Sean O'Neill, Crime Editor
Win VIP tickets

The Prime Minister urged the courts yesterday to make more use of tough sentencing powers available for gun crimes.
Gordon Brown said the “mandatory” minimum jail term of five years for possessing a firearm, introduced four years ago but still not being enacted fully, was part of a range of tools available to clamp down on gun criminals.
Mr Brown was responding to calls from a senior police chief for judges to be consistent in imposing the five-year term set down in law.
Bernard Hogan-Howe, the Chief Constable of Merseyside, told The Times that heavy sentences were an essential part of the strategy to deter criminals from carrying guns. He said: “There is evidence of sentencing where the power has been available and not been used and that is simply wrong. I want very heavy sentences for possession of firearms which would deter people from arming others or carrying guns themselves.”
But the judiciary defended its interpretation of the sentencing powers and the right of judges to use their discretion.
A spokesman for the Judicial Communications Office said there was a proper legal mechanism for the police and others to complain about supposedly lenient sentences.
He added: “If, in any individual case, the police or the Crown Prosecution Service believe that a mandatory minimum term has not been imposed for gun crime for reasons that are not justified, it is open to them to ask the Attorney-General to consider referring the case to the Court of Appeal as unduly lenient.
“This provides a clear mechanism for sentences to be reviewed and checked against the statutory framework, sentencing guidelines and case law. The number of cases referred for failure to impose a mandatory minimum sentence is small.”
But Mr Brown said it was vital that other elements of the criminal justice system backed the police in the fight against guns. “The important thing about gun crime is that we have the policing and support for the police to enable us to root out gun crime,” he said.
“We had set sentencing that is very high — five years for possession of a gun — for \ to use. It is tough sentencing, to take action alongside more policing in hotspots, more metal detection, more undercover policing, more stop-and-search powers and more surveillance.”
However, Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrats’ home affairs spokesman, said there was an “increasing gap” between what the Government said about penalties and the sentences that judges handed down.
Mr Hogan-Howe had the full backing of the Merseyside Police Authority for his stance. Rose Bailey, a member of the authority and councillor for the Croxteth ward where 11-year-old Rhys Jones was shot dead in August, said: “I don’t think the message is being driven home. If anyone is minding or in possession of a firearm, temporarily, on behalf of someone, or whatever . . . If there is a gun in their possession they know is going to be used for criminal activity, then they should also get the minimum mandatory sentence.”
The Times revealed a number of cases in recent months where judges had imposed terms below the five-year minimum. The Home Office admitted that the average sentence for possessing a firearm was less than five years. A spokesman said: “We have set in place tough legislation but it is appropriate that sentencing is ultimately a matter for the courts.”
Win a luxury weekend to Newcastle and its neighbour Gateshead, find out more here
Risk, resilience and embracing new technology
Industry sectors news at a glance. Interactive heatmap, video and podcast
Discover the power of collective thinking. Submit a solution and be in with a chance to win a Media Hub Home Entertainment System
The inside track on current trends in the charity, not for profit and social enterprise sectors
Everything the Business Traveller needs to know to make a better trip
Make the most of the summer and enter our fabulous photographic competition, you could win a £5000 holiday
Corsica is an island of beauty and contrast, an ideal holiday destination
Enjoy further reading from Travel to Fashion, Business to Sport, discover more
Shortcuts to help you find sections and articles
The clever way to lease a new car is with Car leasing made simple™
2009
per month on 36-month
Personal Contract Hire (PCH)
2008
42850
Car Insurance
£24,250 - £30,346
MI5
London
£60,000
The Environment Agency
Bristol
Up to £90K
Boots
Midlands
OTE £85k
Credit Protection Association
Nationwide Opportunities
Completely London
Luxury Condo's in Manhattan with NYC views
The best new homes in Wimbledon?
Nationwide
Fabulous Cruise And Cruise & Stay Offers Including Virgin Atlantic Flights Prices Start From Only £699pp!
Last Minute Cruise And Cruise & Stay Offers. Med From £499pp, Caribbean From £699pp!
5 star quality at a 3 star price.
8 fabulous Canadian cities ...you won’t find cheaper
Contact our advertising team for advertising and sponsorship in Times Online, The Times and The Sunday Times, or place your advertisement.
Times Online Services: Dating | Jobs | Property Search | Used Cars | Holidays | Births, Marriages, Deaths | Subscriptions | E-paper
News International associated websites: Globrix Property Search | Property Finder | Milkround
Copyright 2009 Times Newspapers Ltd.
This service is provided on Times Newspapers' standard Terms and Conditions. Please read our Privacy Policy.To inquire about a licence to reproduce material from Times Online, The Times or The Sunday Times, click here.This website is published by a member of the News International Group. News International Limited, 1 Virginia St, London E98 1XY, is the holding company for the News International group and is registered in England No 81701. VAT number GB 243 8054 69.
There are two sorts of people who keep firearms illegally: criminals who mean business; and people who own them with no intent to harm others but who fall foul of the paperwork. A blanket sentence will put a lot of harmless subjects behind bars without addressing the real issue.
Roddy Campbell, Christchurch, New Zealand
"It is obvious that cities and countries that opposes gun bans are the ones that have the lowest crime rate."
I'm loving the pro-gun lobby from the US claiming that freedom to carry guns makes the murder rate lower.
Number of gun deaths per 100,000 citizens:
US: 3.98
UK 0.15
You have to laugh, really...
James, Cambridge, UK
Notice that the law stipulates a minimum mandatory five year sentence for simple POSSESSION of a firearm as part of a range of tools to clamp down on "gun crimes" - such as possessing one. So in Brittain it's still about controlling guns, read that: disarming law abiding citizens, NOT about stopping violent crime and criminals.
Jack Armstrong, Tully, USA, S. Carolina
This is to Jay Pennsylvania has almost no restrictions. We can carry anywhere except a courthouse and Federal land. Including Philly
and we are a shall issue state
Tim
tim, austin, pa
It is obvious that cities and countries that opposes gun bans are the ones that have the lowest crime rate. Gun control activists refuse to accept that fact because they contradicts their opinions. California, DC, New York, New Jersey, Pensilvania and Maine, those states have the strictest gun bans and yet they have the highest crime rate in the U.S. This is more than just irony
Jay, Tampa, FL
If the UK is such a safe, gun-free society, why do the police at Heathrow carry H&K MP-5 Submachine guns in quick-access body armor chest packs ? Despite the rantings by people of the like of Rebecca Peters, the US is not a cowboy society. It has been proven, time and time again that areas where firearms can be owned and self-defense is protected, violent crime goes way down. The anti-gun forces in both the US and UK's major tools are a big rug and a broom to sweep the facts under. Think of the following, if we had told the Russians that we were a "Nuclear Weapons Free Zone", what dialect of Russian would we be speaking today ? or German, or Japanese ? - It's happening in Europe today. bowing over to the insane demands of Muslim Extremists is leading to a very nasty conclusion. Finally, the lack of legitimate firearm ownership, plus a very small portion of the UK police being weapons trained (and carrying) will lead to a huge 9-11 attack way beyond NY and Washington.
Vic F., St. Charles, Illinois, USA
Baloney to you people who want to ban guns. Why do Japnese-Americans-who can legally own guns-have a LOWER crime rate than Japanese living in Japan? I carried a gun "illegally" here in Tampa, Fla. for years when i was deleivering newspapers. The police knew it but none ever bothered me because I am a law-abiding citizen. You need to stop looking at the wrong end of the telescope
Leonard, Tampa, Fla., USA
Political Correctness is to blame for too leniant judges and the high crime rates in the UK. People are afraid to point fingers and lay blame where it belongs and judges with any political aspirations are afraid to convict and imprison for fear of politcal fall-out. Take the politics out of law and order and you will be surprised how quickly people will behave themselves.
Douglas Cochrane, Halifax,
Brown singlehandedly refused to pay for more prison building when chancellor and now as Prime Minister(unelect) is telling Judges to lock armed criminals up longer whilst his ministers are telling Judges to go easy on convicted felons because there are no cells available. Castigating Judges for this farce is a cynical political ploy by Nu labour to shift the blame from where it really belongs.
philip, ipswich,
the trouble is people are getting away with violent crime because the prisons are full of non violent criminals who should be doing community service this week a 64 yr old cancer sufferer war banged up for a year for benefit fraud, our courts have their priorities all wrong
tom, kent, uk
"In a truly free society, owning a gun is not a crime............... then law enforcement and government agencies should likewise be banned from possessing firearms."
Scott,
In a truly civil society, owning a gun in not an option. it is not a right because civil society recognises that guns add to violence & do not remove it. this is not just my opinion but is bore out by a multitude of statistics across the world.
In the UK as in Ireland the "beat cop" does not carry a gun. whilst that is always a danger to the police officer, it is always preferable to a situation where society must advocate the choice to the officer.
No where is gun crime so prolific than in societies where guns are historically or currently available. there is no sane person who will accept that ultimately holding guns will reduce gun crime.
The US has its laws, but remember that the civilised world is beyond your borders and will always remain so.
David, Moscow, Russia
In a truly free society, owning a gun is not a crime. Rather, people retain their natural law rights to arm and defend themselves. How does mere possession of a firearm warrant a five-year mandatory prison sentence? Should it not be what you do with a firearm that matters, not simply whether you have one? If there was a true moral justification for criminalizing mere possession of firearms, then law enforcement and government agencies should likewise be banned from possessing firearms. Obviously, this makes no sense. Perhaps one day you will reclaim your rights.
Scott, Houston, Texas, USA
The USA is not the greatest democracy in history. Greece was. Besides, what does being the greatest democracy on Earth have to do with being pragmatic about gun control. The fact is, without guns, people don't kill other people with guns. I'm sick of such pro-2nd Amendment nonsense! That amendment was made in a time when Native Americans and White Americans were at violent odds. It's a misguided amendment that needs cleaning up--and until that happens, not only is the USA going to be a disgraceful display of gun violence, but other countries that follow our lead may fall into the same inane trap.
Shannon, Richmond, VA, USA
Shannon Warnick, Richmond, USA, Virginia
Your draconian gun control measures will always have an unjust effect on human rights until such time you subject your subjects to compulsory and daily checks for weapons.
And is that the kind of society you want? Perhaps you could all wear matching leotards and be assigned numbers and bar codes to complete the picture.
Ken James, Seattle, Washington, United States
Mr Gordon Brown should remember that America has become the greatest democracy on earth and in history because of the God inspired second amendment to the Constitution. If he wants to keep Great Britain a democracy he should change course.
Ronnie, Paris, France
Ha ha ha ha I Iove this country, nu labour(ious) have screwed thinghs up so bad that the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing. All this bravado talk about 5 years for carrying a gun and then its a case of, oh, all the jails are full.
How about the government pay the indiginous people of this country a lot of money to leave, then they can play all day with the dregs left behind.
Mike Jones, Farnborough, Hampshire
Who do they think they are! I am fed up with the Judges! If they will not obey our elected representatives then we should appoint a committee of citizens to oversee them.
If they abuse democray then they should be answerable to the people.
Andy, London,