Mrs Jones is mistaking so called 'academic rigour', which is useful only for academic studies, with practicality, which subjects such as Media Studies, Photography etc. provide, making them more suitable for employment. This trend will continue as students realise that studying for something of practical value is preferable to studying some theoretical subject, which by itself is not necessarily of value, except for the most brilliant individuals.

Jim Edwards

Jim Edwards, Shepperton, UK

It is not just soft subjects at A level, but at degree level as well. If you look at the percentage of 1st and 2i degrees awarded at top universities there is a real difference between subjects. e.g. Just 71% of students studying mathematics at Cambridge got a 1st or 2i from an average of 580 UCAS points. Where as 83% of students studying Philosophy Theology and relgious studies got 1st or 2i from an average of 480 UCAS points and 86% of English students from 520 UCAS points.

At Warwick the contrast is greater, Mathematics 68% 1st and 2i from 540 UCAS point average. Philosophy 90% 1st and 2i from UCAS average 470 points. English 90% 1st and 2i from 450 UCAS point average.

If you need a minimum of a 2i to join the big graduate recruitment companies, don't study a hard subject like mathematics as you are far less likely to secure these all important degree classes.

all stats from unistats.com

David, Somerton, UK

Im currently doing my A levels, i am studying Maths, F. Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Economincs which are definately not soft subjects.
Doing 5 a-levels is alot of work while I know of people who are doing two a levels and recieve EMA givng them 10 hours in school studing media and drama getting paid £30 a week, the "soft" subjects they have choosen still means they get the money yet i hardly see what it does to help improve there chances of getting a job as the reason for this money is to improve there long term prospects.
Which these subject do provide a range of skill I hardly see why they are given the same recognision as harder subjects, because even the people taking them notice they are not the same level of work to achieve the top grades

Georgie, paignton,

As long as the Government is pushing for 50% of all pupils to go on to university, you are going to get pupils taking soft options. Only 30 years ago less than 10% were considered academically able enough to go to university. Pupils have not suddenly got brighter en masse. To pretend Media Studies, Photography and Psychology is the equivalent of Maths, Physics and Chemistry is ludicrous. Apart from this, what jobs are many of the soft degree courses going to lead to?

Mrs J Jones, Swansea, Wales

I wish people still did latin...now that was a subject unlike all these pansy soft options.

And caning, that taught boys to be men...disciplined men!

Howard A Catswell, Cambridge, UK

at my school we call them doss subjects. you take one of them alongside your other 3 more challenging subjects do very little work for them, muck about in lessons and still achieve an A or B grade, It would be a shame if someone with 3 As in leisure media and business were allowed to apply to oxford and someone with Bs in maths english and french were deemed not good enough..

Tom Pierce, Staines, Bucks

I'm afraid to say that I am glad, I was more than disappointed when I didn't achieve all A grades in english, maths, germany and history whereas other doing more coursework based subjects did. Although, I did recieve all of my university offers within the fortnight from 5 russel group unis whereas those with A grades in photgraphy still have places pending. I'm shocked at drama though, it is a classical subject in my opinion and requires the same skills and english lit.

Sarah Percey, chesham, Bucks

I think it is an absolute disgrace that top University's are doing this. I myself had a traditional academic education, took my degree at Oxford University, and have a lot of respect for these institutions. The education system in this country has, however, been overly narrow in its scope and turns out far too many graduates without experience in any practical subjects. When I worked in a senior position with a number of major international investment banks, we increasingly recruited overseas graduates in preference to British graduates because they had these qualifications.

The Universities need to make it clear that they expect examining boards to maintain similar high standards for non-traditional subjects as traditional ones. It is completely ridiculous the LSE should be insisting candidates take subjects such English Literature but not a Business Studies A Level to apply there.

Peter, Tonbridge,

In my opinion, EVERYONE should have to study ECONOMICS to A-level. Taught to an appropriate standard, it can be a very rigorous subject. If, as a population, many more of us were 'literate' in Economics we'd know that there is never something for nothing - or, as they say, "There is no such thing as a free lunch." Many more of us voters would then be more commercially aware, we'd appreciate the consequences of certain political decisions and see some of those decisions for what they truly are. That way our governments of whatever hue would be more accountable for decisions that effect the economy - and they'd know it. It'd be more difficult for poiticians to 'put one over us' for short-term political gain. We would then ultimately have a stronger economy for the benefit of all.

Frustrated voter, Harrogate, N. Yorks.

The whole point of universities is to foster excellence and offer serious subjects for study. Dance, media studies and business studies are fine but not as an entry qualification to real universities. It's good to hear that someone at least is more interested in maintaining standards than pursuing the class war.

Colin , Shrewsbury,

Mr Punshon asks for the list. There is one at http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/requirements/

Charles, Sandhurst,

I agree with Ellie - Cambridge.
If parents and students are daft enough to think that A-levels in home-economics and navel-gazing are going to get them into top universities they deserve what they get.
University should be there for the best young academic talent. If entry standards fall it undermines the value of degrees for all.

Oxford Don, Oxford, UK

John Punshon, it is not very difficult to go to the sites listed and find the lists for yourself. I went first to LSE's and then Cambidge's sites, followed links for their undergraduate admissions details and from there was easily able to access both lists. It's unnecessary though - isn't it common sense, if you want to go to Cambridge (or anywhere other than the University of the North Circular), not to take A-levels in subjects like "Leisure Studies"? Not one of the subjects on those lists is surprising, all that is surprising is that the government continues to think these are worthwhile.
Working through a course at a good university is difficult. It stands to reason that students who take the toughest subjects at A-level will be better prepared to perform well at university. Personally, I wish for a return to the technical college system.. it's a mistake to tell everyone that they can reach university.

CJ, Oxford,

Mr Finbow, you are oh so right!

Allan Friswell, Skipton,

I think John from Milton Keynes means "which" and "elucidate". A good argument for English A level, perhaps?

Guy Fraser-Sampson, London,

I'm surprised that the London School of Economics is naming Law A-level as a soft option. I went to the LSE in the late 80s and had Law as one of my own A-levels. At the time, it was quite demanding and dealt with issues of jurisprudence and public policy as well as case law. We did a specialist topic on tort, which I think would have been good enough to see you through a first-year undergraduate course. It may be, of course, that the A-level is now substantially different, but it's a relatively hard subject to dumb down.

Phil Woodford, London , UK

Are there really parents out there who think that their children taking subjects like Leisure Studies and Media Studies have a chance of getting into Cambridge?!

Tom, Reading,

To John Punshon, as a rough guide avoid anything with the words 'studies' or 'technology' in course title. Also Law, Accountancy, Cookery, and 'Going on Holiday'. An A'Level in your first language is also not worth doing. Appart from that try doing your own investigation. It's all there - just try googling.

Henry, Dulwich,

A couple of points. Why is no one challenging grade inflation WITHIN universities. 25 years ago a minority of students achieved upper second and first class degrees, now they are a majority (including within Russel group universities). This apparently was achieved during a rise in 'soft' A levels. Secondly, do academics setting these 'A' level policies actually know what they are taliking about? It seems very convenient that the so called 'soft' subjects typically fall outside of the disciplines taught within the universities excluding them. Surely the two golden rules of academia are: don't profess on a subject until you actually understand it and don't presume to understand it until you have the research evidence to back it up. The universities featured in this story are at the cutting edge in research terms, so should be able to publish the evidence that students with soft 'A' levels perform less well at degree level than those with their ' harder ' counterparts.

Graham, Oxford, UK

If they don't have the willingness and forsight to take challenging A level subjects, how can they hope to succeed at university? Our children are being sold short by the 'All must have prizes' mentality of government that encourages academic dumbing down. It's no training for the real world.

A short point: University used to be a place for academic and scientific grounding and achievement. If the government wants 50% plus of children to go to university then by definition, degress must be attainable by average people. Some level of challenge and attainment for the genuinely able who are let down. The dumbing down continues.

I see all too many CV's from people who have no idea that their prized 'Media Studies' and 'Cultural History' courses condemns their CV to the recycling bin when they send it to an international bank. Presumably they have just woken up to the fact that not everybody can work in 'media' Many of my co-workers are from abroad and are bi or multi-lingual

Mutley, London,

Assuming of course that it is the "hard" academic subjects that the future economy needs.

The point about technical education is not well made, as vocational/technical education is not - regardless of how well delivered - perceived as anything other than for the also rans. It can be different, look at Germany, not without its problems but with an integrated approach between the economy and vocational teaching.

The fact is Oxbridge is was and always will be about elitism, its not really a point worth disputing. The RG just extends that to more members of the middle classes. It is something that perpetuates the class system, membership confers life-long benefits beyond a simple education, and its reasonably permeable to some academically gifted but life chance restricted - that is a feature of its longevity.

If certain skills need to be taught then why hide them in a morass of inconsequence wrapped up in tenure?

John, Bristol, UK

As many of us have been saying, Nu Labour, have been at 'figure fiddling ' for ten years now. But they get ministers to just deny reality to the public.

David Vinter, Louth, Lincs., UK..

I recall one year when the newspapers were full of an A'Level student with Spanish as one of her 3 subjects, who failed get into Medical School. Who the hell advised her that Spanish would get her into Medical School?!

Poppy, Reading, UK

For sake of completeness, here's the LSE's list:

Accounting
Art and Design
Business Studies
Communication Studies
Dance/Theatre Studies*
Design and Technology
Drama/Theatre Studies
Home Economics
Information and Communication Technology
Law
Media Studies
Music Technology
Sports Studies
Travel and Tourism

(from: http://www.lse.ac.uk/resources/undergraduateProspectus2008/howToApply.htm#generated-subheading5)

It is also worth noticing that this practice is not new, contrary to what the article seems to suggest, cf.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/undergraduateAdmissions/AdmissionsCriteria/general_information.htm,

see the Section on Drama and Theatre Studies, where it is stated that "following the School's *annual review of this list*, some departments are willing to consider this subject as generally preferred for 2008 entry and onwards."

C Hardin, Exeter, Devon, UK

Funny how so-called 'soft' subjects often revolve around creativity, the visual. Wittgenstein, a Cambridge man, said that philosophy was easy compared to architecture. And sociology is harder than law. Lawyers would be better people if they understood a bit of sociology.

Alex, nigel,

There must be something I have missed. Accountancy soft? design and technology soft?

For those of us who have been educated in the UK and abroad, it is apparent that there are toomany subjects examined as "coursework" ie no examination as it is properly known. Most of this coursework is not the students handwork as various site would attest to.

To compound the situation there are "open book" exams.

Need I proceed?

Ifeanyichkwu, Rainham,Essex, UK

Imagine you struggling with economics or physics, on the other hand softies lording it with sociology,child studies boasting that they are in the same league and same qualification and always turning their noses at you in the social sphere because they got plenty of time to waste.

what else is the university studies leading into,that is why there less and less scientists and thinkers in this country and more and more cloth design,gender studies and social subjects that are only good for nothing,a waste of taxpayers money and time.

Well done to LSE and Cambridge for its decisions to blacklist these subjects which only attracts the lazy and worthless students,its high time Britain stopped importing Doctors and other important proffessionals as far as a field as Africa,good initial steps by these universities to take action later rather than never at all.

Mboya,Bath.

Mboya, Bath, UK

There's no point critisising 'soft A Levels' anymore. Have any of the politicans and Universities realised that it's not that students want to take soft subjects. They just find all the 'hard subjects' boring and see no worth in them at all.

Sarah , Belfast,

From http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/requirements/#course

Accounting
Art and Design (see also Architecture)
Business Studies (see also Economics)
Communication Studies
Dance
Design and Technology (see also Engineering)
Drama/Theatre Studies
Film Studies
Health and Social Care
Home Economics
Information and Communication Technology
Leisure Studies
Media Studies
Music Technology
Performance Studies
Performing Arts
Photography
Physical Education
Sports Studies
Travel and Tourism
Business and Management (see also Economics)
Design and Technology (see also Engineering)
Information Technology in a Global Society
Theatre Arts

General Studies and Critical Thinking A levels will only be considered as fourth A level subjects and will not therefore be accepted as part of a conditional offer.

Visual Arts

Mike, Islweworth, Middlesex, England

when i studied law(a hard subject) at university we used to put a note above the loo paper saying "sociology graduates please take one" i it is blatently obvious what soft subjects are; media studies springs to mind

peter codner, devizes, england

There is a huge waste of talent and most of it is in the comprehensives.

Flicking through the channels on my cable subscription I came across teachers tv, I was bored so I decided to watch a programme on some newly qualified teachers being mentored.

The class was probably a typical Year 9 all over the country, it comprised perhaps 3-4 children who seemed to be want to eagerly learn, quite a few a simply went with the flow and few who really were there in body only.

I am amazed that any teacher can get the best out of this diverese lot. Nobody in this class was well served, not the brightest because they simply were not being stretched. Not the average, and definitely not the zombies.

Comprehenive education is a miserable failure, I would reccommend John Denham to see what is really going on in schools.

AM, Birmingham, UK

This shows it is not the RG universities that are failing to attract candidates from working class backgrounds, they simply aren't there because comprehensives are pushing their pupils into soft subjects to push up their school's grade point average. If ministers want to address the problem of too few working class students going to the top universities then I suggest they address the problem at its source,. at comprehensives

Stephen, St. Ives, England

What is the criteria for defining a subject as a 'soft' subject?

Justin, Wokingham, United Kingdom

If you call a local FE college a "University College" the money train journey begins. Students bring money to colleges, even more so when the University College becomes an affiliate to an established University. These FE colleges do not offer science A Levels, rarely more than leisure language studies and maths for Accountancy. it is at this sub prime level that Blair's vision will be achieved.

Jane, Whittlesey, Cambs

What is the point of this article if it does not specity WHAT subjects are considered 'soft'? Please enumerate!

John Punshon, Milton Keynes, UK

Linked to the universally accepted "grade inflation" of the past 20 years, these soft A-levels are, academically, not worth the paper they are printed on. Time to get back to the subjects and standard of A-levels in the 60s & 70s and give up this absurd notion that every child should go to university. Not only has the standard of education in the country fallen from world class to "banana republic" grade, but we are failing to train many teenagers to do skilled jobs of which they are capable. Instead of encouraging immigration of those with such skill, whilst preparing home-grown youth for a life on benefits, we should reintroduce O-levels to determine who takes A-levels and retain only "hard", academic A-levels. The return of the "new universities" to their original "Technical College" classification, where they would teach practical skills (as with apprenticeships) would solve the problem of non-academic teenagers. University has simply become a way to avoid work for 3 years

Bob Finbow, Haverhill, England

Regardless of what school a person attends or their social background, if you can't get an A in a 'hard' A-level subject, what is the point of getting into a top uni if you aren't going to cope with the even more demanding workload? (At Cambridge most hard-working students work 12+ hours a day including weekends) Besides, the best mode of education for each individual is different - getting into RG universities is not the most suitable thing for everyone.

These universities want the best students in UK regardless of their background. My college's admissions tutor puts enormous effort into touring state schools to persuade students (and their teachers and parents!) that Oxbridge is a very real option for them, academically and financially. But if a bright student does not try to prove her abilities through her choice of AL subjects, the responsibility lies with her or whoever discouraged her from taking 'hard' subjects. If you have the ability, then go for it and take the challenge!

Ellie, Cambridge, UK