Richard Ford and Fiona Hamilton
We've made some changes
to The Sunday Times
The police chief of the county where a father of three was killed as he confronted a teenage gang urged the public last night to continue to challenge young hoodlums.
The comments by Peter Fahy, Chief Constable of Cheshire, are likely to heighten controversy in a case which sparked furore after it emerged one of Garry Newlove’s killers had been bailed hours before the murder.
General police advice tells the public to leave crimefighting to the police. But Mr Fahy told ITV1’s Granada Reports: “I personally think we cannot have a society where law-abiding people like Garry Newlove cannot go out and challenge people damaging their property, otherwise we’ll just have the yobs ruling the streets.”
Mr Newlove, 47, suffered massive head injuries after confronting a gang of teenagers about vandalism to cars outside his home in Warrington.
Jack Straw, the Justice Secretary, came to the defence of judges and magistrates faced with controversial bail decisions last night, saying that judicial decisions were difficult to make and were conducted to a “very high standard”.
How the new breed of location based mobile services can find your nearest cashpoint, restaurant or wi-fi hotspot
Enjoy screenings of all the classic films you love, plus take advantage of two-for-one tickets
We explore leisure activities that are safe and suitable for all of the family
Times Online's new TV show helps you make the right decisions for your pet
Are you California dreaming? Explore the wonders of the Golden State. Also enter our fantastic competition
See the best entries in this year's competition
Your brain is capable of more than you might think...
An interactive preview of the brand new For Your Eyes Only exhibition
The latest travel news plus the best hotels and gadgets for business travellers

Love Sudoku? Play our brand new interactive game: with added functionality and daily prizes

Are you irritable when you return from work? Drained of emotion? You could be suffering from boreout
Prepare for some shock and awe, petrol lovers. Despite the greens trying to wipe it out, the car is about to offer us the most exciting year ever
We've trawled the brochures and websites to find this summer’s best holidays for every taste and budget

Overseas contacts and local business information

A treasure trove of baubles, booty and stylish quests

Compare energy prices from suppliers

2006
£189,500
NW England
2008/08
£169,950
NW England
2007/57
£35,000
South East England
Great car insurance deals online
Circa £82,000 per annum
Birmingham Women's Hospital
Birmingham
To £28k
Barclaycard
Various (outside London)
£
Up to £66,000 per annum
Hertfordshire County Council
South East
To £38k
Barclaycard
Northampton/Liverpool
2 Bathrooms, Balcony and Garden
Beautiful Gardens w/ stunning Thames Views
Dining, Shopping & Riverside Pk
Mortgages, bank acc & money transfers to help you buy abroad
Explore mystical Jordan
From £1030 for 7nts 4*
to USA's Most Cosmopolitan City; San Francisco!
£POA
Book Now for Winter 08/09 and Get 10% off!
Great travel insurance deals online
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times. Search globrix.com to buy or rent UK property.
© Copyright 2008 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
Provided that, as a law abiding citizen, I was allowed to use a weapon, I would quite happily do something.
However, as I'm not, I'd be putting my life on the line.
As the Police, who are better equipped than I am, are not prepared to do anything, why should I ?
If the Police and Courts continue to be ineffective, we will end up reverting to something like the wild west with vigilantes dealing with the low life.
Brian E, Beaconsfield, England
I've had to call the police twice in my life. Both times I have to say they were very helpful and professional. Unfortunately these guys, who wanted to help out, whilst trying every avenue were constrained by stupid (their words) rules imposed on them from above... So - not the fault of the police but of those above them. That is to say of the restrictions placed on them by the law.
The law protects only those who do not abide by it in this country.
Louise, London,
To protect and Serve" primarily shown on the side of police vehicles in los angeles, california. each state in america maintains their own slogans on the side of ploice cruisers.
the story i just read of the youth who kicked a man to death is some what errily familiar to the youth gangs here in america. i believe the current difference in america is that the youth gangs of today are more heavily armed that the local police.
as trite and belated as it does sound and as frustrated neighbors and neighborhoods are becoming due to "street crimes invading the burbs", it has to begin with neighborhood watches, citizen patrols, ride alongs with police crews, neighbors banding together to watch and protect each other, cameras positioned in areas of escalating crime, more foot patrols and drive by's during hours of high crime. there are ways to protext and watch over. if all fails, grab your bat and go hunting.
ME, lacey, washington
I understand what you all feel about being let down by the police, but please trust me that it is not us who are letting you down. We have government targets and quotas to hit and if they are not met, then the Chief Constables will be dragged over the coals and the Home Office will reduce the funding that the force gets next year (one way or another).
The Chief Constables will then drag those below them over the coals and so on and so on, until it reaches the lowly bobby on the beat.
We are all micro managed and are compared against each other (division v division, shift v shift or officer against officer). Whilst they are not stupid enough to give us targets of numbers to arrest, give tickets to, etc... They will publish charts to try and make officers who use discreton, look lazy. Words of advice don't show up anywhere, an 'offender' arrested and cautioned or given a ticket does.
The above coupled with the amount of paperwork that we have to complete, makes us ineffective
Steve, Swansea,
What the hell are the police even for? It'll be EU troops on our streets before long - just the ticket for a NULiar politician facing defeat.
Dan, London,
There seems to be a concensus that the police are failing in their duties and that the public should be able to take matters into their own hands.
Where do I enlist?
Ally, Glasgow, Scotland
The police in Nottinghamshire have arrested and locked in a cell a 73-year-old man who dared to remonstrate with a group of youths throwing stones at some ducks -on the lying word of one of the louts who apparently claimed to have been
'assaulted'. The response of a Chief Inspector was that the Constable did what he thought was right !
This sort of thing is not a unique case, or even a rare exception, but a pattern by our increasingly incompetent, politically-correct mad police who have largely lost the respect and trust of the law-abiding public.
Peter Fahey shows just how out of touch senior police officers are : we already have " yobs ruling the streets", and what is even worse, if the yobs don't get you, the police will !
L Green, LOndon, England
How ridiculous.
Both the police and the government seem to switch between positions on citizens involving themselves in the prevention of 'anti-social behaviour' at will.
If the honest citizen does start to stand up for himself, he is accused of taking the law into his own hands. That is also complete rot, since the law belongs to the citizens of this country, not to the police. We simply pay the police to help citizens in the upholding of the law, although this seems to have been long forgotten.
If the police do want our help dealing with potentially violent and murderous youths, they should extend to us the same levels of protection that they have given themselves. It is no good for them to tell us that we should confront these youths all the while retaining a complete monopoly on the use of force in defence of themselves.
The very fact that we have become a disarmed nation in exchange for a police service that is now incapable of doing it's job is outrageous.
TC, London, UK
In America, police forces have 'TO SERVE AND PROTECT' wrote on the side of their patrol cars.
I am sure these words will never find their way onto British patrol cars. There's already evidence of police arresting and charging soft targets in order to make-up their quarter of so called arrests, while the real nasty offenders rampage across our cities. What a bunch of jokers the police have become.
A Police Officer with several years of experience could be earning around £30,000 per year, poor things, its a wonder they even bother getting out of bed in the morning.
People even give the police evidence of CREDIT CARD FRAUD with names, addresses etc but you get "IT'S NOT OUR BRIEF"
CAR VANDLISM IS NOT A PRIORITY and the police just say "contact your Insurance company".
I reported a group of teenagers smashing up residential fencing (CRIMINAL DAMAGE) again NOT A PRIORITY, police never attended. London's Met Police Farce (31,000+) are jokers and prisons are full!
Graham Wharton, St. Albans, UK
What a total abdication of responsibility.
This makes me really angry; if the police got off their lazy backside and did the job they are paid for Mr. Newlove would still be alive.
"Public should challenge the hoodlums" - he did and he was murdered by a gang of criminals who should have been under lock and key. Had he lived he would very likely have been prosecuted by Chief Constable Fahy for 'taking the law into his own hands'.
Our lazy, cowardly police have abandoned the streets to criminals, our justice system is run for the benefit of lawyers and we are left alone without any protection.
Guy T, Edinburgh, UK
What utter tosh! The Police cannot be serious about asking the public to their job for them, can they? What I want to know is, what's the difference between intervening and taking the law into your own hands? A very fine line these days I feel!
Graham , Littlehampton, West Sussex
That's great. Challenge the hoodlums, get in a fight, get arrested, get locked up. Cheers Chief Constable Fahy. Can I use you as a defence witness when I get prosecuted for assault while the baddies get compensation, a holiday, go-kart driving lessons and a theatre workshop?
We might do something if the law was on our side, but it seems to give all the rights to the criminals and systematically strip all the rights away from us, the good guys.
shorehamview, Sheffield,
Well, thank you, Mr Fahy, but we have seen what happens when law-abiding people like Mr Newlove challenge people damaging their property. Do you have any idea why we have a police force?
Martin, Newmarket, Suffolk