The only way to honestly argue that IQ is independent of geographic origin is to argue Creationism.

Other_Bill, Reno, NV

Now we all know why Watson is so difficult to work with.

By the way, the reactions to this article show that the issue of 'IQ and race' have nothing to do with objective science. "Everybody knows that", or as the nazis would say, "Es ist algemein bekannt das..." and then they would spew some common place about the Jews, Slavs, etc. The appeal to 'common knowledge' is a real giveaway. Science, including DNA, has shown that there are no races of modern humans, the way 'race' or 'sub-species' is defined in biology. Not only that, but 'sub-saharan Africans' are more genetically diverse than people from any other region on the planet.

IQ scores of large numbers of people are reflective of their social class and income, not their genetic makeup. As African Americans become more middle class, their average IQ scores go up. The racists want to believe that IQ is all about (literally) brain size and the 'factor G'.

I wish more Whites would come out about their Black ancestry.

Henk Bakker, Amsterdam, NL

This analysis is an entertaining parlor trick, but what does it demonstrate?

Clearly, Watson might well say the 16% were not genes involved with intellectual capacity.

That differences exist between human groups other than skin color should be obvious and not controversial.

We know the propensity for certain diseases varies a good deal by group. We know physique varies. We know talent for activities like sports varies. Even longevity varies.

Both tests and historical experience do tend to support the idea that in the particular analytical abilities measured by IQ, blacks on average score lower, by a standard deviation.

The historical experience comes from the relatively small number of blacks who succeed at science, business, or finance, areas requiring strong analytical skills.

By contrast, Asians and Ashkenazi Jews excel at both the test and at success rates in these disciplines.

This is not calling anyone inferior, just pointing to differences.

JOHN CHUCKMAN, toronto, Canada

Scientists are still confused in daily practice concerning the social construction of race. The claim made by Kari Stefansson of DeCode is case in point: "This level is what you would expect in someone who had a great-grandparent who was African,...” “It was very surprising to get this result for Jim.”

Why would this result be surprising? We know that persons of African descent lived in the British Isles at the time Watson's ancestors would have lived there. So why would it be surprising that one of them married into Watson's family?? Indeed many of the persons of African descent in the British Isles or Europe in general from the time of the slave trade to WWII were persons who married into families of European descent.

Cynically one might suggest that Stefansson believes this surprising via the same ideology that prompted Watson's comment; that African genetic ancestry is associated with lower intellect. Lets hope that's not the case!

Dr. Joseph L Graves Jr, Greensboro, NC

If the dna results are correct, I wonder if watson knew them before he made those bogus comments a couple of months ago. I would have assumed he did considering the field he works in.

martin, london,

and what exactly is the point of this research?
I was concerned with Dr Watson's careless remark, but this worries me even more.

Someone who is (and looks) african.

Sol Tims, london,

Mean averages, groups, generalizations... What about the children of African descent who shine at school and what about the children of Chinese descent who do badly? I think that not having written languages until recently and being isolated from scientific developments elsewhere has been a disadvantage in the modern world for many people of African descent. It doesn't mean they have less potential. The fact that Anglo-Saxon English was first written down 1,500 years ago has as much to do with chance contact with other groups of people and exposure to written Latin than with Anglo-Saxon native intelligence or initiative per se. It's aggressive to make sweeping judgments about huge groups of people: we are all individuals.

Cassandra, London,

GM, Brisbane: my child is part northern European and part sub-Saharan African. He has an IQ of 138. Are you suggesting that his northern European side has won out?

Cassandra, London,

For the reasons mentioned above, i.e. differences between African kids in Africa and in the UK, I doubt I agree with Dr.Watson: Intelligence develops by confronting and solving problems, which do not arise in a vacuum. If the problem you need to solve is surviving a lion and you can solve this, you are intelligent. If the problem you deal with is sending a rocket to the moon and you can solve this, you are intelligent. If you need to steal to survive and you can do that without getting caught, you are intelligent. If you have all the opportunities in the world but instead choose to do drugs, you are not intelligent.
However, I think it is far more important to ensure that everybody can voice their views, especially scientific views, even if incorrect, than whether one is right or wrong.

A.Dimitriou, Rome, Italy

So many opinions. So much concern. So little science. So much fear.

Keith

Keith, Centurion, South Africa

It really baffles me to know how many racist there are out there who uses this medium as a channel to propagate their ideas. What makes it worse is to know that a large majority are well-educated people, the very group that lead our future and the future of our children.

It is mathematically impossible, if not impractical and boring to have the 6 billion people on earth agree the discussion on this board exemplifies that theory. WE CANNOT AGREE ON EVERYTHING period.

Think less about who is more or less intelligent and instead channel your energy into more pressing global issues such as global warming, HIV AIDS and world poverty. WE ALL CAN AFFECT CHANGE THERE.

Felix Unogwu, Washington , DC

Another related story in the times today is relevant and worth a read. Why do people find this so hard to discuss?

Why is it racist to suggest that different races may be genetically different to one another?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3031104.ece

GM, Brisbane,

I hope James is shown the findings. The findings of the Bell Curve Theory are based upon African AMERICANS, White Americans and Asian Americans. The research was not conducted on a level playing field because environment (money, encouragement of education, role models...)and culture were not taken into account. Some parts of Western African have an education-heavy culture and it is no coincidence that these are middle class. You will be hard pushed to find African Americans with the same priviledges

"The slaves were sold to the European and Arab slave traders by their own people!" I'm not sure if you have seen recent documentaries regarding parents selling their children into slavery but poverty makes people do funny things huh?

Africa's "present" problems are due to corruption. This is no reflection of the general level of intelligence of African people. Corruption does, however, affect schools in Africa and so many children are not being taught to the standard they should be.

Jacinta, London,

Cayman, a point of correction, Europe faught the most wars in world history than any continent. And please rememmber that every society on this planet moved from stone age. The developed under developed dichotomy is a recent development. Have you also studied the causes of the wars in Africa? the sponsors, suppliers of arms etc. Africans are partly to blame but Europe has its fair share of the problems in Africa. Have we created a fair world? A just world order? do we not dictate the prices at which we buy primary commodities from Africa and sell back to them setting our own prices?

Max, Trento, Italy

I don't see how this changes anything. The arguement still remains the same, regardless of whether it is propounded by a man who is black, white, or of mixed heritage.

Oliver, London,

This article worries me. I wonder how deCODE Genetics got hold of a sample of James Watson's DNA. Did he give it to the company voluntarily? If not, you may find that it is against quite a few laws not only to take and analyse an individual's DNA but also publish the result in Sunday Times. If he has not voluntarily participated in this 'experiment', I sincerely hope that he will take action against the Sunday Times and deCODE Genetics.

I agree with Shaun Lazzari. The title of this article is ridiculous. How does the Sunday Times know what James Watson thinks or knows about his ancestry, especially as he was not available for comment!?!

Kaisa Puustinen, Southampton, UK

Samuel! Just a slight correction: The latest theories place our origins more towards Asia. And if we did originate in Africa, it was way before the end of ice age (ended approx 13 000 years ago). I believe that the African "Exodus" was about 40 000 years ago? And please, do not blame Afrikas present problems on "colonialism and unregulated capitalism". Subsaharan Africa was virtually a Stone age society, with more or less constant tribal wars. And before you mention the slave trade- slavery has been (and still is in certain African areas) a part of the society. The slaves were sold to the European and Arab slave traders by their own people! Todays Africa: I find it strange how quickly the well functioning African countries degraded into Anarchy, waes,poverty and such!

Jan, G.T., Grand Cayman

Ho Ho Ho! How very unfortunate; a question of kettles and pots, eh? S. Barraclough

S. Barraclough, Huddersfield, W. Yorkshire

So James Watson will have to add self hatred to his hatred of others.

Kim, London,

I am sure that knowing your DNA could cause problems.For example all those African-Americans who have used positive discrimination to get into good colleges could well find that they are ethnically less African than some of their peers, who thouht they were Caucasian, and had to study harder to get into college. What about clubs?People at the door checking you for your DNA before you are allowed into the local African-Caribbean club which has been subsidised by the local council, could find that its members are less African than the local working man's club which doesn't get a grant because they are considered to be too white,whose members might in fact have African DNA.We might all have to carry our DNA around with us..

Jan, London, England

What unmitigated rubbish, and from mediocrities who couldn't carry Watson's calculator. These are the same characters who insist that race has no biological basis, that merely a fraction of a percent of genes differentiates the African from the European, but now, just to take a cheap shot at Dr. Watson, claim fully sixteen percent of his genes are African.

This is the price of political corruption in academia, one can't believe anything these so-called scientists have to say on this subject.

James, Canandaigua, New York, USA

This is all nonsense - we share huge percentages of our DNA not only with other so-called races, not only with other animals, but also with every plant you can name.
'Racism' - surely the greatest crime mankind can ever commit - (yes, I am being ironic) is really no more than the xenophobia we have suffered from for ever. We hate other populations not only on racial grounds - which usually means no more than skin-colour - but for reasons of language, religion, smell, recent origin, or just because of our general hatefulness - looking for someone to despise, persecute or ill-treat.

Priscus, Harrow , Middlesex.,

"JAMES WATSON...has been found to have 16 times more genes of black origin than the average white European."

I'm not supprised. This actually explains his racist behaviour.

jayil, london, uk

I don't know about genetics, but my brother-in-law determined after his second million to help the poor Africans-

He joined the African Development Bank, went through 2 coups in the Ivory Coast, and escaped to Asia wiser about corruption and evil in (Black) Africans' cultures.

Let them learn how to develope without us. Its less painfull for us.

Its not genetics, its choice.

Jack E., Highland , NY USA

Guessedworker claims that "everybody knows ... that mean IQs of Sub-Saharan Africans are low". Who is this "everybody" ? Probably Guessedworker and his/her like-minded friends. There aren't any evidence supporting his/her claim in the blog he/she's quoted. Moreover, as every serious scientist knows, IQ is considerably influenced by *environmental* factors.

D.Case suggests that Watson's view is borne out by exam results in the UK. Exam results aren't dependent *exclusively* on pupils' IQ. The fact that on average Black pupils in the UK have worse exam results than white pupils doesn't mean that the former are less intelligent or talented. There are social and cultural factors which contribute to this phenomenon (see eg. the report of the London Development Agency, www.lda.gov.uk/upload/pdf/Educational_experiences.pdf ). And how would D. Case explain the fact that on average Black African pupils in the UK fare better than Black Caribbean ones ?

JT, Wroclaw, Poland

I have absolutely no doubt that many black people are cleverer than I am but who has actually disproved Watson's general observation? It's ridiculous that James Watson can be disgraced for stating a trend that can be demonstrated in scientific studies, yet Samuel Waumsley of Capetown claims the moral high ground on the basis of an embarrassingly stupid claim that we all originally came from Africa at the end of the last ice age. As for claiming that many British people have markers showing they have ancient Russian ancestry, surely they realise that thousands of years ago, that part of the land mass was not the Russia inhabited by the Slavonic Russians of today. I thought everyone knew that most of the Western European peoples came originally from what are now known as the Russian Steppes. It doesn't make them Russian any more than you can say that peoples who, millenia ago, originated from what is now Africa are related to the Bantu people who wiped out the original inhabitants.

Tam Earl-Aine, Cheltenham,

I see the utopian leftists are in full force here.
Of course, if people aren't equal, their whole theory of justice, equality, and fairness falls right on its face.

Let's look at physical characteristics. Is it a stretch to argue that white people on average are taller than people of Chinese descent? Or is that racist?

You can also look at Chinese second and third-generation populations that grew up in America in households with about the same amount of affluence as the average American and they're still shorter on average though there is a positive effect of living in better conditions.

Why then is it so hard for many to fathom that it is possible that nature and nurture both have a discernable effect on the mental characteristics (brain) of a race.

Let's not get our panties in a knot here. All evidence points to the fact that there are differences between the intellectual levels of various races. Whether we can measure intelligence or not is a different story.

Thaker, San Diego, USA

>It is impossible to define general intellegence without reference >to faith.
>Fact.

I agree. People who believe in an invisible sky daddy protecting them are clearly off their rocker.

P.S. You misspelled intelligence.

Evan Bonner, Arlington, VA

The racists will soon come out with all the pseudo science tools they can muster to attempt to discredit or spin the genetic analysis of Dr. Watson, a fellow racist.

Janet , Ontario, California

What a great opportunity for Dr. Watson to sue his former employer for racial discrimination. But I guess the doctor just does not have the right number of genes necessary to qualify for legal representation by racist groups. Being forced to resign his position is further evidence of no honest scientific inquiry when political correctness chills speculation.
His genetic risk should include consideration for hemochromatosis. Estimates place the percentage of this genetic at one in 300 to 400 with white European ancestry. It is more prevalent than sickle cell anemia for Africans. It may be the basis of several above listed afflictions.

Anton Kuster, Amarillo, Texas, USA

In any case, everyone knows Crick was the smart one.

Papi, Montreal, Canada

I suppose that's why he made the stupid comment about race and intelligence.

Mike Del Sol, London Town,

It is impossible to define general intellegence without reference to faith.
Fact.

andy wainwright, colchester,

Actually Jon from Northumberland, this should be the easiest thing in the world to disprove. Watson made his genome public as explained in the article. Anyone with the time, skill, and inclination can go to http://jimwatsonsequence.cshl.edu/cgi-perl/gbrowse/jwsequence/ and check for themselves.


As for his features, I have a black (Torres Strait Islander) grandparent and nobody would know it from my appearance.

Michael, Canberra, Australia

I guess this means that he's 16 times less intelligent than he should be? Maybe the Asian genes make up for African ones? Either way, in 10 more years people are going to be laughing at the idea of racial equality. The people who defend it so hard today, will be the same people saying "I knew it the whole time." You'll see.....

Gordy, Niagara Falls, NY

It is sad when the press abuses genome and health information without impunity.

DBC, New York, USA

It is sad when the press abuses genome and health information without impunity.

DBC, New York, USA

Yo Bro Watson. What it is man ! Looks like you and me gonna share some fried chicken

Benjamin

Benjamin Dover, Croydon,

I love it .. .

'Breast cancer - 1.45 times greater than average'

So erm, basically he's a bit of a tit?

Desmond Coughlan, Paris,

I would very much like to ask Sir John Sulston, what exactly Dr Watson's tainted DNA has to do with his research, it would seem that the pro-multicultural scientists (any scientist with an agenda to promote forced integration and globalism) are trying to use this to some how discredit and belittle Dr Watson's research, now considering these are the same people that prance around telling every body that race is of no importance and is in turn expendable and interchangeable, it is strange that they seem to care so much about the purity of Dr Watson's genes.

B, NOYB, AUS

If you call Watson "black," aren't you confirming the "inferiority" of the "black race" you claim to champion? All "white" or "Aryan" racism is based on the assumption of white racial purity. If the genes of blacks or other non-whites are NOT INFERIOR (as all you good people claim to believe), then there should be no problem in accepting black or other nonwhite ancestry in white persons. The racist term "passing for white" is an insulting oxymoron and should be retired. If you LOOK WHITE, then you ARE white. If you say otherwise, you are endorsing a racist idea.

AD Powell, Ann Arbor, MI

I am Indian. My wife is English. I have two sons- one olive skinned with brown eyes-he would pass for Italian , and the other - white - with blue eyes, exactly like my wife. Certainly hope he's mine! Fortunately, he has my pointy ears

ricardo de souza, goa, india

Thank you, Songstress! We are really all the same particularly given the impact of slave trade on its so called pure white gene pool in the US. We are all Africans in varying skins and I, for one, am eager to hear what this supercilious Western thought has to say when the Chinese have dominated the world and made intellectual serfs of all of us. We'll all have to get off our laurels and work harder than ever. Will whites then claim a closer genetic relationship with the Chinese to get ahead?

Edward Bee, Stockholm, Sweden

Some of our really distant ancestors may have come from the African continent ,that does not mean that they are the same as modern ,Africans. Also those of middle England who believed they were of British Descent - it is not Russion genes they have but norsemen or Vikings who built western Russia. It is not true that we all came from Africa at the end of the Ice Age. There were indigenous peoples living at the edge and on the ice sheet and some who even travelled along the edge of the ice sheet to what is now North America - The'Soluterians'
The history of man presently popular has been succeeded years ago but continues to be largely ignored for dubious political reasons. Grow up, be proud of what you are whatever you are. Thank God we are not all the same . Not all countries belong to all peoples - there is such a thing as birthright, else why did pepole oppose white rule in Africa?

Jo Leigh, South London, England

That lab conspiracy theory is laughable; tampering could so easily be confirmed with another test.

So called classic black features have been dictated in the western world, through tribes that fell victim to the slave trade and reinforcement via media images. In Africa there are tribes with straight noses and straight hair and skin and eye colour every shade you can think of. This doesn’t automatically mean the presents of Caucasian genes are responsible and let’s not forget the existence of blonde haired and light-eyed albino’s in African tribes.

And for those who aren’t aware, there are mixed race people in the world with African parentage that can pass for white with natural blond hair and blue eyes. Such features are not exclusive to people with a strong caucasian ancestry. Therefore just looking at common white features doesn't prove anything. You must have heard the expression 'passing for white', so yeah, you do need to be a geneticist to work it out.

Songstress, London, UK

I agree wholeheartedly with Mr D Case.
In addition the liberals can no longer, quite misguidedly, call him rascist if he is himself so black!!!

Pedro Tam, London, UK

If IQ is a measure of human intellect, then it's hard to see why the West, with this intellectual superiority and superciliousness, is hurting with underachievement, illness and want. Why do American soldiers die in a war they should have won years ago? Why does President Bush, a man of mere conviction and thought, still lead his apparently high IQ-d people like sheep to the slaughter? Why do Western children, in their hundreds of thousands, end up on the dole or welfare? Why are these clever populations still susceptible to brain-free religious cult leaders? Why do parents in the West with ready access to information and resources, still prefer starch, fat and the dole? Can they read or write, anyway? Why do these superior and supercilious IQs achieve nothing but waists and human wastage? Jon (Northumberland) shows sloppy thought in spite of a British education. It’s wonderful to have great IQs but profoundly pitiful to be unable to put them to use, even in a supportive environment!

Edward Bee, Stockholm, Sweden

Facts are what they are. It is the political obsessives who will assert regardless of the facts or twist such facts that happen to be available to give them the 'right' spin that are the curse of modern life. James Watson is innocent and entitled to his opinion - though he may of course be wrong. But it is a fact that Men are Men and Women are Women; they look at life differently; and similarly Europeans and Africans have completely different cultures and histories. Some people can posture all they want and claim that these groups are exactly the same, but experience says no. Time for reality to take precedence over juvenile politics.

James, Norwich, UK

D Case , If you are going on UK exam results Indian descent do better than native students but Bangladeshi, Pakistani decent do worse. I think this is due more to to cultural differences than genetics (as I presume South Asians have similar genetic makup but very different cultures). Also East Asians (Chinese, Japenese etc) top IQ test but this rarely makes the newspaper headlines or discussion boards as it doesn't fit in the agenda for white supremists or colonial sympathisers.

Raymond, Liverpool, UK

One black grandparent means a mixed race grandparent. I think he or his parents would have noticed.

fg, uk,

His view is borne out by exam results here in the UK. This is just another example of political correctness gone even madder than it is already. We cannot chose what facts science come up with on the basis of those facts being inconvenient.

Although those from Africa may not be as smart, on average, as us, they are, on average, far better athletes with more stamina. This is about statistics not race, get on with it and stop being so stupid.

D Case, Newquay,

Jon,
DNA analysis carries surprises for all of us. A year ago I was tested for evidence of a genetic element which might identify me as suffering from a very serious condition. One marker was being of remote Russian descent; I told the consultant that I was Irish with no other ancestry. She laughed and said that a surpising number of her patients( 'Pure middle England') turned out to have a remote Russian ancestor.

Dectora, London, UK/ex Ireland

In response to Mr Lazzari's line that Watson just made "a throwaway comment about the average intellect of an inhabitant of the continent of Africa" - There should be no throwaway comments about all the people of Africa, to make such a comment is unbelievable and very ignorant.

Intelligence is in many ways a social construct, determined by the quality of parenting engagement, food, the social ideology around one and yes, genes too. We as Westerners are obsessed with this reified concept of intelligence.

European citizens should be more careful before showing any more contempt for a continent thats been ravaged by European colonialism and unregulated capitalism. Enough with the generalizations, we are all individuals, and we all originally came from Africa at the end of the last ice age anyway.

Samuel Waumsley, Cape Town,

Isn't this a fancy way of calling Watson a slang term for negro? Besides, it may well be that genes are not directly responsible for 'intelligence'. It could be a function of RNA regulation of genes. This would better explaiin why you have two brothers, say Albert and Fred Einstein, with almost identical genes but vastly different intellectual capability.

Scott, Richmond, Virginia

“This level is what you would expect in someone who had a great-grandparent who was African,” said Kari Stefansson of deCODE Genetics

All sounds JUST a bit to convenient to me. Take a sample, then switch it in the lab. Very hard to disprove.

I could have almost predicted it.

Either its him tryng to be 'forgiven for past comments' and hes in on the 'revelation' or the PC stazia are trying to make him look a hypocrite.

I seriously doubt this man has a great grandparent that
was African, just take a look of him on google images. Very fair skinned, pointy features and light eyes. You don't need to be a genticist to work that one out.

Jon, Northumberland, UK

The title of this article is just plain ridiculous. James Watson made a throwaway comment about the average intellect of an inhabitant of the continent of Africa, I wasn't aware he'd ever proclaimed himself to be a perfect specimen of the aryan race..

Shaun Lazzari, Nottingham, UK

So he wasn't a bad, bad, very, very bad racist when he explained what, in fact, everybody knows, namely that mean IQs of Sub-Saharan Africans are low:-

http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/misology_in_america_part_1/

Guessedworker, Lewes, England