Hey, cab, nyc, usa
They should've tried whether or not it was apparent that the man could not be saved. In a one out of any case what if he had been the one that would have survied? When you don't even make the effort, that's when you become less than human. Either side of this story is monsterous.

Amanda, Baltimore, USA

do not be so quick to judge until you have walked in the medic's shoes....As a NYC medic, and working the field for 9 yrs, you do not decide who lives or dies, but you are well aware of the condition of a person a you asses and what the outcome will be. There are 2 sides to every story.

cab, nyc, usa

This is surely a sad day and age that we live in whereby people are so apathetic and cruel. They should be charged with some degree of homicide and sentenced to a lengthy amount of time in prison for the crime that they commited. The state of this poor mans house was none of their business. Shame

lee fobbs, brookhaven, pa., united states of america

Like the state governor in the state and these 999 responders in this case it is so helpfful to know what our 'public servants are saying when they don't think we can hear them.

How about a mike and camera on them 24/7

john trotter, houston, tx, usa

I'm a Canadian seriously disabled with MS. Experienced similar attitude, not by ambulance attendants but by treating physician after arriving at the hospital. Doctor wrote me off once he learned of the MS. He thought I was unconscious. I wasn't, and heard everything.

Mark Pickup, Beaumont, AB, , Canada

This has nothing to do with being a national health care system. This has to do with two guys who just didn't care. It happens in the US and in the UK every day. And as some mentioned... Because they don't want to be resuscitated... they should be able to make that choice for others. Scary.

Dale Welch, Lompoc, California, USA

This isn't often spoken out loud but generally accepted by the medical establishment & we're supposed to be shocked when it is exposed? This has been happening for the longest & the louder the medical establishment denounces this practice, the MORE it goes on! They cover for one another all the tme!

Calico D'Nikonian, Bronx, NY, USA

What makes it difficult, is these are the individuals that you put all of your trust into to help you when you need it the most. I would like to think that if I became injured or sick, the doctors and medics wouldn't decide then to judge if they were going to help me, they just would.

Brian, Wilton,

I'm a US physician. It's not possible, from the information we have here, to determine if CPR was denied because it would have been futile or for a less acceptable reason such as quality of life/"worth".

The comments appear to be unprofessional, and in the US, such words are good way to get sued.

Daniel, Black Mountain, USA

This is scary - my house is never very tidy - i am epileptic - I have a handicapped daughter - want to make a decision on my life if I had a heart attack? Wouldnt stand much of a chance with these two now would I? hope they are not allowed to be in a position to "decide" on anyones life ever again

Junie, eastbourne,

Praises to the 999 staff for taking action! The ambulance services are close to the emergency communications staff on a professional basis, and in a sense co-workers. The man's death shows to both sides of human nature- those who are callous and those who are brave enough to speak out and stand.

Catherine, Wis, USA

what is this? a Lottery? How did these two heartless beings get to do this job in the first place? and How can we now trust our Ambulance Service? 59? walking with sticks? What was he supposed to be in that condition - a domestic god? I say where was the help he should have been getting?

Junie, eastbourne,

Please stop saying that only God should have decided if this poor man lived or died. The fact is that if it were up to God, the Amubulance wouldn't have been sent in the first place.

To say it's up to God is to deny any medical intervention for anyone.

A, Macc, UK

The victim indicated his desire to life by dialing 999. If the case is proved against these individuals they should serve time.

One day, they may come to understand what they have done and when they do, I hope they will be dealt with the evident compassion they lack.

Len Reynolds, London, UK

All life is precious. All human life has value.

Andy, Lancaster, PA, USA

Wonder how they would feel if this happened to be one of their parents, and two other paramedic had acted as they did????

Rosie Morthole, Palmer,

I agree with C Beckett - Innocent until proven guilty, BUT Mr Baker was only 59, walked with a stick and still in gainful employment. I hope they never come to my house, I'm 47 work f/t and my house is a mess too, because I CHOOSE to do BETTER things with my time, does that make me not worth it too?

Dee, Medway, UK

The entire system governing those former paramedics should be investigated. It's atrocious that two such horrible, heartless human beings got into that job.

Stewart, Santa Rosa, USA

Even if there was a slight 10 % chance of survival for the patient, and ambulancemen avoided to help on purpose, then this is a clear cut case of murder

alex, del city, usa

Who knew that if you have lived in Brighton during the tenure of these two paramedics, your chances of surviving a heart attack increased markedly by keeping your flat tidy and hiding your crutches?

Timothy O'Fallon, Palm Harbor, FL, USA

This is really heart breaking. I sure hope the poor man had passed on and didn't have to hear the cruel comments of those who should have taken care of him. I hope he finds more commfort where he is now then he was shown here.

Lisa , Las , U.s.A.

I'm an EMT in the US, and they teach that unless the person is unmistakably dead -- cases like decapitation, head totally crushed, lividity or rigor - you are to perform CPR. The only exceptions are patients with DNR orders.

Christina, Johnstown, PA, USA

Ask yourself...would I want these paramedics to come to my home if I were having a medical emergency? I most certainly WOULD NOT.

Deborah, McMinnville Oregon, USA

Having been an EMT since 1975, I have witnessed some very qualified EMS workers commit very unprofessional acts, always trying to prove how they are not affected by others' suffering. This is not an acceptable practice. All EMS workers must be trained to always keep compassion a priority.

Joe, La Porte, USA

To Frank in Charles Town: This incident happened in the UK, and so US law does not apply.
To all those in the US who think this an awful warning about an NHS-type service: the case is presumably rare and the reaction here should tell you how things usually work in the NHS.

Philippa, Newcastle,

The good part of this story is that the controllers acted properly, as most of us would. Most people are good and always have been. The fact that some are bad should not make us feel bad about society as a whole.

Harrison Picot, Haymarket VA, USA

Doctors, not just paramedics, make the same type of decisions every day. They are not recorded saying it, that's the only difference.

Mauricio Villablanca, Los Angeles, US

I work in the medical field. In the USA only doctors are licenced to decide if a person is dead. As such all medical personel are required to attempt resuscitation until a quified doctor pronounces a person dead.

Tony , Oak Harbor , Wa, USA

Wow. Quite dark. I wouldn't exactly be surprised if this had happened before, but obviously there was no one to notice it happening. Dealing with death so often must dull one's emotion and feeling towards it but this is something different.

Piers, London,

This is maddening but not surprising. Living and working in the disabled world for the last sixteen some years it brings great sadness as I realize just how little society understands, and its perspective on the real quality of life for people with disabilities.

greg, parsons, usa

I would not be so rash as to suggest some of those posting here go to Ethics lessons, but it might be nice if they went to English language night school to learn the rudiments of the English language and some basic spelling skills.

Barbara, Maidstone,

The real crime is that the ambulancemen were impersonating Police Constables. Only PC's can determine if a person is "worth saving". (Reference: The 2003 case in West Virginia where a Chief Constable denied CPR to a man in cardiac arrest because he had AIDS)

Frank, Charles Town, USA

I have been a Paramedic in the US for over 16 years. In reference to the trauma centers closing has nothing to do with this case nor treating indigent people. This case shows the decline in trained medical professional. Prosecute them to the full extend of the law.

Douglas Cofty, Colquitt Ga, US

As a 911 dispatcher in the U.S., I have to say that I was shocked and saddened to read this story. I have many friends in the law enforcement and rescue fields and the saving of lives is above all else to us. It's the reason why we are in the fields that we are. My heart goes out to Mr. Baker.

Dana, Mesa, AZ, USA

Of all the times I've been in hospital I've been treated very well, apart from one time, I was in a lot of pain & discomfort, & the nurse just completely ignored my cries for help, I reported her.
These 2 paramedics should be prosecuted, NO-ONE has the right to play God, no matter who they are.....

Julie, Leeds, UK

@Stephen, TX, USA

Very well, thank you. My dad was self employed but made marginal income throughout his life, so the level of private insurance probably wouldn't have covered my mother's prolonged cancer treatment, and they certainly would not have a pension to live on now.

Jeff, London,

"U.S. hospitals treat people all the time with no money - that's why several trauma centers have closed in my state." Amelia

1st, emergency treatment is not synonymous with quality medical care. 2nd, those centers are no longer treating anyone. 3rd, "LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.."

Michael Sheridan, Sacramento, California, USA

Ann of Empire, writes: "US system is far worse - first they check your bank account to see if you can pay. No money = no care. 18,000 a yer die in the US because of it."

Lies. By law all hospitals have to take patients and treat them regardless of ability to pay. They dont check bank accounts

Marc, New York, NY, USA

Political spin on 'Benefit thieves' and the elderly and disabled being a 'burden on society' was bound to backfire in just this way. There are more violent attacks, burglaries and public abuse on them. Is Mr. Baker the first to die because someone thought he 'wasn't worth it'. He won't be the last

Orin, Leeds, UK

If this is true, it is inexcusable.Poor Mr Baker was a human being like the rest of us.I'm a veterinarian and wouldn't treat a dying animal with such disrespect.May he rest in peace.

Mick, Thurles, Ireland

This is just so sad. The man clearly wanted to live as he dialed 999 for assistance. It's disheartening to think that he also may have been aware of what was being discussed as he lay on the floor breathing his last breath.

jessica, chicago, usa

Lives are never saved - they are only prolonged, and often not in a good way. These men may well have done Mr Baker a favour. I for one would not wish to be resuscitated.

Kathi, Eastbourne, UK

Ann from Michigan, you're EXTREMELY wrong. Every county in every State of America has State run hospitals in which it is illegal to be refused treatment because of inability to pay. If you're going to disparage MY country, be correct. YOUR unpaid medical bills are covered by MY taxes.

Rebecca, Colorado Springs, USA

No one should decide that someone is not worth saving - that isn't the jurisdiction of those ambulance men. Furthermore, the U.S. hospitals treat people all the time with no money - that's why several trauma centers have closed in my state.

Amelia, Los Angeles, California, U.S.A.

Jules, so because you're probably gonna die anyway, why bother?
Are you gonna support the paramedics when they choose not to resus you? Your husband? Your baby? Your friend? The fact is, Jules, EMTs are not God, and they are not employed to decide who has the right to live or die.

Rebecca, Colorado Springs, USA

To all my friends and probable relatives in the UK...How is the NHS working out for you? I wonder how many years the decedant had to suffer while waiting for his hip replacement? Can't wait to see how it will work in the States with nearly 306 million citizens.

Stephen, Dallas, TX, USA

I have to say that I support the paramedics. Even if someone has a cardiac arrest in hospital, their survival is far from guaranteed and to have one at home - the odds are far worse due to the waiting time before resus is attempted.

Jules, Truro,

Innocent until proved Guilty.
Do not prejudge until all the facts are heard in court. Let British decided not barrack room lawyers who prejudge everything!
Paramedics should not all be tarred with the same brush because of one incident.

colin beckett, Shipston-on Stour, Warks

Is this how a nationalized health care system will treat us? It is a sad and disgusting tale. My heart goes out to his family. Chris, Mississippi,

The US system is far worse - first they check your bank account to see if you can pay. No money = no care. 18,000 a yer die in the US because of it.

Ann, Empire MI, US

Why is everyone so surprised? We've been playing God for decades, deciding whether or not peoplr will even be allowed to be born or killed in the womb.
Humans used to have value simply because they are human. Now, we apply all sorts of standards that must be met before deemed worthy of life.

Marlon, Kelowna, Canada

Oh please if you think this doesn't go on in the private sector in the USA too you really are naieve. Clearly they were totally out of order and should be punished but the U.S. health care system is pay, pay, pay, pay, pay and if you can't afford medication then god help you.

Tony, Chicago, USA

Cold and heartless...yes... the entire world has become cold and heartless. This is what happens when you turn your back on your Creator.

Dan, North Bend, Oregon, USA

>To Those who are defending the EMT's: Please Read!!
They did not even ATTEMPT to help the man! How can you defend that? It's not as though they tried and then stopped, they took one look at the poor gentleman and said "NO WAY". What a callous thing to do to someone, think if it was your DAD!

Julie, phoenix, USA

Wow . I have been in US health care for a year. You don't walk into a home and say, oh that person has no value.. and wait till he dies and lie about it. Who are you to say that? This is almost cold blooded murder especially since the guy called for his life to be SAVED! Throw the book at them!

Azzie, Denver, USA

These ambulancemen were deciding if the man should live or die because he had a "dirty uncluttered house"! I hope that these men are given (with equal "compassion" ) their justice from the court! I wonder if they have done this before to others? I better go clean my house now, to! You never know!

Larry Powers, Pasco, Washington, U.S.A.

How sad and weird! It's outrageous that the EMT's let their god complexes run wild and decided that they shouldn't bother to resuscitate Mr. Baker.

Jane V, St. Paul, USA

Clearly there needs to be an investigation in to this matter. To comment without knowing the facts would be naive.

brendan woodhouse, nottingham, united kingdom

Murder, Manslaughter ? it is obvious that two of those contributing to this blog don't know much about the law. However I have to agree with their sentiment. Standing by and watching a man die, shame on them. After all we put our trust in these people to look after us and our loved ones

Alan, Surrey, UK

And then people wonder why some are reluctant to carry an organ doner card! Trust NOBODY.

Kate, Sheffield, South Yorkshire

The charge should be manslaughter. They were heard 'deciding' whether it was worth resuscitating this man.
They were heard 'conspiring' to say the man was already dead.


How many times have they done this when there was no 'open' telephone line? Are we to believe this was the first time?

LB, Birmingham, west Mids

Is this how a nationalized health care system will treat us? It is a sad and disgusting tale. My heart goes out to his family.

Chris, Mississippi, USA

And the USA wants to have nationalized health care. God help us.

Rob, Jefferson, USA

What is even more horrifying to think ,is,how many or these rogue mini God's are working for the ambulance service and are not recorded when they decide not to help a patient!

These men should not be charged under civil law,but under criminal law and for the charge of manslaughter.

John, Isle of Wight, UK

When you have a society that dehumanises its fellow citizens by branding them chavs and such like, this sort of thing isn't so surprising.

tracey, hornsea,

Since when are ambulance or EMT personnel qualified to make such judgement calls. It is my experience that resuscitation does work and an EMT should always attempt it unless there is clear indication of severe trauma. In this case they decided the persons quality of life was not worth the effort.

Rob, Jefferson, USA

Why did they choose this profession?
They should see what my houseshare is like... Yet I haven't murdered my 'housemates' (yet).
Such a shame for this gentleman.

Helene, Bristol,

If these men were recorded as saying that they would tell headquarters that this poor man was already dead when they arrived (when in fact he was still alive), then they should be charged with murder. Simple as that!!!

Margaret, Ealing, UK

How disgraceful. These ambulancemen should be charged with manslaughter at the very least. To the people who say 'reserve judgement' and 'i work in the nhs', working in NHS does not make you a 'good' person beyond the law. Episodes of neglect in the NHS is growing and it needs stopped.

Rahul, London,

If they are guilty as alleged, I hope they throw the book at them.

Perhaps the same charge of "wilfully neglecting to perform a duty in public office" should used to prosecute all those nurses who place food and drink out of reach of elderly patients, and refuse to help them eat.

Godfrey, Brentwood, England

Police, nurses and firemen, need to have emotional detachment from what they see on a daily basis. It helps them focus on the very difficult job at hand. However, the implication is that these paramedics did not save his life because they thought his flat was untidy and his life not worth saving.

Mike Gow, Bristol, UK

I think this is horrific!
It concerns me that those in meanwhile jobs are badly paid while we spend over the odds to attend football matches and ultimately pay Beck's greedy wage. We then moan about paying tax that helps fund the NHS. Its sad but, are they fully to blame or are we acountable too?

Frankie, Nottingham,

I think the comment "value judgement" nails it. It was not part of the job description to comment on anything but the medical emergency in front of them, if you're so desensetised get another job! A valued member of society has been lost, my condolences to Mr Bakers friends.

Margaret Walker, South Lanarkshire, Scotland

No one in the world can give life to the dead except for God. Where they playing God? deciding whether he should be given death or stay alive?

Priest, Westminister,

I am a 59 year-old man who lives alone. My house is untidy, but I enjoy my life.
Pardon me, but I am going to do some tidying up now. You never know when you might need help!

Richard Cooper, Dunstable , UK

This case is an utter disgrace. We rely on medical professionals to do their jobs because ultimately lives are at stake.

Ambulancemen have no right to decide on who is and who is not worth saving.

Those medical professionals who no longer want to do their jobs should seak a change of career.

Ed Wood, London, England

Since when has the ambulance men suddenly inherited the power of God by saying he was not worth saving,every human being and animal is worth saving and to all those that say don't jump to conclusions, do you think the police would have been called in if this was not a serious matter.

william thomson, lincoln, u k

I had a similar experience when my Father passed away. The ambulance crew arrived, took a look at his two oxygen generator machines, then decided not to resuscitate before really looking at Dad. They explained dutifully that they had made an assessment of his 'quality of life.'

Arek, London,

The fact that they were even discussing whether to save a life instead of trying to save the patient, sickens me. The NHS just treat people like meat.

steve tea, manchester, cheshire

It's absolutely outrageous. If this report is true, they should throw the book at them. They're not fit to work in the NHS.

Suzy, London, England

to those commenters defending the ambulancemen, remember, there is a difference between "not possible to save" and "not worth saving" - to decide the former is the job of ambulance personnel, to decide the latter is emphatically not.

Marco, Kraków, Poland

Christopher ur comment explains why little care is shown by NHS staff to patients.
No one is demonising ambulance crews. In this story, the rights and wrongs isn't whether resucitation would saved Mr. Baker. But, [if proven] the failure to resucitate because they deem the house untidy = neglect!

Dominik, london,

same thing happened to me a couple of months back.i felt uncontrolable pain in my whole body and lost conscienceness crying for help, yhinking that its time to die.my friend called 999 who came after along investigation and told me that the service is for dying people and u should consult GP.

ZIA, london, UK

Things are different in operating theatre,or in the street for that matter but resuscitation rarely works-and maybe at times and in certain places it 's kinder not to attempt it.

a williams, Farnham, uk

If someone has to be resusitated - ie they are not breathing and their heart has stopped - they are already dead. It is then up to an individual whether they are able or willing to try and resusitate.There are so many factors in play I certainly wouldn't judge anyone in this position.

Cath, london,

No one was there accept the ambulance crew, it is quite likely that this patient may have been beyond resusitation, there is no indication as to the length of time between the call being made and the actual arrival of the ambulance. Don't judge without knowing the full facts. I am a Paramedic.

Peter, Manchester, UK

I'll wait for all the facts to emerge before reaching judgment.

Simon Cammies, Basingstoke, England

There is no indication as to whether Mr Baker was perhaps beyond resuscitation when they arrived. From reading Tom Reynolds blog it seems that futile resuscitation is sometimes attempted purely for the benefit of family members present, which wouldn't have applied here.

Kate, NSW , Oz

To those who criticise without being there and knowing the full facts, hang your head in shame as the individual may be beyond resuscitation when the emergency crew arrived, only the people on the ground can make this decision. Remember the press will print anything for a headline. I also work NHS.

andrew, Colchester,

This is the one time when people who have been saved by ambalance crews beed you to support them. This is all ambalance crews not just Brighton

+ If this crew in Brighton saved your life this is the time to stand up and say so in court,, YES BIG ERROR,, but these chaps save lifes

Nicholas Iles, Oswestry, Shropshire, United Kingdom

It disgusts me what happened here, but I can't blame the ambulanceman, I only blame the government for creating this culture. It's like other cases where government policies that are so extreme to manage (ie targets!), that the front end operational services are diluted to please the pen-pushers.

Helen, Wigan, UK

The ambulance men should face a charge of attempted murder.

Alastair, Alicante, Spain

To Christopher - I understand how you may need to be desensitised to be able to cope with the stress of such a job, but to actually neglect a dying man is something else! The state of someones house should not decide whether they should be saved, nor should a persons appearance, race or religion!

Mike, London, UK

High stress...but if you can't hack the pressure you don't deserve to have the job. They are paid to help each and every individual irregardless of their physical state. I only hope that they are charged. They truly deserve to suffer the severest consequences for their cruel neglect.

Miah , London,

This just sums up the total lack of regard for life and people we have in the UK today, what a cold and heartless society we have become.

John Smith, Glasgow,

Christopher: No-one is suggesting that health service workers should ever need to become personally involved, but if your job involves saving lives that's what you do. Anyone in that line of work who starts making value judgments about individuals needs to do another job. Full stop.

john , Ashford, Kent

Disabled are vulnerable. They go through life being taking advantage of, from the lack of quality education through to lack support in the community. These ambulancemen are named and shamed but unfortunately they will not receive a jail sentence which will serve to warn others in the public service.

Jane, London, UK

I used to work in a similar high stress job where I was desensetised for eight hours a day by the sheer mindless futility of life. The only way you can cope is if you stop seeing people as individuals and try to take away the constant sense of urgency. It sounds mad but thats what you become - mad.

Christopher, Notts,