actual terror-related activity”.
Dr Bari added: “Instead, she was prosecuted for what can only be termed really as a thought crime. This should not be of concern just to Muslims, but to all in our society who care about natural justice.
“Her conviction raises a lot of deeply worrying questions about Section 58 of the Terrorism Act and just how incredibly broad its scope is.” He contrasted the stance taken by the police in cases like Malik’s with Gordon Brown’s antiradicalisation initiatives in schools, mosques and youth groups. The Prime Minister spoke in his security statement last month about mentoring programmes, roadshows and other methods to “isolate extremists”.
Dr Bari said that Malik’s conviction and other cases could prove counter-productive. He added: “It is certainly sensible for the Government to work with Muslim groups to counter extremist propaganda.
“This is, we have been told often, part of a ‘hearts and minds’ campaign directed at young British Muslims, but it is difficult to see how Samina’s conviction can do anything other than impair this effort.”
Malik, who worked at W H Smith at Heathrow, wrote crude poems with titles like “How to Behead” which began with the lines: “Hold him/Tie the arms behind his back/And bandage his legs together”.
On the back of a shop till roll, she had scribbled: “The desire within me increases everyday to go for martyrdom. The need to go increases by the second.” Prosecutors said she amassed “a library” of extremist material on her home computer, including the al-Qaeda Manual, the Terrorist’s Handbook, the Mujahidin Poisons Handbook, a manual for a Dragunov sniper rifle, a firearms and RPG handbook and a document entitled “How to Win Hand-to-Hand Fighting”.
Malik was a former St John Ambulance volunteer who had captained her school basketball and football teams in Southall, West London. But she subscribed to extremist websites and was arrested in October last year after her name appeared on the fringes of another investigation.
Giving evidence at her trial, she said that she had originally called herself “lyrical babe” on the internet but changed the name to “lyrical terrorist” to impress men. “It was only because it was a cool name, it doesn’t mean I’m a terrorist, it’s just a username,” she said. “This was me showing off, trying to be something I wasn’t, trying to get popularity from male users.”
Acting Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of Scotland Yard’s Counter-Terrorism Command, described Malik as someone who held violent, extremist views which she shared with other like-minded people.
“Merely possessing this material is a serious criminal offence,” he said.
Terror targets
Section 58 covers the collection of information
The offence is defined as collecting or making a record of information likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism
It is a defence for a person charged under Section 58 to prove that they had a “reasonable excuse for his action or possession”
A convicted person can be jailed for up to 10 years, fined, or both
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As an American cousin who closely follows these events, and cares deeply about the outcome, I am amazed at how many Brits, while in the very midst of this massive cultural invasion, still seem conflicted about these issues.
Here in the States, one could argue (mistakenly I think), that this Muslim threat to our shared Western Culture is still in the "theoretical stage"; but you folks are right in the middle of the battle. Yet, incomprehensibly, you still have people expressing their opinions above that by fighting back, by at least TRYING to preserve that ancient and honorable BRITISH culture of yours, you are becoming some sort of a Stalinist state. Wow.
How in the world can you possibly fight the fight to protect your wonderful civilization when you have so many of your own citizens against you?
The entire Western World is in peril, and half of the Western World refuses to even acknowledge this threat for fear of being impolite.
God help us all.
Roger W. Gardner, Boston, MA USA
Personally I think that this so called Dr Bari needs some further education. All crimes start off as a thought. Behaviour does not happen in isolation, thoughts, feelings and behaviour are all connected. Tjhoughts are dangerous not silly! The misguided Samina Malik put her evil thoughts (not silly thoughts, please do not minimise them!) on paper and acted out certain behaviours which were promoting terrorism. I think it is great that she was caught and made to face up to her behaviour before more innocent lives were lost. It is unacceptable to behave in this way when will people learn, she got her just deserts!
Stephen, London,
Having lived in Eastern Europe in the seventies, I am frightened just how many parallels are emerging between them and us in the policing of the so called free speech and free thoughts. I remember the time that when stopped by a policeman I was allowed to tell him to go to hell. He actually had to have SOME very good reason to stop me let alone arrest me. Now it seems I can be sentenced for reading incorrect material. Just as in Stalinist Russia. Frightening.
Eva
Eva , Worthing, UK
As far as the heads of the Muslim faith ar concerned it would appear that justice is a one way issue, where if you write poems about terrorism these are just 'silly thoughts' but if you should call a teddy mohammed you should be shot, or even worse should you make a joke about the aforementioned icon the whole of the muslim world riots. Somewhat of an inbalance me thinks.
And Will, Wenzhou, China why not let her off, after all she is only a terrorist working at an airport.... you fool.
Voice of reason, Manchester, UK
It's funny, you can't condemn someone for hate spreading but you can for naming e teddy bear... support for terrorism it as bad as participating on it and it as nothing to do with freedom of speech, if you are inciting violence your freedom ends when someone else's freedom is in jeopardy. Said this i hate religion it just brings sadness and death.
i.c., chiswick,
RIP free speech.
JD, London, UK
So, Muslims don't like what we Brits have had to put up with for years as we try to accomodate them?
What about our young folk that are being branded racists at every turn- even from their toddler years.
As for what Maxine says- let's not arrest people for reading or writing materials we find unsuitable- is she joking?
stevie, edinburgh, scotland
In this global age, it's Muslims that are doing undermining tolerance of their faith.
Your fellow brothers & sisters in religion, called for the beheading of a teacher who allowed children of your religion to call a stuffed toy Mohammed.
And the point about cartoons has already been made.
Freedom of speech you don't support - again as has been pointed out in the case of Salman Rushdie.
W Smith, Oldham,
I was deeply dismayed by the (IMO) miscarriage of justice for writing poetry! Thought crimes are very much the "vogue" of this government. How long before "pre-crime" (a la Minority Report) comes to pass.
I had always thought that intent without action was free speech!
I haven't read her 'poetry' but in trms of bloodthirstiness and incitement to hatred and war, I cannot believe that it exceeds that of Beowolf! And that is considered an epic literary piece.
We are a long way down the slippery slope to complete loss of our hard won freedoms. And those who cry "all in the name of security" are perhaps the greatest enemy of all!
Tim, Bournemouth, UK
Correction Sean Sha;or (Looks like you can't even spell your name correctly) Islam is derived from the root word in arabic meaning PEACE. Majority of muslims adhere to the firm principles of the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammed (Peace and Blessings be upon Him) or religious tolerance and civil participation with all human beings of all faiths and thoughts. Who better to lead this example, non other than the Prophet Muhammed. We do not label all Christians - Terrorists because the IRA were acting as a terrorist group then why label all muslims the same.
If anything, current policies directed at the muslim community will only people to put their backs up against the wall.
Karl Hans, Cambridge, UK
We have finally got to the stage where there is such a thing in England as a THOUGHT Crime.
Possession of information is a crime, not USING it . Just having it.
What happens next? The police and government decide that the possession of the Works of Karl Marx is a crime because of his statement "The workers have nothing to lose but their chains...Workers of the world Unite." After all these very words helped overthrow the Russian Czar.
I have a copy of Mein Kampf. In Germany, certainly until recently that alone made me a Criminal.
Every time we use a draconian law such as the ill thought out and hastily passed Law she was tried under we do two things reduce our rights and make England appear foolish in the eyes of the world.
We need Anti Terror Laws that are sensible. Not Laws that punish silly rather immature young people, but laws that put those who commit VIOLENT acts behind bars for the whole of their lives with no possibility of parole.
Howard, Basildon, England
Oh really, âSheâs youngâ?, well actually at 23 she is older that a lot of the young men in our Services who are stationed in Iraq. I somehow imagine that if a BNP supporter published such filth against Muslims on a popular public website, the right to freedom of speech & thoughts would not be an acceptable excuse.
DJC, manchester,
to rajib, where do you stand on the subject of people downloading child pornography? to sean, due to the Koran Islamic doctrine is pretty clear, does it mention 'extreme violence against all non-Muslims'?
mount, dorset, gb
It is so sad that thought has become a crime....forget freedom of speech, do we even have freedom of thought?
Samina is a victim of a vicious witch hunt of young Muslims who possessed some articles....allegedly terrorist material!
Questions I would like answered are:
What was in those manuals, that is so dangerous?
In which manner could they been used by terrorist?
What was the difference between her poems and gangster rap that deem carrying guns, stealing and violence as cool?
Why are people like Laura Mansfield and Evan F. Kohlmann allowed to have websites which have video links and downloads of Al Qaeda and not arrested under terrorism act?
If i were to visit their web site, and down load a file, does that make me a browser because I am a white clean shaven male but a terrorist because I am an Asian Muslim with a beard?
Conclusion: STATE TERRORISM in a land that has a JUDICIAL APARTHEID, one law for the people, but a completely different one for the Muslims.
rajib, bedfordshire, uk
The Muslim community is not being blamed for "silly thoughts" but for their large-scale support of terrorism in line with the Islamic doctrine of encouraging extreme violence against all non-Muslims.
Sean Sha;or, Coventry, UK
Against the majority view in Britain this Labour government has bent over backwards to pander to Muslims in Britain and has tried to secure a conviction with a politically motivated charge against the BNP on two occasions. Unlike this case where Samina Malik was caught bang to rights and found guilty by a jury, the BNP cases were found not guilty by another jury. The anti-hate laws had been crafted specifically to protect minority groups like Muslims but this wannabe female terrorist broke the law and was very lucky to get off with a suspended sentence. The suspended sentence was almost certainly politically motivated as any member of the BNP carrying out the same offence would be given at least a 5 year sentence. The end result of this and similar cases has done more harm to race relations than even the BNP or Samina Malik can achieve on their own. For Mr. Bari to say a worker at air side Heathrow airport is just a silly girl is ridiculous as she's clearly a major security threat.
Mike, Alicante, Spain
its very dangerous to go down the road of convicting young people for radical thoughts and writing.If she committed an act of hurting any one then lets deal with that but lets not arrest people for reading or writing materials we find unsuitable.
maxine, london,
MO, Margaret wrote: âI seem to remember that the IRA are Catholics and they blew people up, but I don't remember people going around blaming Catholics. Was that because they had white faces?â. Very-very wrong logic and parallelism. IRA carried out a campaign on the name of their national independence; the fact that they were Catholics was just a platform. The fanatics of Islam undertake a terrorist campaign on the name of Islam and absolutely for no other reason.
Nick Andrew, London,
"âThis was me showing off, trying to be something I wasnât, trying to get popularity from male users.â "
What a community Muhammad Abdul Bari does represent. Male users being attracted by a female decapitation and bombing fetisher, and the female who fantasies about it. But then she does state that it was the kaffir she enjoyed being butchered, so I guess it is not all that bad to this Muslim leader - just girlish âsilly thoughtsâ actually.
kris, Pass Christian,
I read some of the comments left here and I want to weep. If you don't value other people's freedom of speech - even the freedom to say stupid offensive things - then you can't complain if your own freedom is taken away. Which is exactly what is happening, year by year. Complain? You lot probably won't even notice!
Amanda, yes that is exactly the idea - we should wait until people commit criminal acts before we arrest them. It is called justice. We used to be good at it, once.
Rule Britannia.
Tom Wilde, London,
In a country where a ten year old boy is arrested and spends time in a police cell for throwing a cocktail sausage at someone this comes as no surprise to me.
For those who think that the Koran is a nasty book full of hatred and violence I suggest you try reading our own Holy Bible because that is not exactly all sweetness and light either!
Jeffers, Maidstone, UK
She was sentenced for possession of a terrorist manual, not for 'thought crime'. Revocation of citizenship + deportation to country of origin would be a much more effective deterrent to others.
adam bradford, London,
I seem to remember that the IRA are Catholics and they blew people up, but I don't remember people going around blaming Catholics. Was that because they had white faces?
MO, Margate, England
It happens with other ideologies such as Nazi propaganda. Promotion of hatred has to be dealt with and Islam cannot be exempted from its responsabilities on the grounds that it has many «restless» followers or it is supposed to be a religion. Degrading ideologies should be duly adressed for what they really are, what they represent and the consequenses of what they postulate, irrespective of their peculiarities and attempts at general intimidation.
Manuel Barros, Lisbon, Portugal
No doubt muslims will then in future excuse Mr Salman Rushdie, or some danish cartoonists, or Theo Van Gough the filmmaker for "silly thoughts" ?
HYPOCRITES !!!!!!!
Paul, London, UK
Is it a sexist decision or not? If a man confirmed repeatedly that he wishes and is ready to kill someone else, will certainly get a heavy imprisonment, but here because she is a woman, she walks free.
Furthermore, we are dissolute or not? David Irving is jailed for denying the holocaust and yet a hate and bloodshed advocate and promoter, a religious fanatic, walks free!
Chris Andrew, London,
Can we please treat this stupid girl as she deserves, give her an ASBO and a community order sentance and be done with it.
hytron5, bishops stortford, herts
This is a perfectly legitimate case, and i think an appropriate outcome. If someone had downloaded information on how to abduct a child and form a paedophile ring then they would be arrested and no complaint would be made. This girls has also downloaded material that could harm individuals and groups. I do not understand why you think this should be allowed to happen.
Chris Tierney, Brighton, England
The british government pulls out all the stops to rescue a British teacher from a 15 day jail sentence in Sudan for calling a teddy bear Mohammed thereby insulting Islam, whereby a misguided girl who plays out her fantasies on the Internet in "democratic" Britain is deemed a terrorist without actually having harmed anyone. I think Sudan comes out on top for magnanimity, since at least the British teacher was released.
elizabeth williams, bassano romano, italy
Dr Bari is a disgrace.
Some Muslims are criminalised because some Muslims who think differently to most Muslims decided to get on buses and tubes and murder as many people as they could.
The single biggest religious hate crime in this century was committed by these minority Muslims against non-Muslims. Young Muslims who celebrate, imitate or support them should go to prison.
Stephen, Swindon, UK
If islam were a political organisation instead of a religion it would be banned as a terrorist organisation.
K Gardner, W Riding, UK
At what point does a "Lyrical Terrorist"? become an actual terrorist ? You have to draw a line somewhere at some point. I mean is it a joke to write what she did on the back of a till receipt, I doubt it, it is about as funny as a non muslim stating he or she had a gun written on the back of a boarding pass at an airport surely. The difference only being that the arrest of a non muslim does not cause the same backlash. It seems now even judges are worried about a conviction.
KW, Wirral , UK
"MERELY possessing this material is a serious criminal offence". The operative word is "merely", contradicting the idea that it can simultaneously be "serious".
What a grotesque, farcical outrage this "offence" is. That it ever got through Parliament illustrates all too clearly that our legislature is not fit for purpose and our media failing in it's democratic duty to expose and attack such gross abuse of power.
If we carry on like this, we deserve all we get when all our laws are dictated to us from Brussels.
This law is a gross violation of our basic human rights, giving the authorities not just the power to police what we say but even what we read and look at.
What is happening to our society when such a law can be brought in with barely a word of protest!
Any and everyone who places any value on education, thinking (let alone expression), privacy, or freedom should be demanding this law's repeal.
Harlan Leyside, Basildon,
The same happens with other ideologies such as Nazi propaganda. Promotion of hatred has to be dealt with and Islam cannot be exempted from its responsibilities on the grounds that it has many «restless» followers or it is supposed to be a religion. Degrading ideologies should be duly addressed for what they really are, what they represent and the consequences of what they postulate, irrespective of their peculiarities and attempts at general intimidation.
Manuel Barros, Lisbon, Portugal
This is yet another example of the POLICE STATE that we have actually now become. On the one hand you have the fascist Police whose only interest seems to be using American Express cards to spend taxpayers money on themselves, and then we have naive young people who have done something perhaps stupid for which the facist police then take action. Then we have the incompetent Labour Govt who let all and sundry into the Country and don't even know how many or who is here.
This Country now stinks.
Simon, London, UK
What do you think is going to go through the minds of young people when they see all the excitement of terrorist attacks and religious wars in the news?
Malcolm McLean, Bradford, UK
âpossessing documents likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorismâ.
Many of us own a copy of the A-Z Guide to London which is "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorismâ.
Are we all going to be charged with an offence under Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000?
Harley Quilliam, Camberley, England
even when we catch them red handed, muslims say its not fair lol
george whyte, bristol,
Imagine the outcry if the Arch Bishop of Canterbury said a parallel thing as MCB DR Bari if a Christian fundamentalist was caught wallowing in similar stuff on gloating on killing Muslims. ( let alone if the BNP made a similar comment)
Lets have enough of selective pandering to MCB as an apologists for Islamofascist evil that is blighting life in this country in travel security cost and "fortress Britain".
Peter, Reading, UK
Give her a vey long sentence. She wants martydom, give it to her.
The idea of the British, or indeed any government, having to kow-tow to the Muslim community is ridiculous. Muslims should integrate and become good citizens of the country where they live or get out and go Saudi Arabia or some such place.
Brian O Cinneide, eThekwini, Africa Borwa
so according to Bari, we should wait for her to commit a crminal act ie blow some people up, before we arrest her.
i think she was just a stupid girl who thought it was cool to talk about terrorism & beheadings, but now she - & all the other malleable kids who think 'martyrdom' is the height of cool - can learn that actually, planning to kill people is serious, & maybe decide to avoid the topic. a deterrent is a good idea
amanda, london,
Considering the propensity of Moslems to shout 'islamophobia' at every instance when people rightly question, criticise and condemn the abhorrent intolerance and violence of Islam which is emphatically rooted in both the Koran and the supporting Hadiths and Sira and the degrading Sharia law, we should dismiss this latest attempt at victimhood by Moslems with the contempt which it deserves.
Kate, london,
put her in jail and ruin her life, then you'll have a real terrorist on your hands.
Will, Wenzhou, China