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Senior scientists have offered to meet Roman Catholic bishops and MPs to explain the need for legislation to allow experiments on embryos that are part-human and part-animal.
Colin Blakemore, a former head of the Medical Research Council (MRC), has invited Catholic church leaders who staged an Easter attack on the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill to an “open-minded discussion” with the research community and patient groups.
In a letter to The Times today, Professor Blakemore says that while he does not wish to question the right of Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor and other senior bishops to speak out on ethical issues, their criticisms are based on misconceptions.
“The Bill is not about creating monsters or mocking the sanctity of human life,” he writes. “Indeed, it will reduce the number of human eggs and embryos used in the production of stem cells for research.
“Scientists should not challenge the spiritual authority of religious leaders, but they are entitled to question the factual evidence on which moral pronouncements are based.”
Professor Blakemore says he would also be happy to arrange for scientists to brief MPs who want a better understanding of the issues before they decide how to vote.
The invitation came after a coalition of medical charities and patient groups wrote to every MP asking them to support the legislation when it is debated in the Commons in May.
The letter, organised by the Association of Medical Research Charities (AMRC) and the Genetic Interest Group, was signed by the chief executives of some of Britain’s leading charities, including Cancer Research UK, Breakthrough Breast Cancer and the British Heart Foundation.
“The Bill will allow new avenues of scientific inquiry to be pursued which could greatly increase our understanding of serious medical conditions affecting millions of people throughout the UK, and ultimately lead to new treatments,” it said.
Human-animal embryos, which are described as human admixed embryos by the Bill, have medical promise because they can be used to create stem cells that are genetically 99.9 per cent identical to patients with conditions such as motor neuron disease, Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s.
These can be used as powerful laboratory models for studying these disorders and developing new treatments without the need for human eggs that are in short supply.
However, Catholic bishops criticised the Government for refusing to allow Labour MPs a free vote. In Scotland, Cardinal Keith O’Brien used his Easter sermon to brand the Bill a “monstrous attack on human rights, human dignity and human life” which would allow experiments of “Frankenstein proportion”.
Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, the spiritual leader of more than four million Catholics in England and Wales, urged Catholic MPs to oppose the legislation, and added his voice to calls for a free vote. “I think Catholics in politics have to act according to their Catholic convictions, so have other Christians, so have other politicians,” he told Sky News yesterday. “There are Catholics who feel very strongly about this matter and I am glad that they do. Certainly, there are some aspects of this Bill on which I believe there ought to be a free vote.”
Three Catholic Cabinet ministers — Ruth Kelly, the Transport Secretary, Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, and Paul Murphy, the Wales Secretary — are reportedly considering resignation if forced to back the Bill.
Alan Johnson, the Health Secretary, said nobody would be forced to support the Bill against their conscience: “There will not be a Cabinet split, but there will be an accommodation for those who have a particular sensitivity around this, including those whose sensitivity relates to the faith.”
No 10 played down reports that “accommodation” meant that Gordon Brown would allow MPs and even ministers the option of voting against the Bill, saying that no final decisions would be taken until nearer the vote.
Mr Brown is privately encouraging scientists to challenge the Catholic Church’s interpretation, and Downing Street insiders say the debate has only just begun. “So far we’ve only heard from one side,” one said.
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Lee Harrison: "I love the arrogant assumption that faith and ignorance are somehow opposed rather than, as is more usually the case, 'blood brothers'."
Faith is defined as "Assent to Divinely revealed Truth", ie. God reveals/proves himself to the individual. That beats the pants off science as science isn't capable of proof, nor mathematics which is based on unprovable assumptions. Read up Karl Popper, foremost science philosopher, if you are unsure of that point. Also consider the implications of "The Matrix": a problem of subjectivity that is no obstacle to an almighty God.
The only people who have true knowledge and are not ignorant, are religious believers. The agnostic position is a classic position of ignorance.
And ignore the OED's bogus definition of faith: "Belief without knowledge", which clearly makes religious belief look to be irrational. It was invented by modern philosophers and has no basis in the etymology of the word "Faith"
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK
Bishop Dominic Stockford, second comment in the thread said this:
"Our opposition is borne from faith, not from ignorance. "
That is one of the funniest things I've ever heard - I love the arrogant assumption that faith and ignorance are somehow opposed rather than, as is more usually the case, 'blood brothers'.
Lee Harrison, Adelaide, Australia
As Christians, you're entitled to your opinion.
As a member of the aetheist majority, I'm entitled not to care what it is.
Peter, Oxford, UK
I do not agree with the Roman Catholic Church on the wrong teaching they give about salvation - however, I do agree with them (as do many others) that this bill is wrong.
Our opposition is borne from faith, not from ignorance. Because of our Christian faith we believe that there are limits beyond which man should not go, and that those limits have been set by God. It has nothing at all to do with our levels of knowledge or understanding of science.
Those who throw the accusation 'ignorant' at us show firstly that they do not understand or know us at all, and are merely abusing us. Secondly, they demonstrate that their knowledge and understanding of the basis of the true Christian faith is sadly lacking.
Scientists (in general) will always seek to push the boundaries, making claims that 'the end will justify the means'. Such a claim has been made for years, without the benefits they have claimed would appear actually accruing.
Bishop Dominic Stockford FCE-EC
Bishop Dominic, Teddington, Middlesex,
I feel sorry for those of you who think you have to be Roman Catholic in order to be against creating human beings, or, in this case, human/animal hybrids and then killing them for the purposes of science. Just as a human embryo is already a human being according to basic reproductive science, such a human/animal hybrid embryo is already an existing human/animal hybrid organism. One can be a complete atheist and still staunchly oppose what researchers are attempting to do here. Those of you who think the Catholic Church is interfering, please pick up a biology textbook!
Brian , Broomall, USA/PA
This is just another example of the 'morals' that the religious believe have been handed down by their particular god. As usual they haven't even investigated the facts before seeing an opportunity to try and enforce their own rather distorted view of reality. Let them stay in the dark ages, their morals then were pretty reprehensible but at least they were in charge. They really haven't got over that they do not speak for or control the majority.
Acleron, Epsom, UK
Any one who believes in the virgin birth and a god that listens to individuals pleading requests is not going to understand or recognise the benifits of modern science. Untill they recognise the fact that there is no god the human race is always going to suffer at the hands of thes "we know best" indiciduals
mike gee, bournemouth, uk
As someone who regularly visits a Roman Catholic dominated country (the Philippines) and has seen at first hand the effect that their ill informed, backward and cruel control has on maintaining a unsustainablle birthrate and ensuring abiding poverty for most of it's people no-one should seriously listen to anything they say on such matters. The RC church are as wrong in their firm determination that only they know THE TRUTH as any fundamentalist Muslim! Religion should be an entirely personal matter and every Government should distance itself from religious interference and ensure it takes decisions based only on the interests of it's people based upon proven, rather than assumed facts.
As for Mr Lorriman's statement that he "knows God exists" and as as we can only say we dont know, he claims the point has been won, this is transparent nonesense. As we all know it is impossible to prove a negative, but I find much more logic in rational analysis than faith or myth.
David House, Wisbech,
Why does the Government invest so much money into sixth formers visiting Auschwitz? To teach them about how the end does not justify the means? To inspire a belief in the value of a single human life? Or to show them that human beings never learn?
.Human-animal embryos. Human life created for experimentation.
How history will judge us.
Kevin Organ, Brmingham,
Mr Lorriman says "we know that God exists". In that case why doesnot someone ask God direct for his view rather than risk a misunderstanding via the innumerable religions, sects, individuals etc that clam to speak on God's behalf. Incidentally I await with interest Mr Lorriman's book with the proofs of God's existance; he will have solved one of the greatest conundrums of all times.
Andrew Palmer, Bristol, UK
Since the Church of Rome does not have a great track record on facts, eg. the turin shroud and similar myths, it would probably be best if they keep quiet. alan
alan frankcom, solihull, UK
How come seemily intelligent people are led by the nose by these Cardinals and RC church. Religion and myths are used for control people whether it is by mullahs, Talibans or Cardinals. Gordon Brown should sack his ministers if they vote against the bill as their plea of conscience vote is an euphemism for carrying out the dictact by the robed men. Shame on Cameron and Clegg for not standing up to their MPs. This is 2008 AD and NOT 2008BC!
Gerry, SAouthampton,
Paul, Toronto:"Religion in general and the Roman Catholic church in particular, have been based on ignorance. "
This is rubbish being put about by Dawkins and his buddies.
The definition of 'faith' is "assent to divinely revealed truth", ie. God reveals/proves himself and so we know with certainty. The reason the religious persevere despite the rationalistic propaganda of the irreligious is because God's existence is engraved on our souls. For example it is untrue to say that there is no evidence of God's existence (my uncle was a nuclear physicist), or that the Old Testament condones rape. These are anti-religious spins: either untrue or distorted.
Since we know that God exists, whereas you can only say that you don't know whether he exists, we insist that a human embryo is likely to have an eternal soul, and so cannot be used for experimentation without presumption. Killing it could be unjust killing of the innocent.
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK
Labour are right to whip what is a flagship policy in my view. If Labour MPs are not happy then they should abstain and retain their credibility that way. Cameron plays politics as does Clegg with free votes. There is a clear case for supporting this bill and they should do so. You can make a moral case for any form of legislation and you could argue, if you wanted, that everything is a matter of conscience for some, dependent on their beliefs. Labour are on the right side of the argument, have bent to accomodate those who nay have a moral issue with aspects of the bill, and MP's should now get behind the Govt. Otherwise, they can face everyone with Parkinsons Disease and other diseases and tell them why they should die without hope!
Craig, Genrothes,
Religion in general and the Roman Catholic church in particular, have been based on ignorance.
By keeping your 'flock' ignorant there is a greater chance and opportunity to have them 'faithfully' follow.
Once people 'understand' the world around them, history, science, etc, they begin to challenge church doctrine and leadership.
So it should not be surprising for a church leader to make an 'ignorant' comment - after all, the faithful followers will not bother to dig deeper and realise the comments are completely without merit.
The pity is that people have to pussyfoot around those comments for fear of upsetting all those angelic followers rather than calling it out like it is.
Absolute and complete, ignorant stupidity.
Paul, Toronto, Canada
The Catholic Church has no say in the running of Britain. We fought wars to ensure that. It seems people seem to forget that in this evolution killing 21st century we now live in.
And people who believe in sky pixies should also have no say in what cures and help the sick can get in the real, rational, world.
If these Catholics feel that strongly then any cures and treatments got from such research can be refused by them if they get ill. Let them pray.
The rest of us though would like the chance for ourselves and our loved ones to benefit from such possible life saving research.
Dave B, Stoke, UK
Typical of people to talk about what they do not understand. Frankenstein? Who has ever suggested that the embryos are even going to be brought to term? It will be grown for about 14 days and will only look at early development. Secondly, all animal genome will have been removed and replaced with human DNA. All that is happening is nuclear insertion of human DNA into an empty and essentially generic cell. Furthermore, I should point out that women in the far east are being dosed with hormones to make them hyper-ovulate, with severe side effects, to try to accomodate the number of eggs needed for embryological research. Clearly the Catholic Church prefer human exploitation rather than facing the unfamiliar. Let the researchers conduct the proper experiments under controlled and safe conditions.
Tom, Nottingham, UK
What has been accomplished via embryonic stem cell research? Well, it's been shown that they don't differentiate reliably, producing tissue other than desired at the implantation site - that should be enough to give one pause. However, real cures have already been accomplished using patients' own stem cells, thus requiring no outrageously expensive research projects. I think the scientific community wants its candy, at the expense of the tax-paying citizen. Playing on the fears of the suffering and on the sympathies of those unaware of the real results of far more cost-effective adult stem cell research is, to put it mildly, reprehensible. The bill in question should be discarded and money put to the kind of stem cell research that is producing results.
Todd, Houston, TX
Why are no senior churchmen/women speaking out in favour of the bill? The silence is deafening. As a Christian myself and also a scientist, although not involved in this area, I see the strong moral case in favour of developing these techniques. Sure, there are things to be said on both sides, but the image of the church being firmly anti-science does nothing to advance its credibility in the public mind. And sure... a free vote... we need a parliament where MPs are more than ciphers... in this and in much else.
Eric Albone, Bristol,
What about the Roman Catholic Church's three line whip on the use of the condom, especially in Africa, where safe sex will help in the fight against HIV/Aids. Will the church hold up its hand and say death by HIV/Aids is preferable to sex with a condom.
Anthony J, Tredegar, Gwent
This is a distraction from the core Catholic objection: which is experimentation with human embryos. The hybrid business is distasteful, but the real problem is that human embryos should not be the subject of experiments.
Greg Lorriman, Leatherhead, UK
If the Catholic Church had had its way, we would still believe the sun and all the planets rotated round the earth. Galileo was almost burned at the stake for his heretical scientific views and is an excellent example of the obscurantist character of the Catholic Church, who also were champions of the Crusades and the Inquisition. They are still against contraception, condoms and divorce. Most Catholics have moved on but those hide-bound prelates still keep the medieval flag flying.
Joannah Yacoub, London,
As usual organised religion is doing its best to keep us in the dark ages.
Alan, Bath, UK
George in Hove, the Catholic Church's criticism of the government may be a case of the pot calling the kettle black, but that in itself does not excuse the New Labour National Socialists from holding a free vote. What they are afraid of is acknowledging is that there is secular opposition to this bill as well.
Paul, Coventry,
Will these scientists also explain the provision in the bill for Lesbians to be able to have birth certificates for children without mentioning any father and the attempts to make abortion even easier? I cannot believe that scientists will oppose a free vote and insist on political control by Labour Party whips.
George, Bolton, England
Well if Kelly, Browne and Murphy were to resign that would be an added bonus!
Dick, London,
It's a bit rich, a member of the Roman heirarchy demanding a free vote from the Labour Party. I don't think that if the Labour party asked for it, the Catholic Church would allow its members to choose for themselves in a matter of conscience; in fact, they would demand obdience in much the same way as the Labour Party is demanding it. Religion, like left wing politics, is all about control........
George Wood, Hove, UK