Tom Gordon
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BRITISH taxpayers are to meet the £2 billion cost of reintroducing free university education in Scotland but students from England and Wales will still have to pay the full fees.
Under plans to be announced by the Scottish executive on Wednesday, Scottish students who now pay £2,000 on graduation will be charged nothing from 2009. From 2011 at the latest they will also see loans wiped out and maintenance grants reintroduced.
The move by the minority SNP administration is likely to reignite the debate about the Union and fuel anger at the emergence of a two-tier system whereby a more generous level of public services in Scotland is largely funded by English taxpayers.
In the decade since devolution, Scotland has made use of its grant from Westminster to subsidise care homes for the elderly and to authorise the use of a wide range of cancer drugs denied to patients south of the border. It receives approximately £1,500 more per head than England.
But the latest plan is the most divisive yet. All tuition fees in Scotland will be scrapped from 2009 for Scottish students.
Students from the European Union will also receive free education from 2009 unless they come from England, Wales or Northern Ireland. At present there are about 15,000 English undergraduates at Scottish universities paying £1,700 a year for a four-year degree. On top of an average loan of £11,000, it means they leave with an average debt of £17,800.
Students in England are charged top-up fees of up to £3,000 per year, and universities are expected to be allowed to raise their charges from 2010. There are plans to make the Scottish system even more generous by 2011, with the replacement of student loans by means-tested grants for all Scottish students. In addition, up to £2 billion of existing student debt will be written off, paid for out of Scotland’s block grant.
The move provides an ironic twist to the introduction of tuition fees as Tony Blair had to rely on the votes of Scottish MPs to push through the introduction of £3,000-a-year fees at English universities. Scottish students attending English universities would still be charged fees.
David Willetts, Tory education spokesman, believes the latest Scottish decision has created a problem for Gordon Brown. “Brown is trapped. He can hardly extol the virtues of university fees in England when his own constituents in Scotland will not be paying them,” he said.
The SNP plans are expected to pass through the Scottish parliament with the support of the Greens and Liberal Democrats.
Last year the SNP pledged that any move to scrap tuition fees would also cover English students studying there. However, Fiona Hyslop, the new Scottish education secretary, is expected to announce she has abandoned that commitment because of fears it would create a rush of English students north of the border.
Jack Rabinowicz, a partner in the London-based law firm Teacher Stern Selby, said the SNP plan could prompt a legal challenge from aggrieved students elsewhere in Britain. “It further highlights the imbalance between the system in disparate parts of the UK. It’s a discriminatory regime,” he said.
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lucy I agree
give scotland every pound it raises to look after our own and england can do what is best for their own
stephen, dunoon, argyll
The Scottish parliament is boldly facing up to the problem of student debts and the issue of expensive education. In the future perhaps the rest of the UK, so angered by this proposal, will consider a similar move. That students from the rest of the UK would still be charged for attending university in Scotland is discriminatory because the move is obviously advantageous to students - we would all love to see this take place. Scotland is attempting to take a first step in providing free education. The rest of the UK needs to follow up the change in order to make it a UK policy. If such a change cannot be afforded then it will fail, but it is an admirable and positive proposal.
Julia, Glasgow,
Yet more discriminatory divide-and-conquer by the despicable SNP. And so many comments here from SNP activists known to me from the Scotsman and Glasgow Herald forums. This policy, and the reaction on message boards from the full-time SNP drones, are a deliberate attempt to goad the English, in particular, and whip up further resentment of Scotland.
Please understand that most people in Scotland value and want to retain the Union. Only about one in six of the electorate was sufficiently motivated by a desire to end the Union to go out and vote for the SNP. Many of the rest of us are profoundly embarrassed by the transparently manipulative tactics of our new so-called representatives.
AM, Glasgow, UK
This has got to be a joke. Active discrimination such as this in denying the same education opportunites to students from the rest of the UK is unacceptable, especially when it's taxes from the whole of the UK funding it.
It's a shame that this whole topic has been so under-reported, someone's obviously doing a good job keeping it out of the headlines. Any guesses who? A Scot about to become Prime Minister, perhaps?
Give Scotland the independence it desires, and both sides will be happy.
Lucy, Chichester, West Sussex
British taxpayers (of whom 5 million or so live in Scotland) are to meet the £2 billion cost of reintroducing free university education in Scotland. Scottish & European Union students will be charged nothing from 2009 but students who come from England, Wales or Northern Ireland will have to pay. This is a blatantly racist policy. I expect that once graduated, the Scottish University students will be coming south of the border to work. Scotland has made good use of its grant from Westminster to subsidise welfare provisions, but it shouldnt receive approximately £1500 more per head than people living in England to pay for it. The Scots abolishment of tuition fees cannot be interferred with by the British Parliament, whereas South of the border Tony Blair had to rely on the votes of Scottish MPs to push through the £3000-a-year fees at English universities. How can Gordon Brown extol the virtues of university fees in England when his own constituents in Scotland will not be paying them
Lynda Plum, London, england
Liouse , Edinburgh - "..99% of your friends.." - so do you have a hundred friends or do you have part of a friend in favour. I'm a Scottish undergraduate and all my friends are delighted about this - democracy by the people for the people , a bit of a novelty in this wonderful union we all love so much.
Eric, Renfrewshire, Scotland
British taxpayers (of whom 5 million or so live in Scotland) are to meet the £2 billion cost of reintroducing free university education in Scotland. Scottish & European Union students will be charged nothing from 2009 but students who come from England, Wales or Northern Ireland will have to pay. This is a blatantly racist policy. I expect that once graduated, the Scottish University students will be coming south of the border to work. Scotland has made good use of its grant from Westminster to subsidise welfare provisions, but it shouldnt receive approximately £1500 more per head than people living in England to pay for it. The Scots abolishment of tuition fees cannot be interferred with by the British Parliament, whereas South of the border Tony Blair had to rely on the votes of Scottish MPs to push through the £3000-a-year fees at English universities. How can Gordon Brown extol the virtues of university fees in England when his own constituents in Scotland will not be paying them
Lynda Plum, London, england
As a Scottish parent THIS SOUNDS GOOD TO ME
Despite running a minority Government, the SNP are steadily fulfilling their election promises, one by one.
Imagine that, politicians who keep their promises!
Parents in England have my sympathy. When will England have politicians who will help the less well off to go to university again?? And don't tell me that tuition fees haven't had the opposite effect.
We can debate all day whether Scotland subsidises England, or the other way round. The fact that Whitehall chooses not to publish full figures tells its own story.
Derick, Stirlingshire, Scotland
Did any of you Southrons read the McCrone Report, especially Louise and her embaressed chums in Edinburgh.
Read, then comment!
Somebody owes Scotland a lot of cash! A lot.
Ruadh , The Capital, Upper Canada
What a misleading article.
If the Scots Parliament legislates to introduce free university education then:
1) They wont get more money sent up 'from England' to pay for it. It will be paid for from the existing money allocated to be spent by the SP.
2) The EU is responsible for the dumb rule that EU nationals are entitled to free education if it's provided.
3) The dumb EU ruling doesn't cover how a member state (in this case, the UK) treats its own inhabitants - hence allowing that English students aren't covered.
4) The SNP education minister makes a totally valid point that if education in Scots universities were made free to English students there would be a stampede, and Scotland would effectively massively fund the free education of people who hadn't contributed to the funds being spent. Bear in mind that at least in theory, Scots are regarded as having paid taxes in order to fund government expenditure.
Angus McIonnach, Edinburgh,
Just for a change the majority of the comments are from Scots......anti English Scots. Isnt it time that you got off your high horse and stop thinking you are hard done by.
Simon, Las Palmas de GC, Spain
If this ever gets voted through it coud be the most devisive piece of legislation for English/Scottish relations. What I find incredulous is that under the proposal European students (excluding England, Wales & N.I.) will also pay no fees, this must be a wind up!. Lets charge all the europeans and make it free for the British in all British Unis.
Geoff, Rayleigh, Essex, E
For some reason my previous post has been ignored - but let me repeat: the SNP love it when you English support their ridiculous independence games. Listen: the £2 billion they will need to find to abolish all college fees will have to come from cuts in other essential services. AND, Scottish universities are already short of cash for teaching and research because we don't have top-up fees. Standards are slipping, teaching is suffering. Soon Scottish universities will lose out in quality to English ones. There is no free lunch, believe me.
The SNP are promising to spend money left right and centre and nobody knows how they'll pay for all this out of the fixed grant we get from the exchequer. Don't play their game!
Robert, Glasgow,
The EU Treatise of nice states that iscrimination due to nationality now constitutes racism.
As Scottish people are not charged tuition fees and English one are, this clearly constitutes racism.
Henry Adams, Manchester,
Great headline to upset English readers.We scots also pay tax and I might point out that this has yet to be put forward in parliamentary debate,something the Westminster government has forgotten how to do.
I am upset with your newspapers anti Scottish stance,if you feed half truths to your readers as a 'respected' newspaper some poor benighted souls might just believe you.For example your portrayal of the First Minister of Scotland as some sort of bruiser picking fights.I note that not a mention of Col.Gadaffi telling the WORLD that all was signed and sealed over the release of the Lockerbie bomber has appeared to counteract Westminster claims and their feeble excuse that no one answered the phone , drivel about a public holiday, has NOT been thoroughly covered by your 'quality'newspaper!!!
Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow, Scotland
Great news for the English as this will hasten the demand for equal representation as well as the West Lothian question.
Just another example of Blairs legacy - along with higher payments to Europe, not to mention his latest skulduggery in EU.
I welcome the news - I am sure we will see more of this from the SNP in the build up to the independance vote!
Peter H, Auckland,
Oh dear the engliush electorate is having great difficulty in understanding the reality of devolution. If they want free university education in England then vote for a party that will deliver it. More power t to he SNP for developing a policy which suits Scotland's needs.
Bob Osborne, Belfast,
Splendid news I do so enjoy lighting my cigars with English twenty pound notes. Please keep sending them to us poor North Britain's.
Oscar MacApfel, Gravytrainopolis, Bonny Scotland
As a Scot myself, I would agree that the SNP's proposals seem deeply unfair. 99% of my friends are horrified at the thought of independence and embarrassed by Holyrood, particularly since Alex Salmond and his loutish croonies took control.
Louise, Edinburgh,
Scots pay tax as well. To head your article as English Tax payers is blatantly racist. Scots tax payers are obliged to meet a share of Trident and the Iraq War which they are overwhelmingly opposed to. The sooner Scotland and England go their separate ways the better as they are now diverging too much from each other in their aspirations. Now that we have a Government at Holyrood that is delivering what we want and need, we realise how badly served we have been in the past.
Huntly Loon, Huntly, Aberdeenshire
Every time I read an English newspaper they are moaning about english taxes funding scotland in every possible way, who says england is funding scotland in any way? It just happens to be the same people that told us Iraq had WMD. Some more reputable organisations like The Economist newspaper for example correctly show that when oil is taken into account, scotland can afford, quite easily, its public services. So all I can say to the english is, if you want free higher education, free old age care then do it, and if you dont mind we will do what we want.
Thomas, Kilmarnock, Scotland
This is really terrible if true and not an attempt to twist facts so the Scottish parliment looks bad.
I I think the whole situation is unworkable, we in Scotland need to be independent completely and so do the English, we are both at the mercy of corrupt politicians on both side.
Maisie, Edinburgh, Scotland
How can the english government justify the current education system?? Are we not a nation that believe in equal opportunity? There is nothing just and fair about this system, english students are certaintly not treated as equals. And to add insult to injury, it is english taxpayer's money that is funding this farce. Something has to change!
danielle, liverpool, merseyside
Quite agree bring on an independent Scotland.
Let's agree that all revenues raised in Scotland go to the Scottish Treasury and that's the end of the matter.
Miss H, Glasgow, Scotland
i simply cannot believe what I am reading!
THIS IS A UNITED KINGDOM?
j.b.windmill, brierley hill, ENGLAND
Give the Scots full independance and set up border controls
syd , Leeds,
The people in England have to be the biggest mugs in the world. We work our butts off and end up being ruled by Scots. Worse still we end up subsiding them and then discover evrey Student from the EU can study free there, but English students can't.
I would say bring on the revolution, but I fear us English are too polite for that. We'll just grumble a bit and then continue to allow all and sundry to take advantage of us.
Stephanie James, London, England
Give the Sots full independance set up border controls and we can have a British and not Scottish parliament here in england the sooner the better
syd , Leeds, uk
THis is outrageous. The Scots can have autonomy butt hey should pay for it an d other social policie sthemselves, bring on independant Scotland.
University education policy was better when we had the grant system, and it was open to all regardless of means and dependant on ability. Present policies have degraded the value of degrees and discriminate against the working class.
Thi sgovernment has destroyed the education system that gave them the tools to reach their position today. Grammar schools and top quality universitie sfor the top 15%
Anne, Whitby, nyorks
I think this is absolutley awful. I would love to attend a University but estimate it would cost around £25,000. I can't understand why UK taxpayers should have to essentially "give" money to Scotland so that it's students can have a free higher education.
The worst thing is that Scottish students and European students will receive this free education but English, Welsh or Irish students who want to attend a Scottish University still have to pay. Discrimination anyone?
Tony Blair has done nothing for this country and continues to leave behind a legacy that discriminates towards British people. The man needs to grow a back bone maybe now that he is leaving parliment he might do so - although it's too late to be of any use to the british people.
Kerry , Oxford, UK
As an Englishman with a few Scottish and Welsh friends i know for a fact that the Scots and Welsh are laughing at the English.
I've been told by these friends that the English are dull for putting up with the discrimination of the Barnett Formula. The English meekly accept a British Government spending the least amount per head on them in comparison to the Scots and Welsh.
If everything was reversed and we had free prescriptions in England and not in Wales, free university education in England and not in Scotland or Wales, free care for the elderly in England and not in Scotland, free access in England to cancer drugs denied to those in Scotland and Wales - THERE WOULD BE RIOTS IN EDINBURGH AND CARDIFF.
So yes- i agree with them - the English ARE DULL !
Tom Long, The Cotswolds, ENGLAND
This is racism, pure and simple. Everyone would hold their hands up in horror if the Scottish Executive said that their free education applied to whites only so how can they get away with saying free to all EU members except for the English and Welsh?
liz, huntingdon,
It will never work out. The implications are too serious. Even if it does work out, something will happen to break it down. Owing to the current developments in the laws of the European Community, E.U. nationals will be able to access the Scottish universities as if they are the nationals of Scotland, but those within the U.K., except for the Scots themselves, will not be able to enjoy such benefits guaranteed by the EC Law. So, as this news article said, students from England and Wales (and Northern Ireland) will have to pay the full fees. But the ultimate consequence is that the U.K. will be subsidising the Scots, as well as the rest of the E.U. This SNP policy is really badly thought out.
Kong Kek Kuat, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
BRITISH taxpayers (of whom 5 million or so live in Scotland) are to meet the £2 billion cost of reintroducing free university education in Scotland. Scottish & European Union students will be charged nothing from 2009 but students who come from England, Wales or Northern Ireland will have to pay. This is a blatantly racist policy. I expect that once graduated, the Scottish University students will be coming south of the border to work. Scotland has made good use of its grant from Westminster to subsidise welfare provisions, but it shouldnt receive approximately £1500 more per head than people living in England to pay for it. The Scots abolishment of tuition fees cannot be interferred with by the British Parliament, whereas South of the border Tony Blair had to rely on the votes of Scottish MPs to push through the £3000-a-year fees at English universities. How can Gordon Brown extol the virtues of university fees in England when his own constituents in Scotland will not be paying them
Lynda Plum, London, england
It seems a transparent attempt by the SNP to build the illusion of a more prosperous Scotland on English and Welsh money whilst inciting resentment between the UK and Scotland. If it wasn't so cynical you could suggest that it is part of a plan so that when the SNP try for independence the rest of Britain is glad to see the back of them.
Tom, Reading,
The sooner England and Scotland are separate countries the better, they can then fund themselves leaving a greater percentage for England.
darren s, york,
What do you expect from an English government run by Scots?
Jo, Waltham Abbey, England
Once again shocking reporting from the times and anti-scottish propaganda.
Scotland's oil has funded England for 30 years to the tune of millions of pounds, scotlands power stations keep the lights on in england and scotlands water keep the taps running. So funded my arse, as we would say on this side of the border
Despite this successive westminster governements have run rough shod over us. Finally we have a scottish administration who stand for scotland and well what can I say, in the words of gandhi, "first they ignore us, then they laugh at us, then they fight us, then we win." The end is nigh for the treaty of union!
Scottish vet, Glasgow, Scotland
Another huge reason for the creation of an English parliament,otherwise the daily attacks on English life such as this will surely continue.Nobody is listening to the English,certainly not the spineless MP'S within English constituencies,and with Gordon "no mandate Brown" set to rule England very soon,the future for England looks bleak whilst Scotland will continue to flourish.
will hanlon, huddersfield, England
So much for 'Britishness' . How long are we English going to put up with this? There should be openness and transparency about the Barnett formula and let those English MP's who support it say so openly and give their reasons. How many would be voted in I wonder?
Lily, Cornwall,
The English education system as we all well know, is far superior to that of the Scottish system. One needs only look at the access levels of English students versus Scottish students at Edinburgh University and St Andrews University to see an unfair bias.
Currently, a policy of positive discrimination exists at Edinburgh University to allow Scottish students entry after it was found that less than 1% of students at EU were Scottish.
We all know that education in the UK is not based on merit.
GD, Shanghai, China
Devolution !! Well done Blair/Brown; you have master-minded the eventual disintegration of the United Kingdom. This is part of the legacy for which you will long be loathed.
Rick, London, England
Very concerned that we are developing such disparity netween the English and Scottish education systems. English students are being seriously discriminated against. Education should be available to all equally.
Anne Gordon, Ipswich, Suffolk
This is another illustration why all the people who live in England should be demanding their own English Parliament, First Minister and Executive (i.e. a mirror image of what New Labour has given to Scotland under devolution).
This English Parliament would be expected to stand up for its citizens. It would scrap the Barnett formula which allocates English taxpayers' revenues at the expense of England to favour the other three home nations. It would ensure that England's tax revenues were spent much more for the benefit of those who live in England.
As long as the definition of the English people is a civic one (as is the English Democrats'), no one should object to moderate and principled English nationalism.
The Scottish politicians (either fully Scottish like Gordon Brown, John Reid, Ming Campbell or just very pro-Scottish like David Donald Cameron) might not like to see justice for the English people, but we English do!
Andrew Constantine, Twickenham, England
This is dreadful. How can we value one set of students but not another? Charge the Scots, it is only fair. No wonder the English are for devolution.
Judy , Liverpool, england
What another load of Anti-Scottish dribble from the Times. Can you thick southerners not understand that we pay tax in Scotland and that we can choose to use the amount we get back from London ( not as you put it an extra £1500 per head which does not include all the money spent on English infrastructure etc ).
Read the daily reports we see on Britain and you will see that deprivation is rife in Scotland despite our oil making us one of the richest countries in the world, unfortunately most of OUR oil money is spent in England but not recorded in the English per capita spending.
Get a grip and do some realistic journalism rather than this jingoistic crap.
malcolm gooding, kilwinning, Scotland
Long live the West Lothian Question & the generosity of the English taxpayer !
matt-glasgow, Glasgow,
surely this amounts to racial discrimination?? i think that the commission for equal oppurtunities ought to investigate. i will not be holding my breath!!
neil, london,
I've love to go to university, but it will take me a while to save up the estimated 70k to afford to do so..
Wannabe poor student, London, UK
As a Scot I'd just like to say "sorry" to any student, or their family, who reside somewhere in the non-Scotland part of the UK. I had previously thought that the Scottish Executive would eventually resolve this anomaly using the tax-raising powers granted to the devolved parliament and simultaneously thought that those outside of Scotland had been ignoring this possibility and were just myopic. While 'marginally excusable' under a Labour administration - given the complexities of settling a devolved set-up - I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a while, but to have this from the Westminster-rejecting SNP portrays Scots in an unfavourable and hypocritical light. It may be obvious that a 'free for all' in Scotland alone would attract a higher than usual proportion of non-Scotland resident applications, however if the SNP are opting for, and therefore giving value to, a form of protectionism then it is us Scots who should, ethically and justifiably, be paying for it.
David Scott, St Albans (for now), UK
I live in Scotland and pay tax to the UK exchequer. I am not English. How do you differentiate tax into 'English' tax, as the Treasury itself cannot produce this information?
PS I am not taking sides one way or the other on the issue, I would just lke to know how you come by your information that the policy will be funded by the 'English' taxpayer?
Margaret, Edinburgh, Lothian