Brian Christley - get a grip man. The strike action is for the benefit of the students. No child should have to be a 1 in 30 statistic.
Cutting class sizes means more attention for the children in the class, more time to spend with each individual child and more time to mark the work of the students to establish their individual needs, thereby allowing them to maximise their potential.
I wish my children had been in smaller classes, rather than being one child in a class of 30 +.
Barbara, Ludlow, UK
If a parent can be fined for keeping one child away from school, then a teacher on strike should fined that amount times the number of children in his/her class.
Brian Christley, Abergele, UK
Perhaps the government could use prisoners released early because of overcrowded jails as classroom assistants? Where has Labour spent the massive sums of extra cash taken from taxpayers?
Tony, Newark,
The Telford school mentioned is selective. Nice of the Labour Minister to appreciate its benifits.
It is easy to teach a class of 70 when they want to learn.
robert everitt, wolverhampton,
For a start, scrap Religious studies. If parents want to educate children in their chosen religion then that should be done at home or place of worship. Refuse entry to children who cannot speak English. Bring back detention and the cane to restore order. lack of attendance should result in criminal proceedings against the parents. I left school in 1986. At that time there was still some degree of order in school. I had the cane once. I didn't run home and tell my father simply because he would have given me a back hander too. As a nation we have become strangled by politcally correct beardy types, as a result we have a largely uneducated population.
Steve Grady, St Helens, Merseyside
The arguments over class sizes are missing the point. Government statistics showing average class sizes of 21 are misleading, as they are across all classes and all schools. If they focussed on the core subjects, particularly maths and the sciences (where there is a shortage of teachers), they would find that there is a much higher average class size, and a corresponding lower standard of education.
The focus on broad-brush targets is leading to negative effects in the very subjects the government is most keen to improve in.
ACS, Bristol,
15 would be even better. If you're going to push for a change, why only go half way?
Farrukh, Woking, UK
Come on, there are not that many parameters here - number of teachers, number of pupils and errr.... that's about it. The only reasons there are for this not being achieved 10 years ago (because I remember it being a target then as well) are either gross incompetence or that unrestricted immigration has rendered useless the original simple equation.
We might as well give up if billions of pounds extra in our education budget really cannot achieve something as simple as lowering the ratio of pupils to teachers.
Rob, London,
I totally agree that class sizes are reduced in UK. I am a former teacher teaching in an inner-city London school and the variety of levels that one teacher has to teach to naturally penalises the highest and lowest achievers. You end up with a mediocre country, unless you can afford to send your child to a private school!
I was shocked to see a new teaching advert the other day, advertising that teachers will not get a 34K salary - 10k extra on the London starting salary.
On the one hand, I agree that teachers need better pay to stay in the capital, but on the other hand the Government has to realise that teachers don't go into teaching to get rich but to make a difference.
In the end, I was overworked - like a great many of my colleagues, and I left my job for the stability of the students. I miss it greatly, I was an excellent teacher, but at least I lasted longer than the average 3 years!
The Government needs to pay attention to the real experts - teachers on the frontline!!!
Amy, London,
"suggestions earlier this week from the schools minister Jim Knight that class sizes of up to 70 pupils were perfectly acceptable and could even promote good learning"
Once they're elected do they undergo some horrific intelligence affecting degeneracy or do we actually vote them in like this?
Nathan, Inverness, UK
I'm a 13 year old school boy in year 8 and am totally appalled that the schools minister has come up with this ghastly idea. I wonder how much time he spends in schools seeing for himself how it is with classes of 30 children. Even with this number everything is out of hand and behaviour continually disrupts lessons and teachers have no control over the class.
It is outrageous that a classes of 70 pupils have been suggested and it would be terrible being taught under these conditions, as classroom aides are ineffective at keeping disipline.
I wonder how the minister would feel if he knew his own child was being taught in a class of 70?
With this huge number one teacher wouldn't be able to provide the attention that each pupil needs and it seems that this idea hasn't been thought out very well. I strongly hope that this proposal never comes about because it can only help lower the standards of our schools.
Laurence, Manchester,
Class sizes of 70, with one teacher and a few teaching assistants! Firstly I'd be impressed if any classroom in an English primary school (the minister speaks only for England) could hold 70 children! Secondly, this also echoes a think tank bod that several years ago (I believe) suggested that the only "legal" teacher required for a school was a Head Teacher. All others could be "non qualified" who teach under the Headteachers direction.....
Andrew Reade, Hatfield,
It'd be a step in the right direction. My GCSE classes 3 years ago sometimes got to 40 kids in one class, and there weren't even enough tables!
Smaller schools would also be a great suggestion- schools automatically do better if people know eachother, demanding more respect and wellbeing.
Duh!
wiltshire wurzel, swindon,
Kids have too many subjects to learn today thanks to interfering Labour and their union cronies. This is just another excuse to bolster NUT coffers.
steve tea, manchester, cheshire.
Does this Jim Knight have children?Would he be happy to have his own children,if any,taught in a class of 70?What is the average class size for the children of the people who legislate and determine the educational conditions imposed on the overwhelming majority of children in the country?--Probably another case of being equal but some being more equal than others.
jerym eedy, caerphilly, uk
As a student teacher I was disgusted to hear Knights comments. He may have seen a 'super-class' work well on one occasion but as everyone knows, when an important visitor visits a school, the pupils are warned against misbehaving. Also his comment that 'there was good learning going on' - how does he know? Because they were quiet? I recently taught in a year 3 class or 31 pupils and it was exhausting, like many jobs. However, it would have been a lot easier and the children would have learned a lot more had the class been smaller as disruptive children can affect a whole lesson. However, working in smaller groups with the so-called trouble-makers, I noticed a marked improvement in their work ethic and general interactions. Smaller class sixes would undoubtedly work. This is again an example of teachers being taken for granted. Shame on Knight for his politically-inspired comments. These are our children's and our country's future we're dealing with!
Cian, London, UK
Yes, of course class sizes should be smaller. Perhaps 15 is a reasonable theoretical goal. But teachers have had a real 15% pay increase in recent years and they will only get more expensive relative to the national income. Let's imagine we go from classes of 30 down to 20 as a first step. That would mean 50% more teachers. That's around an extra £8bn on the total salary bill, using conservative numbers. There will never be a good moment to swallow that brick, but right now with all sorts of economic problems enveloping the UK, the teachers had better get used to long term thinking.
Colin, shrewsbury,
Maybe my memory is a little hazy, but I swear I heard a certain A. Bliar in 1997 bleating: "Education, Education, Education".
Jon Leigh, Beautiful rural Southern, France
Agree with teachers but one cannot use the formula " one size fits all".
There are a number of variables in pupil-teacher learnining-teaching equation that just relying on class sizes alone is irrational. How about auditing teacher performance against class sizes as a scientific study ?
Dr.Abdul Jaleel, Darlington, England
Surely, controlling class size is tackling the symptom rather than the cause.
Everyone knows there are fast learners and slow learners and the first move must be to separate them. I would be interested in teachers' opinions of the results and satifaction they would get from teaching a class of 30 or more students that were all bright, interested, and at the same level. Would slow learners be more interested if they were not always behind and didn't have other students for whom everything was easy?
Mike, Los Angeles, USA
This class size nonsense has been going on for decades. When I went to primary school in the 1950's the class size was around 25 - 28 pupils, and after I went to boarding school from the 1960's onwards the size was no more than 27, pehaps 30 at the very outside. Why does this miserable matter have to continue as an arguement decade after decade?
Weaver, China,
Brian Christley - get a grip man. The strike action is for the benefit of the students. No child should have to be a 1 in 30 statistic.
Cutting class sizes means more attention for the children in the class, more time to spend with each individual child and more time to mark the work of the students to establish their individual needs, thereby allowing them to maximise their potential.
I wish my children had been in smaller classes, rather than being one child in a class of 30 +.
Barbara, Ludlow, UK
If a parent can be fined for keeping one child away from school, then a teacher on strike should fined that amount times the number of children in his/her class.
Brian Christley, Abergele, UK
Perhaps the government could use prisoners released early because of overcrowded jails as classroom assistants? Where has Labour spent the massive sums of extra cash taken from taxpayers?
Tony, Newark,
The Telford school mentioned is selective. Nice of the Labour Minister to appreciate its benifits.
It is easy to teach a class of 70 when they want to learn.
robert everitt, wolverhampton,
For a start, scrap Religious studies. If parents want to educate children in their chosen religion then that should be done at home or place of worship. Refuse entry to children who cannot speak English. Bring back detention and the cane to restore order. lack of attendance should result in criminal proceedings against the parents. I left school in 1986. At that time there was still some degree of order in school. I had the cane once. I didn't run home and tell my father simply because he would have given me a back hander too. As a nation we have become strangled by politcally correct beardy types, as a result we have a largely uneducated population.
Steve Grady, St Helens, Merseyside
The arguments over class sizes are missing the point. Government statistics showing average class sizes of 21 are misleading, as they are across all classes and all schools. If they focussed on the core subjects, particularly maths and the sciences (where there is a shortage of teachers), they would find that there is a much higher average class size, and a corresponding lower standard of education.
The focus on broad-brush targets is leading to negative effects in the very subjects the government is most keen to improve in.
ACS, Bristol,
15 would be even better. If you're going to push for a change, why only go half way?
Farrukh, Woking, UK
Come on, there are not that many parameters here - number of teachers, number of pupils and errr.... that's about it. The only reasons there are for this not being achieved 10 years ago (because I remember it being a target then as well) are either gross incompetence or that unrestricted immigration has rendered useless the original simple equation.
We might as well give up if billions of pounds extra in our education budget really cannot achieve something as simple as lowering the ratio of pupils to teachers.
Rob, London,
I totally agree that class sizes are reduced in UK. I am a former teacher teaching in an inner-city London school and the variety of levels that one teacher has to teach to naturally penalises the highest and lowest achievers. You end up with a mediocre country, unless you can afford to send your child to a private school!
I was shocked to see a new teaching advert the other day, advertising that teachers will not get a 34K salary - 10k extra on the London starting salary.
On the one hand, I agree that teachers need better pay to stay in the capital, but on the other hand the Government has to realise that teachers don't go into teaching to get rich but to make a difference.
In the end, I was overworked - like a great many of my colleagues, and I left my job for the stability of the students. I miss it greatly, I was an excellent teacher, but at least I lasted longer than the average 3 years!
The Government needs to pay attention to the real experts - teachers on the frontline!!!
Amy, London,
"suggestions earlier this week from the schools minister Jim Knight that class sizes of up to 70 pupils were perfectly acceptable and could even promote good learning"
Once they're elected do they undergo some horrific intelligence affecting degeneracy or do we actually vote them in like this?
Nathan, Inverness, UK
I'm a 13 year old school boy in year 8 and am totally appalled that the schools minister has come up with this ghastly idea. I wonder how much time he spends in schools seeing for himself how it is with classes of 30 children. Even with this number everything is out of hand and behaviour continually disrupts lessons and teachers have no control over the class.
It is outrageous that a classes of 70 pupils have been suggested and it would be terrible being taught under these conditions, as classroom aides are ineffective at keeping disipline.
I wonder how the minister would feel if he knew his own child was being taught in a class of 70?
With this huge number one teacher wouldn't be able to provide the attention that each pupil needs and it seems that this idea hasn't been thought out very well. I strongly hope that this proposal never comes about because it can only help lower the standards of our schools.
Laurence, Manchester,
Class sizes of 70, with one teacher and a few teaching assistants! Firstly I'd be impressed if any classroom in an English primary school (the minister speaks only for England) could hold 70 children! Secondly, this also echoes a think tank bod that several years ago (I believe) suggested that the only "legal" teacher required for a school was a Head Teacher. All others could be "non qualified" who teach under the Headteachers direction.....
Andrew Reade, Hatfield,
It'd be a step in the right direction. My GCSE classes 3 years ago sometimes got to 40 kids in one class, and there weren't even enough tables!
Smaller schools would also be a great suggestion- schools automatically do better if people know eachother, demanding more respect and wellbeing.
Duh!
wiltshire wurzel, swindon,
Kids have too many subjects to learn today thanks to interfering Labour and their union cronies. This is just another excuse to bolster NUT coffers.
steve tea, manchester, cheshire.
Does this Jim Knight have children?Would he be happy to have his own children,if any,taught in a class of 70?What is the average class size for the children of the people who legislate and determine the educational conditions imposed on the overwhelming majority of children in the country?--Probably another case of being equal but some being more equal than others.
jerym eedy, caerphilly, uk
As a student teacher I was disgusted to hear Knights comments. He may have seen a 'super-class' work well on one occasion but as everyone knows, when an important visitor visits a school, the pupils are warned against misbehaving. Also his comment that 'there was good learning going on' - how does he know? Because they were quiet? I recently taught in a year 3 class or 31 pupils and it was exhausting, like many jobs. However, it would have been a lot easier and the children would have learned a lot more had the class been smaller as disruptive children can affect a whole lesson. However, working in smaller groups with the so-called trouble-makers, I noticed a marked improvement in their work ethic and general interactions. Smaller class sixes would undoubtedly work. This is again an example of teachers being taken for granted. Shame on Knight for his politically-inspired comments. These are our children's and our country's future we're dealing with!
Cian, London, UK
Yes, of course class sizes should be smaller. Perhaps 15 is a reasonable theoretical goal. But teachers have had a real 15% pay increase in recent years and they will only get more expensive relative to the national income. Let's imagine we go from classes of 30 down to 20 as a first step. That would mean 50% more teachers. That's around an extra £8bn on the total salary bill, using conservative numbers. There will never be a good moment to swallow that brick, but right now with all sorts of economic problems enveloping the UK, the teachers had better get used to long term thinking.
Colin, shrewsbury,
Maybe my memory is a little hazy, but I swear I heard a certain A. Bliar in 1997 bleating: "Education, Education, Education".
Jon Leigh, Beautiful rural Southern, France
Agree with teachers but one cannot use the formula " one size fits all".
There are a number of variables in pupil-teacher learnining-teaching equation that just relying on class sizes alone is irrational. How about auditing teacher performance against class sizes as a scientific study ?
Dr.Abdul Jaleel, Darlington, England
Surely, controlling class size is tackling the symptom rather than the cause.
Everyone knows there are fast learners and slow learners and the first move must be to separate them. I would be interested in teachers' opinions of the results and satifaction they would get from teaching a class of 30 or more students that were all bright, interested, and at the same level. Would slow learners be more interested if they were not always behind and didn't have other students for whom everything was easy?
Mike, Los Angeles, USA
This class size nonsense has been going on for decades. When I went to primary school in the 1950's the class size was around 25 - 28 pupils, and after I went to boarding school from the 1960's onwards the size was no more than 27, pehaps 30 at the very outside. Why does this miserable matter have to continue as an arguement decade after decade?
Weaver, China,
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