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Employees who smoke must be given time to attend clinics to help them to quit during working hours without loss of pay, new public health guidance recommends today.
The National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE) claims that the proposal will cut the £5 billion annual cost of lost productivity, absenteeism and fire damage caused by smoking.
It believes that a business with five smokers could spend just £66 on providing advice, including the cost of lost employees’ time, and see an overall saving of around £350 in improved productivity.
It is the first time that NICE has issued guidance that applies beyond the NHS, effectively including every workplace in England. The recommendations come as all workplaces, from offices to factories and pubs, prepare to go smoke-free on July 1.
Some representatives of industry condemned the proposals, claiming that NICE was “divorced from reality” and that business should not be expected to pay for employees’ dependence on tobacco.
Smoking costs the NHS an estimated £1.5 billion each year. Andrew Dillon, the chief executive of NICE, said that the advice was the best means of achieving smoke-free environments that would benefit both employers and employees. “Our advice is based on the best evidence of which workplace ap-proaches are effective for smokers and make business sense for employers.”
The recommendations include making information on local stop-smoking services widely available at work and, where feasible and there is sufficient demand, providing on-site support.
Local stop-smoking sessions typically last 14 hours over a six-to-seven week period. These are available on the NHS. People on the course spend two weeks preparing to stop with meetings every week lasting up to two hours. After stopping there are a further five meetings. At the end of that one in two people has given up.
Amanda Sandford, research manager at the charity Action on Smoking and Health, said: “Providing employees are offered help and directed to services with a good track record, this seems a very sound policy.”
But David Frost, director-general of the British Chambers of Commerce, which repreents 100,000 small and medium-sized family-owned businesses, told The Times:“My concern first of all is about NICE. It shows how divorced from reality it is. The idea that business should pick up the tab for an individual’s problem just shows how far it is from economic reality. It really is for business to create jobs. If people have a problem with tobacco dependence it is up to them to sort that out but not during working hours.”
Andrew Lansley, the Tory health spokesman, said: “It should not all be down to employers. The Government in 2000 recognised that occupa-tional health would be required in encouraging employees to give up smoking but appears to have abandoned its proposals in the NHS plan.”
However, Mary Boughton, chairwoman of the Federation of Small Businesses Health and Safety, said that small businesses recognised the need to support staff in the workplace.
“This will improve the health of staff and the productivity of businesses. It will also ensure that the new smoking laws are not broken.”
Simon Clark, director of Forest, the Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco, said it was “absolutely ridiculous” that smokers should attend clinics in working hours. “It’s wrong to expect employers to accept employees taking time off, and I imagine their nonsmoking colleagues will be very unhappy about it.”
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If the government told you that your obese employees had to lose 5 stone by July 1st then you'd clearly do something about it.
Fact is, these people are truely addicted. You think they smoke out of choice? You think all smokers are nihilist masochists?
They don't smoke out of choice just as you don't go to the pub and order a coke (if you're not driving). They need cigarettes just as much as you need your morning coffee or as much as you need food when you're hungry or water when you're thirsty.
Fact is, they're not the most productive lot, so it's a chance to sort this out. In a better world, people would be given a chance to sort themselves out. People smoke for a lot of different reasons and you need to get to the bottom of that. Boo-hoo if you're aggrieved over a couple of hours a week...you need to get some perspective.
Everyone just needs to calm down. It's not going to happen anyway. It was just a NICE suggestion.
John, Islington, England
How long per annum do the smokers spend outside?
Pete Morgan, Reading,
Bull .......... !!! I stopped smoking years ago as has a lot of other people. If they think that an employer should pay them they are mad !!!!, all this will do is to make more employers close up and move abroad.
People I work with waste about forty minutes per day having a smoke break, so in my opinion they should be made to work on extra or let the people who do not smoke leave early, (no doubt they would have something to say about that) then we would see how quickly they would stop!!!.
Bill, Dundee Scotland,
People are missing the point - smokers already take an extra 30mins for fag breaks each day leaving colleagues to cover for them...
...so, it makes sense for them to instead spend 15 mins a week getting help to quit, so in the long run they'll stop burdening others by 'just nipping out' for a fag. So everyone - including non-smoking colleagues and bosses - wins in the end.
Caroline Marlman, London,
Why not shut down NICE? That would save much more money and no one would notice it had gone- it adds no value.
Doug, Glasgow,
If I am addicted to spending time with my family can i have some time off work too???
DC, London,
Absolutely absurd! If people want to be stupid enough to start smoking they can jolly well quit on their own time at their own expense!
Furthermore, I would never employ anyone that had a fag hanging out their mouth, reeked like an ashtray and expected a smoke break every 10 minutes!
Chantel, UK,
If smokers are to get paid time off, maybe I'd better "start" smoking then! Whilst the smokers are having therapy, I'll nip into the bookies
Mark R, coventry,
How pathetic!
I'm an employer and ex-smoker. If you're stupid enough to carry on smoking, that's your problem. Don't expect me to pay for you lack of self control.
Mike, Salisbury, UK
Why should I have to work harder to cover for a colleague who blagged themselves on a 'give up smoking' course to address a self inflicted addiction?
And if this colleague failed to quit, will they have to work more hours than me in the future to make up for the wasted time?
Time for the insulated bureaucrats in NICE to enter the real world.
Matt Williams, London,
What a load of rubbish. !!! I gave up years ago without the aid of patches. Sheer will power. Are todays people not capable of looking after themselves, talk about a nanny state. Smokers already work less hours than anyone else in the office as they have to go outside every hour for a smoke break. They should take a few days off using their holiday time if they need any time off.......
Nick, Portsmouth,
I've a bad habit: I like bush walking on weekends, but it gives me bad blisters.
Can I get time off work to rest my poor feet, please. Oh...I can do that at work, can I?
Gosh, we need that type of legislation here in Queensland -- we have to be nice about these things, don't we... Don't we?
Cyrus, Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Theres enough reasons to "Skive" now without this.
Jenny Livy, Christchurch, Dorset
As an ex-smoker I agree with Peter from Cambridge and Simon Clark from Forest. Why should smokers have a privilege that others don't have - maybe overweight people would like time off to attend slimming clubs at their company and colleagues' expense?
Val, Edinburgh, Scotland
Why should smokers get paid leave for this when the rest of us don't get time off to go to the doctors? There's no certainty or proof that smokers will stop after attending these clinics, so it seems like a waste of time and very unfair for those of us who had the willpower to rest smoking in the first place!
Irate, 26, Oxford,
Listen/// Since when was being a smoker selfish... When will people get off their high horses about this.
Anyway I dont need my employer to pay for me to give up, I'll give up when I'm good and ready. This is just another obvious method from the anti smoking lobby to villify us once again...
Patrick, London, UK
Why not just pay smokers £350 less for being less productive? That would put the onus on the smoker to quit to reinstate their pay, not the business to nanny them.
G, London,
5 smokers X 14hrs will only cost £66!!!! That does not include travelling time to the clinic, parking charges etc. Can my overweight staff have time off to go to the Gym??
Grant, Maidstone, Kent
whose fault is to get addicted to smoking? the employees or the employers.. if they want to get themselves sorted, they have to do it at their own cost.. wat about people who really deserve time off due to work load... its not fair on them( non smokers)
nandi, london,
Is that some sort of joke? Smokers have the easy life at the best of times. As DH, Manchester says, they bugger off several times a day for a cigarette whilst the rest of us have to work. One person who I work with goes pretty much every 1-2 hours for a ciggy and I have to then do his work AND mine until he gets back! Nobody forced them to smoke. If they want to give up, then give up, but don't expect that we should have to work for them when they go for a smoke every couple of hours and then work for them when they go to their help group as well - all the time whilst earning money. If lung camcer is not a big enough reason for them to stop then I don't know what is! These are the same people who make your clothes smell in a restaurant, who empty their ashtrays out of the car into the countryside and who litter the verges with empty ciggy cartons! A disgusting habit which I chosee not to take up and would prefer it if I did not have to continually "pay" for others to keep up!
Steve, Canton Lucerne, Switzerland
Do any of these people actually run a business? Have they any idea how much responsibility is lumped on the employer already? What a ridiculous suggestion; if people are committed to giving up smoking working in an environment that prohibits smoking is of course conducive, expecting employers to grant paid time off is a pathetic attempt to move responsibility away from the individual to the employer.
What about people who drink too much and come in late as a result, should they be given paid time off? What about the overweight, should they be given time off at the employers expense so they can go on diets? Im surprised the Federation of Small business dont have something more sensible to say on behalf of their members whom Im certain would not agree with their representation of the SME voice thus far - get a grip FSB, say something useful for a change.
Sureya Landini, Soham, Cambridgeshire
I decided that I wanted to give up smoking and I went to evening meetings, run by the NHS. I wouldn't have dreamed of asking for paid time off work to go, it was my problem and I sorted it out in my own time. Oh and by the way, when I did smoke I didn't take one or two hours per day on fag breaks as someone suggested.
Sheila, Basingstoke, Hants
What a load of rubbish! They voluntarily and stupidly took up their idiotic habit in the first place, so why on earth should they be PAID by anybody, let alone their employer, to give it up? The social do-gooders are getting crazier and crazier by the day.
Gerry Watts, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Who are these idiots at Nasty NICE. I smoke, I don't want time off and I don't want to quit smoking thanks. Oh and before the passive smoking brigade kick off the NHS kill more people a year than passive smoking.
Steve P, Leeds, England
....The idea that business should pick up the tab for an individuals problem just shows how far it is from economic reality..."
" ...If people have a problem with tobacco dependence it is up to them to sort that out but not during working hours...
I'd be surprised if David Frost of the British Chambers of Commerce doesn't remember a time when employers did care for the wellbeing of their employees. A quick look through the BCC's web pages on employment would certainly suggest those 'dark' days of caring for the people that work for you, and not just the fat-cat shareholders, are well behind us!
Rod Munch, Northampton, UK
My Dad smoked 40 a day. He then had to go into hospital for nearly 3 months where smoking wasn't allowed, and he was unable to get outside to smoke. After the first 3 days when it became clear that he was suffering severe withdrawal symptoms he was given nicotine patches. Now he is still not smoking as he has been told he has had 4 mini strokes. The 5th could be fatal his consultant told him. The patches help, so why not tell smokers to get the patches on prescription to help break the habit at first, and then gradually wean them off. It may work. It's worth a try to start with. It won't cost employers anything - and why should it? I'm with Arthur on this - where will it end? Tony and Anthony have got a point too. There is no logic in NICE's pronouncement. Let's face it, there's no logic in the NHS anymore....... there's no logic in politics either and , oh silly me, I thought politicians are supposed to know what they are doing...!
Liz F, Exmouth,
HA!! HA!!! HA!!!! What a load of wimps we have ---no self control--no will of their own--we will be needing a lot af government nannies to get them dressed every mornyng soon ....
lilian, telford, shropshire
This is one area where equality has to stand. If you allow people, who through their own choices, started smoking, to have 'paid leave', then surely you have to give non-smokers the same options.
It's just pandering back to the 'victim' society, where everyone hates the nanny state, but refuses point blank to accept their own responsibilities and the results of their own actions.
Arthur, Newcastle,
yes, give them time off and pay them for that too and top of that let them claim expenses for buying nicotine patches and gums.........and then here is an idea, after every time they have attended the clinics, in appreciation give them a pair of tickets to a movie or something and then give time off from work to go to movie and pay them for that and........yeah claim expenses for popcorn,cola etc...and offcourse for the cab-fare back home too.................!
This nation is rotting............clearly
Karthik, London,
Typical rubbish from this condescending bunch. It would be nice if they spent their time healing the sick and not trying to tell us how to live our lives.
Why do they not put their heads together and try to solve a real issue facing the health service such as MRSA. I suppose that would require a policy with some substance and not at all as easy as demonising law abiding citizens. Who exactly is paying these people to come up with this drivel? Oh, it's us the taxpayer.
Mark Moss, Southend on Sea, UK
Smokers already get enough time off work with their 1 maybe 2 hours of fag breaks a day. Perhaps non-smokers should get an extra 4-6 weeks holiday to make up for the extra work they have to do whilst smokers are away from their desks.
Mark, London, UK
Smoking causes untold misery, disease and death. Businesses will benefit from having non-smoking employees. Stop smoking services greatly improve the chances of people actually quitting. The whole community needs to support people giving up smoking. These comments are just typical British cynicism, which may be amusing, but helps to contribute to our appalling health record in the U.K.
Elisabeth, Reading, UK
It sounds as if the Freedom Organisation for the right to enjoy Smoking Tobacco are not that keen on helping people with their right to stop smoking tobacco if that is what they desire.Now why would that be?
Derek, Hull,
Every packet of cigarettes carries a bold Public health warning which is clearly ignored by the purchaser.
Do NICE propose that the employers provide financial incentives to non-smokers equal to the cost of paying for the costs of the clinic plus the time taken off by the smoker to not take up the awful habit?
What if a smoker is allowed to attend the clinic, quits smoking for a period and then starts again? Should he be sacked or merely smacked on the wrist and given more clinic attendance?
JBS, Doncaster, South Yorkshire
What an outrageous idea! If smokers wish to attend a clinic to stop their addiciton to smoking, they should do it on their own time!
Why is it that NICE are suggesting this idea now - before the ban on public smoking in England - but it wasn't deemed necessary before the bans in Ireland, Wales and Scotland?
Maureen, Ware, Hertfordshire, England
As an employer running a manufacturing business one is used to state employees of one kind or another giving the impression that one is part of the social security system and that doing the job for which they are paid is something that one's employees do as an optional extra after they have been looked after. But the idea that production should be halted so that they can do good to themselves at my expense is an infantilism too far. I offer my employees £200 if they can give up smoking for six months. I do so because a) I like them b) most of them hate the addiction and c) because they know they could spend the money more usefully. After that I treat them like grown-ups and leave the decision to them.
A.D., Devon,
Another NICE scam for the timewasters, the unscrupulous and the work-shy who inhabit so many workplaces nowadays, joining all the many others (Baker days, maternity/paternity leave, etc. etc). Who does the work while the smokers are at their clinics? Who guarantees they will even go to the clinics and how many clinics will be open very conveniently on Monday mornings or Friday afternoons? Some of the people I know won't hesitate to use this free time to moonlight. So nice long freebies and scams coming up for some, but more work for no extra pay for the rest of us. How typical of this government and its wretched quangos.
Ann Keith, Cambridge, uk
I'm not quite sure where NICE gets its figures from. It will cost businesses a lot more than £66 for 5 people to attend non smoking clinics for 14 hours of sessions of meetings to help them quit. All this sort of news does is already make us smokers even more unpopular than we already are. As a smoker I certainly don't expect my employer to give me time off to attend such clinics, same as I don't expect my employer to give non-smokers time off for sickies.
a smoker, Cambridge,
"On the other hand they could just give them an office in which they can smoke.
Dick, Aberdeenshire, "
Typical "me me me" smoker attitude.
On the other hand accept that it's a personal problem and let them do it in their own time.
I like a drink, but I don't ask for a separate room away from non-drinkers to have a couple of beers during my working day.
David Milton, Trowbridge, England
Why should the tax payer pay for the illness generated by selfish people who have chosen to smoke, they can break the addiction, without taking time off work. It is not fair on all those employees who do not smoke, as well as the lost production when they are off.
It is bad enough that the smokers are permitted to take cigarette breaks, which can often run up to an hour of the working day on top of their lunch break.
If the NHS wants to run these courses to help people stop smoking then they should do it during out of the working day hours or during the lunch time into the city. That way it will not affect business and upset those who do not smoke.
Kesser, Colwyn bay, Conwy
What next? Paid time off for the unfit to go to the gym? Paid time off for the obese to go to slimming classes? Stress councelling for those actually working while colleagues are on maternity/paternity leave,smoking leave, fitness leave,fat leave?
Arthu, Henely on Thames, UK
Smokers already have more time off than their non smoking colleagues thanks to numerous fag breaks throughout the day. Presumably they also have worse health and so will often have more time off sick. This sort of policy will just discourage employers from taking on smokers in the first place.
Paul Owen, Birmingham, UK
It is not the problem of the employee or employer, but of the mad nanny State. Smokers strike back! Defeat the health fascists!
Marshall Askew, Maidenhead, England
'The Easy Way to Stop Smoking' - by Allen Carr.
If you want to stop smoking, just buy yourself a copy of this book, and read it.
Rob, Sheffield,
Yet again unfair on the non-smokers who already miss out on regular work time 'smoking breaks'. How about funding the staffing of weekend clinics instead? Incidentally, hypnotherapy to stop smoking nearly always works in just one or two sessions!
Ina de Souza, Trowbridge, Wiltshire
Oh no! the smokers spend enough time off the job as it is now lets give them some more off to cure the habit .
Ray Massey, BURTON, derbys
My solution for getting past the fact that my smoking collegues are having extra breaks during the day has been to join them (cigarette free of course) so will this mean that I will also have to stop taking my mini breaks during the day once the ban comes into force?
Stephanie, Bucks,
The item states that the smoking costs the NHS 1.5bn each year. How much does it earn in tax from it though?
Simon Brooke, Ilfracombe, N Devon
Total agreement from me.
Just one small rider though, when the smokers have been cured of the addiction they themselves entered into could they please pay for all the damage to the environment, non-smokers, NHS and the employers that have been duped by them back sliding for their whole career to get their fix.
Get a grip they waste time and money by the bucket full to carry out an action that kills millions every year and now they want to be paid to stop doing it.
thirtyoneshadows, newcastle,
This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. Smokers already get to much special consideration. If a non-smoker got up from their desk once an hour and went outside there boss would wonder what the hell they were doing.
Smokers don't care that they are killing themselves and those around them and if they do they can't be bothered to act on it. Why then should they get special treatment when they are forced into quitting by government legislation.
Emma, London,
Who are these idiots at Nasty NICE. I smoke, I don't want time off and I don't want to quit smoking thanks. Oh and before the passive smoking brigade kick off the NHS kill more people a year than passive smoking.
Steve P, Leeds, England
I don't know about the U.K. but whilst we have needle exchange rooms,free methadone programs for junkies we still have to pay top dollar for any anti-smoking patches,chewing gum or tablets.
Perhaps ,like Australia, the tax revenue from tobacco is so enormous the Government don't really want smokers to
I was a forty/sixty per day smoker but had a life threatening blockage of my carotid artery and like Peter of Cambridge,I gave up cold turkey.
More assistance should be made available to smokers if the Government is really serious about it's health warnings for potential and active smokers.
grant watt, Glenning Valley, australia
If people choose to smoke that is their problem we already have the situation where smokers work fewer hours than non-smokers as they disappear several times a day for their fix.
I was a smoker and gave up by simple will-power I did not require patches or tablets or a subsidy from my employer nor the help of a bunch of idiots funded by the taxpayer.
More self help and less self indugence is what smokers should try.
D. H., Manchester,
If (NICE) wants to be nice let them foot the bill for all the time off. They could accomplish this by having all the quitters give them the money they would otherwise be spending on cigarettes once they stop. Sounds like just another government plan that won't work but just an added cost to business. So what else is new?
Ronald Bromley, San Diego, CA, USA
::Sniff, sniff:: I smell creeping socialism...another opportunity for the government to step into our lives.
This would open up even more opportunity for abuse of the "system." Some may start smoking so that they could have paid time off. The thought process behind this is just plain scary. Like Arthur said "What next? Paid time off for the unfit to go to the gym?"
If you've got a problem of any kind, be it obesity or smoking, it's your responsibility to fix it...if you even want to.
Kenna, Kansas, USA
Typical of NICE. People are refused treatment on the basis of cost effectiveness by them yet someone else, already paying a fortune in rates and taxes, can pick up the bill. If the Health Service pay out £1.5 billion on treating smokers the governemnt has afair bit left over from the £8billion they get in taxes on tobacco. Let them use some of that.
Dave Proctor, Leeds,
What happens if they have all the time off and the pay, and they are unable to stop? Do they have to pay back all the money or do they have to work days in lieu, if they work days in lieu i.e Saturdays would this be classed as smoking in work time or would there a provisio for this....?
dachaidh, rhu, scotland
Perhaps NICE should spend a little more time approving life-saving medicines and a little less time on politically correct rubbish and appearing on BBC Breakfast TV.
neil glass, london, uk
On Yer Bike NHS - if you expect me to pay for staff to give up a stupid habit you can think again! I'll close shop first!
J H D Steele, Manchester, UK
Blimey! I'm going to take up smoking! These addicts already work far less than non-smokers - just count up all the 'I'm just popping out for a smoke' (every time at least five minutes) absences they already get without censure or deduction of wages, and then add this in. So, for taking care of my health and not letting myself become a weak-willed addict, I work several days a year more than these wasters. Time off to quit? Give us a break!
andrew mashkov, london, uk
Any self-control of,rehabilitation for or putting an end to a health hazard whether it has an impact on the surrounding public or otherwise, should be at the individual's expense in terms of resources, whether it be time or finances.Governments and organisations have obligations to the individual but these must be reasonably dispensed to the individual without undue imposition on others,be they organisations or other individuals.Institutions should not be put to great lengths to deal with something where the onus for the remedy lies squarely with the individual.Personal responsibility is the hallmark of a democracy for otherwise it is but a sham.
Tony Dibble, Perth, Australia
Roll on July 1st when the reality knocks on all smokers who insist that everybody panders to their discusting habit.
No one made them start smoking so why should the
rest of us suffer in covering the absense of those poor souls if outside or in rehab. (Lets hope it rains on July 1st)
NICE get real the cost is only £66 for 5 employees !!!!!!!!
Andrew, London, UK
I think I'll start smoking in order to get some time off......
Smokey , London,
Smokers aleady leave their work place for at least 10 mins when they wish to smoke, so the smoker with a dependancy of one cigarette an hour already does at least one hour less work per day than the rest of us. Easier if we banned smoking totally in the work place (or even better, ban it all together) then the dependancy would be eliminated.
Richard, Newport,
No way . . . if this is the case, then I want time off for dieting and exercising!
JOY, PONTYPRIDD, RCT
Would someone explain why no one has gone to the European Courts for breach of human rights due to the fact that car fumes can cause cancer and we are all subjected to this, but no one suggests banning cars for emiiting passive fumes, but smoking is.
Anthony Baker, London, England
You see Peter.. thats why winners never quit and quitters never win. I suggest that you start over again then claim that time off. Stick in there brother...Im behind you all the way
MAC, Pittsburgh, PA
What next? Paid time off for the unfit to go to the gym? Paid time off for the obese to go to slimming classes? Stress councelling for those actually working while colleagues are on maternity/paternity leave,smoking leave, fitness leave,fat leave?
Arthur, Henely on Thames, UK
Bother - I should have waited - I used straight will power to give up smoking! Now I learn that if I had waited I might have been able to get paid for not going to work as well. It's always the timing. No chance of a post facto cash lump sum I suppose?
Peter, Cambridge, Cambridge,
First time I've ever agreed with anything anyone from FOREST said. And probably the last.
Ray47, Nottingham, England
On the other hand they could just give them an office in which they can smoke.
Dick, Aberdeenshire,